Control the fate of the lower control arm

[LWB250]

Gerry, make sure to ask them specifically to check inventory for the right side in both USA warehouses, *and* Germany. Too many times they only look at USA and if they see at least 1, they don't bother checking Germany.

Sometimes there is inventory at dealers within USA (not at warehouses) but often dealers are unwilling to release it, unless it's something they want to get rid of. Any time they report single-digit quantities in USA, you then need to ask the secondary question, "are these in MBUSA warehouses, or at dealers?".

Gotta know how to work the system.

Both true statements.

My dealer parts people know to check Paragon for both US and Germany stock as well as dealer stock. On occasion, such as for an alternator voltage regulator for the .034 and .036 cars, they found some at a dealer who was willing to give one up. There were still a few in Germany, too, but if they can find stuff on this side of the pond they go there first.

Dan

 

[gerryvz]

Today I scored the very last late-model W124 right-side lower control arm in MB stock in the US and Germany. I have had THREE dealerships check stock -- there are NONE available. I've also been told by my local stealer's parts department the following:

HELLO,
124-330-34-07 showing 4 in NJ warehouse,
124-330-35-07 listed as 'FINAL STOCK, NO LONGER AVAILABLE, HOWEVER MB OF ARLINGTON SHOWING OVER STOCK (this is the only one that they had, and I snagged it)
COMMBLOCKED, SYSTEM WILL REJECT ORDER FYI


As of yesterday, there were FOUR left-side W124 front LCAs at the MB warehouse in Robbinsville, New Jersey (now there are THREE, as I scored one of them).

The manufacture date on these LCAs is showing last month (May, 2020) and they are TRW units, made in SLOVENIA.

Still, it's a bit scary seeing words like "FINAL STOCK, NLA, and COMMBLOCKED"

It was an 80-mile round-trip drive to go to MB of Arlington, but worth it to get the last unit. Given that they were produced as recently as last month, I think there may be a chance that they will be available again in the future ..... but this could also be all she wrote for these LCAs. So, if you don't have a set, I recommend that you score a set while you can (and perhaps if this right-side unit becomes avaialble again).

 

[gerryvz]

Also, seeing as rare/NLA MB parts are going for huge dollars these days via forum members .... I will sell the set of new front and right late-124 lower control arms for EUR 5,000. This includes the now-NLA unit depicted above.

 

[Jlaa]

Today I scored the very last late-model W124 right-side lower control arm in MB stock in the US and Germany. I have had THREE dealerships check stock -- there are NONE available. I've also been told by my local stealer's parts department the following:

HELLO,
124-330-34-07 showing 4 in NJ warehouse,
124-330-35-07 listed as 'FINAL STOCK, NO LONGER AVAILABLE, HOWEVER MB OF ARLINGTON SHOWING OVER STOCK (this is the only one that they had, and I snagged it)
COMMBLOCKED, SYSTEM WILL REJECT ORDER FYI


As of yesterday, there were FOUR left-side W124 front LCAs at the MB warehouse in Robbinsville, New Jersey (now there are THREE, as I scored one of them).

The manufacture date on these LCAs is showing last month (May, 2020) and they are TRW units, made in SLOVENIA.

Still, it's a bit scary seeing words like "FINAL STOCK, NLA, and COMMBLOCKED"

It was an 80-mile round-trip drive to go to MB of Arlington, but worth it to get the last unit. Given that they were produced as recently as last month, I think there may be a chance that they will be available again in the future ..... but this could also be all she wrote for these LCAs. So, if you don't have a set, I recommend that you score a set while you can (and perhaps if this right-side unit becomes avaialble again).

View attachment 106591 View attachment 106592 View attachment 106593 View attachment 106594 View attachment 106595 View attachment 106596

Nice score! Mine is 2018 vintage, also Slovenia.

 

[gerryvz]

My other front lower control arm for late-model W124s came in on Monday. This is the LCA that is easily available -- there were three as of last week in the Robbinsville, NJ warehouse when I ordered this one late last week.

As you can see, it is 2018 production, TRW and made in Slovenia. Looks like the same production batch as the @Jlaa’s.

I paid ~$180 for it at MB Annapolis.

Transverse Control Arm - 1977-1997 Mercedes-Benz (124-330-34-07) | Get Mercedes Parts

1977-1997 Mercedes-Benz Transverse Control Arm 124-330-34-07

www.getmercedesparts.com

 

[gerryvz]

Interestingly, the 124 330 35 07 LCA was indicated on MB's Classic Parts web site LAST WEEK as "available." As of today, this has been changed to NLA.

I hope it becomes available again.



Looking at the other LCA, 124 330 34 07, it is still marked as being available. Look at that price !!!!

 

[gsxr]

Looking at the other LCA, 124 330 34 07, it is still marked as being available. Look at that price !!!!

All four of the late LCA's have been silly priced in Europe for years. Only the #34 / #35 been freakishly low priced in USA - don't know why.

The Sportline late LCA's are still available if anyone needs late LCA's... #36 / #37. But the cost is double in USA.

 

[Trae]

Do you think we can sell them for EUR 5,000 per set? I have three sets in their boxes!

 

[gerryvz]

Do you think we can sell them for EUR 5,000 per set? I have three sets in their boxes!

I've had a couple of bites already, since I posted the complete set. None of mine have ever come in boxes.

 

[gerryvz]

Just FYI, and to doubly confirm - both of the "regular" late front lower LCAs continue to be marked as NLA officially by MB. Even the RevParts sites have been updated on this.

This NLA status is for these part numbers:

124-330-34-07 <-- NLA​

124-330-35-07 <-- NLA​

Both of the Sportline front LCAs for later cars ARE STILL AVAILABLE from MB, and are really the only option of good, known quality for later owners or folks with larger brakes or wheels. Sportline LCA part numbers are:

124-330-36-07 <-- Still available, May 2023​

124-330-37-07 <-- NLA, May 2023​

Moderator edit: Availability updated as noted above.

 

[jftu105]

Well, the driver side lower control arm ball joint is loose, giving out some pops sound when I make turns. Lift up the tire, and indeed, it has some play when I shake it vertically.

The boot was not torn. It is a 1995 E320 with only 128000 miles. I cannot simply replace the boot as before but the entire control arm. Went to FCP and it was about $120 tax included and free shipping. Driver side is substantially cheaper than the passenger side on FCP. I wonder why but I am not complaining. Just received it. It is a TRW or The Risk Warned by Dave. Made in ...... Marlaysia. At least not China!!!

Came in with a big box and plentiful cushion by FCP. Good packing job.

Move the ball joint around, it is not very tight, unlike the new tie-rods I have. No looseness is more important than to have tightness. It will wear anyway if it is too tight and become not as tight.

Mechanically, other than precision, the quality of the lower control arm rests on the safety and longevity. Assuming no defects, so it won't break prematurely, that ball joint may wear out sooner than an OEM or Mercedes original. It is basically the quality of the material of the ball joint. Is it hardened properly to be wear resistant? Time will tell.

I will be happy to get five years out of it.

This will be the first time I change the entire lower control arm. I am weary about removing the 22mm bolts and how to keep the alignment when putting it back. My breaker bar will need some serious extension tube to give me the torque. Not looking forward to lying on the ground and pushing hard.

jftu105

 

[kwontumspeed]

The 22mm bolts, if those are the LCA to frame (can’t quite remember), those are not your biggest challenge. Scribe the offset washer to keep alignment in check but plan on getting it aligned properly anyways. The BJ bolt is your challenge. If you don’t have an impact it’s not easy to get to even with a cheater. I posted the experience with mine, rudamentary without pics but you may glean something out of it. Good luck!

 

[jftu105]

Thank you for the advice. I am familiar with the ball joint. This lower control arm has a permanent ball point, not those replaceable ones with the newer design. I did rebooting many times in the past and can handle it without issues. Never tried the entire lower control arm. 22mm bolts must be tight, hopefully not too tight for me. I read a write up with pictures on Pelican parts so I know how to do it in general.

Here is the link to it.

Mercedes-Benz W124 Front Wishbone Replacement | 1986-1995 E-Class | Pelican Parts DIY Maintenance Article

Tighten up the feel of your suspension with new wishbones.

www.pelicanparts.com

jftu105

 

[gsxr]

Well, the driver side lower control arm ball joint is loose, giving out some pops sound when I make turns. Lift up the tire, and indeed, it has some play when I shake it vertically.

Yikes! Was this the original MB ball joint that failed?

 

[jftu105]

I believe so. Interestingly, when I bought this car out of Baltimore about 5 years ago, I risked my life for it by riding a night Grayhound bus from NC. It had a broken sway bar bracket. then. This is the first major repair since my initial restoration.

 

[jftu105]

Got the worn control arm replaced today with the TRW from FCP. The job is not as hard as I thought. The 22 mm bolts were fairly easy to remove. Marked them clearly with nail polish and the alignment was preserved. The coil spring compressor I have (same design as MB's) worked well but difficult to use.

However, TRW IS NOT to be trusted. See the attached pictures. First, I noticed that the rubber boot was bloated but empty. Press it down, the top ring came off. I bought several MB original ball joint rubber boots from FCP and they, interestingly, were made by TRW. Took off the bad rubber boot from the new TRW control arm, and shockingly, there is almost no great in the new ball joint (see attached images). It is also missing a rubber seal (see images). There was zero grease on the inside surface of the bad rubber boot. I threw away the bad rubber boot and applied extra Mobil 1 synthesis grease to the ball joint. I then put in the new MB (but made by TRW) boot. It is so much better.

If you wonder why there is a new MB rubber boot on the worn MB control arm, it was because I rebooted it when I first thought it was torn. Last wee, I took the ball joint apart and decided to put in a new boot. I ended up replacing the entire arm as reported here.

The Risk Warned (TRW) by Dave is real. Dave is right again.

Well, the good news is that the popping sound is gone. Before I test drove it, I shook the tire horizontally and vertically. There is no play horizontally, but vertically, there is still a small play, much smaller than before though.

I guess that the TRW new ball joint is not as tight as it should be. And TRW does not use their own high quality rubber boots. Very disappointing.

Hoppefully, I can get 5 years out of it.

jftu105

 

[Seangbadee]

Got the worn control arm replaced today with the TRW from FCP. The job is not as hard as I thought. The 22 mm bolts were fairly easy to remove. Marked them clearly with nail polish and the alignment was preserved. The coil spring compressor I have (same design as MBs) worked well but difficult to use.

However, TRW IS NOT to be trusted. See the attached pictures. First, I noticed that the rubber boot was bloated but empty. Press it down, the top ring came off. I bought several MB original ball joint rubber boots from FCP and they, interestingly, were made by TRW. Took off the bad rubber boot from the new TRW control arm, and shockingly, there is almost no great in the new ball joint (see attached images). It is also missing a rubber seal (see images). There was zero grease on the inside surface of the bad rubber boot. I threw away the bad rubber boot and applied extra Mobil 1 synthesis grease to the ball joint. I then put in the new MB (but made by TRW) boot. It is so much better.

If you wonder why there is a new MB rubber boot on the worn MB control arm, it was because I rebooted it when I first thought it was torn. Last wee, I took the ball joint apart and decided to put in a new boot. I ended up replacing the entire arm as reported here.

The Risk Warned (TRW) by Dave is real. Dave is right again.

Well, the good news is that the popping sound is gone. Before I test drave it, I shook the tire horizontally and vertically. There is no play horizontally, but vertically, there is still a small play, much smaller than before though.

I guess that the TRW new ball joint is not as tight as it should be. And TRW does not use their own high quality rubber boots. Very disappointing.

Hoppefully, I can get 5 years out of it.

jftu105


View attachment 162608View attachment 162609

If you are thinking of keeping the car for a long time, it’s better to use the original MB Sportline control arms.
124-330-36-07
124-330-37-07
There are 3 or 4 pairs left in the US.
I got a pair recently, and even though they are a bit stiff, I have the piece of mind knowing that they are original.
Remember to replace the 22mm nuts for the eccentric bolts (4 total).

 

[Seangbadee]

If you are thinking of keeping the car for a long time, it’s better to use the original MB Sportline control arms.
124-330-36-07
124-330-37-07
There are 3 or 4 pairs left in the US.
I got a pair recently, and even though they are a bit stiff, I have the piece of mind knowing that they are original.
Remember to replace the 22mm nuts for the eccentric bolts (4 total).

The document below shows the updated torque specs for the eccentric nuts, to prevent knocking noise from the lower control arms.

 

[jftu105]

Some concluding remarks on the alignment issues.

The alignment is really not that complicated with the lower control arm. Mark the original setting before taking off the off-set bolt will help to start with a roughly right alignment when the new control arm is installed.

The following direction references are related to the driver side lower control arm. They would be reversed for the passenger side.

The basic relationship is this. By turning the off-set bolt counter-clockwise, the control arm is pushed outward, making the camber angle more positive, in which the lower portion of the tire is more outward than the top portion (think of wheel chairs).

If after installing the new control arm, you notice the car is turning to the right and the steering wheel is rotated counterc-lockwise (to the left), it may indicate that the camber angle is too negative, in which the lower portion of the tire is pulled too much inward. Relatively, the tie-rod will be too much outward, cause the tire to turn right. To keep the tire straight, the steering wheel will turn left (counter-clockwise) when you go straight.

Do 5 to 10 degrees each time, both bolts and test drive.

Anyway, after some adjustment, my steering wheel is right on and the car goes straight. I am not too kin in paying out $100 to some technicians who though 0.1 degree camber angle error caused one of my cars to extremely turning right. It turned out it was a bad tire (conality). Switched the bad tire to the other side, the car then turn to the other side.

jftu105

 

[gsxr]

As an FYI, and somewhat related: If you have to replace a tie rod end (and are confident the LCA eccentrics are pretty close to spec), you can adjust the toe reasonably well via trial and error (LOTS of trial and error!), and a tape measure.

Measure from the front/center of the tires, to the same tread position on the rear/center of the tires. This isn't easy as you can't quite get to the tire center, but you can get close. With the car in the air and front suspension fully extended, the ROUGH measurement is 1/4"-3/8" toe OUT. Yes, I know this doesn't make sense. The FINE measurement is made with the car on the ground, and you will not be able to get the tape measure to tire center - just get it as high as you can. On the ground at normal ride height, the ROUGH measurement is about 1/8" toe IN. Repeat as needed. The critical measurement is on the ground.

Once that is dialed in, next you have to make equal adjustments left/right to get the steering wheel centered when driving straight on a flat road. Lots more trial & error here. A half-turn of the tie rod adjusting tubes results in about 1" of change at the steering wheel rim. Use 1/4 turn or less for fine adjustments.

Why bother with the above? Because you may or may not be able to get a dealer alignment when you want one. A couple years ago I had to wait 3-4 months as the dealer was booked solid, thanks to staffing shortages (yay, COVID). You don't want to drive around for weeks or months with the alignment hosed, it can destroy tires.

 

[Jlaa]

As an FYI, and somewhat related: If you have to replace a tie rod end (and are confident the LCA eccentrics are pretty close to spec), you can adjust the toe reasonably well via trial and error (LOTS of trial and error!), and a tape measure.

Why bother with the above? Because you may or may not be able to get a dealer alignment when you want one.

To be fair, my last alignment at the professional shop Custom Alignment - Writeup of Experience Here (that's all they do - alignments. Custom ones ... lotta race car types go here) - was first done with the laser Hunter machine followed by a bunch of trial and error to get toe juuuuust right.

 

[dionphaneuf]

I was following along but got a bit confused - it sounds like you replaced the ball joint w TRW but swapped the boot to a better one, even tho the TRW ball joint quality wasn't 'awesome'. Am I missing anything? Any on road difference noticeable at this point?

 

[jftu105]

Here is the story.

First, I noticed the faint popping sound. I raised the car and check on the boot condition of the lower control. It appeared that it was torn. I ordered many sets of MB ball joint boot and intended to replace the boot and add grease to see if it solves the problem. Unfortunately, once I took the ball joint off, the boot was fine but the ball joint appeared to be loose. I still went ahead to regrease and reboot. Put everything back, but the popping sound got progressively worse.

I checked again and noticed that the vertical play was a lot worse. I decided to order a lower control arm. FCP offers a TRW at $110. I decided to buy it. After I got it, I was not impressed with the quality, in particular the boot and grease. I rebooted it and pack more grease.

Put it in and it works as the popping sound is gone. There still is slight vertical play but no sound when turns or hits a speed bump.

Hopefully all good from here for a few years. FCP offers life time warranty but I never took advantage of it. For this lower control arm I will if it fails soon after.

jftu105

 

[jftu105]

I have a rountine to align toe-in and toe-out, in addition to the camber angle. Not merely trial-n-error. It is based on precision engineering, specifically fundamental mechanical accuracy in parallelism and the reversal principle. Too much details to get into.

The tires of all my cars are without uneven wears and they run straight on highway. Today, most tire shop technicians learn to use a computer system to do alignment but they likely have little knowledge regarding the steering mechanism. This is why the techician I used last time told me that my camber angle was 0.1 degree over the limit and he already exhausted the maximum adjustment of the offset bolt. He told me that the offset bolt was worn and he would replace it for $250 but needed to order the part, which would take a few days.

I did not believe that 0.1 degree camber error could cause such extreme steering to the right. I cannot believe that a technician of tire shops never suspected that it could be due to the tire. In fact, later I ran into another tire shop who made the same mistake.

My confidence with tire shops is not exactly high.

jftu105

 

[gsxr]

...This is why the techician I used last time told me that my camber angle was 0.1 degree over the limit and he already exhausted the maximum adjustment of the offset bolt. He told me that the offset bolt was worn and he would replace it for $250 but needed to order the part, which would take a few days.

If he told you that about a W124... he's wrong.

It's the W210 that has offset bolts with fixed adjustment for camber, instead of eccentric bolts (as on the 124) which can be rotated to adjust LCA position.

 

[jftu105]

The point is that the technician test drove the car and noticed the extreme steering to the right. He did all his adjustment and still steered badly to the right. His conclusion was that offset bolt was worn because the camber angle was 0.1 degree over the limit. It is a W124. Some people would have paid $250 to replace the offset bolt and the problem would still be there. The tire was bad (cone shape) even though it was nearly new at the time. I did not have any tire with such problem before; therefore, I did not suspect it and decided to use the tire shop to align the car. However, such problems should be fairly common for an alignment specialist at a tire shop. Since then, I decided to take things back to my own hands and I developed my alignment routine so that I don't have to rely on these so called "experts".

jftu105

 

[gsxr]

Understood. My point was, if the "technician" doesn't even know HOW to adjust camber on the car, I wouldn't trust the rest of his recommendations either! And yeah, if he thinks 0.1° will cause a hard pull, he's clueless. Good call bypassing the Expert Muppets.

 

[jftu105]

The TRW lower control arm probably is no good. I can hear some popping sound coming from the front driver side again. Not very loud as before but it is there. Rolling down the window, I actually do not hear it as distinctively but with the window closed, the pop can rattle through the car body and I hear it more clearly. It is like my body in the morning when you stretch and twist, you hear some pops from your joints.

I exercised the life time warranty of FCP and get a different one, hoping the quality is better. Hate to do the job twice.

The way FCP's life time warranty works is that you have to place an order of the same part. After the part is shipped, you then file for warranty claim. I never claimed before despite purchased many parts from them. Will see how the process goes.

As the part failed within one month, I called FCP and they sent me a return shipping label. Therefore, the return part is no longer an issue. Just wait for the new control arm to arrive.

jftu105

 

[jftu105]

The failure of ball joints is a unstable process. Once it starts, it gets bad really quickly. With my old control arm, after I first heard some popping sound, it became alarmingly loud within two weeks. With this TRW arm, it was slightly loose to begin with. After installation, I can detect some vertical play with the tire in the air. I started to hear popping sound after less than 3 weeks. Merely a week after the first popping sound, it is getting louder and louder. Now, I can hear it when going over a bump making a turn, or backing out.

The material used by TRW must be quite soft, not properly case hardened. I hope not. Otherwise, I would be replacing it for third time in a short time. If the second one is bad, I will give up on TRW.

jftu105

 

[gsxr]

jftu105, your new TRW is clicking/popping despite adding grease before installing, correct? So the extra grease didn't save it?

 

[jftu105]

As I reported, the ball joint of the TRW arm was on the loose side when I received it. Usually, a new ball joint is quite tight. When you try to turn it by hand, it requires some effort. The TRW was loose. I easily pushed it side to side without much force. The rubber boot was trash and nearly no grease was applied, per my previous reports. I was hoping that the grease and the MB genunine rubber boot I put in (Mobil 1 synthetic) can at least keep the ball joint in service for a few years. I did not expect it to last less than one month. This tells me that the QC (precision) was bad and the material was poor. My driving is modest as I do not push hard in starting, stopping, or turning.

When the new TRW arrives, I will check the tightness of the ball joint. If it is loose, I will just return it without installation. I will need to find a quality control arm. I won't be looking at any after-market ones. Enough lesson learned.

jftu105

 

[jftu105]

Received the new TRW control arm from FCP today. The ball joint is so tight that I cannot move it by my weak hands. Use a plastic mallet, I was able to hit it and see it move. Compared with the first one, this is night and day. QC needs to be better. The rubber boot is definitely the low quality one and it is now replaced with the genuine MB one. Hopefully, this solves the problem. This replacement part is under the FCP life time warranty and they alse paid for the return shipping for the first one which was bad. Will update the result once I put this in.

Compare the images of the first arm and the replacement arm (see image), the replacement apparently is at a higher quality.

Likely, one was made on Wednesday while the other one was on either Monday or Friday.

The lesson learned here is that if the ball joint is loose, easily movable by hand, return it without installation. The genuine MB boot was also bought from FCP for about $10 each. The replacement arm was packed a bit more grease in the ball joint, unlike the first one. I packed some extra grease when I put in the genuine MB boot. The genuine MB boot is a must!

jftu105

 

[jftu105]

OK. Put the new TRW control arm in. The process was smooth without much setbacks as it is the second time in three weeks. The three-week "new" TRW control arm was removed from the car and I checked the looseness of the ball joint. Wow, it is so loose that I can move it with my pinky. It is even more loose than the 28 years old original arm that it replaced. Only took three weeks to be this bad. Remove the MB boot I put in last time and the synthesic grease is there in proper amount. It is still fresh without any containmination. It points to poor material hardness and poor precision of the lemon TRW arm.

With the new very tight TRW, I even had to use a pipe wrench to turn the ball joint stem so that the notch faces the right direction. Putting in the new arm was not too hard. The work is also easier if the anti-roll bar is released at the inner clamp as well. Basically, it is better to completely release the anti-roll bar so that it is not in the way when the new arm is put in place.

The coil spring compression tool, the MB design, is a must. It made the job safe and much easier.

The car is nice and tight without vertical or horizontal plays. Last time, after putting in the "lemon" arm, I still detected the vertical play when I shook the tire vertically. This time, everything is nice and tight.

Driving with a tight W124 is a wonderful experience. Hopefully, this one will last.

jftu105

 

[Gatorblue92]

I’m looking at doing this job again as well with substandard TRW LCAs which are 3 years old and only have about 5000 miles on them. Pretty pathetic.

 

[jftu105]

I’m looking at doing this job again as well with substandard TRW LCAs which are 3 years old and only have about 5000 miles on them. Pretty pathetic.

Make sure that you sub out the terrible rubber boot which came with the TRW arm. Pack some extra high quality grease when you change the boot. The two TRW arms I got from FCP, one's ball joint is loose while the other is extremely tight. There are many other options on eBay, such as Febi, Mevotech (?), etc., but I don't see them any better than TRW.

jftu105

 

[Gatorblue92]

Make sure that you sub out the terrible rubber boot which came with the TRW arm. Pack some extra high quality grease when you change the boot. The two TRW arms I got from FCP, ones ball joint is loose while the other is extremely tight. There are many other options on eBay, such as Febi, Mevotech (?), etc., but I dont see them any better than TRW.

jftu105

Yeah this is so frustrating. I’ll have to see if I got these from FCP or if I went with Rock Auto or Auhohaus AZ when I get some time to do them again. I’ve got a lot of home projects this year and we are taking a 3 week trip to Utah this summer so I might end up parking the car under a cover in the garage for a few months

 

[jftu105]

Received confirmation from FCP that they have received the returned TRW control. I got a refund but in store credit. I guess I don.t truely get my money back with their life time warranty. You just give them more and more money, pretty good business model if you ask me.

 

[gerryvz]

It probably saves them some hassle with regard to paperwork, and also they don't have to let go of precious cash. Win-win ... for them. Maybe not so much for the customer.

 

[gsxr]

Received confirmation from FCP that they have received the returned TRW control. I got a refund but in store credit. I guess I don.t truely get my money back with their life time warranty. You just give them more and more money, pretty good business model if you ask me.

So you have to return the failed item first, before ordering the replacement, to not end up having paid twice with a store credit?

 

[dreaming.haze]

FCP adjusted their warranty policy last fall. I've been using them for the past 4-5 years for any parts that I plan to replace for my daily driver (fluids / filters / suspension components / brake parts / etc)

Flow as it sits now:
Buy Original Part from FCP For $XX
Use part until it fails
Buy Replacement part from FCP For $XY (Price could be higher or lower compared to initial $XX)
Replace part on car
Ship replacement part back to FCP, Get refund of Replacement Part cost of $XY (If price has increased / decreased, there can be a delta between $XX and $XY that does not have a full 1:1 in price to original purchase)
Refund is now primarily store credit.

I haven't adjusted my buying habits due to already having most maintenance items covered by their lifetime warranty, but I have noticed a general 5-20% increase in prices over the past ~8 months or so. This follows current inflation paths, but looks like they are padding their price a bit knowing people are using the lifetime warranty.

 

[Seangbadee]

FCP adjusted their warranty policy last fall. Ive been using them for the past 4-5 years for any parts that I plan to replace for my daily driver (fluids / filters / suspension components / brake parts / etc)

Flow as it sits now:
Buy Original Part from FCP For $XX
Use part until it fails
Buy Replacement part from FCP For $XY (Price could be higher or lower compared to initial $XX)
Replace part on car
Ship replacement part back to FCP, Get refund of Replacement Part cost of $XY (If price has increased / decreased, there can be a delta between $XX and $XY that does not have a full 1:1 in price to original purchase)
Refund is now primarily store credit.

I havent adjusted my buying habits due to already having most maintenance items covered by their lifetime warranty, but I have noticed a general 5-20% increase in prices over the past ~8 months or so. This follows current inflation paths, but looks like they are padding their price a bit knowing people are using the lifetime warranty.

What I did was to return the failed part (via order number) and get the store credit, after which I purchased the replacement (warrantied) part.

 

[jftu105]

This car with the new very tight TRW control arm gave out some little pops yesterday. I don't believe the new ball joint of the new TRW control arm can fail this soon. I checked other settings. The popping sound seems to come from the top. I decided to retighten the top nut of the strut. I was able to turn about 70 degrees. I did not use a torque wrench, probably should. I just tightened it hard with a breaker bar, as hard as I can with my weak arms.

No popping sound anymore. I went ahead to re-tighten the top strut nuts of all my E320's. I still have the original lower MB control arm and the ball joint is not any loose than the first TRW arm. I will keep it.

Could it be that I just did a unnecessary repair? And reported it as if I was brilliant? May be. Who knows? However, the lesson is to check the strut setting also if you have vertical play. It could be a cheap repair than the costly but unnecessary replacement with an after-market control arm at less quality.

jftu105

 

[TerryA]

@jftu105, I had a similar problem on my long gone 86-300E. I had replaced the front struts with Koni Red adjustable shocks. When reassembling I torqued the lower bolts holding the LCA to the hub to the specifications. I believe it was 85ft/lbs but it’s been a long time. Anyway bottom line I had a knocking sound on the passenger side. I ended up retightening the bolts above the specified torque and no more knocking sound.

I think I had a false torque reading indicating that I hit the specified torque. In hindsight, I should have at least wire brushed the original bolts before reinstalling.

 

[gsxr]

That reminds me - the LCA bolts were originally spec'd for 120Nm torque, per FSM job 40-0322.

However, there was a TSB which increased the torque spec to 150Nm, due to "knocking noises":

 

[Seangbadee]

That reminds me - the LCA bolts were originally specd for 120Nm torque, per FSM job 40-0322.

However, there was a TSB which increased the torque spec to 150Nm, due to knocking noises:

View attachment 164261 View attachment 164263

Mine are tightened to 150Nm, and I do not have any knocking sounds.

 

[jftu105]

@jftu105, I had a similar problem on my long gone 86-300E. I had replaced the front struts with Koni Red adjustable shocks. When reassembling I torqued the lower bolts holding the LCA to the hub to the specifications. I believe it was 85ft/lbs but it’s been a long time. Anyway bottom line I had a knocking sound on the passenger side. I ended up retightening the bolts above the specified torque and no more knocking sound.

I think I had a false torque reading indicating that I hit the specified torque. In hindsight, I should have at least wire brushed the original bolts before reinstalling.

I used to be a torque wrench nut. I bought many high quality torque wrenches, mechanical and electronic, mostly made in USA and Germany, and I religiously tried to torque things according to the specs. I even designed a torque wrench calibration machine by converting a tennis stringer to ensure the click-type torque wrench provide correct torques. I have detailed handbooks on torquing. Of course, I also studied the theory and mechanism of click-type torque wrenches. The electronic type is only strain gage based, but the mechanical type is quite interesting with spring and ball to give out the click sound when the set torque is reached.

However, the torque and the tightening force are not always consistent because friction can change them big way. When I did the head gasket replacement, it was nerve breaking to do wet torquing and extra turn by angles. The head gasket job was a great success and I still have no oil leak after nearly five years.

Now, I am just lazy. I just tighten things as much as I can with breaker bars. Sometimes, I added an extention to tighten more. The only one I tighten to the spec is the lug bolt for wheels. I still have all my top quality torque wrenches. Need to get my acts together.

jftu105

 

[Seangbadee]

I used to be a torque wrench nut. I bought many high quality torque wrenches, mechanical and electronic, mostly made in USA and Germany, and I religiously tried to torque things according to the specs. I even designed a torque wrench calibration machine by converting a tennis stringer to ensure the click-type torque wrench provide correct torques. I have detailed handbooks on torquing. Of course, I also studied the theory and mechanism of click-type torque wrenches. The electronic type is only strain gage based, but the mechanical type is quite interesting with spring and ball to give out the click sound when the set torque is reached.

However, the torque and the tightening force are not always consistent because friction can change them big way. When I did the head gasket replacement, it was nerve breaking to do wet torquing and extra turn by angles. The head gasket job was a great success and I still have no oil leak after nearly five years.

Now, I am just lazy. I just tighten things as much as I can with breaker bars. Sometimes, I added an extention to tighten more. The only one I tighten to the spec is the lug bolt for wheels. I still have all my top quality torque wrenches. Need to get my acts together.

jftu105

The maintenance manuals, and even the excellent “How To” articles in this forum have outlined the specific torque values for tightening bolts and nuts.

 

[gsxr]

However, the torque and the tightening force are not always consistent because friction can change them big way. When I did the head gasket replacement, it was nerve breaking to do wet torquing and extra turn by angles. The head gasket job was a great success and I still have no oil leak after nearly five years.

These torque-to-yield bolts are a different animal than standard bolts. The rotation angles force the bolt to stretch (literally) and this provides an even clamping torque, more than a standard bolt torqued to a certain value. The FSM will typically show a specification for bolt length and if a bolt exceeds the max length, it cannot be reused.

The FSM is explicit about if oil is to be applied, and where, which eliminates friction concerns. If no lube is specified, the torque value is for clean, dry bolts/heads/washers/threads. A critical factor for head bolts is to make certain the bolt holes in the block are chased and perfectly clean before installing the head: a clean/dry bolt should spin all the way in with fingers - if not, fix the problem before installing the head.

 

[jftu105]

These torque-to-yield bolts are a different animal than standard bolts. The rotation angles force the bolt to stretch (literally) and this provides an even clamping torque, more than a standard bolt torqued to a certain value. The FSM will typically show a specification for bolt length and if a bolt exceeds the max length, it cannot be reused.

The FSM is explicit about if oil is to be applied, and where, which eliminates friction concerns. If no lube is specified, the torque value is for clean, dry bolts/heads/washers/threads. A critical factor for head bolts is to make certain the bolt holes in the block are chased and perfectly clean before installing the head: a clean/dry bolt should spin all the way in with fingers - if not, fix the problem before installing the head.

The relationship between torque and clamping force is a function of friction and the deformation of the bolt, as well as the contact stiffness between the nut and the bolt head with the surface to be clamped. In fact, the entire problem is a statically indeterminant or an over-constraint problem that merely force equations are not sufficient to solve for the forces. The bolt deformation can be elastic or plastic. Once it gets into plastic deformation, its length is permanent changed and its strength actually increases via strain hardening but its ability to handle fatigue loading is also compromised.

I have published treaties on this particular problem as well as its applications to bearings, fixtures, spindles, etc. Anybody interested in theoretical formulation is welcome to contact me. Of course, when it comes to do it via own hands, the equations help but not necessarily quite useful. However, one of the big three did thank me for the help to solve a million dollar problem for them related to the clamping force and torquing.

jftu105

 

[Jlaa]

I have been wondering what to do with the lower control arms I took off my car in 2016 @ 63K miles. The balljoints feel good, although I have not removed the rubber boots yet. I started by putting the wide end of the LCAs into the zzzzzzzz ultrasonic machine. I will let it sit there for 90 mins or so with dish-soap/water solution.

What do you think I should do after cleaning the wide end? Could I put the balljoint end into the soap/water solution or is that verboten? And, if it is verboten, I guess brake parts cleaner is the way to go on the narrow end of the control arms? Genuinely wondering what you guys think.



BTW - one more question --- below you see the photo of a spare set of LCAs on my shelf --- what is the function of the hole that the white plastic cap is covering?