Power steering pump bracket nearly fell off!!!

[Jason1238]

My son has been driving the .034 the last few weeks, and tonight he sent me a text from his buddy's house and said that he heard what sounded like belt squeal as he pulled in to park there. I tried to get more info out of him, but it was pretty pointless as he was otherwise engaged.

So when he got home, he pulled it into the garage and popped the hood. I could hear the noise he was talking about, and it didn't sound like belt noise. It sounded like a bearing grinding. :?

I open the hood and see that the PS reservoir is vibrating like mad Had him shut it off immediately.

I grab the reservoir and it felt loose. I can move it about a quarter of an inch back and forth, but it's not the only thing moving! The whole PS bracket is moving!

When I started digging into it, I found that the two hex head bolts that go in from the back of the bracket had sheared off, and the socket cap screw that goes in from the front was loose. I disconnected the return and pressure lines (which were fun to break loose with the whole thing just flopping around!) and pulled the whole bracket and PS pump out of the car. I found that there is still some of the socket cap screw still in the head (it was only threaded in about 4 threads apparently...either that, or it broke 4 threads deep in the hole?) and the sheared off hex bolt threads are still in the bracket. I have no idea how it stayed where it was or how the belt stayed on...

So I'm wondering...does anybody know the length of these three bolts so I can replace them?
I'm pretty sure I can get the broken bits out of the bracket, because I can take it to work and chuck it up in the Bridgeport mill, but any tips on getting the broken bolt out of the head? I've never had much luck hand drilling and using easy-outs...

Lastly, WHY would this happen? In 25 years of wrenching on all sorts of cars, I've never seen anything like it! The bolts aren't corroded much at all, and the breaks look fresh. I can't believe some sudden load on the pump would have caused it. Wouldn't the belt have slipped before that?

 

[gerryvz]

Just look in the EPC and get new factory bolts. They can't be that expensive.

Probably just worked loose, possibly from not being correctly tightened from a previous repair/R&R?

When you replace the bolts be sure to use some blue Loctite on the threads to prevent the problem from happening again.

To remove the old ones, I'd probably soak in Kroil for a couple of days and drill it with an easy-out, the traditional method. Perhaps others might have another suggestion.

Good luck !!

 

[samiam44]

Maybe it had been apart before and incorrectly tightened.

Once preload is lost, All the load goes through the bolt. The threads present a stress concentration of about 5.0 which multiply any load by 5X. Any corrosion gives a site for fatigue.. vola broken bolt.

I'd get some new bolts, MB or other wise. The EPC will give the lengths or maybe it's the shop manual. I've been lucky in dealing with my M119's and not had frozen bolts. Inlight of that, I would say carefully center punch and pull the hole if you are off center- use a bolt extractor.

They probably had washers...

Michael.

 

[vatc5637]

Just look in the EPC and get new factory bolts. They can't be that expensive.

Probably just worked loose, possibly from not being correctly tightened from a previous repair/R&R?

When you replace the bolts be sure to use some blue Loctite on the threads to prevent the problem from happening again.

To remove the old ones, I'd probably soak in Kroil for a couple of days and drill it with an easy-out, the traditional method. Perhaps others might have another suggestion.

Good luck !!

When I repaired my tandem pump last winter, I had to replace the 2 6mm allen screws (stripped threads) that attached the pump to the bracket from the rear, p/n 304017-008033 ($3.40 each from the local dealer). While I would imagine the p/n is the same for the E420, as per GVZ, you should check the EPC to be certain. FYI, the new bolts I received were cap head, sorry I don't know the exact length.

 

[Jason1238]

Thanks for the responses. I'm definitely going to take GVZ's advice on the blue loctite.

I got my hands on an extractor set with left-hand drills and easy-outs, so fingers crossed there. Hopefully the lefty drill bit will bite and back the bolt shaft out, as I think I've gotten an easy-out to work only a handful of times.

Regarding the EPC, I read up on how to access it (there are several posts on this board about it), but when I go the MB site http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/ and read the first bit of info, it states clearly that the info there is for 1994 models and newer. Would it be a waste to go thru the registration to try to find parts for a '93 400e?

The best thread I found on it was started by gsxr here and was made a sticky in the "Maintenance Documents" area of the board. It's a couple years old, and I think some of the various other methods of access described in it are dead now.

I know there's a lot of commonality in parts on '92 thru '95 model years, but I'd hate to find the few differences the hard way. That would most certainly be my luck!

Also, just for good measure, I'd like to say thank you to GVZ for keeping this board up and running! Never would have bought this car without the availability of the info that's kept here. It really is a treasure-trove!

 

[gsxr]

EPC goes waaaay back, to 1970's or 60's, if not earlier.

The 1994-up warning is for the WIS, which you don't need. The W124 service manuals are online free at the same website. Or you can access them here with a much easier to use interface.

 

[nocfn]

any ideas on the HP client security failure to load in the EPC with latest java update GSXR? (HP-hmmmm)

 

[gerryvz]

I'm using EPC with latest version of Java no problem at all. Java is owned by my employer.

 

[Jason1238]

EPC goes waaaay back, to 1970's or 60's, if not earlier.

The 1994-up warning is for the WIS, which you don't need. The W124 service manuals are online free at the same website. Or you can access them here with a much easier to use interface.

That link is a real gem gsxr! I tried to register on the MBStartek site, but it is anything but free...$60 for 24hrs?

Maybe I'm missing something...

 

[gsxr]

That link is a real gem gsxr! I tried to register on the MBStartek site, but it is anything but free...$60 for 24hrs?

Maybe I'm missing something...

Yeah, you need the WIS for newer models (i.e. 210, 211 chassis) and yes, the price is insane. And if you've never used the WIS, you would spend most of that 24 hours just trying to figure out how to use the blasted thing. You can buy the WIS on eBay and install it on your PC if you have a newer car that requires it.

The manuals for 107, 123, 124, and 201 chassis are free on that site... click link below, then "MB Workshop Resources" on left nav, then "Service Manual Library":
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/

Of course, they'd rather you pay to get the same info with 10x the effort via the WIS!

 

[nocfn]

I'm using EPC with latest version of Java no problem at all. Java is owned by my employer.

From EPC folks

We have received the following from our German colleagues.

“The Java Version 8 Update 72, 8 Update 74 and also 8 Update 77 contain a bug (introduced with update 72), So do not use the mentioned JRE Versions.
Please downgrade to JRE 8 Update 71.”

If you are still having an issue after downgrading Java, please try clearing the java cache as outlined in step 1 of the attached document. Please only follow step 1 at this time, but save the document as it may be needed if step 1 does not change the situation. Are you receiving any new error messages when attempting to launch the application? Please send a screen capture or detailed description of the error. What operating system, internet browser, and Java versions are in use on the computer?

Thank you,
EPCnet Online Support

http://bugs.java.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=8147920
https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8147920

http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/other_jreversions.xml

From: EPCnet_Online@mbusa.com [mailto:EPCnet_Online@mbusa.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 12:09 PM
To: EPCnet_Online (171-NPM)
Subject: Contact requested by subscriber.


Subject:
Site Error
Name:

Question:
cannot get EPCto load with the latest java 8 77 on windows 10.


If you are not the addressee, please inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail by mistake, and delete it. We thank you for your support.

 

[gerryvz]

I'm using Java 8 Update 73 on my Windows 8 work computer, and EPC has been running fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gerryvz]

And using same Java running on Windows XP on a virtual machine on my home Mac Pro.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jason1238]

I was able to clear all the broken bits of bolt(s) from the PS pump bracket and cylinder head. No boogered threads, and everything looks good. Doin' my happy dance now...

I think my past experiences with easy-outs went wrong because I was using cheap/worn out ones. My buddy the machinist lent me his extractor set, and it worked like a charm! Maybe I'm just getting a bit more patient as the years go on too? (in this case the word "patient" is pronounced "older and slower" )

Just gotta' get those bolts and get it all back together...thanks again to all for the help! Just getting the EPC and WIS links helped a TON! A picture is worth a thousand words as they say...

I'll keep updating as I go...

 

[Jason1238]

DONE!

I just have to say...WHAT A PAIN IN THE A$$ those four bolts on the back of the PS bracket are

I was able to get them all without coming in from the transmission though, with my son's help and a lot of patience. My hands and forearms look like I got in a fight with an angry cat (not the first time), but they'll heal.

To all who gave tips and advice:

 

[gerryvz]

From EPC folks

We have received the following from our German colleagues.

“The Java Version 8 Update 72, 8 Update 74 and also 8 Update 77 contain a bug (introduced with update 72), So do not use the mentioned JRE Versions.
Please downgrade to JRE 8 Update 71.”

If you are still having an issue after downgrading Java, please try clearing the java cache as outlined in step 1 of the attached document. Please only follow step 1 at this time, but save the document as it may be needed if step 1 does not change the situation. Are you receiving any new error messages when attempting to launch the application? Please send a screen capture or detailed description of the error. What operating system, internet browser, and Java versions are in use on the computer?

Thank you,
EPCnet Online Support

http://bugs.java.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=8147920
https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8147920

http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/other_jreversions.xml

From: EPCnet_Online@mbusa.com [mailto:EPCnet_Online@mbusa.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 12:09 PM
To: EPCnet_Online (171-NPM)
Subject: Contact requested by subscriber.


Subject:
Site Error
Name:

Question:
cannot get EPCto load with the latest java 8 77 on windows 10.


If you are not the addressee, please inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail by mistake, and delete it. We thank you for your support.

I just today updated my work computer to Java 8 Update 77. This is running on Windows 8.

Fired up the EPC with no problem whatsoever.

See attached screen shot.

 

[nocfn]

It's a win10 issue with embedded Java. I used epc suggested fix. I intend on the virtual machine route once I decriminalize an old (tech age old) laptop

 

[gsxr]

This is running on Windows 8.

EIGHT? *facepalm* Oh, Gerry... your street cred rating just went down a few notches...

 

[gsxr]

Pictures of a similar, but not identical, issue on my red 500E. Spotted this by accident while looking it over a couple weeks ago in preparation for taking the car out of storage, it had been inside under a cover for the past ~4 months. Glad I found it before the bolt fell out completely!

Not shown in the photo was the lower pump-to-bracket bolt also backing out, the other one would not have fallen out as it would have touched the back side of the pulley edge first. It was probably 2 turns loose. Had to remove belt, remove pulley, and tighten both up again. Now I'm tempted to drill the bolt heads and safety-wire the buggers!

 

[nocfn]

Blue loctite? Should we all consider it as a pm issue?

 

[gerryvz]

Yes, some red or blue Loctite would probably take care of that issue.

 

[nocfn]

I will be doing my short hose soon, so will do proactively