Rear control arms/links: Buy OE or Lemfoerder?

[nehuge]

Moderator edit: Cleaved these posts off this thread discussing aftermarket front control arms.

The early LCA will not fit cars that need late LCA's (like your E420), unless you grind a few mm off the end for clearance to the brake disc & shield...

Tried to do a search but didn't really find anything. I'm looking at doing all the rear arms on my vehicle. camber, pull/torque, tie rod, push/thrust, control/spring arm.

Got the dealership on the horn and some of the prices are competitive between them and online, and other ones are not. If I go to let's say Pelican or Autohaus and see "Mercedes" Brand and then right under it "Lemfoerder OE" brand at a cheaper price, what really is the difference? Can I go Lemfoerder on everything? Or should I go Mercedes on everything, or are they one in the same and the Mercedes is just marked up?

 

[gsxr]

If I go to let's say Pelican or Autohaus and see "Mercedes" Brand and then right under it "Lemfoerder OE" brand at a cheaper price, what really is the difference? Can I go Lemfoerder on everything?

You can go Lemfoerder, they are still a good supplier, although most of their components have moved to lower-cost countries of origin (Turkey, Brazil, Spain, etc). Not much if anything will still be made in Germany.

Or should I go Mercedes on everything,

If it's in the budget, that would be preferred... but some items may be $$$. Last I heard the OE stuff was still made in Germany, however this could be old stock. I don't know if the current/fresh stuff will still be made in Germany or not.

or are they one in the same and the Mercedes is just marked up?

They are NOT the same, at least AFAIK they are not. Years ago the Lemforder was at least similar if not the same, even some Lemforder bushings had the MB Star logo and MB part numbers. I don't believe this is the case anymore. FCP has been slowly updating the COO on their website, but anything claimed to be German-made, don't get too excited until the parts arrive.


My $0.02... for an 036 subframe rebuild, I'd probably shell out for the OE/Genuine stuff, at least until someone can prove what the COO is for OE. For a pedestrian/plebian 124, I'd probably get Lemfoerder as I expect the cost could be half of OE?

 

[nehuge]

You can go Lemfoerder, they are still a good supplier, although most of their components have moved to lower-cost countries of origin (Turkey, Brazil, Spain, etc). Not much if anything will still be made in Germany.



If it's in the budget, that would be preferred... but some items may be $$$. Last I heard the OE stuff was still made in Germany, however this could be old stock. I don't know if the current/fresh stuff will still be made in Germany or not.




They are NOT the same, at least AFAIK they are not. Years ago the Lemforder was at least similar if not the same, even some Lemforder bushings had the MB Star logo and MB part numbers. I don't believe this is the case anymore. FCP has been slowly updating the COO on their website, but anything claimed to be German-made, don't get too excited until the parts arrive.


My $0.02... for an 036 subframe rebuild, I'd probably shell out for the OE/Genuine stuff, at least until someone can prove what the COO is for OE. For a pedestrian/plebian 124, I'd probably get Lemfoerder as I expect the cost could be half of OE?

Okay, I can see if the online sources "chat" or sales representatives can provide the COO.

Also, are all of these different arms ones that can just replaced individually as they go bad, or is it a "better do these other ones while you're in there" kind of concept as to cut down on repeat labor? I'm tempted to do them all at once so I truly know what the car would feel like when it was new, (it has 150k on it now) but at the same time I'm worried about future NLA so that makes me think to change them one at a time.

So for grins I called two of my trusted shops that I frequent here in Oregon, another two trusted shops that I used to frequent back in Arizona and asked them this same question. Most of them were saying it's the lower control arms that are really the only ones that are replaced often for their customers, and another one of the other arms but I didn't ever ask which.
Half of the shops said it is something you'd want to have other arms done while in there, and then others said "even in Arizona which is hard on rubber, some original 250k cars with original arms only needed one here or there, including subframe bushings".
Reason I ask that too is just google "w124 subframe bushings replacement etc" and there's lot of opinions. Makes me wonder if those people are replacing them just to keep it fresh, or whether these things do on average truly wear out at 150k, or if these people live in places where they romp off road and on terrible pot-holed streets and have higher mileages?

Basically mine is creaking in the back like a maniac, and after two years at three month intervals trying to delay this expense, getting under there with silicone spray to shut it up, the spray is no longer doing the trick!

 

[gsxr]

The 5 links definitely last longer, in general... but at 30 years old, new ones aren't a bad idea.

The subframe bushings are almost always shot. In particular the rear/large bushings are almost always totally collapsed. Many shops probably don't know how to spot this, but it's an easy visual inspection.

If the 5 links all check out ok you could skip them for now, and start with the 4 subframe bushings.

Where exactly are you spraying to quiet down the creak?

 

[Jlaa]

The 5 links definitely last longer, in general... but at 30 years old, new ones aren't a bad idea.

The subframe bushings are almost always shot. In particular the rear/large bushings are almost always totally collapsed. Many shops probably don't know how to spot this, but it's an easy visual inspection.

If the 5 links all check out ok you could skip them for now, and start with the 4 subframe bushings.

Where exactly are you spraying to quiet down the creak?

Really! Does a temperate climate prove to be more gentle on the rear subframe bushings? I remember replacing the forward and aft rear subframe bushings in @RicardoD ’s car at >200K miles and TBH the original bushings looked pretty darn good….

 

[gsxr]

The rear bushings collapse so the subframe is pulled down (by the coil springs)against the stop plate, when there's supposed to be an air gap at the bottom.

Really Bad rear bushing:



Failing, but not as bad as the first picture:



New bushing:

 

[nehuge]

Oh crap. Guess mine's in the "failing" mode. I remember on here somewhere seeing a pdf on it without taking the subframe and diff down and out. Can't remember where.

What should I expect a shop to charge for subframe bushing labor? There are two in the front also, right, for a total of 4? They can all be done without dropping everything?

 

[gsxr]

Oh crap. Guess mine's in the "failing" mode. I remember on here somewhere seeing a pdf on it without taking the subframe and diff down and out. Can't remember where.

This PDF?

https://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/W124/subframe_bushing_install.pdf

What should I expect a shop to charge for subframe bushing labor?

I'm not sure, but guessing 4-8 hours? Maybe more if they're not familiar with the job. Plus alignment afterwards.

There are two in the front also, right, for a total of 4?

Correct.

They can all be done without dropping everything?

Yes - no need to remove the subframe from the car. Lower the subframe and replace 1 bushing at a time.

DIY writeup here:

HOW TO: Replace Rear Subframe Bushings with Miller Tools | "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles

GSXR EDIT: Attached factory manual procedure, job 35-040, as PDF file - see bottom of post. Both factory tools referenced in the FSM are NLA. The Klann/Gedore tool, KL-0356 may have been available through 2019-2020, but is absent from their 2022-2023 catalogs, and may be NLA now. I finally...

www.500eboard.co

 

[emerydc8]

Right—There are a total of four subframe mounts. A few members documented their experiences here. I had around 250,000 miles on both my cars and IIRC the rears were not too bad. The Miller tools help. The hardest part of the job is removing the smaller front mounts, but that is well-documented here too.

Regarding the rear links, there is a vertical link about six inches long close to the inside lip of the rim. IIRC it is for the rear sway bar. I broke the right link on both cars over the years. As I was making a sharp right turn, I heard a pop as the link snapped. I guess it really was the “weak link.” IIRC the bushings on the link were in good shape. Replacing it took about ten minutes and the dealer part was inexpensive. The car was still drivable but when loading the sway bar the broken link would hit the inside lip of the rim and make clicking noises. It’s not a bad idea to have this link in spares. The part number is the same for both sides.

 

[gerryvz]

These days I would not go with Lemforder UNLESS you can guarantee the COO is Germany/Europe. The only web site that tells you this info up front is FCP Yurro, though I have never had a chat with other sites to ask them. I have a full set of spare rear arms (all 10 of them) and 90% of them are Lemforder, made in Germany, but I got them about 10 years ago. I don't trust Lemf these days unless it is definitively made in Germany.

As Reagan said, "Trust but verify."

 

[nehuge]

Thanks guys again for the help. The gap on my other car's subframe bushings is even more. Bah.

 

[emerydc8]

Just a follow-up on the pictures and part number for the left and right rear sway bar links. The black link is the new part. The gray link is the old part. Incredibly, the old rubber bushings are still in good shape. They are still pliable. Both links are part 124 326 01 16.

 

[nehuge]

This PDF?

https://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/W124/subframe_bushing_install.pdf

I'm not sure, but guessing 4-8 hours? Maybe more if they're not familiar with the job. Plus alignment afterwards.




Correct.



Yes - no need to remove the subframe from the car. Lower the subframe and replace 1 bushing at a time.

DIY writeup here:

HOW TO: Replace Rear Subframe Bushings with Miller Tools | "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles

GSXR EDIT: Attached factory manual procedure, job 35-040, as PDF file - see bottom of post. Both factory tools referenced in the FSM are NLA. The Klann/Gedore tool, KL-0356 may have been available through 2019-2020, but is absent from their 2022-2023 catalogs, and may be NLA now. I finally...

www.500eboard.co

One of the shops seemed to think dropping subframe and doing all the bushings at once was faster...?

 

[gsxr]

One of the shops seemed to think dropping subframe and doing all the bushings at once was faster...?

It's more work to completely remove the subframe. With the subframe out, all the correct special tools are required, not optional. With the subframe in the car you can use the weight of the chassis to aid R&R, this isn't possible with the subframe removed.

Has the shop ever done this job before on a 124? Or are they speculating?

 

[nehuge]

It's more work to completely remove the subframe. With the subframe out, all the correct special tools are required, not optional. With the subframe in the car you can use the weight of the chassis to aid R&R, this isn't possible with the subframe removed.

Has the shop ever done this job before on a 124? Or are they speculating?

Well if they overspeculate or if they haven't, I won't go there lol

 

[gsxr]

Check out the receipt on this car for sale... a shop in IL charged 8.5 hours labor plus $300 for the two bushing kits, although the invoice doesn't specify part numbers, and you also don't know if they fully removed the subframe or not. Insert your local labor rate, which could easily be twice as much as the IL shop if you live in a big city like SF/Seattle/LA/NY.

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[rayhennig]

Not much if anything will still be made in Germany.

We've just fitted a Lemfoerder set to the 300CE. Made in Turkey.

Only about 5K Kms ago so nothing to report.

RayH