FYI Exploring the Super MB Star M6+ Diagnostic System

[felipewdb]

@gerryvz has not actually tried to use his M6+ with his E500 so we don't know if he has a "good" system or not.

Oh, yes, I know, I meant through the hole process so far. I looking forward to know if he will succeed to connect to his E500.

I'm very tempted to send Seven a link to this thread but I will wait until we hear more from other people and their experiences.

It would be good. Maybe he could improve their process to deal with this kind of quality issue with their products and customer attention.

Thank you very much!

 

[gerryvz]

I have been out of the US for a while but am back. I apologize for not trying to connect the Star M6+ to my E500. I will try to get to this today / this evening. I think I have the time to do it. I will report back. If there is a problem, I will contact Seven directly and tell him that I want to get the problem solved with the adapter.

 

[R129 UK]

I have been out of the US for a while but am back. I apologize for not trying to connect the Star M6+ to my E500. I will try to get to this today / this evening. I think I have the time to do it. I will report back. If there is a problem, I will contact Seven directly and tell him that I want to get the problem solved with the adapter.

No apologies needed, it will be interesting to hear how you get on though.

 

[Unavita]

I guess this is what is changing everybody's perspective on the new systems.

 

[Jlaa]

I am perfectly happy with my CCD supplied C4 clone, CCD supplied Lenovo Thinkpad with software, and CCD supplied 38 pin cable, which connects just fine with my 1993 w124 and my 2002 w210. I most recently used it to troubleshoot @Russell R Coe ‘s 036. Call me Mr. Obsolete.

 

[gsxr]

I am perfectly happy with my CCD supplied C4 clone, CCD supplied Lenovo Thinkpad with software, and CCD supplied 38 pin cable, which connects just fine with my 1993 w124 and my 2002 w210. I most recently used it to troubleshoot @Russell R Coe ‘s 036. Call me Mr. Obsolete.

The big question is... if someone were to order this same hardware + software kit today, would it work... or not?

 

[Unavita]

Let's see what Gerry comes up with. If his unit has an issue or should it not work perfectly I am sure he will contact Seven and inform him of any issue. Many of us have had some kind of experience with quality control. Heck, just think of the differences between different year same model of MB's! I can only imagine that QC is exponetial in CCP. That is at least what I have seen in other industries.

@gerryvz

@gsxr

 

[bgalakazam]

Interested too. I am tempted to get this instead of roll the dice on a C4 for practically the same cost. (1995 OBDI 38pin R129).

 

[Unavita]

Back to square uno!

Seems I really need a diagnostic system rather than throwing parts at a problem. But does the SDS tell you if the ignition itself is in need of replacing?

I am still having an infrequent on off problem. Some thought it may be the CPS but with the car starting intermittently AND NOW running but quitting intermittently the finger is pointed at a possible ETA issue. I have already replaced the ETA once (one of the fastening bolts broke when the original owner swapped one out. I haven't fixed that so can a small air leak be the issue there now??) Even after i replaced he unit it would go into limp mode randomly. That makes me think my replacement was not very good at doing it's job.

NOW my cooling fans are running full time for some reason as well!

I was hoping on getting an older sds system. That has not been possible.

Ugg.

 

[gsxr]

The EZL has limited fault-recognition capability. So it cannot tell you if a cap or rotor is bad, or a coil is bad, etc.

The codes can help you pinpoint the root cause of going into limp mode.

I'm not sure what to recommend anymore for a functioning HHT-Win software + hardware kit.

 

[riethoven]

I recently had a CEL and needed to get my non functioning M6+ fixed because my state inspection on my W166.024 was overdue and I wanted to do a tranny fluid change and needed it for the ATF temperature readout. I had bought the M6+ from Seven of OBD Tools Master (that is what it said on the receipt) on September 27, 2023. It worked intermittently but worked enough that I was able to install a trailer hitch on my W211 CDI and program the SAM so the trailer lights would work.

I didn't know that you can't go online with it while using the Xentry because nothing worked after going online. This happened in early 2024 and I never got back to Seven. The EPC and ETM never worked. This month we looked up Seven and my wife (the IT person in the family) contacted Seven via WhatsApp. It took a few sessions, but they got everything working including the EPC and the ETM, but I still couldn't get it to connect to the W166. To fix things, Seven would go on the tablet with TeamViewer. My wife was able to watch him on when he was connected to the tablet and she saw that he updated licenses. He also did some configuring in Xentry so that everything would work as it should.

After a couple more go arounds with Seven and $30, he sent a new cable that goes from the MUX to the OBD Port and it connected to the W166 without an issue! I will say that it was frustrating that it didn't work as it should have right out of the box and if there was any warranty it had long since lapsed. Seven could have told me to go eat dirt, but through the diligence and IT experience of my spouse and good service from Seven, my M6+ is working as it should.

One thing that surprised me is that my OBD port only has 5 active terminals which are 4, 5, 6, 14 & 16. I did a pin out of the old MUX to OBD cable and 27 of the 44 terminals go to nowhere. My new cable doesn't have any male to female adapter. The MUX is male and the cable is female. The cable is completely different than the old one and the OBD plug doesn't have the red piece of plastic that slides to lock the cable in the port. The new one just plugs in.

 

[gsxr]

Thank you for the update, Doug!

 

[Jlaa]

I recently had a CEL and needed to get my non functioning M6+ fixed because my state inspection on my W166.024 was overdue and I wanted to do a tranny fluid change and needed it for the ATF temperature readout. I had bought the M6+ from Seven of OBD Tools Master (that is what it said on the receipt) on September 27, 2023. It worked intermittently but worked enough that I was able to install a trailer hitch on my W211 CDI and program the SAM so the trailer lights would work.

I didn't know that you can't go online with it while using the Xentry because nothing worked after going online. This happened in early 2024 and I never got back to Seven. The EPC and ETM never worked. This month we looked up Seven and my wife (the IT person in the family) contacted Seven via WhatsApp. It took a few sessions, but they got everything working including the EPC and the ETM, but I still couldn't get it to connect to the W166. To fix things, Seven would go on the tablet with TeamViewer. My wife was able to watch him on when he was connected to the tablet and she saw that he updated licenses. He also did some configuring in Xentry so that everything would work as it should.

After a couple more go arounds with Seven and $30, he sent a new cable that goes from the MUX to the OBD Port and it connected to the W166 without an issue! I will say that it was frustrating that it didn't work as it should have right out of the box and if there was any warranty it had long since lapsed. Seven could have told me to go eat dirt, but through the diligence and IT experience of my spouse and good service from Seven, my M6+ is working as it should.

One thing that surprised me is that my OBD port only has 5 active terminals which are 4, 5, 6, 14 & 16. I did a pin out of the old MUX to OBD cable and 27 of the 44 terminals go to nowhere. My new cable doesn't have any male to female adapter. The MUX is male and the cable is female. The cable is completely different than the old one and the OBD plug doesn't have the red piece of plastic that slides to lock the cable in the port. The new one just plugs in.

Its good to hear Seven is trying and making things right when he can. Thanks for relaying this bit of news.

 

[LWB250]

For what it's worth, I got a "Launch" brand scanner from my Amazon Vine program a good year or two ago, and I've rarely used my C3/4 systems since. (Note that I only have one car left in the fleet that uses the 38-pin diagnostic port.) I've found pretty much everything I need to know, even with unique systems and the maintenance functions like the ones used for calibration and bleeding brake on cars with SBC, for example. it can also print out results/reports and email them as well as showing links for each OBDII code if an error is reported.

Yes, I realize this won't work on a W124, but if you have a later model that uses the standard OBDII port like a W211 or later it's a functional equivalent for the most part for Xentry/SDS. I keep mine in my ML550 so it's always on hand. It's so much easier to use and I don't have to drag the laptop, MUX and cables out, which collectively takes a good 10-20 minutes. I can connect, read codes, run a health check, or access a module and be done in a matter of minutes.

Launch Scanner

 

[okiebenz]

I just ordered one of these M6 systems from Seven, so i will report what all happens when I receive it.

 

[gsxr]

I just ordered one of these M6 systems from Seven, so i will report what all happens when I receive it.

Hey, you finally posted here after 5 years, Kaleb! Here's a belated "welcome aboard"...

 

[gerryvz]

Hey, you finally posted here after 5 years, Kaleb! Here's a belated "welcome aboard"...

I wonder if @The Emperor had anything to do with that .... ?

 

[R129 UK]

I wonder if @The Emperor had anything to do with that .... ?

Did you manage to get around to trying your system on your 500E Gerry?

 

[mcmh6789]

I just received a super mb pro m6+ pre-installed on a lenovo t440p from CCD. I started Xentry Cars which started DAS. A Quick Test completed successfully on a 2000 C280 (W202) using the 38 pin connector. The car is one of the odd birds that has both 38 pin and obdii port.
However, when I clicked on a control unit (ETC) to see the faults, DAS screen showed:
HHT-WIN is not available on this system.

Should DAS be able to call/invoke HHT-WIN? In a teamviewer session, Seven's "answer" was to start hhtpkg software standalone.
Is that correct?

I'm happy to give a fuller (not so positive) review of this system if there is any interest (from a lowly c280 puke) but I'm trying to figure out what my next step is with CCD.

 

[okiebenz]

This is disappointing about HHT. I work on a lot of 210 cars that have some models using DAS and others HHT. I really hate using HHT stand alone and prefer it to launch the modules that use HHT from DAS. I was going to just order an updated DOIP C4 system due to this as I was not sure if this super star deal worked like that. I read an early post to this thread that indicated it did launch HHT from DAS so I went ahead and ordered it. Mine has not arrived yet but I’m not liking what I’m hearing about that. I did kind of want the super 6 so it would be somewhat future proof as I get newer cars in to work on.

 

[gsxr]

It is possible that DAS is not able to call HHT-Win directly, from within DAS. You may need to run HHT-Win separately, there should be an icon (shortcut) on the Windows desktop. Hopefully that will work.

 

[okiebenz]

Yes you should be able to run it separate, but I hate doing that. From what I have seen on MHH there is a patch that can be installed that will fix the issue, this was a few years go so not sure if it works on newer versions of Xentry/DAS of or with this M6 system. I may try it but I don’t want to screw it up. I wonder if it’s possible to clone the entire SSD to a backup on my desktop PC or an other SSD to use to restore the system in case something goes sideways.

 

[gsxr]

I wonder if it’s possible to clone the entire SSD to a backup on my desktop PC or an other SSD to use to restore the system in case something goes sideways.

You cannot clone the drive to a different SSD, unless you generate new license keys. It's part of the copy protection crap.

However, you MAY be able to use the built-in Windows backup function to create a backup image, to restore to the original SSD. In theory, this should work.

 

[mcmh6789]

Thanks for your replies. Pardon my english (too many years as a software engineer). Yes, once Seven figured out which of two poorly named icons on the desktop was the correct one for passenger vehicles, HHTWIN was startable from the desktop and completed a Short Test. I need to find some time today to work with it more to see what functions are there. As @okiebenz said, my expectation was DAS would launch HHTWIN, as necessary. There seems to be many more control units communicated with a DAS Quick Test vs an HHTWIN Short Test, though that may be subject to verification when I spend more time with both HHTWIN and DAS. Sounds like you would have to use DAS and HHTWIN separately to complete a full scan.

Interestingly, Seven pointed to 500eboard during our chat. Maybe 500eboard has some clout with CCD to come up with the patch @okiebenz mentioned. Someone with good knowledge of why that is a good "feature" may be able to take it up with them. Until then, I guess it is a caveat emptor. I think Seven has concluded that needing to run HHTWIN standalone is a feature, not a bug!

 

[gsxr]

Correct - I believe you do have to use DAS and HHTWIN separately to complete a full scan. As @okiebenz explained above, this is a nuisance and takes more time. It's a pity CCD does not apply the necessary patches to their cracked software to make it work properly.

For older models which ONLY use HHT-Win, i.e. almost all 1990's vintage, running HHT-Win as standalone really is a feature! Nothing can be done via DAS on those older cars, and not having to wait for DAS to launch and click through a dozen menus to launch HHT-Win is a big time savings. However the later cars with the hybrid OBD setup (38-pin plus OBD-2) use both, like your W202 and Kleb's late W210.

Cars with OBD-2 only will use either DAS only, or (for really new stuff) Xentry only.

 

[okiebenz]

In my experience using HHT stand alone on a 210, sometimes the modules are not always easily identifiable in HHT and it seems like you are never really sure which module you are going into. Sometimes in DAS I don’t want to run a quick test and just go directly to a specific module. With all the abbreviations in HHT it’s sometimes hard to tell where you are going.

 

[okiebenz]

Well I received a box today with the M6 and the cables. I assume the tablet with software will come in a different shipment.

 

[R129 UK]

Well I received a box today with the M6 and the cables. I assume the tablet with software will come in a different shipment.

Not in my experience.

Look at Gerry’s unboxing post - this is almost exactly what I received, I also got a basic printed quick start guide but everything else was exactly the same in terms of content and packaging.

Can you add a link to what product you ordered?

 

[okiebenz]

Super MB Pro M6+ Pro Full Version With V2025.03 SSD Plus Panasonic

Super MB Pro M6+ Pro Full Version DoIP Benz With V2025.03 SSD Plus Panasonic FZ-G1 I5 3rd Generation Tablet 8G, Software All Acitvated Ready to Use, like xentry das epc wis DTS HHT-WIN SDmedia, Tablet Easy to Carry out and Stable for Working

www.chinacardiags.com

All I got so far was the plastic case with the cables and MUX inside.

 

[okiebenz]

This is what Seven sent me when I bought it and I do believe the unit came from a US address:

"device usa ship 3-5 working days
software + laptop we ship from china 2-3 days to install it and 7-9 working days to you"

 

[mcmh6789]

My packaging mirrored Gerry's. All one box. Unfortunately with the wrong power cable for the laptop's charger. Three prongs in a circular pattern. Seems to match internet pictures of Chinese wall sockets.
I am working on a return with Seven right now. Before I leave the thread, I wanted to share some experiences which may smooth the way for others.

1. I followed the instruction book in configuring the network adapter exactly (book has an error between Fig 3 and 5 - 169.x.x.87 then shows .90). It failed miserably. Tx packet count increasing but no Rx. ARP table showed no learned IP stations. I was saving wifi for Teamviewer sessions. As a last resort, I tried wifi and got tx/rx counts and one 172.x.x.100 station. Interestingly, it uses DHCP to configure IP automatically. That is how I then started configuring the USB adapter instead of the static IP config described in the booklet.

2. After playing more with DAS vs HHTWIN, I decided to request a return. There are only 7 days from when you receive to initiate the return. I was a day or two over but I wasn't operational for several days until I bought the correct power cable.

There is actually a post from DarkHelmet on 500eboard - Reverse Engineering HHT-Win using ChatGPT. ChatGPT concluded:
"When you enter DAS and select a module in an older Mercedes (e.g., R129), if that module is not CAN-based, DAS launches HHT-WIN in a separate window."

IMHO, that is exactly how it should be and I'm fairly confident that is how the software engineers meant it to work. The idea of having to work with both DAS and HHTWIN separately is inconvenient, user unfriendly and (as @okiebenz pointed out) a letter salad of different abbreviations. ISC becomes KI (Kombiinstrument)???

DAS is obviously trying to call HHTWIN and fails with HHTWIN not on system. It doesn't tell you to go launch HHTWIN.

When I asked ChatGPT "Can CAN-based control units be communicated with by way of the 38 pin connector on earlier mercedes cars?"
Answer:
As Mercedes-Benz started incorporating CAN Bus into their vehicles, the 38-pin connector was also adapted to handle CAN communication. However, the ability to interface with CAN-based control units via the 38-pin connector was typically limited in terms of full diagnostics and coding.

So it seems the 38 pin connector can access the CAN bus. Would Mercedes expect techs working on these odd beasts to be switching from 38 pin to obdii and from HHTWIN to DAS for a single diagnosis? Would it make more sense to let the tech at least use one, more intelligent, better GUI interface (DAS) and switch cable connections, if it came to that.

In addition, HHTWIN only asks for model number (202, in my case) so it goes at the car dumb. DAS asks more questions and seems to come up with a much fuller control unit list with correct specifications. For example, apparently not knowing it was communicating with a 2000 W202 with DAS3, HHTWIN came up with RCL/DAS1 and RCL/DAS2. One of which I tried and it reported IFZ does not answer. Whiskey tango...

@okiebenz when you get your laptop - scan, baby, scan.

 

[okiebenz]

When I get mine, I am going to immediately try it on my 99 E300, then one of my W211s or 164, then I have a 400E out back I can try to scan as well. The more I hear about it, I suspect I will end up returning it so I need to determine whats what within a day or 2 it seems. I will say in the box of hardware there is not a separate adaptor box or anything for the 38 pin cable like some had to deal with. If I do end up returning it, I will likely order a complete C4 DOIP setup with the tablet. It is just odd that the initial posts on this thread seem to indicate that HHT hands off automatically from DAS. I wonder what changed. Also, perhaps something has changed/improved with it since they now appear to be sending 2 separate shipments. Maybe not. Anyway, stay tuned.

 

[gsxr]

As Mercedes-Benz started incorporating CAN Bus into their vehicles, the 38-pin connector was also adapted to handle CAN communication. However, the ability to interface with CAN-based control units via the 38-pin connector was typically limited in terms of full diagnostics and coding.

So it seems the 38 pin connector can access the CAN bus. Would Mercedes expect techs working on these odd beasts to be switching from 38 pin to obdii and from HHTWIN to DAS for a single diagnosis? Would it make more sense to let the tech at least use one, more intelligent, better GUI interface (DAS) and switch cable connections, if it came to that.

This depends on the chassis. Early cars with 38-pin connectors (all LH-SFI, circa 1990-1995) DO NOT have the CAN bus available at the 38-pin connector. THe CAN bus on these cars ONLY links between individual modules. Communication from SDS MUX is only through a single discrete wire, the "K-line", which connects to a different pin for each module. That's why the MUX is required, it changes the wire/pin for each module.

Later cars which have both OBD-2 ports and also 38-pin may be different, but AFAIK none of them have the CAN wire pair connected to the 38-pin diagnostic port.

In addition, HHTWIN only asks for model number (202, in my case) so it goes at the car dumb. DAS asks more questions and seems to come up with a much fuller control unit list with correct specifications. For example, apparently not knowing it was communicating with a 2000 W202 with DAS3, HHTWIN came up with RCL/DAS1 and RCL/DAS2. One of which I tried and it reported IFZ does not answer. Whiskey tango...

HHT-Win will display all possible modules in the menu. It does not know which are present on a specific car or not. If not present, the module "won't answer". OBD-2 communication is needed, I believe, for DAS to determine if a module is present or not. (??)

 

[gsxr]

If I do end up returning it, I will likely order a complete C4 DOIP setup with the tablet. It is just odd that the initial posts on this thread seem to indicate that HHT hands off automatically from DAS. I wonder what changed. Also, perhaps something has changed/improved with it since they now appear to be sending 2 separate shipments. Maybe not. Anyway, stay tuned.

Kaleb, keep in mind the C4 setup (DOIP or non-DOIP) could have the SAME SOFTWARE. You may have the same issue where HHT-Win is not launched by DAS.