Installed Renntech air box , need help !

[Roma_500E]

Hi guys,

Recently we have installed Renntech air box on a car (not my car) and noticed some problem .

The thing here is that car has a gap in acceleration between 700rpm and 2000rpm , after 2k rpm it goes/pulls nice.

This "gap" appeared after we have installed air box. It is not super bad gap but it is noticiable.

Car's ETA is just fine and other electrical stuff appears to be good.

So ....
Question is: Does Renntech air box requires Renntech chip to be installed on a car for proper acceleration ?

Really appreciate your help cuz we are confused .

 

[gerryvz]

No, there is no co-dependency between those two parts.

RENNtech claimed +10 HP & +8 lb-ft additional for the carbon-fiber airbox, at a price of $1,250 including K&N air filters.

RENNtech claimed +15 HP & +17 lb-ft additional for the EEPROM chip, at a price of $850.

There was no free additional HP to be had by adding both parts together.

The ACTUAL HP and torque gains with the airbox have, to my knowledge, never been confirmed "before and after" by any owner with a dyno. I believe that GSXR has tested various chips with essentially no HP/torque gains. That being said I am not sure that any of the chips he tested are CONFIRMED EEPROM chips FROM RENNtech. There were a lot of eBay copies of performance chips, and purported clones of RENNtech chips being sold about 10-12 years ago, but I don't recall ever seeing a confirmed, original RENNtech chip -- only an alleged clone of their chip. And the "clones" didn't provide any additional power. I'd think one could start to feel +15 HP.

Back in the day, some owners with RENNtech carbon-fiber air-boxes noticed that the engine would stall when taking a low-speed left-hand turn, such as a U-turn. This problem could be reliably reproduced. Replacing the airbox with the stock box cured this condition.

 

[7delta]

Trae, may be a good person to seek input from, I believe he has a Renntech and a "stock" E5E. I believe an observation of differences in power bands was discussed in a thread. But I could be wrong.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[gerryvz]

I think Trae's RENNtech mods go beyond just an airbox and a chip, though. Same for samiam44.

Don't confuse simple bolt-on mods with a displacement change and other
"true" performance parts they offered, like performance cams, port/polish heads and intake manifold, and a 6.0-liter displacement.

 

[Klink]

I can't speak to this particular airbox, but I can say that a number of these aftermarket air boxes and filter elements do create airflow anomolies such as air flowing around the sensing wires as opposed to over them in different speed and load ranges (whirlpool / swirling), relative to the factory box. A number of them have created check engine lamp conditions, especially on later cars with more sophisticated monitoring softwares. Air flow through the air mass sensors is carefully designed into ALL of the intake plumbing from the front of the vehicle all the way to the throttle plate. It doesnt surprise me that messing with it can have unintended conquences, as I have seen it a number of times. The bottom line is that if people see carbon fiber and/or hear more sound, it is a performance increase. So much the more so if it costs a lot. It mates perfectly with cartoon size wheels and other such "enhancements"...

 

[maw1124]

The bottom line is that if people see carbon fiber and/or hear more sound, it is a performance increase.

...or so they may be tempted to think.

maw

 

[maw1124]

The ACTUAL HP and torque gains with the airbox have, to my knowledge, never been confirmed "before and after" by any owner with a dyno. I believe that GSXR has tested various chips with essentially no HP/torque gains. That being said I am not sure that any of the chips he tested are CONFIRMED EEPROM chips FROM RENNtech. There were a lot of eBay copies of performance chips, and purported clones of eBay chips being sold about 10-12 years ago, but I don't recall ever seeing a confirmed, original RENNtech chip -- only an alleged clone of their chip. And the "clones" didn't provide any additional power. I'd think one could start to feel +15 HP.

I have a real RennTech chip, but stock airbox and no dyno confirmation. I've run (1) the RT chip in an original LH Module, (2) the stock chip in a rebuilt LH module, and now (3) the RT chip in the rebuilt LH module, all with the new exhaust (lighter than stock). The current one "gives" more, but I cannot say whether that's the LH rebuild, the rebuilt transmission, placebo, or some combination of the three. And I have no dyno experience.

Knowing what I know about Mercedes engineering -- specifically computer engineering -- I'm on the fence about tuning them. I think on later cars, you can definitely "tune out" some of that legendary conservatism, irrespective of the wisdom of doing so. On these, I doubt it. I am convinced though that rebuilding your LH module is money WELL spent.

Cheers,

maw

 

[maw1124]

Hi guys,

Recently we have installed Renntech air box on a car (not my car) and noticed some problem .

The thing here is that car has a gap in acceleration between 700rpm and 2000rpm , after 2k rpm it goes/pulls nice.

This "gap" appeared after we have installed air box. It is not super bad gap but it is noticiable.

Car's ETA is just fine and other electrical stuff appears to be good.

So ....
Question is: Does Renntech air box requires Renntech chip to be installed on a car for proper acceleration ?

Really appreciate your help cuz we are confused .

I don't think so, Roma. I don't think the two are related. I don't have my records handy but I recall my car's prior owner complaining about a flat spot in acceleration. But I don't recall what the fix was. He was running the RT chip and stock box with K&N filter. This shows that you can have that flat spot with the RT chip, so I think it's independent of both the chip and the airbox (although I certainly have to defer to Klink's expertise and experience).

Hazarding a guess here, how old are your plugs? Finally, I have noticed some "oddities" in the first few hundred miles on my car after swapping from the RT and the stock chip, in the same LH module. So if your ignition stuff is all fine (plugs, caps, rotors, wires, etc.) I'd say don't worry about it for the first 500 miles or so, then see what's up.

maw

 

[Maui]

Roma, sorry to here about your issue. I have always considered the Renntech airbox as bling rather than performance. I have to admit, I have never seen one in person but the design looks very similar to the stock box. I suppose they could have done something internally to reduce turbulence but there is no way I can see it adding any appreciable horsepower without providing more air. I do like the look of the Renntech airbox. In my opinion changing the air entering the airbox would be more advantageous. Cooling the air prior to entering the airbox and providing a more unobstructed path would be better than just modifying the box internals. Again, I have never examined one of these boxes in person and I do enjoy examining boxes.

 

[gsxr]

The larger airbox should not affect normal operation, there should be no "gap" in power between 700-2000 rpm. If so, something is wrong. The one confirmed issue with the high-volume airboxes is a tendency to stall when doing a slow U-turn (i.e., in a city street at a left-turn arrow). This is due to what Klink described in post #5.

Power gains: Near zero, at least on a 5L engine. Sorry.

 

[samiam44]

I've read some on this via my chip re-programing effort which is applicable.

From what I read on these MAF sensors are very sensitive. OE's get abnormalities with different pleat orientations in paper element filters. Fundimentally, I don't see the RT housing as anything other than bling.

Check your MAF and make sure it is working well and clean. I'm with Dave it should not effect function. what airfilters are you running? May go back with stock, clean the sensor and see if that cures the problem.


M

 

[8899]

Here's an OE box that could probably be had for cheap:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Be...m-1995-e420-/221832360097?hash=item33a63d30a1

 

[nocfn]

Bob (the seller) sent me the front of that cover LOL, along with the valve body.

 

[8899]

Bob (the seller) sent me the front of that cover LOL, along with the valve body.

Hilarious. He is trying to sell me a complete rear sunshade assembly. I have photos but encouraged him to join 500eboard and post it in the FS section.

 

[Klink]

Why people are surprised to learn that engineering staffs that know how to design entire engines do not somehow become complete idiots when it comes time to design the forward induction system, I'll never know...

 

[gsxr]

Why people are surprised to learn that engineering staffs that know how to design entire engines do not somehow become complete idiots when it comes time to design the forward induction system, I'll never know...

I agree, Klink. I suspect many folks are keeping the hope alive that the engineers were forced to restrict power due to emissions, noise, or other regulations... and that there might be some easy way to unlock "hidden" power. Problem is, Mercedes did an awfully good job on the M119...

 

[Trae]

You guys are discounting "Carbon Fiber" air!

Don't you know that air in a carbon fiber box is far superior to air in a plain black plastic box?

The molecular structure of the O2 somehow changes to become "more dense" as it passes through the carbon fiber therefore providing better compression to the engine to produce said power gains.

It is all about the mystical carbon fiber transformation of the air that goes on in that box! It is a secret that only Renntech knows about.

However, you, too, can be privileged if you can cough up enough $$$$ to purchase the Renntech airbox.

Then you can be a hair faster than the other 500Es, or at least look prettier.

BTW, the carbon fiber air box IS a great chick magnet!

 

[Klink]

You guys are discounting "Carbon Fiber" air!

Don't you know that air in a carbon fiber box is far superior to air in a plain black plastic box?

The molecular structure of the O2 somehow changes to become "more dense" as it passes through the carbon fiber therefore providing better compression to the engine to produce said power gains.

It is all about the mystical carbon fiber transformation of the air that goes on in that box! It is a secret that only Renntech knows about.

However, you, too, can be privileged if you can cough up enough $$$$ to purchase the Renntech airbox.

Then you can be a hair faster than the other 500Es, or at least look prettier.

BTW, the carbon fiber air box IS a great chick magnet!

All excellent points, Captain. But the chick magnet function only works when the hood is open...

 

[8899]

when the hood is open...

And when the hood light is illuminated...

 

[Trae]

My Renntech sticker on top of the box is so worn that you can barely make out the word.

I need to refresh that sticker to become a real chick magnet.

 

[gerryvz]

Hilarious. He is trying to sell me a complete rear sunshade assembly. I have photos but encouraged him to join 500eboard and post it in the FS section.

He did join the forum, just in the past day or two. Member name, "baronyoungman"

 

[gerryvz]

Why people are surprised to learn that engineering staffs that know how to design entire engines do not somehow become complete idiots when it comes time to design the forward induction system, I'll never know...

Hopefully the M119 engineers weren't the same guys who designed the cylinder heads for the M272/273, and the balance shafts, yadda yadda .....

 

[gsxr]

Hopefully the M119 engineers weren't the same guys who designed the cylinder heads for the M272/273, and the balance shafts, yadda yadda .....

Not likely. They probably WFR'd the M119 guys and replaced them with younger, cheaper headcount.

 

[Klink]

Hopefully the M119 engineers weren't the same guys who designed the cylinder heads for the M272/273, and the balance shafts, yadda yadda .....

those were "Butt Dyno" tested, just like all those air filters...

 

[Maui]

If you really want to add some horsepower nothing beats the Vortec Cyclone.

 

[gerryvz]

those were "Butt Dyno" tested, just like all those air filters...

Judging by the number of M272/273 heads direct from the local MB "stealers" that are sitting in the local machine shop for repair, those engineers must have had a few too many "kellerbier" the night before they designed those cylinder heads, particularly the valvetrain.

 

[600Eric]

Judging by the number of M272/273 heads direct from the local MB "stealers" that are sitting in the local machine shop for repair, those engineers must have had a few too many "kellerbier" the night before they designed those cylinder heads, particularly the valvetrain.

Yep. I bought my wife a GL450 back in '09 and unfortunately had nothing but problems with it. When they had to replace the right head at 30K miles that was the end of that. No more 273's for me.

 

[Roma_500E]

Appreciate all your thoughts and responses.

I agree to you guys that these accessories do not really improve performance espicially on M119 engine.

That is why I said it is not my car cuz I do not believe in significant power gain and prefer not to interfere in engine with such a stuff.

If we find out what was a problem I will post it here.

So far decided to let car drive for a while and see if it will cure the prolem.

Regards,
Roma

 

[Unavita]

I have seen these air boxes. It is my opinion that the 10hp claimed gain is what would come from K&N alone. I see not great modification difference that would suggest and kind of gain.

 

[TerryA]

I have seen these air boxes. It is my opinion that the 10hp claimed gain is what would come from K&N alone. I see not great modification difference that would suggest and kind of gain.

I run the K&N air filters in my stock 93 500E airbox and see no noticeable gain in power. A little more intake noise is about it.

 

[gerryvz]

Numerous people on this forum have run K&N filters over the past couple of decades. Not a single member has seen any sort of horsepower gain.

When it comes to these "oiled" K&N filters, the juice is literally not worth the squeeze, and honestly has the potential to bork one's MAF if not oiled correctly.

 

[gsxr]

Numerous people on this forum have run K&N filters over the past couple of decades. Not a single member has seen any sort of horsepower gain.

When it comes to these "oiled" K&N filters, the juice is literally not worth the squeeze, and honestly has the potential to bork one's MAF if not oiled correctly.

Yep - what Gerry said above. The OEM paper filters (Mann, etc) are not a flow restriction because MB designed the intake system "oversize". And, the OEM paper filters last a good 30-50kmi if you aren't driving in extremely dirty conditions. Unless you are racking up 50kmi annually there's no cost savings with K&N vs paper, and as noted, zero power gain either.

 

[TerryA]

If you clean the K&N filter per their directions no harm will come to the TB hot wire sensor. Directions say to clean with their spray cleaner and oil lightly ( do not soak it in oil). I’ve had mine on the car for around 40K miles with absolutely no problems.

 

[gerryvz]

If you clean the K&N filter per their directions no harm will come to the TB hot wire sensor. Directions say to clean with their spray cleaner and oil lightly ( do not soak it in oil). I’ve had mine on the car for around 40K miles with absolutely no problems.

Absolutely true. It is 100% possible to oil the filter with zero detriment to the MAF. And you have to pay for that special filter cleaner and oil. BUT, it requires one to pay attention and do it the right way.

And to what advantage? It's not like one is getting 10 or 20 extra horsepower for the significantly extra effort, as opposed to just dropping in a couple of new MB or Mann or Hengst dry air filter elements, a 10 minute job.

 

[szvook]

I can also confirm that ITG filters provided no power gains as well, tested them when I was still drag racing.

 

[ArauzMotoring]

On Facebook, I saw someone selling an air intake set up for the R129 500SL

Apparently it’s mandrel bent aluminum tubes. They claim it should make power yet still haven’t posted Dyno numbers to back it up..

Wonder if the ducting can be routed in the 500E engine bay to help provide more cool air vs the factory headlight ducting

 

[gsxr]

On Facebook, I saw someone selling an air intake set up for the R129 500SL

Apparently it’s mandrel bent aluminum tubes. They claim it should make power yet still haven’t posted Dyno numbers to back it up..

that's an answer to a question that nobody asked.

 

[gerryvz]

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, has ever published clear and credible numbers for any type of airbox, filter or chip mod that ACTUALLY DOES and DEMONSTRABLY adds power. I've been waiting 23 years for this.

I have seen numbers for increased nitrous-oxide power - my own dyno numbers and quarter-mile time + trap speed numbers - from 2004. And there is no question that supercharger numbers are going to be improved, as well as 6.0 increased displacement.

But no modification to the M119 should ever be believed until there are credible, dyno-proven numbers behind it. And honestly, judging by history, this will likely never happen.

The lesson here is to not bother buying any performance modification to the M119.

 

[Unavita]

Except when GSXR bumps up a 4.2 ecu!

 

[Unavita]

On Facebook, I saw someone selling an air intake set up for the R129 500SL

Apparently it’s mandrel bent aluminum tubes. They claim it should make power yet still haven’t posted Dyno numbers to back it up..

Wonder if the ducting can be routed in the 500E engine bay to help provide more cool air vs the factory headlight ducting

Please let me know as soon as he has any actionable and credible information.

A long time ago- when I was still flying and my dad was alive I was heavily into flow dynamics. Water, hydraulic fluid, air intakes, wings and fuselage stuff. My guess- and I am open to being wrong - here but the obvious missing part of the above kit is surface area. Surface area equates to volume- V is very important in the equation for flow dynamics. There is an episode of Engine Masters that is hilarious but it kinda covers the importance of volume.

Moderator edit - skip to 8:25 for the summary of results:

Air is a funny element. It likes to flow in rough areas better than a smooth one most of the time. It finds ways to hangout in places if it can and cause vortices- 1970 Chevelle LS6 cowl ( it has everything to do with the angle of the windshield!)- is a great example of air flow causing a vortex! So is a velocity stack.

If you think of wing design you really begin to get a better picture. Anyway- I won't bore anyone else ! Still, I might give that a whirl just for kicks on a dyno!

 

[Unavita]

Just from looks it seems the pipes are not the same diameter- yet another scenario that will cause curiosities in the mathing.

Consider workmanship- or lack of- a clear sign of the guess work... but I have seen such workmanship on, say, early Shelby Daytona's.

 

[Unavita]

After looking further there are a ton of questions that could be asked that I am sure this person has not thought of like... if there is greater volume of air mass at one part of the intake what happens when it tries to get through the other part.

Looking where the air is entering I pretty sure you would loose volumetric efficiency.

 

[gerryvz]

Except when GSXR bumps up a 4.2 ecu!

Many of us have implemented “WOT” ECUs.

Any horsepower gain would likely be 7-10 HP and only felt at full acceleration. I don’t believe that there is any real-world gain in regular driving.

I certain cannot feel 10 HP myself, maybe others can.

In any case, not a monumental gain like those from some of the claimed “performance mods”. Like the RENNtexh airbox and chip.

 

[gsxr]

There is an episode of Engine Masters that is hilarious but it kinda covers the importance of volume.

What a great video! I need to market a salad bowl for $299... might have some hood clearance issues though.

 

[Unavita]

I would contribute to the fund of anyone wanting to modify their 500E hood for that!

 

[Unavita]

Many of us have implemented “WOT” ECUs.

Any horsepower gain would likely be 7-10 HP and only felt at full acceleration. I don’t believe that there is any real-world gain in regular driving.

I certain cannot feel 10 HP myself, maybe others can.

In any case, not a monumental gain like those from some of the claimed “performance mods”. Like the RENNtexh airbox and chip.

What I can tell for sure on my WOT ECU is there is a different exhaust note even upon warm up and idle.