Proper wheel offeset on the 95 E-420

[Ascension]

A buddy of mine owns a small local tire wheel shop and yesterday told me he has an old set of mesh BBS like 15x8's that a factory rep gave him that supposedly fit a Benz.
These are BBS look alike Billet true 3 piece forged and SUPER light that have been sitting new in the box in the back of the shop for years.
My buddy threw a give away # at me and while I really wanted 16's really love the look on these so they are are worth a closer look.
Centers are Gold so I would pull them down and do a black satin center with ceracoat then reassemble them if I use them. I just want to make certain they will fit the car right not only in offset but hubs and other factors.
Give me a heads up on what to look for here guys on these.

 

[gsxr]

For an 8.0-inch wide wheel... you'll want an offset in the mid-30's. An offset closer to 40 may result in the wheel or tire hitting the strut tube up front, an offset near 30 or in the 20's will push them too far out and you'll get rubbing issues. A more critical problem will be clearance from the wheel spokes to the brake caliper. I'm assuming they are the proper 5x112 bolt pattern and you can get a hub ring for the correct 66.67mm center bore. And, you'll need custom length lug bolts, with a cone seat, unlike the factory ball seat.

DEFINITELY do a test fitment before buying!

 

[8899]

I think the best wheel upgrade for a '95 E420 would be the stock 16-inch 8-hole wheels used on the E500Es.

 

[Ascension]

For an 8.0-inch wide wheel... you'll want an offset in the mid-30's. An offset closer to 40 may result in the wheel or tire hitting the strut tube up front, an offset near 30 or in the 20's will push them too far out and you'll get rubbing issues. A more critical problem will be clearance from the wheel spokes to the brake caliper. I'm assuming they are the proper 5x112 bolt pattern and you can get a hub ring for the correct 66.67mm center bore. And, you'll need custom length lug bolts, with a cone seat, unlike the factory ball seat.

DEFINITELY do a test fitment before buying!

Good info and you bet on a test fit before buying. Would rather have 16's normally but these are SO super light + look great so they need a close look before I say no.
Will 225 50 x16's or 225 60x15's fit all around with the right wheel on these? That front clearance looks REALLY tight.

 

[gerryvz]

I think the best wheel upgrade for a '95 E420 would be the stock 16-inch 8-hole wheels used on the E500Es.

Are the stock 500E 8-hole wheels a bolt-on for the 400E/E420?

Would MB Evo IIs also be a bolt-on for the 400E/E420?

 

[M104-AMG]

I think the best wheel upgrade for a '95 E420 would be the stock 16-inch 8-hole wheels used on the E500Es.

If you run the stock 16x8 ET34 wheels from a W124 500E, or a R129 SL, and you run 225 or wider rubber, your rears, and sometimes your fronts, will RUB, if you drive aggressively, esp. on pot holes and big dips.

This is especially true for lowered cars and/or weak shocks.

Otherwise, they do bolt on, and give the non-500E's W124's a "plus 1" tire size.

If you can get the Euro 7.5x16 ET 41 8-hole wheels, they fit better, don't rub, and clear 500E ATE brake calipers (not 600SL calipers).

neil

 

[M104-AMG]

<SNIP>

Would MB Evo IIs also be a bolt-on for the 400E/E420?

The 7.5" wide EVO II's bolt-up no problem.

neil

 

[ccrelan]

Let's see some pictures of the wheels in question.

 

[8899]

If you run the stock 16x8 ET34 wheels from a W124 500E, or a R129 SL, and you run 225 or wider rubber, your rears, and sometimes your fronts, will RUB, if you drive aggressively, esp. on pot holes and big dips.

This is especially true for lowered cars and/or weak shocks.

Otherwise, they do bolt on, and give the non-500E's W124's a "plus 1" tire size.

This one is running on some pretty wide 18" rims:

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...995-E420-Black-Gray-140kmi-6850-(Brooklyn-NYC)

 

[Ascension]

This one is running on some pretty wide 18" rims:

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...995-E420-Black-Gray-140kmi-6850-(Brooklyn-NYC)

Like the look but how much work to pull off?? As in will it need stuff like spacers on the front fenders rolling the rear wells limiting the front travel and others?

 

[gsxr]

Like the look but how much work to pull off?? As in will it need stuff like spacers on the front fenders rolling the rear wells limiting the front travel and others?

That car has a very, very aggressive fitment. You not only need near-perfect offsets, you'll also need serious fender lip rolling, travel limiters, bumper/fender spacers, and probably under-sized tires (which IMO, half defeats the purpose of the wide wheels in the first place). As Neil mentioned above, if the car will be lowered and/or driven hard, the problems will increase dramatically. ANything larger than 8.0 wide front or rear is asking for trouble on an E420/400E / standard 124 chassis.

Totally depends if you want it just for looks and intend to drive like a blue-hair in FL, or if you want a hassle-free installation and driving experience.

 

[Ascension]

Anything larger than 8.0 wide front or rear is asking for trouble on an E420/400E / standard 124 chassis.

Totally depends if you want it just for looks and intend to drive like a blue-hair in FL, or if you want a hassle-free installation and driving experience.

I want a hassle free install and drive that performs as no I won't be driving it like some old blue hair or be styling on the cruse scene!! I also may have some weight in her at times on the road as I am a working musician (guitarist) so if going to a job would have a combo amp, pedal board gig bag and at least 2 guitars on my own if not a band-mate ( why do you think I had been driving a big Volvo WAGON ).
I have a set of 16x7 Voxx on the Volvo and have been pleased with them. They have a set in 16x7.5 that's close for the Benz but looking at all options.
Here is that set
http://www.voxxwheel.com/eng/wheels/euro-style/torino-2/

 

[KarlC]

I have a set of 16x7 Voxx on the Volvo and have been pleased with them. They have a set in 16x7.5 that's close for the Benz but looking at all options.
Here is that set
http://www.voxxwheel.com/eng/wheels/euro-style/torino-2/

Please dont put those wheels on a W124

 

[Ascension]

Please dont put those wheels on a W124

Then give me options for a 16 set up that I won't spend a huge amount of $ and time making fit as there does not seem to be much out there in the aftermarket that is not crazy on $$. It looks like grandmas grocery getter right now + the 195 15's that came on it were way undersized for this car and the power. I have 205x60x15's on her right now on the factory wheels but it looks weird to me as the rears look way to small in the wheel wells.

 

[gerryvz]

Evo IIs ... 17 inchers will really hop it up, and are VERY appropos for the W124.

The chicks dig 'em too.

 

[gsxr]

OE MB and AMG wheels can be had used, quite cheap... like, $300-$500 for a reasonably clean set, sometimes with usable rubber as a bonus. Add a couple hundred if you have to pay for shipping, but it's still likely to be cheaper than getting new aftermarket wheels. And, with MB/AMG wheels, there are zero issues with lug bolts, center bore, pattern, offset, etc which are usually ALL problems with aftermarket.

Get the factory CLK forged wheels (16 x 7.0 ET37) if you're into featherweights. At 14.0-14.5 pounds each, you're not going to find a lighter wheel, period. I have these on my current E420. They're not my favorite for looks, but after lifting one, I got over that fast.

Photos from Google... seems I don't have any pics of my cars with these wheels, d'oh!

 

[ccrelan]

http://www.foundadeal.com/ebay2/S124/11-08033.jpg

The CLKs are a great choice. These other W210 wheels are a very good option that can typically be found cheaper than the CLKs. They are 16x7.5 et 41.

 

[captruff]

I have a friend that has a set of take off clk wheels for sale. If interested I can get you pictures and price.

Jeff

 

[Stevester 500E]

What do you guys think of the 17" rims that come on the 2010 Mercedes c300 sport package?

Are they too modern?

 

[gsxr]

What do you guys think of the 17" rims that come on the 2010 Mercedes c300 sport package?

Are they too modern?

I believe those will not fit without spacers... offset is too high (ET50-ish?). Most of the newer wheels do not play nicely on 124's.

 

[Ascension]

Evo IIs ... 17 inchers will really hop it up, and are VERY appropos for the W124.

The chicks dig 'em too.

Keep in mind I have no experience with a Benz till now so I have no idea what style you are talking here. Please show me some photos.
Better yet is there a list of what will interchange to the W-124 platform without major mods in 16's or 17's ??

 

[Ascension]

I believe those will not fit without spacers... offset is too high (ET50-ish?). Most of the newer wheels do not play nicely on 124's.

So I understand and why I need some ideas here.

 

[Ascension]

What do you guys think of the 17" rims that come on the 2010 Mercedes c300 sport package?

Are they too modern?

I like that look.

 

[Ascension]

Evo IIs ... 17 inchers will really hop it up, and are VERY appropos for the W124.

The chicks dig 'em too.

Is this the wheel you are talking?
http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/loekaaz/media/WHEELS/20140312_171716_zpsf1ea2a0d.jpg.html

 

[gerryvz]

Yep

 

[ccrelan]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MERCEDE..._Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item53f939f024&vxp=mtr

 

[Ascension]

Yep

Are they a bolt on on the E-420 or will I have to space the front fenders and roll the rears?

 

[Ascension]

Right now I'm going to stand down on the wheels for this one. I need to know what will and won't fit so that if I stumble on something in at least a 16 I can jump but it won't be a priority for now. Right now it's gettinmg everything back to condition O in brakes, fluids, tune and in an hour or so doing a full suspension inspection on a lift then (hopefully) an alignment.
Biggest issue I have with the 15's is the lack or a good speed rated tire selection for her in sizes and types I actually want to run. A speed rate of T and 116 MPH or a V speed rate with only a 20K tread life just won't cut it for this car!!

 

[gerryvz]

Are they a bolt on on the E-420 or will I have to space the front fenders and roll the rears?

Your answer was posted earlier in the thread...

Would MB Evo IIs also be a bolt-on for the 400E/E420?

The 7.5" wide EVO II's bolt-up no problem.

neil

I think you're smart to hold off on the bling wheels, and get the mechanicals of the car baselined and in good condition. If you go with a 17" wheel (which is the size of the Evo II) there are plenty of good choices of tires out there to meet your needs.

Also like many folks here, I suggest you start an "OWNER - Ascension" thread in the "Owners and the Cars" sub-forum, so that you can document your progress with the car.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Ascension]

Your answer was posted earlier in the thread...





I think you're smart to hold off on the bling wheels, and get the mechanicals of the car baselined and in good condition. If you go with a 17" wheel (which is the size of the Evo II) there are plenty of good choices of tires out there to meet your needs.

Also like many folks here, I suggest you start an "OWNER - Ascension" thread in the "Owners and the Cars" sub-forum, so that you can document your progress with the car.

Cheers,
Gerry

Thanks and will do on the "owner thread" still finding my way around the forum.
Not looking just for Bling on the wheel change. The car is shall we say exciting in the wet with these little bitty tires ( currently 205x60x15's) + the speed rating issue and lack of selection on 15's is only going to get worse. Need to go to at least 16's if not 17's at some point for more reasons than appearance alone.

 

[KarlC]

OE MB and AMG wheels can be had used, quite cheap... like, $300-$500 for a reasonably clean set, sometimes with usable rubber as a bonus. Add a couple hundred if you have to pay for shipping, but it's still likely to be cheaper than getting new aftermarket wheels. And, with MB/AMG wheels, there are zero issues with lug bolts, center bore, pattern, offset, etc which are usually ALL problems with aftermarket.

Get the factory CLK forged wheels (16 x 7.0 ET37) if you're into featherweights. At 14.0-14.5 pounds each, you're not going to find a lighter wheel, period. I have these on my current E420. They're not my favorite for looks, but after lifting one, I got over that fast.

Photos from Google... seems I don't have any pics of my cars with these wheels, d'oh!

This is what you should be looking for and most of us would be more that happy to help you find some nice looking wheels that fit the W124 when you are ready.

Sorry but the Voxx wheels you linked would be more for a lowered Chevy.

 

[doolar]

7,5 inch Evo2`s would NOT clear my stock front calipers on my 1994 E420. Probably will clear on earlier models with smaller brakes. Don't ask me how I know...

 

[gsxr]

7,5 inch Evo2`s would NOT clear my stock front calipers on my 1994 E420. Probably will clear on earlier models with smaller brakes. Don't ask me how I know...

The factory 7.5-inch Evo wheels should clear the factory brakes on the USA-spec E420, which has 294x25 front calipers.

They will NOT clear the 320x30 front brakes used on the late Euro-spec E420 (or any 500E/E500 brakes).

 

[Ascension]

To me the CLK forged wheels are hideous look like some thing of an old dirt track car or some thing in aluminum instead of steel.

Sorry but the Voxx wheels you linked would be more for a lowered Chevy.

Got close to the same set of Voxx's on my Volvo ( which is about as hard to fit as the E-420 is) and it was another world from the HEAVY stockers in the way the car rode responded and handled getting all that unsprung weight off it.
Dude this is a LONG way from a look for a lowered chevy!!

]

 

[M104-AMG]

The factory 7.5-inch Evo wheels should clear the factory brakes on the USA-spec E420, which has 294x25 front calipers.

They will NOT clear the 320x30 front brakes used on the late Euro-spec E420 (or any 500E/E500 brakes).

Finding 7.5" wide wheels with just enough back-spacing to not only clear early 500E ATE calipers, but NOT cause rubbing issues with 225-235 rubber is a PITA.

However, there are two known (because I have them) Mercedes OE wheels that do:
1) 7.5x16 ET41 8-hole wheels (Euro W210's);
2) 7.5x17 ET37 5-spoke incenio designer wheels (on the 360TE AMG wagon now)

The incenio's just BARELY clears 500E calipers, but it does clear by 2-3mm!

neil

 

[ccrelan]

Got close to the same set of Voxx's on my Volvo ( which is about as hard to fit as the E-420 is) and it was another world from the HEAVY stockers in the way the car rode responded and handled getting all that unsprung weight off it.

Your question was answered by many people in this thread. It is not difficult to find inexpensive OEM Benz 16" wheels to fit your car.

 

[gsxr]

Finding 7.5" wide wheels with just enough back-spacing to not only clear early 500E ATE calipers, but NOT cause rubbing issues with 225-235 rubber is a PITA.

With narrow wheels, you can get away with a pretty wide range of offsets that will work (although some may look better than others).

As the wheel gets wider, the acceptable offset range gets very limited, and often the aftermarket wheels do not have the offset needed.

Like Cory stated above... best to stick with factory OE/MB wheels. Most will work great, just stay away from all S-class wheels (wrong size bolt hole and offset), and be really careful with anything newer than mid-2000's (either the offset is too high, or they have M14 holes, requiring custom lugs).

 

[Ascension]

Your question was answered by many people in this thread. It is not difficult to find inexpensive OEM Benz 16" wheels to fit your car.

Keep in mind this one is a 95 420 not a 500. Seems most I see in OEM I like the look of will require fender spacers and well rolling in the rear. The exceptions so far may well be the EVO II's and 16 inch 8 holes. I have no issue staying with the 8 holes like the 15's I have in a set of 16's as long as they will fit a set of 225 50's with no mods due to clearance issues.
The major issue I have with the stockers is in the 15 inch sizes and that there is an increasingly small selection of tires with a speed rating I want to run on this car.
On another note the calipers in front with my stock 8 holes are REALLY tight to the wheel. Are the calipers different on the 500 from the 420?

 

[Ascension]

Finding 7.5" wide wheels with just enough back-spacing to not only clear early 500E ATE calipers, but NOT cause rubbing issues with 225-235 rubber is a PITA.

However, there are two known (because I have them) Mercedes OE wheels that do:
1) 7.5x16 ET41 8-hole wheels (Euro W210's);
neil

The 7.5x16 ET41 8 holes may be what I look for as they look dead on the stockers and get me the +1 I want/need here.
Need to be really clear on this that from what you have seen these are a safe bet for running a 225x50x16 on a 95 E-420 with no mods?

 

[gsxr]

Keep in mind this one is a 95 420 not a 500. Seems most I see in OEM I like the look of will require fender spacers and well rolling in the rear. The exceptions so far may well be the EVO II's and 16 inch 8 holes. I have no issue staying with the 8 holes like the 15's I have in a set of 16's as long as they will fit a set of 225 50's with no mods due to clearance issues.

The 16" 8-hole (500E wheels) will require spacers and rolling, they are a moderately aggressive fitment. The 7.5" Evo's would work better and may require little, if any, modification.

On another note the calipers in front with my stock 8 holes are REALLY tight to the wheel. Are the calipers different on the 500 from the 420?

Yes, the 500 has larger calipers which require 16" wheel diameter. The wheel to caliper air gap can be as small as ~2mm.

 

[Ascension]

The 16" 8-hole (500E wheels) will require spacers and rolling, they are a moderately aggressive fitment. The 7.5" Evo's would work better and may require little, if any, modification.



Yes, the 500 has larger calipers which require 16" wheel diameter. The wheel to caliper air gap can be as small as ~2mm.

Got it then it looks like I will be looking for the EVO's then.
On another note bro I notice all the stuff on Slash's band in your videos.
I'm a musician and a personal friend of mine sang on the 1st Snake Pit record in Eric Dover.

 

[gsxr]

The 7.5x16 ET41 8 holes may be what I look for as they look dead on the stockers and get me the +1 I want/need here.
Need to be really clear on this that from what you have seen these are a safe bet for running a 225x50x16 on a 95 E-420 with no mods?

That wheel size is ideal and would work great... but it's not an easy wheel to find. Also, I would run 215/55/16, not 225/50/16, but that's just my preference. Fender lip rolling is more likely to be needed with the 225/50 setup. The Eastwood roller has received good reviews.

Note that most 16" MB wheels that are 7.5" wide tend to be around 20-22 lbs each. The 17x7.5 MB/AMG wheels are a few pounds more, generally 22-25 lbs... it varies with different styles of course.

Don't forget to look for light weight tires as well. Continental DW and DWS are my current favorites for performance, price, and light weight. If you buy the wrong tires, you can erase all the savings gained from buying light wheels...

 

[Ascension]

That wheel size is ideal and would work great... but it's not an easy wheel to find. Also, I would run 215/55/16, not 225/50/16, but that's just my preference. Fender lip rolling is more likely to be needed with the 225/50 setup. The Eastwood roller has received good reviews.

Note that most 16" MB wheels that are 7.5" wide tend to be around 20-22 lbs each. The 17x7.5 MB/AMG wheels are a few pounds more, generally 22-25 lbs... it varies with different styles of course.

Don't forget to look for light weight tires as well. Continental DW and DWS are my current favorites for performance, price, and light weight. If you buy the wrong tires, you can erase all the savings gained from buying light wheels...

Wow that's REALLY HEAVY on those wheels!! The 16x7.5 Voxx set on my Volvo are right at 14 lbs each and are running a set of Pirelli P5's in 205x55x16. The whole wheel tire set up is not much more weight than the MB wheels by themselves!!

 

[Klink]

That wheel size is ideal and would work great... but it's not an easy wheel to find. Also, I would run 215/55/16, not 225/50/16, but that's just my preference. Fender lip rolling is more likely to be needed with the 225/50 setup. The Eastwood roller has received good reviews.

Note that most 16" MB wheels that are 7.5" wide tend to be around 20-22 lbs each. The 17x7.5 MB/AMG wheels are a few pounds more, generally 22-25 lbs... it varies with different styles of course.

Don't forget to look for light weight tires as well. Continental DW and DWS are my current favorites for performance, price, and light weight. If you buy the wrong tires, you can erase all the savings gained from buying light wheels...

Ditto on the 215 / 55. It works.

 

[Klink]

Gotta go! I'll talk more later.
Best!

 

[gsxr]

Remember not to trust mfr's claims for weights. Gotta use a calibrated digital scale, like a refrigerant scale, something accurate within 1%. I've seen all kinds of crazy claims on weights that often end up being incorrect.

I would also be very nervous about any aftermarket wheel which is super-light AND inexpensive...

 

[KarlC]

Remember not to trust mfr's claims for weights. Gotta use a calibrated digital scale, like a refrigerant scale, something accurate within 1%. I've seen all kinds of crazy claims on weights that often end up being incorrect.

I would also be very nervous about any aftermarket wheel which is super-light AND inexpensive...

+1 on this, I bought a used set of Voxx wheels once, when I opened the box and pick one up I put it back in the box and sold them. It was crazy heavy, I know not all Voxx wheels are the same, but don't automatically trust what they say.

 

[M104-AMG]

Finding 7.5" wide wheels with just enough back-spacing to not only clear early 500E ATE calipers, but NOT cause rubbing issues with 225-235 rubber is a PITA.

However, there are two known (because I have them) Mercedes OE wheels that do:
1) 7.5x16 ET41 8-hole wheels (Euro W210's);
2) 7.5x17 ET37 5-spoke incenio designer wheels (on the 360TE AMG wagon now)

The incenio's just BARELY clears 500E calipers, but it does clear by 2-3mm!

neil

I really don't like the "B" number for the 7.5x16 ET41 8-hole wheels, because most interchanges show this wheel from a W140, which doesn't have the proper offset. That is, when you ask the seller for the pn# on the wheel, the majority of them start with "140".

Attached are pics of the PROPER W210 8-hole wheels that I run on the wife's wagon. 225/50R16 rubber, with no rubbing- pun intended.

PN# 2104010702

neil

 

[Ascension]

+1 on this, I bought a used set of Voxx wheels once, when I opened the box and pick one up I put it back in the box and sold them. It was crazy heavy, I know not all Voxx wheels are the same, but don't automatically trust what they say.

I don't just trust what they say without experience. I have a very similar Voxx set on the Volvo to the set I am looking at. They really weigh in at right under 15 lbs and have been running on the car for 7 years now and gone through 2 sets of P-5's with no issues at all. That's 7 years of running to gigs with a load of gear and some times several band mates in the car and also using it like a truck to transport firewood ect so---.
Swapping to these made a HUGE difference in the ride and handling on that car ( I went from from the stock 15's to the Voxx 16's just like I would on the E-420) to do a + 1 and also get all that unsprung weight off it. Seemed logical I would see the same results with the E-420.
That was why I looked at the Voxx stuff first because I have some experience with living with them for a number of years on another euro car. Would use a similar 5 spoke in gunmetal gray to what is on the Volvo on the green 420 if I went that rout.
This is the look tires would be W rated Continental Extreme contacts in 215x55x16. It's more than just the cheap price as I know what to expect in running these from years of experience with a similar set on the Volvo. Not married to this but it is an option.

This is the set Voxx on the Volvo also in 16x7.5 with a set of 205x55x16 P5's

 

[sheward]

I really don't like the "B" number for the 7.5x16 ET41 8-hole wheels, because most interchanges show this wheel from a W140, which doesn't have the proper offset. That is, when you ask the seller for the pn# on the wheel, the majority of them start with "140".

Attached are pics of the PROPER W210 8-hole wheels that I run on the wife's wagon. 225/50R16 rubber, with no rubbing- pun intended.

PN# 2104010702

neil

As a side note, the offset on the 140 wheel is 51. As Dave said, these require custom bolts. However I now know that with a 10mm spacer the set I have been saving will work on the 124 coupe i'd like to get some day. Thanks, Neil.

drew