M119 electronic injectors leaking from injector body

[gsxr]

A few months ago, I noticed a faint gasoline odor from inside the passenger compartment while driving. It was only for the first 5-10 minutes after a cold start. When arriving at my destination (total ~20 mins driving), the smell was gone, and popping the hood sniffing around there was no smell, no leak, nothing. Hmmm, that's odd. This happened a few times but I couldn't find any leak. Then in late November, I was moving that car out of the garage and into the shop, so it sat idling for a few minutes after a cold start. This time, I didn't smell gas, but there was a visible trail of liquid drops from where the car was parked idling, into the shop. Yup, it was gasoline.

I had replaced the FPR (regulator, not relay) a few months prior and suspected something went awry there. Pulled the airbox to look, and nope, the FPR was dry. But there was a puddle of gas below 2-3 different injectors! Raw gas was welling up in the intake manifold cavity until it flooded backwards, draining onto the top of the transmission bellhousing, and drip-drip-dripping on the ground below. Never seen anything like this.

So, I assumed (wrongly) that it must be the O-rings where the injectors plug into the fuel rail, because injectors never leak, right? Pulled the injectors, the old O-rings looked fine, but I replaced them anyway. Reassembled everything, fired it up, and it was leaking as bad as before!

This time I looked closer and it appeared the leak was not from the O-ring to the fuel rail, but rather from the body of the injector itself, where the plastic portion meets the round metal body. I thought this was a crazy fluke, as I've never heard of this happening to anyone else on an M119, ever. I had a set of used injectors that I pulled from a junkyard car 10 years earlier, so I installed those. I've heard of injectors "dying" in long term storage, I assume from the internals getting gummed up, so I wasn't sure if they would function. Thankfully, the engine ran smoothly on all 8 cylinders as soon as it fired, phew. But... another 2-3 injectors were leaking in the same way, at the body of the injector!! WTH!!!

Now, since injectors from the dealer are ~$1000/set and remans are about $350/set or so, and I was trying to get this car running without waiting a week (or spending $350+)... I pulled a third set from an engine that I had in the shop. This particular engine was running flawlessly when removed, so I knew the injectors were good... ten years ago. Third time was the charm, sort of. When the engine started, 2-3 cylinders were not firing properly, and it was running very rough. But no leaks! After about 5 minutes of idling, it gradually smoothed out. Went for a test drive, power was normal, idle was smooth, no visible leaks. Success, I hope. The car is in winter storage now and won't be daily driven again until spring, probably late April or early May.


This is really depressing stuff. This is a car driven several times per month, not a car that was in long-term storage. And, it was only fed zero-ethanol Top Tier premium gas. The initial leak was bad enough to flood the cavities below the injectors, and have raw gas run out the rear of the engine, dripping onto the floor. It was not a tiny leak.

It seems like GB Remanufacturing is the only game in town for buying exchange remans. I hope they actually disassemble injectors and replace the internal O-rings, not just clean/test them.

UPDATE: None of the injector "rebuilders" disassemble these Bosch EV1 injectors. If it leaks from the body as seen here, they are considered "broken" and not fixable. Injectors which are leaking from the body are either junk, or can be sent in as cores if buying "exchange" remans from FCP/RME/AHAZ or similar vendors.

All the "rebuilders" do is an ultrasonic cleaning service, along with a new filter, pintle cap, and O-rings. Pricing varies from $18 to $35 per injector depending on the shop. Injectors cannot be "balanced" or adjusted in any way. When clean and functioning as new, all 8 are expected to be within factory spec and have similar flow. If one or more injectors from a set is out of spec, the only option is to get additional injectors of the same part number - then flow test, and mix & match to create a set of 8 with similar / in-spec measurements.


I need to ask the dealership if new are still available, as shown by MB Classic (currently $1,200 per set of 8), or if they only have remans (-80 suffix) available for the same price. Aftermarket Bosch are NLA. In the meantime, guess I should be snagging more junkyard sets, as I'd rather not plunk down $300-$400/set for remans for the daily drivers / beaters, nor $1k+ for new injectors if available.

EDIT: Another game in town is RC Fuel Injection (thanks, Jono!)

RC Fuel Injection

Photos and video coming soon... posted below:

 

[gsxr]

Here's a photo of the initial leaking injector, that was flooding the intake manifold cavity, and draining out the back of the engine, onto the transmission, dripping on the floor below the transmission bellhousing area.

 

[gsxr]

And, here's a photo of the SECOND set of injectors, which had been in storage (loose in a box) for about a decade, after being pulled from a junkyard engine.

On this injector, you can clearly see the orange plastic top of the injector is dry, where it plugs into the fuel rail. This shows it was not a leak from the O-ring on the rail, the leak is internal to the injector itself.

 

[gsxr]

Video of the first / original set of injectors. This was the worst offender (cylinder #7), you can see the drip and the puddle of gas after maybe 1-2 minutes of idling.

 

[sheward]

This seems too coincidental. My knowledge is weak on injectors and pumps but after contemplating what happened I'll ask, could the FPR be defective and allow over pressurization of the injectors? What pressure do the pumps put out?

I now think it was wise of me to save a set of these injectors that "never seem to fail"

 

[Draginev]

Thank god it didn't began to catch fire or something.

Could these be clogged so the pressure is big to cause this leak?

In my experience, usually the leaking injectors that is leaking air means it's bad O-ring

 

[gsxr]

This seems too coincidental. My knowledge is weak on injectors and pumps but after contemplating what happened I'll ask, could the FPR be defective and allow over pressurization of the injectors? What pressure do the pumps put out?

Good question, Drew. I think it's unlikely the pressure was abnormally high, but it won't hurt to check. However, note that for nitrous oxide use, part of the way it works is boosting the rail pressure to something like 90psi (vs the normal 50-60psi). So, the injectors should still be leak-free even at high pressure.

I now think it was wise of me to save a set of these injectors that "never seem to fail"

Yes - good idea to have a spare set, just in case. However, I'm hopeful that a set of professionally rebuild injectors would last a very long time. I need to contact GB and inquire what exactly they do during their process, on these specific injectors.

Thank god it didn't began to catch fire or something.

Could these be clogged so the pressure is big to cause this leak? In my experience, usually the leaking injectors that is leaking air means it's bad O-ring

I was thinking the same thing - I'm glad I found the root cause before it turned into a fireball. As noted above, the fuel system should be able to handle whatever pressure the pump can supply (up to maybe 90-100psi) without leaking. And yes, I believe the leak was caused by an internal O-ring failure inside the injector body.

 

[Draginev]

I was thinking the same thing - I'm glad I found the root cause before it turned into a fireball. As noted above, the fuel system should be able to handle whatever pressure the pump can supply (up to maybe 90-100psi) without leaking. And yes, I believe the leak was caused by an internal O-ring failure inside the injector body.

Scary incident. Let's hope it gets resolved. Sometimes this also doesn't make any sense since it's not ethanol that is eating anything.....

 

[Kridre]

If I remember correctly our injectors are 200cc 14.5ohms.

I found pdf online that says this injectors are also 200cc and 14.5 ohms resistance.

Bosch #0-280-156-045

Like the now NLA blue thin body injectors that goes by the number 0-280-156-024.

Just checked bosch parts catalogue and it's actually 150g/min and this is around 220cc. Not exactly 200, but close, wouldn't the ECU be able to correct this?

 

[Kridre]

I'm just thinking about available alternatives. Paying $1k for a set of injectors is outrageous and this injectors that I suggested are around $260 per set, if they would actually work. This is not too bad and I would rather go this way instead of cleaning and rebuilding old injectors after what I saw in the one of the M539 Streten videos. Leaking freshly rebuild Alpina B7 injectors.

 

[gsxr]

Kridre, is there any documentation showing that the NLA injector 0-280-156-024 can be replaced with 0-280-156-045?

Then again, I'm seeing the 0-280-156-045 (aka #62534) as backordered with no ETA at FCP... that may not be any help. I wonder if any other Bosch injectors are still available that might work.

In the meantime, the GB remans are still available in USA:

Search for '000-078-83-23' | FCP Euro

parts online. Buy OEM & Genuine parts with a Lifetime Warranty, Free Shipping and Unlimited 365 Day Returns.

www.fcpeuro.com

 

[Kridre]

I sadly wasn't able to find anything. I only saw in that one pdf that they are the same spec and that's all. 0-280-156-024 injector no longer even exists in the bosch online parts catalog and there is not much information there anyway, so I really can't compare them side by side. I found some info else where and the only difference is that 024 is EV6E and 045 is EV6C.



The last letter describes the pattern as seen here.



Here is another injector that is correct EV6E 150g/min and 14.5ohms #0-280-155-823. With this injector operating pressure is also listed. Sadly there is zero information about the height. Still 3.5bar is tiny bit to high for our cars.



Here is the pdf that I found with injectors resistance and flow listed. (PDF) Bosch Injectors and Ohms - DOKUMEN.TIPS

 

[Alphasud40]

Looks like an age and heat cycles kind of thing. I don’t think Bosch ever thought their injectors would be in service this long. One thing for sure is those old Bosch injectors have a build quality that modern injectors lack. With modern stuff some fail electrically and some lock on and hydrolock the engine. Talk about scary! I have never been impressed with GB remain stuff. I think you would have better luck with used injectors from a 93-95 SL with low miles. Have them professionally checked for flow and balance and use them instead.

 

[nocfn]

Saw this on your yootoob bit did not note the date. I thought wow, what a great find! Little did I know a car BQ was imminent in real time.

 

[gsxr]

Looks like an age and heat cycles kind of thing. I don’t think Bosch ever thought their injectors would be in service this long. One thing for sure is those old Bosch injectors have a build quality that modern injectors lack. With modern stuff some fail electrically and some lock on and hydrolock the engine. Talk about scary!

That would be scary... yikes. I wonder if any newer MB engines use injectors that could fail catastrophically as you describe?

I have never been impressed with GB remain stuff. I think you would have better luck with used injectors from a 93-95 SL with low miles. Have them professionally checked for flow and balance and use them instead.

Any tips on places that test flow/balance for a low enough cost to not just buy GB remans? Or perhaps buying a tester to check this as DIY? I assume if one injector in a set doesn't match the rest for flow/quantity, there's not much to do besides swap it out with another one... requiring a bunch of spares of the same p/n to sort through?

 

[Bogeyman]

Dave, I'm sure this concerns all of us. No one wants raw gas in the engine compartment.

My 350SL with D-Jetronic has short rubber hoses from the fuel rail to the injectors. As they age they tend to leak. Unfortunately there have been instances of under hood fires when this goes unnoticed.

I just hope for all of our sakes that you can pinpoint the cause and whether it was something preventable or just a unique situation that occurred with your car.

 

[Alphasud40]

I’m not sure about Mercedes but I know on the some Ford prod with either the 3.5 Ecoboost or the 5.0 Coyote engine there were some bad injectors that would fail on. Personally I have seen Denso injectors fail open circuit on some of the Toyota products. They are definitely not as robust as the early Bosch injectors.

There is a company in Spokane I could reach out to for pricing.

 

[TimL]

@gsxr, were you able to find out if the right injectors are still available new from MB or if they are NLA? Reading this thread reminds me how lucky I was when I found a new set that I was able to buy for €380 from a guy who sells NOS parts….

 

[gsxr]

@gsxr, were you able to find out if the right injectors are still available new from MB or if they are NLA?

Tim, no, I did not contact a Mercedes dealer to confirm availability. MBCC shows new and remans both available, but the price is (relatively) nuts.

Reading this thread reminds me how lucky I was when I found a new set that I was able to buy for €380 from a guy who sells NOS parts….

€380/set for new/NOS is awesome! I'd be interested in a set at that price if another appeared.

 

[TimL]

€380/set for new/NOS is awesome! I'd be interested in a set at that price if another appeared.

I’ll keep my eyes out for a set for you, Dave

 

[Joncf]

Video of the first / original set of injectors. This was the worst offender (cylinder #7), you can see the drip and the puddle of gas after maybe 1-2 minutes of idling.

This was before you did anything, correct?

 

[gsxr]

This was before you did anything, correct?

Yes - the video is of the original leaking injectors, before I replaced O-rings, or installed set #2 / set #3.

 

[Trae]

Unbelievable. I had a bad fuel injector with an intermittent electrical connection after the engine was at normal operating temperature that cause a miss. I threw every single ignition and fuel component out there, and still, it missed.

Finally found one injector that was misbehaving and replaced it with a parts car injector. Smooth since then, but your leak is scary. Never had one of those.

 

[MercEdi]

I sadly wasn't able to find anything. I only saw in that one pdf that they are the same spec and that's all. 0-280-156-024 injector no longer even exists in the bosch online parts catalog and there is not much information there anyway, so I really can't compare them side by side. I found some info else where and the only difference is that 024 is EV6E and 045 is EV6C.

View attachment 181425View attachment 181427

The last letter describes the pattern as seen here.

View attachment 181426

Here is another injector that is correct EV6E 150g/min and 14.5ohms #0-280-155-823. With this injector operating pressure is also listed. Sadly there is zero information about the height. Still 3.5bar is tiny bit to high for our cars.

View attachment 181428

Here is the pdf that I found with injectors resistance and flow listed. (PDF) Bosch Injectors and Ohms - DOKUMEN.TIPS

Hey there, I'm new to this forum. As this is my first post, I wanted to quickly introduce myself: my name's Edi, I'm from Germany and I drive a 1993 E420 with 341.000km (211887mi). So, I'm keen on building up a spare parts stock for myself and I stumbled upon this thread, adding injectors to my list.

The 0-280-156-024 has the newer EV6 design opposed to the original 000-078-83-23 EV1 design injector. My question is: have you or has anybody else ever used these 0-280-156-024 injectors in their .034/.036 and do they work? Couldn't find any information on that...

Concluding that the 0-280-156-024 work in the .034/.036, I would assume that the 0-280-155-823 could work as well as they're visually identical to each other and the flow rate/resistance/spraying pattern match:


I'm not sure though, the 0-280-155-823 looks like it's made for the E39 BMW/Alpina V8 engines. I don't know if they have any internal differences but the injectors bodies and looking at the parameters (flow rate, spraying pattern, resistance), they look pretty much interchangable, though I didn't find any information on operating pressures for these two.

 

[MercEdi]

Found a pretty neat chart with all the Bosch injector part numbers and specifications.

Fuel Injector information Specifications EFI Flow

When you scroll down to 0-280-155-217 (which is the latest Bosch part number of the original m119 injectors i think), you can also see the Bosch part numbers and specifications for the MB inline four, inline 6 and V12 engine injectors. Note that the specs are identical to the V8 engine ones.

The following post states that the M119 injectors work fine on the M104...
Post in thread 'fuel injectors'
fuel injectors | M119 Engine

...with the physical difference between the two being a plastic nozzle, which is turned by 180 degrees, but the injector can be clicked in place nevertheless:

This picture shows the 000-078-8323 M119 injector with the nozzle I think he meant visible


Here we have the 000-078-8523 M104 with the nozzle being on the other side


and last but not least the 000-078-7423 M111 injector with the same nozzle-orientation as the M104


They look very similar if not identical in the body form and given the specs are identical (according to the "robietherobot" chart) they might be interchangable. Well, we know that the M119 ones work on the M104, so why shouldn't it work the other way round?

I don‘t know if that‘s of any use though because all of the Bosch aftermarket injectors for the smaller engines are probably NLA as well and original ones cost as much as the M119 ones at the MB-dealer, but in theory they could work on the M119? This would vastly increase the selection for used spare injectors or NOS ones from the smaller engines if you come across them.

 

[nocfn]

I recently had my injectors reviewed and rebuilt. All of them had remnants of the filter internally and causing flow problems, and not always consistent when viewing live data. Not a bad idea to spend money ti have these tested cleaned and rebuilt if they are original. Bosch tech said most debris is the internal filter disintegration and new ones are better with todays blended fuels. Also, techron on a full premium tank once per year (fill tank first) is suggested, he reiterated only the Techron brand with emphasis). FWIW

 

[R129 UK]

That would be scary... yikes. I wonder if any newer MB engines use injectors that could fail catastrophically as you describe?

The M156 - see link below, injector replacement starts around 04:20:

Worryingly, reading the comments, there is no obvious sign that the injectors that can fail open have been redesigned etc. and if it can happen at very low miles, new ones could equally fail.

No mention of the potential for failure on the Wiki page either:

Mercedes-Benz M156 engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[R129 UK]

Side note: Have I discovered time travel on a Sunday afternoon?