M119.974 Top-End Consumables Mini Refresh — @Jlaa

[Jlaa]

If you order the Tecalan tubing from AHAZ or FCP et al, you will get one continuous piece of tubing, not individual 1-meter lengths.

Yeah, except FCP gave me 3 individual 1 meter lengths of 000-987-27-27 and told me they weren't able to give me 3 meters of it. And then FCP tried to make me pay for return shipping.

I'll just have Bob and Nick @ Naperville send me a 3 meter cut of 000-987-27-27 and put it in the same box as the 10 meter cut of 000-158-14-35 they promised that are going to send me to rectify the 10x1meter cut situation.

FWIW, when there are issues, I like dealing with Bob and Nick. They have great cust service skills.

 

[dionphaneuf]

Unfortunately I have seen and done it all. Note that sometimes the parts systems will sub another PN which is incorrect and they run with it anyway.

Another oddity is transmission seal kits.

If you buy a 722.6 seal kit from the MB dealer you pay about £120 for an incomplete kit. Where MB revised some of the crucial seals they omitted them from the full seal kits!

Therefore I buy Febi German made OE Kaco 722.6 seal kits which come will ALL updated revised seals in the packet for about £60. I returned some MB kits to my dealer due to this nonsense.

Double check all your large orders. They will always sub or mess several parts up. I foresee this now for the most part and triple check during orders but some stuff still slips by. Hence I have drawers and shelves full of random new MB seal rings etc that didn't fit.

^^^I've had this happen to me a number of times. The worst was with the Tstat; I have the early/116 PN, but the system subbed in a late/119PN part. I realized when I got home, so I called and SFBenz ordered the correct part (that parts not really on them). The issue came up when they tried to charge me a 20% restocking fee on the part they incorrectly ordered. I pushed back and they agreed to waive, but just the gall to even try this got under my skin. I doubt they make much if any money on us doing this, but they nonetheless are representing the brand and the company, and I like to think they ought to be willing to put in a some extra effort to support enthusiast owners like ourselves and keep the cars on the road.

@Jlaa I think I overstated it a bit, she's always very personable and nice, and generally things have been fine, but along with the above case I've had small gaskets/orings be missing in an order when I double check at the counter. To their credit she's usually been able to find it in the back. I do feel fortunate that their is a local Benz dealer that I can order parts to and pick up for free, so maybe I shouldn't complain.

 

[Jlaa]

^^^I've had this happen to me a number of times. The worst was with the Tstat; I have the early/116 PN, but the system subbed in a late/119PN part. I realized when I got home, so I called and SFBenz ordered the correct part (that parts not really on them). The issue came up when they tried to charge me a 20% restocking fee on the part they incorrectly ordered. I pushed back and they agreed to waive, but just the gall to even try this got under my skin. I doubt they make much if any money on us doing this, but they nonetheless are representing the brand and the company, and I like to think they ought to be willing to put in a some extra effort to support enthusiast owners like ourselves and keep the cars on the road.

@Jlaa I think I overstated it a bit, she's always very personable and nice, and generally things have been fine, but along with the above case I've had small gaskets/orings be missing in an order when I double check at the counter. To their credit she's usually been able to find it in the back. I do feel fortunate that their is a local Benz dealer that I can order parts to and pick up for free, so maybe I shouldn't complain.

Ah, that's great! Yeah. I had an order once with Megan @ SFBenz parts where I double checked AT THE COUNTER (like you) and I realized that they were missing a clip ---- and Megan immediately ordered another clip, no probs. I get the sense that, like MBoemparts, she has been a bit overwhelmed through the COVID crisis b/c she was the only one "manning" the shop for a while, but it seems like SF Benz is crawling out of that hole .....

And I do like patronizing a local outfit and pick up for free.

 

[gerryvz]

And I do like patronizing a local outfit and pick up for free.

 

[dionphaneuf]

I always try to leave time to sniff around the service bays, check out the cars in the dealership, and puruse the model cars in the parts section. I scored this G63 6x6 for $20 not too long ago.

 

[gerryvz]

Have you commenced your refresh project yet?

 

[Jlaa]

Unfortunately not yet. I am pulling my hair out at a subtle and somewhat inconsistent driveline (maybe?) vibration. It is driving me bonkers. I am gonna try Jono’s suggestion next to address the 3rd motor mount (trans mount) which he feels strongly can fail due to age and not necessarily mileage.

 

[Kyiv]

Have you commenced your refresh project yet?

@Jlaa, anything going on?

 

[Jlaa]

@Jlaa, anything going on?

Unfortunately no, life (and death) has prevented me from doing anything.

 

[gerryvz]

@Kyiv -- I think he's still living vicariously through my own Engine Bay Refresh. And trying to determine all of the various hidden / esoteric foam pieces that his OCD is nagging him to replace and refresh to make his car perfect.

 

[gerryvz]

Have you commenced your refresh project yet?

Unfortunately not yet. I am pulling my hair out at a subtle and somewhat inconsistent driveline (maybe?) vibration. It is driving me bonkers. I am gonna try Jono’s suggestion next to address the 3rd motor mount (trans mount) which he feels strongly can fail due to age and not necessarily mileage.

@Jlaa, anything going on?

Unfortunately no, life (and death) has prevented me from doing anything.

Any updates on this project?!?

 

[Jlaa]

Any updates on this project?!?

Unfortunately no. Checking my records, I've driven this car 600 miles in the past 12 months .... maybe I will get to the 500E after I stop doing all these projects on my w210....

 

[gsxr]

Unfortunately no. Checking my records, I've driven this car 600 miles in the past 12 months .... maybe I will get to the 500E after I stop doing all these projects on my w210....

Just hand the keys to your daughter already, and stop trying to delay her hitting the streets!

 

[eddie916]

Here is a gsheet of parts that I will be using. I got the list of parts originally from @gerryvz's Top End Restoration Thread

I do not intend to open the cam covers or replace timing chain guides / oiler tubes / etc since I had that done 3.5 years ago.
As well, I do not intend to refurbish the coolant system since I put in new hoses / radiator / visco fan clutch 3.5 years ago. I do, however, intend to replace the hose @ the firewall that is accessible once the intake manifold is removed. I have a spare water pump that I do not intend to use, but maybe I will scope creep.

• I reverse-looked-up all the EPC diagrams from Gerry's list of parts and added twelve diagrams to the spreadsheet
• For each part, I indicated the which diagram and which number each part pertained to. I tried to color code the part to the diagram.
• Then I cross checked which parts he received in his hand written documents here and I found a few parts missing from the Top End Resto Thread and added them
• I added part 50 from diagram 119.974-14-125 which I believe was missing
• I added additional plastic pieces/covers around the cam magnet area / spark plug wire tray that are often broken
• I compared 2021 pricing with 2020 pricing from various vendors
• I ordered some parts (still not done ordering) and indicated which vendor I ordered from

500E top end - 1993

docs.google.com

This is incredible!

 

[gerryvz]

Any updates on this project ???

 

[Jlaa]

Any updates on this project ???

LOL I am a master at procrastination, no.
I took on a big project (residential house addition + pool). Then when that project started going too slowly, I took on another project (bought a short-wheelbase w220 S350 --- a marginally under-powered heavy car in the grand tradition of @JC220 's S280 from Singapore...... so I'm knee deep in fixing all that car's problems! I should update my owner's thread .......

 

[quantumorbit]

As far as I have known, ALL E500E ETAs and all E500 upper+lower harnesses were made with the bad wiring insulation, not just the later ones.

My 500E was built in Nov 1991. I thought the biodegradable wire harness started in 1992 and my car was exempt from this problem. This website claims the W124 from years 1993-1996 have the problem. A lot of conflicting information on the internet. Any reliable source of information ?

Restore Your Mercedes

 

[sheward]

My early build 92 is still operating on the original harness. I've never had any problems excepting the electric fans like to cycle occasionally, even when cold. The lack of issues likely relates to the fact that the harness has never been moved/fiddled with. I'll be changing it in the next week or two and will report what I find. I'm betting the harness is bad. I've had both upper and lower on the shelf for years.

 

[quantumorbit]

My early build 92 is still operating on the original harness. I've never had any problems excepting the electric fans like to cycle occasionally, even when cold. The lack of issues likely relates to the fact that the harness has never been moved/fiddled with. I'll be changing it in the next week or two and will report what I find. I'm betting the harness is bad. I've had both upper and lower on the shelf for years.

Can you share when was your car built according to the sticker on the door sill ? Thanks

 

[sheward]

From memory, May 92. I'll go down and verify that.

 

[gsxr]

My 500E was built in Nov 1991. I thought the biodegradable wire harness started in 1992 and my car was exempt from this problem. This website claims the W124 from years 1993-1996 have the problem. A lot of conflicting information on the internet. Any reliable source of information ?

Restore Your Mercedes

All 124.036, all years of production, had the biodegradable wire harness when manufactured. Full stop. AFAIK, this includes the earliest cars built in 1990 and the last ones built in 1995. Both the upper engine harness (to the injectors) and lower engine harness (to starter/alternator) are affect - all years. The earliest production 124.036 were not delivered to USA, so if any of the super early cars somehow got "good" insulation, nobody has reported this nor proven it with photos showing a 1990/1991 date code on a "good" harness. IMO, it's myth / urban legend that any early-production HFM or LH engines had good harnesses. The first USA-delivered cars were built in summer 1991, and definitely had the defective / biodegradable wire harness insulation.

All 124, 129, and 140 chassis with engines that have either HFM, or LH-SFI, have the biodegradable wire harness. The date/year of production is irrelevant. To my knowledge, there were no exceptions. (Note the R129.066 chassis, built from 1989-1992, has CIS-E injection and does not have biodegradable wire harnesses.)

What is confusing is that many/most (all?) pre-facelift 124's had ETA pigtails with non-biodegradable wiring. This was ONLY on the ETA external wire pigtail. And, good external wire doesn't mean the ETA is immune from failure, the internal components can still wear out and/or fail. The ETA wire doesn't seem to have a rhyme, reason, or break point. I've never seen a pre-facelift ETA with bad wiring but some people have reported they exist. OTOH, all facelift ETA's have biodegradable wiring. Pre/post facelift have different ETA connectors (pre-facelift is the large/flat "pancake" connector, post-facelift is the smaller/tubular "inline" connector).

 

[gerryvz]

There has been somewhat conflicting information for years about biodegradable wiring harnesses and ETAs and such. And this also varies by platform (W124, R129, W140, etc.).

Basically the biodegradable wiring began being produced and was phased in on the production lines as it went into the supply chain. I believe we have had a fair number of 1992 owners who have had bad upper wiring harnesses and ETA internal and external cable wiring, as well as 1993 and 1994 E500E owners. There is no "set" month or date as to when the stuff is definitively good or bad.

I do believe that MOST ALL E500Es produced (likely from mid-1991 to mid-1995 series production) were made with the bad (biodegradable) wiring. Others may contest this, but again, we do not know the definitive date when any changeover would have been made from supposedly "good" to "bad" wiring in the harnesses. MB couldn't even tell you that.

I have seen reported in some places that 1992 owners didn't have any problems with wiring harnesses, and it was only a "model year" 1993, 1994 and 1995 thing on the W124 chassis. I don't believe this is true. There are a number of factors involved in the longevity of wiring harnesses and ETA cables - engine heat, number of heat cycles, whether the harness/cable has been disturbed (and if so how many times), and so forth.

Even non-biodegradable wiring insulation and harnesses can get brittle just from age/mileage/heat cycles. My 1989 560SEC has some visibly bad harnesses and wiring (where insulation has come off) from age and milage, and it was not even the biodegradable stuff! It's inevitable that the wiring will go bad at some point.

The good thing is that on the vast majority of cars, the harnesses have been replaced by this point in time, and it is very easy to determine whether a given car's upper wiring harness or ETA is the original, or has been replaced.

It is an excellent idea, if one's harness has not been replaced, to proactively replace it. I did this back in 2004 or 2005 with my 1994 E500, with the upper harness, with only around 75K miles on the odometer. And I refurbished all of the internal and external wiring on my ETA in 2020, although it was badly failing, it had not caused any specific issues because it hadn't been disturbed. I had checked it also back in the 2005 time frame visually (slitting open the cable housing about an inch to look at the wire insulation) and at that time it was OK.

My lower wiring harness I also replaced in 2020, as it was also in pretty bad condition though not actively failing. I had the replacement lower harness stored in my parts stock for nearly 10 years.

 

[sheward]

My car is a February of 92 build. Need to double up on the Ginko Boloba.

 

[quantumorbit]

Thanks for the explanations. Will have to check if previous owner did the wire harness of my 500E. I've already done the ones for my 93 500SEL.

 

[gerryvz]

Thanks for the explanations. Will have to check if previous owner did the wire harness of my 500E. I've already done the ones for my 93 500SEL.

Pretty easy to check this:

Thread 'HOW-TO: Determining the age of your engine wiring harness'

Sep 21, 2011

See attached photos. The manufacturing date of the harness will be on the tag. If the date is 1996 or newer, the harness is not original. The new replacement harnesses made from at least 1998-up (possibly earlier) have improved insulation and do not fail after a few years like the originals did.

F.D. = manufacture date (this is the important date)
Z.D. = original design/release date (not sure which)

NOTE: Attached photos show the UPPER engine wiring harness tag location. The tag is similar for the lower harness (to the starter / alternator) but attached near the...

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