Exploring the MB STAR C3 (SDS)

[Jlaa]

I now have a Dell 630 with an SSD sourced from a local diagnostic guy (who trades on eBay in the UK and specialises in BMWs) which appears to work correctly - launching DAS then runs HHT-Win and I can connect to the car (R129 SL500 built March 1998 i.e. a late Gen 2 car).

Also one last thing ---- my Dell630/China-C4 setup worked with my w124 but was always kind of brittle .... meaning EZL values would kinda be slow or not really show up at all, depending on phase of moon / time of day / whatever. Sometimes the thing would connect and sometimes it wouldn't connect. I think @dionphaneuf got a taste of the brittleness a year ago when we were troubleshooting his car (ultimately I think the issue was trans overload protection switch).

Anyways recently I ditched the Dell 630 and used a newly refurbished Thinkpad T40 from Carobdtool with their SW build using the same China-C4. The brittleness, in my limited testing, seems to have gone away. I do not know if this is attributable to the different SW build or the improved HW.

 

[gsxr]

Do you mean that HHT-WIN lists all possible modules that are seeable by HHT-WIN, including those which are seeable by HHT-WIN but not installed in the car, but not necessarily all modules that are available for scanning in the car by SDS?

Yes - please note this varies by chassis AND by model year! I am mostly referring to OBD-1 cars... all 124 chassis, 140 chassis with HFM or LH injection, R129 prior to ME injection. This also includes the early 210 chassis, possibly "pre-facelift" 210? For my 1997 E420, everything is done via HHT-Win through the 38-pin port, nothing is in DAS. That particular car has ME 1.0 injection.

It may be that I am not reading correctly. On my 2002 w210, which is different from earlier w210s, HHT-Win will not list all modules that the car has. I have to go into DAS, which lists a lot more modules than goin into HHT-Win does. See here for what DAS shows: ... But if I go into HHT-Win directly, I get this:

Yup, things get weird during the late 90's and early 2000's. You can end up with a mix of both DAS and HHT-Win, as seen with your late (last model year) W210.

For what it is worth, I think a SW build set up for a C3 might not exactly work with a C4 unless various .ini files are changed --- I'm not very clear on this.

This is possible! I am not certain. What I meant was that one C3 MUX can be swapped out for a different C3 MUX, as long as it isn't blacklisted. Some older software versions may not play nice with a newer MUX but it's possible that later software may work with older MUX. I've never researched this much as it wasn't applicable to my systems.

 

[R129 UK]

Also one last thing ---- my Dell630/China-C4 setup worked with my w124 but was always kind of brittle .... meaning EZL values would kinda be slow or not really show up at all, depending on phase of moon / time of day / whatever. Sometimes the thing would connect and sometimes it wouldn't connect. I think @dionphaneuf got a taste of the brittleness a year ago when we were troubleshooting his car (ultimately I think the issue was trans overload protection switch).

Anyways recently I ditched the Dell 630 and used a newly refurbished Thinkpad T40 from Carobdtool with their SW build using the same China-C4. The brittleness, in my limited testing, seems to have gone away. I do not know if this is attributable to the different SW build or the improved HW.

I have only used it with live engine data for a moment after returning home last night with the kit but overall, the performance seems very good and I have used it on my W164 too. I think I have max RAM in the Dell and with the SSD it boots insanely quickly for XP and the hardware it has so I have no complaints with speed or reliability at the moment.

 

[R129 UK]

This is possible! I am not certain. What I meant was that one C3 MUX can be swapped out for a different C3 MUX, as long as it isn't blacklisted. Some older software versions may not play nice with a newer MUX but it's possible that later software may work with older MUX. I've never researched this much as it wasn't applicable to my systems.

I have quite an old version of the software mainly due to the ages of the cars I am currently interested in. Arguably the Mux I have now postdates the software and it "seems" to be running ok but I need to be sure I am communicating with what I should be in terms of modules.

 

[R129 UK]

1) Ok, I guess I need to know which R129 modules I should be able to read i.e. are present @Alphasud40 can you help me here?

2) Yes, I think it is a C4 plus DOIP. Example here:

https://www.tradekorea.com/product/...CONNECT-MUX-C5-For-Mercedes-Benz-C5-DoIP.html

3) Thanks, I will try this.

 

[gsxr]

Assuming your car is a 1998 SL500 (remember, it helps to mention the year/model any time you are not discussing a 500E)... for example, you will not be able to access LH1, LH2, EZ1, EZ2, or EPF/TPM/ISC (those are for older models with different injection / ignition systems).

You'll need to figure out what modules are present on your specific vehicle.

 

[R129 UK]

Assuming your car is a 1998 SL500 (remember, it helps to mention the year/model any time you are not discussing a 500E)... for example, you will not be able to access LH1, LH2, EZ1, EZ2, or EPF/TPM/ISC (those are for older models with different injection / ignition systems).

You'll need to figure out what modules are present on your specific vehicle.

Interestingly (or not perhaps) my HHT-Win is seeing 6 modules which I am almost certain is the same as my iCarsoft CR Pro also sees so maybe i am getting all there is.

Yes, after some research I was aware the engine modules were different control systems so that is correct but would expect to see DM and perhaps GM based on what I have read here today. I will retire to some R129 specific resources and see what others there know. Thanks.

 

[gsxr]

DM (Diagnostic Module) is only present on OBD-1 cars, I believe?

BM/GM is used on early R129 with LH-SFI. I think late R129 still have this but I'm not certain.

 

[R129 UK]

My cable is not fully connected pin to pin or in the sequence found earlier and I will need a special cable too:



It went A-1, B-2 until pin 14.

 

[LWB250]

Assuming your car is a 1998 SL500 (remember, it helps to mention the year/model any time you are not discussing a 500E)... for example, you will not be able to access LH1, LH2, EZ1, EZ2, or EPF/TPM/ISC (those are for older models with different injection / ignition systems).

You'll need to figure out what modules are present on your specific vehicle.

But he will be able to access the hydraulic top system along with all of the electronics that go with it.

Dan

 

[R129 UK]

But he will be able to access the hydraulic top system along with all of the electronics that go with it.

Dan

The RV module is the roof which I can indeed see, I also appear to have a cheap cheap China clone cable without a full compliment of pin connections so I'm hopeful when I get the correct "E500" cable I will be able to see more than the table in post #205 above.

 

[LWB250]

The RV module is the roof which I can indeed see, I also appear to have a cheap cheap China clone cable without a full compliment of pin connections so I'm hopeful when I get the correct "E500" cable I will be able to see more than the table in post #205 above.

True. This was critical for me when I had an R129, as the roof controller got wonky on me, and the only possible way to properly diagnose and troubleshoot was with HHT-WIN. That and they're not cheap or easy to find decent rebuilt ones, so I wanted to be absolutely sure it was bad.

Dan

 

[R129 UK]

Not sure if this belongs here or another thread...

Does anyone know where to get Starfinder?

It doesn't appear on my XP SSD installation.

From what I've read it could be a useful resource.

Thanks!!

 

[R129 UK]

As a follow-up question, running XP how can I add “print to pdf” functionality to save HHT-Win reports or find where might the report be “stored” as per the Window in the background?

Thanks.

 

[mikeym]

i spoke with Seven at carobdtool on wechat and he said they don't sell the c4 multiplexer anymore. He recommended this on for HHTWIN.

Anybody heard of this "M6" model multiplexeer?

V2024.6 SSD SUPER MB PRO M6+ Full Version DoIP for Benz+ Lenovo T440P

Lots of customer encounter setting problem when using SUPER MB PRO M6+, so we recommend this bundling sale for those customer who want once get in hand then can use it directly. We will install and activate the SUPER MB PRO M6+ for you ready to use. What's more, this package offer saves you...

www.carobdtool.com

Is this what ya’ll are ordering? How much is it going for? The website says $679 but to contact “Seven” for a discount.

 

[Jlaa]

Is this what ya’ll are ordering? How much is it going for? The website says $679 but to contact “Seven” for a discount.

Yes, that (M6) is what forum members have been purchasing. Off the top of my head, I know @nocfn has an M6 package from them. When you contact Seven, you can get a discount.

 

[R129 UK]

I found the attached SD Connect manual while doing my research - seeing as people are now needing to move away from the older C3s it might be of some use / interest to others who haven't yet upgraded to newer multiplexers.

Despite the later multiplexers having wireless capability, I would still recommend not to enable WiFi on any device you are using.

I use a long ethernet cable when I am connecting in my garage for engine diagnosis playing and a short patch lead when I'm in the car and want to monitor the cluster or if I was doing real-time diagnostics while driving the car etc.

 

[R129 UK]

As a follow-up question, running XP how can I add “print to pdf” functionality to save HHT-Win reports or find where might the report be “stored” as per the Window in the background?View attachment 196115

Thanks.

I can report some success on adding a pdf printer.

As recommended, I didn't want to connect my Dell D630 to the internet to install any software etc. so I played around and tested a few downloads transferred to the Dell via a USB flash drive which were described as XP friendly.

I found that w2pdf works great - see attached report created today.

Downloads | Win2PDF

Download a free trial of Win2PDF, or stay current with our latest release. Downloads available for Desktops and Laptops, and Windows Servers.

www.win2pdf.com

 

[gsxr]

I got the full 34 pin e500 cable, lenovo laptop, hht/win software loaded and the sds 6 and it all works great

@nocfn - can you post a link to the vendor you purchased from earlier this year?

 

[nocfn]

Speak with "seven" on whatsapp or via email

WWW.carobdtool.com

you will want the full super mb pro m6 full version with software plus lenovo laptop you need to be darn sure you get the full cable connector for our e500


AND IF you cannot find it then our buddy @Jlaa may be able to help. My security protocalls will not let me into the site to verify.

 

[nocfn]

Speak with Seven and tell him you need the e500e setup and the separate full 34 cable

 

[gerryvz]

Just so everyone knows, the domain for the Chinese company that @nocfn and the @Jlaa have used (speak with “Seven” there via WhatsApp) has changed to:

www.chinacardiags.com

Seven gives discounts to 500Eboard members on their MB Star laptop and tablet setups. He is available in the evening US Eastern time.

 

[gsxr]

Link to the M6 with tablet:

Super MB Pro M6+ Pro Full Version With V2025.03 SSD Plus Panasonic

Super MB Pro M6+ Pro Full Version DoIP Benz With V2025.03 SSD Plus Panasonic FZ-G1 I5 3rd Generation Tablet 8G, Software All Acitvated Ready to Use, like xentry das epc wis DTS HHT-WIN SDmedia, Tablet Easy to Carry out and Stable for Working

www.chinacardiags.com

 

[gerryvz]

Link to the M6 with tablet:

Super MB Pro M6+ Pro Full Version With V2025.03 SSD Plus Panasonic

Super MB Pro M6+ Pro Full Version DoIP Benz With V2025.03 SSD Plus Panasonic FZ-G1 I5 3rd Generation Tablet 8G, Software All Acitvated Ready to Use, like xentry das epc wis DTS HHT-WIN SDmedia, Tablet Easy to Carry out and Stable for Working

www.chinacardiags.com

View attachment 203230

This is their "Mac Daddy" tablet-based product, that includes everything. I believe that @nocfn has this product but with a laptop, rather than a tablet. Seven will get you down closer to $700 on this product, with free shipping from Hong Kong, FYI.

And of course, using a tablet is always "sexier" than using a laptop (ask @jhodg5ck). Shipping takes about a week, 10 days max, after order. This package DOES include the 38-pin cable for this multiplexer (for E500E connectivity) as well as the HHT-Win software. It of course also works with newer cars via a regular OBD cable.

All cables used with this multiplexer are proprietary, and will NOT work with Star C3 or C4 systems.

The Chinese have come a long way in the past 10-12 years with these systems. They are MUCH more performant and less clunky than the first-generation systems, which ran Windows XP inside of a virtual machine running on .... you guessed it ... Windows XP. Later on they got the software running directly on Windows XP, no virtual machine needed. These newer systems are Windows 10. Probably why the @gsxr is not using one, because his technical comfort is Windows XP, and anything newer than Windows 8 is too advanced.

 

[LWB250]

I've heard complaints about being able to "invoke" HHT-WIN in later versions of the DAS systems. I'm wondering if anyone here has experienced this if they've got one of the later versions (mine is for 2013, but more than adequate for my needs.)

Dan

 

[gsxr]

I've heard complaints about being able to "invoke" HHT-WIN in later versions of the DAS systems. I'm wondering if anyone here has experienced this if they've got one of the later versions (mine is for 2013, but more than adequate for my needs.)

Dan

Dan, do you mean C3 / C4, or the newfangled M6?

But yes, there can be issues with some chassis and HHT-Win. IIRC the R129 was one of the problematic ones. DAS calls HHT-Win with some modifiers in the path to trigger a specific instance, or malarkey along those lines. There's a long thread on Ben's Whirled about this.

 

[LWB250]

Dan, do you mean C3 / C4, or the newfangled M6?

But yes, there can be issues with some chassis and HHT-Win. IIRC the R129 was one of the problematic ones. DAS calls HHT-Win with some modifiers in the path to trigger a specific instance, or malarkey along those lines. There's a long thread on Ben's Whirled about this.

Good question. I've followed that thread on BanzWhirled occasionally. I was thinking it was more an issue with the later software packages that the Asian/Chinese vendors were using, and that in some instances you had to run HHT-WIN separately from DAS. At least that was my recollection.

My concern is that the latest car I have (2008 ML550) only needs Xentry. As much as I enjoy my C4 and the old laptop that runs it, I've been concerned that the later versions, if you may, that are on these tablets either won't play nice with my C4 and/or HHT-WIN won't work.

I would like to buy one of the tablet versions, but I'm wondering as well if I can't just buy a refurb tablet online (they're all over the place at the same or lower prices than the HK guys) and pop a hard drive with an SDS image on it and connect it to my C4 MUX?

Dan

 

[gsxr]

Dan, I think @nocfn is the only one we know of who has purchased the M6 setup, but it worked fine with HHT-Win on the 500E. Note the new setup has a new M6 MUX, different cables, and comes with a laptop or tablet. None of the new stuff will work with the C4 MUX, cables, or software.

If you buy an M6 kit with SSD only, you should be able to install it in your own tablet.

Now, if you are trying to use an existing C4 MUX and cables, that's different. You'd have to buy an SSD with the SDS image and verify it has support for the C4 and HHT-Win, and is also supported for whatever laptop/tablet you plan to use. I'd contact Seven via WhatzApp and ask him.

 

[gerryvz]

The M6+ is proprietary and I believe incompatible with the C4. I do not believe taking an SSD for an M6+ laptop or tablet will just work seamlessly in a C4 laptop.

Agree that talking to Seven of Nine will help provide clarity. If you contact her after about 3PM Mountain time via WhatsApp you should get an immediate response.

I have a tablet M6+ system en route to me right now. I will report back here (possibly under a separate thread) when I get it. I am intending to replace my two older C3 systems (both of which work fine) with the latest gear.

Will probably sell my most recent C3, which Ingot about 5-6 years ago. It uses a Dell laptop. It has 2013 software, I believe.

 

[dreaming.haze]

Gerry, Curious to hear your testing notes / report on the M6+ unit once you have it in hands. I've been holding off on a C3 / C4 system for years now, and the M6+ looks to be a great device if it can handle the older HHT WIN emulation. Also looks like they've started to install BMW software (E-SYS) on the devices in tandem, so it could be a catch all for my current fleet of W124s + a daily driver F31 BMW.

 

[gerryvz]

Gerry, Curious to hear your testing notes / report on the M6+ unit once you have it in hands. I've been holding off on a C3 / C4 system for years now, and the M6+ looks to be a great device if it can handle the older HHT WIN emulation. Also looks like they've started to install BMW software (E-SYS) on the devices in tandem, so it could be a catch all for my current fleet of W124s + a daily driver F31 BMW.

You're going to be hard pressed to get a C4 system, and especially so the C3, because they are pretty far out of date now and have been superseded by updated systems. Though, if you can and do find one, get a C4. You can find them perhaps on eBay and such, but very few of the reputable Chinese sellers are selling them anymore.

The M6+ bundles available from certain Chinese sellers are definitely including the HHT-Win application. Member @nocfn has an M6+ with a laptop and I believe that HHT-Win is working just fine for him. When I take delivery of my M6+ system with tablet, I will start a new thread on it.

 

[gerryvz]

I'm attaching an excellent write-up on the Star C3 system, which also applies equally well to the C4, and even the software used with the M6+ systems. A great reference and overview to familiarize yourself with these systems and what various software modules do.

 

[gerryvz]

Not sure if this belongs here or another thread...

Does anyone know where to get Starfinder?

It doesn't appear on my XP SSD installation.

From what I've read it could be a useful resource.

Thanks!!

View attachment 196010

Star finder is not relevant to the 124 chassis, because the 124 is not included in it. The earliest chassis included in StarFinder are the R129 and W210 (and all chassis since).

 

[R129 UK]

Star finder is not relevant to the 124 chassis, because the 124 is not included in it. The earliest chassis included in StarFinder are the R129 and W210 (and all chassis since).

Thanks for the info Gerry, do you know of a source? It would still potentially be of interest to owners with newer MB vehicles.

 

[gsxr]

Star finder is not relevant to the 124 chassis, because the 124 is not included in it. The earliest chassis included in StarFinder are the R129 and W210 (and all chassis since).

The 124 has a "manual" Star Finder in the form of pixelated grayscale photos in the back of the ETM. Sample screenshot below.

 

[gerryvz]

The 124 has a "manual" Star Finder in the form of pixelated grayscale photos in the back of the ETM. Sample screenshot below.

View attachment 203982

That is true, but this is completely separate from the StarFinder app that is part of the computerized diagnostic systems.

For those wanting it, you can find & download what the @gsxr is referencing at the link here.

Just download the linked PDF doc and go to Page 201. The illustrations begin on Page 229.

 

[gerryvz]

Thanks for the info Gerry, do you know of a source? It would still potentially be of interest to owners with newer MB vehicles.

There are plenty of sources online where you can download the StarFinder app for free (along with various other combinations of the DAS/Xentry/HHT-Win/etc. diagnostic software -- all hacked).

Probably best just to order a complete software load from the Chinese -- try Seven at ChinaCarDiags.com and see how he can help you. You can buy the software pretty cheaply with no laptop/tablet/multiplexer. If that site doesn't work, try AliExpress.com or eBay.

 

[gerryvz]

Here are the complete set of four documents pertaining to the Chinese STAR C3 systems, from the Banzworld member “ricebubbles.” Back in 2012 he took an extreme amount of time tinkering with the STAR C3 system and authoring these documents.

Posting them here for future reference for those needing them.

Document 1. SDS What is it

Document 2. SDS Instructions For Connecting and Using

Document 3. SDS Software Installation Instructions

Document 4. SDS Transfer From External HDD to Internal HDD