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OWNER Honest Speed Shop (400E)

Honest Speed Shop

Member
Member
I just bought my first 400E and joined the board. 8050C6A4-A7E8-4E7E-B975-6BB866F5BF68.jpeg
I have had it a few days and am really enjoying it. It’s a 92 with about 157k miles. Very clean and drives well. I plan on going to a bigger wheel if anyone has any monoblocks for sale and anything else cool that will fit let me know. I am also thinking of doing the H&R springs that lower it 1.3” as well as going though the suspension. Anyone else have experience with those H&R springs and have an opinion on ride quality? I also would like the give it a little more growl. The previous owner deleted the resonator but It’s still way too quite. I plan on driving it daily this summer along with some of my other fleet. I hope to get a 500E in the future but figured I try one of these first. I’m located in Columbus, Ohio. CE7DB3ED-1BA1-4A6A-B479-50B20DA4462F.jpegThanks!
8050C6A4-A7E8-4E7E-B975-6BB866F5BF68.jpeg
 
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:welcome:

There are a few people here who have H&Rs along with 17 wheels. Hopefully they'll comment. My 400E, in the same color as yours, that I've had for almost 7 years is completely stock and, for now, still riding on stock 15 inch wheels. My suspension, front and rear, along with subframe bushings is completely renewed with specific-to-400E MB and Lemforder parts and like it this way, as it's my daily driver and it allows me to pilot the car in a relaxed and confident manner, and not being too concerned about road quality, tip-toeing around broken pavement and potholes. Still, I find the car to be somewhat relatively jarring on unideal roads compared to modern midsize sedans. I can't imagine daily driving it on 17 inch wheels, on a lowered suspension. I do have 16 inch wheels shod in 215/55 rubber waiting to be put on, but that's as far as I'm willing to go. That's just my two cents.
 
Welcome and congrats on your 400E, I can't offer anything on the H&R's other than what I've read.
In general, lowering and bigger wheels can lead to rubbing, depending upon how big you go with the wheels.
There isn't a lot of room to play with wheel ET and width very much on a 400E, and lowering will make it more difficult.
But others have done it, hopefully you can get precise info so your not reinventing the wheel and wasting money to get the right combo.
On our E420 I stayed with stock suspension and stock 7.5 x 17" et 42, (I think), Monoblocks (with a 124 P/N), perfect fit, no rub at all.
Anyway, lots of experts here to help you get what your looking for, good luck...
 
@ kiev, they are in the shed, to be mounted in April. I'll look tomorrow, but I'm fairly certain they are 225/45 R17, perfect 25" diameter, mounted on very rare Mono II 124 optional rims.

@HSS I have a 17" C36 Staggered Mono II set in near perfect condition for sale, here is what they look like and the specs, just an ad to show you what they are, not the actual wheel or price.

But if you are lowering, these may rub...
1615523281573.png
 
Very nice car! :)

My 400E/E420 has original 7×16 ET46 8-hole rims (an european model, with the big brakes). These rims are perfect for this model. The lowering of this car is not really advisable in my opinion, it degrades the comfort too much on bad roads (however, if the roads are like billiards...). Perhaps it would be better to change the sway bars?
 
Congrats! I’ve got H&R springs and Bilstein B8‘s with monoblocks on my 95 E420. No rubbing issues at all and I think the car rides like it’s on rails which might be a bit too firm for some people but I really like it. Lots of details in my owner thread but here are the specs...

Wheels are from a W202 AMG
Front - 17 x 7.5", ET35 with 215/45ZR-17
Rear - 17 x 8.5", ET30 with 225/45ZR-17

D3892819-C58D-4AAD-B6E0-8A88D40F4D2D.jpeg
 
@ kiev, they are in the shed, to be mounted in April. I'll look tomorrow, but I'm fairly certain they are 225/45 R17, perfect 25" diameter, mounted on very rare Mono II 124 optional rims.

@HSS I have a 17" C36 Staggered Mono II set in near perfect condition for sale, here is what they look like and the specs, just an ad to show you what they are, not the actual wheel or price.

But if your lowering these may rub...
View attachment 128060
Thanks! What are you asking for those and what is the offset? Where are you located?
 
Congrats! I’ve got H&R springs and Bilstein B8‘s with monoblocks on my 95 E420. No rubbing issues at all and I think the car rides like it’s on rails which might be a bit too firm for some people but I really like it. Lots of details in my owner thread but here are the specs...

Wheels are from a W202 AMG
Front - 17 x 7.5", ET35 with 215/45ZR-17
Rear - 17 x 8.5", ET30 with 225/45ZR-17

View attachment 128063
That looks perfect!
 
Welcome to the forum, and congrats on the new 400E.

1) Before you start messing with modifications and lowering, I'd STRONGLY recommend going through the entire suspension and seeing what needs replacement. Unless it came with a stack of records and/or was maintained open-chequebook by the PO, there's a strong possibility it may need new steering linkages, some bushings, almost certainly the rear wheel carrier joints, and dampers (struts/shocks, strut mounts/buffers/boots).

2) Lowering will require a dealer alignment, most all alignment shops won't do it properly, unless (maybe) they specialize in Mercedes. You want to fix everything on the chassis first, then pay for ONE dealer alignment (~$180 or so). Ride height affects alignment, and you may need to change the spring pads to tweak the height front & rear... requires driving a bit after each change, measuring again, etc. Do all this BEFORE the alignment and also before you buy new tires.

3) Remember that H&R springs are one-size-fits-most. There are factory Sportline springs which allow more fine tuning, but will cost a bit more. @a777fan is working on a full Sportline conversion for his E420 and might be able to chime in. Blue Ridge MB has custom sway bars available if you want to reduce body roll. Dampers are a personal preference thing but if lowered, you'll probably want OE Sportline, Bilstein Sport, or KONI yellows (in order from least to most firm).

4) The wheels shown above are an aggressive fitment, specifically the 8.5 ET30 rears. You WILL need to roll the fender lips and use fender spacers are shown in the AMG wheel install docs at the link below (scroll to the bottom):
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/W124/


5) Tire size selection is critical, note that Gator used a 225 rear tire on the 8.5 wheel. Be very very careful with tire sizes. The ABS and cruise control will have problems if the difference in diameter/circumference is more than about 2%, and Gator's setup is at 1.6% difference. If your car has optional ASR make sure the rears are slightly larger than the front, or you'll also have ASR issues.

6) The exhaust on these cars is quiet. Ask @kegmankipp about that. The factory catalysts flow extremely well (near zero power loss) but also reduce most of the growl. If the resonator delete wasn't enough, all you can do is try an aftermarket muffler as well. If the factory cats are in good condition, DO NOT modify or replace them. If you insist on changing them, remove the factory cats & crossover pipe, and install custom parts (like the Leistung exhaust). The factory parts are NLA and nearly impossible to find used.

7) Don't forget to check condition of the upper & lower wire harnesses, datecode on the ETA (especially if the car has ASR), all ignition system components, and verify spark plugs are NON-resistor. Search the forum for details on all of the above.

8) I always recommend dropping the lower oil pan at your first oil change to inspect for chain rail debris. If you find any, you MUST pull both valve covers for inspection, and may need to replace all the upper chain rails/guides. If the oil pan is clean, replace the O-ring for the oil level sensor while the pan is off, and if the sump pickup boot is the old/small version, replace with the new/large version. Cost of parts is low, and this is a once-per-ownership job.

9) I don't know how familiar you are with part vendors for MB's but there's more and more garbage on the market the last ±5 years or so. If you buy based on price, it will bite you. Follow the recommendations at the list below. For certain items you'll be forced to buy OE/Genuine parts from a dealer as there are no quality aftermarket equivalents anymore. There are a bunch of different MB dealers that sell online at a discount using the Revolution Parts platform, find one near you with good pricing to save on ship costs. Click here for info on one of them.



10) If there's no record of the ignition tumbler having been replaced, order one from the dealer (VIN-coded) and replace it proactively. Cost will be near $100 but it comes with a new steel key, use the new key only. The tumblers can seize without warning and trust me, you do not want that to happen. When I get a new 124, the very first part I order is the tumbler (p/n 126-460-02-04).

11) Almost everything you need to know has been covered repeatedly on the forum. Search first, or @xfadmin won't be happy. :duck:


And finally...

:welcome4:
 
@Honest Speed Shop, @gsxr just provided you with the ultimately encompassing $1,000 consultation for free. If you were a beginning rocketeer, this would be akin to a 1-on-1 with Elon Musk strolling along a shoreline at sunset on an exotic island, after you saved him from a burning vehicle. Ask him for his address via DM and send him a bottle of high end Taittenger
 
Welcome to the forum, and congrats on the new 400E.

(snip)

:welcome4:
Thanks for the info! I will make sure to go through that list. I do own my own shop and we have a Hunter alignment rack and machine and we do a lot of lifted and lowered stuff. I appreciate all the MD specific advice.
 
Thanks for the info! I will make sure to go through that list. I do own my own shop and we have a Hunter alignment rack and machine and we do a lot of lifted and lowered stuff. I appreciate all the MD specific advice.
Mercedes alignments require a spreader bar (Beissbarth part # 860 000 883 or equivalent) when setting front wheel toe, or the toe will not be correct.

Also, the steering box must be centered (not the steering WHEEL). If the box is centered and wheel is not, the wheel must be removed and centered on the splined shaft.


:cheers:
 
I’ve had 8 124s over the years and they have varied from stock, to H&R with Bilsteins, Konis with some Purple springs I can’t remember the name, and 3 Sportlines. I’ve had 15, 16, 17, and 18 inch wheels at different points.

A quick glance at Dave’s suspension chart on w124performamce and it’s clear that Mercedes offers many different options depending on the 124 model and feel desired. I figured that no combination of other random manufacturer’s parts would perform anywhere near what Mercedes engineered to work as a “system”.

So I built up two Sportline cars from scratch, first a 95 wagon and then a 94 E420, with every possible Sportline option available. Every bushing, link, mount, struts/shocks, springs, lower control arms, etc. along with 500e sways with Sportline bushings and AMG fender spacer kit and the result is incredible. Beautiful vintage Mercedes smooth as glass ride quality along with killer handling when needed. It’s so nice it makes my 16’ E wagon with factory Installed AMG suspension option feel like a joke in comparison.

With regards to wheel selection, my preference is a solid 16” wheel as it overall rides the best with full Sportline plus setup. Light and nimble for great tracking and avoids the walking in a ski boot feel of the larger and heavier wheels. I believe the suspension was tuned with the tall tire sidewalls as part of the compliance.

With 1 bump front pads and 2 bump rear pads the cars sits just perfect and has zero rubbing or bottoming out while mobbing on the freeway at top speed. 🍻
 
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Welcome!
I have H&R setup with Sachs 115 070 on front and some kind of monroe shocks at the back that previous owner installed. I really like this setup along side with sportline version. It rides like on rails like @Gatorblue92 already mentioned. It is stiff that's for sure, so this setup it's not for someone that enjoys that pleasure ride of old MB. I bought H&R springs because previous owner installed Lorinsser lowering spring 25years and sadly one of the springs at the front decided to split itself into two parts. 😭 Now I only need to do full rear subframe rebuild.
Wheels OEM 8-hole 7x16 ET46 215/55/16.
Front 2-bump pads
Rear 3-bump pads.
42111760_2246609302238394_8951639304396865536_o_waifu2x_photo_noise0_scale_tta_1.png

And here is how low car was sitting with old front struts.
2017.03.21_16.52.48.jpg

 
I’ve had 8 124s over the years and they have varied from stock, to H&R with Bilsteins, Konis with some Purple springs I can’t remember the name, and 3 Sportlines. I’ve had 15, 16, 17, and 18 inch wheels at different points.

A quick glance at Dave’s suspension chart on w124performamce and it’s clear that Mercedes offers many different options depending on the 124 model and feel desired. I figured that no combination of other random manufacturer’s parts would perform anywhere near what Mercedes engineered to work as a “system”.

So I built up two Sportline cars from scratch, first a 95 wagon and then a 94 E420, with every possible Sportline option available. Every bushing, link, mount, struts/shocks, springs, lower control arms, etc. along with 500e sways with Sportline bushings and AMG fender spacer kit and the result is incredible. Beautiful vintage Mercedes smooth as glass ride quality along with killer handling when needed. It’s so nice it makes my 16’ E wagon with factory Installed AMG suspension option feel like a joke in comparison.

With regards to wheel selection, my preference is a solid 16” wheel as it overall rides the best with full Sportline plus setup. Light and nimble for great tracking and avoids the walking in a ski boot feel of the larger and heavier wheels. I believe the suspension was tuned with the tall tire sidewalls as part of the compliance.

With 1 bump front pads and 2 bump rear pads the cars sits just perfect and has zero rubbing or bottoming out while mobbing on the freeway at top speed. 🍻
Thanks! I will start looking at sportline parts for sure now.
 

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