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Transmission questions on 93 500E
- Thread starter oaklandw124
- Start date
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Forgive me for being illiterate about this interwebb stuff. Remember, I was the one disappointed to learn that "Broadband" wasn't Courtney Love's new group, so please translate your little symbol there for me...
Just FYI. The kickdown switch takes a LOT of pressure to click in & out with your fingers. Press the pedal with your foot (with engine off) and you should very clearly feel it click on & off at WOT. If it was stuck on, the trans would probably not upshift out of first gear; it would be liking having the shifter in "B" position all the time.
Thanks for the overnight posts. This morning, I went used my foot to test the kickdown switch and it seems to work as it's supposed to. I didn't press hard enough with my fingers last night. Rats! Was hoping it was something simple. I will still disconnect it from the transmission and see what happens.
I am still thinking about that T connection in the engine bay that looks like it is from the FGSmodule.com site. If the mystery box is indeed a W126 FGS, why would I also have that T connector?
Dammit, I may have PE! That's premature elation over the repair, don't misunderstand...
Oh well, obviously gsxr has a lot more experience with this repair over the phone thing and realized you probably just were not pressing the switch hard enough. The switch still could be shorted inside and causing your problem though. Bear that in mind in case we wind up circling back around to it. In the meantime job one is still figuring out if this problem is due to the kickdown solenoid being powered up when it should not be. That sounds to me like your most likely problem. Unplug the kickdown solenoid at the right rear of the transmission housing and see how it drives. It has a single wire with a rubber bodied plug. Firmly grasp the plug housing and pull it out of the kickdown solenoid.
IMO that is the next step to take period. There is no point in worrying about all these other apparently unconnected and unused umbilicals until it is determined whether power is reaching the solenoid when it shouldn't be. That is the high-value question to have answered here. Until you know the answer to that particular question there probably isn't anything else worth doing yet.
Somebody get me a rag, I gotta clean this mess up...
Best of luck!
Klink
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I just crawled under the car. When you say right rear, should i be looking on the passenger side? I see one rubber bodied plug, right behind the transmission pan, but the wire goes to a bolt on the chassis.
PM me your email address and I'll send you a couple of pictures immediately ! I won't be able to post them on this computer !
I'm happy to report that my transmission is shifting much better. It seems, at least for now, that the kick down switch under the pedal was the culprit. When I said it was stuck because I couldn't depress it with my hand, and then Dave said I might need more pressure than that (like my foot), I went back and pressed it a couple of times. After the third or fourth time, I heard a louder click. Got in the car and drove it and it shifts much better...minimal flare on 2-3 and 3-4 does not require the engine to be over 3000 rpm. Thinking I will probably order a kick down switch.
What do you guys think about that W126 FGS? Should I leave it in or pull the plug?
Can't thank all of you guys enough...have a great weekend.
What do you guys think about that W126 FGS? Should I leave it in or pull the plug?
Can't thank all of you guys enough...have a great weekend.
I'd leave your FGS hooked up, especially if it seems like it's working ok. Also, depending on how it's wired, simply unplugging it may leave you with no KD function at all. Glad it all worked out. I was already confident from the start that it wasn't an expensive "transmission problem", and was about a 99 percenter that it was just the KD solenoid powered up when it shouldn't be. The only real question I had was what was doing the "powering" so to speak.
Thanks for the 928 pics. Love those things. BTW, your other MB is another serious all time favorite also. The 140 is as underrated as some chassis are overrated (don't ask me, I aint goin' there..). Not that any MBs really suck, for the most part I'd rather push any broken MB than drive most other cars. A perfect, massively loaded 5 liter 140 is a bucket list car for me. They are all just so beat to death though, these days...
Thanks for the 928 pics. Love those things. BTW, your other MB is another serious all time favorite also. The 140 is as underrated as some chassis are overrated (don't ask me, I aint goin' there..). Not that any MBs really suck, for the most part I'd rather push any broken MB than drive most other cars. A perfect, massively loaded 5 liter 140 is a bucket list car for me. They are all just so beat to death though, these days...
v nice 928, great color.
Pretty car, but that doesn't look like Detroit in the background.
Yeah, I neglected to mention that the color rocks like Elvis (Costello, and that's even better IMO).
Thanks, Maui. No, that picture isn't from Detroit. PO was in Arizona.
Klink, I completely agree with you about the W140. Mine has 89k on it, but it is not a run down car by any means. Interior is in excellent shape and so is the body. These cars drive down the orad like no other. Smooth and super quiet.
Kick down switch was replaced, but the trans is still acting up once in a while. I don't think it completely fixed it. One question, when you are at a stop and then accelerate, do you get a lot of engine noise at first and then when it shifts into third, the engine kind of quiets down?
Klink, I completely agree with you about the W140. Mine has 89k on it, but it is not a run down car by any means. Interior is in excellent shape and so is the body. These cars drive down the orad like no other. Smooth and super quiet.
Kick down switch was replaced, but the trans is still acting up once in a while. I don't think it completely fixed it. One question, when you are at a stop and then accelerate, do you get a lot of engine noise at first and then when it shifts into third, the engine kind of quiets down?
UPDATE. I may have two FGS modules in this car. I disconnected the W126 module I found underneath the dash...this had two wires going to the child windows switch. Then I tried to disconnect the T connection that Dave showed a picture of in post #28. But, the car still starts in 1st gear. I could not locate the computer board/box (also pictured in post #28) that the FGS module supposedly comes with. Does anyone have experience with this module and how to definitely disconnect it?
Quick update. I unplugged the W126 FGS and the other FGS module that 2phast referenced(my car actually had both installed). Now, when I put the car in D, i still get the 2-3 flare and the 3-4 not wanting to shift until after 3000 rpm. However, if I put the trans in B position and then right back in D the car starts in 1st but goes nicely through the gears(no flare and will shift from 3-4 below 3000rpm) and will continue to operate that way until I shut the car off. Then , it reverts back to starting in 2nd with the flare to 3rd and only shifting to 4th after 3000 rpm. Anything else to check?
Review the earlier threads and discussions on this particular topic with your car. That sounds exactly, and I mean exactly like a stuck or shorted kickdown switch under the gas pedal.
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Update. Replaced gas pedal kick down switch and car is still acting the same. As I am trying to find out the best way to remove the FGS module that is in the car, I found this green wire that was cut. It originates behind the brake booster. Does anyone know if what this wire is and if it is factory?
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If its not too much trouble, take a photo of the opening in your shift gate, particularly in the rearmost position where the "B" position switch is. If the B position flipper is displaced, the kickdown solenoid will be permenantly energized, and the car will behave exactly as you describe.
Here are some pics. You will see the red and blue wires...these came from the W126 First Gear Start module that I removed. Let me know if I didn't get the right shot angle. Also, one pic of the 500E with the Evo's.
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Did the pics help at all, Klink?
Yes. I wanted to make sure that the flip switch for the "B" position wasn't out of position, and it is not. If you want to, you can flip it back and forth a time or two, and see if that produces any result. However at this point, like you, I suspect your FGS module as well. I would give you detailed instrtuctions on removing it, but I am not familliar with how they are wired in. Once again, to test the theory, go underneath and unplug the electrical connection on the kickdown solenoid. If your symptoms stay away, then it is very likely that your FGS module is the culptit.
? and 
? thoughts?
I was able to (finally) disconnect the electrical connection on the kickdown solenoid. All trans issues have gone away...Yes! So, do I just leave that connection unplugged or should I start working backwards to finding the cause. I'm guessing I should replace the kickdown solenoid first? Thanks for all of the help!
That is good progress! And it confirms what Klink suspected. With the wire disconnected, this proves the solenoid is good both mechanically and electrically (otherwise, there would be no change). Time to start working backward to trace the cause upstream.
No, you should not replace the kickdown solenoid. The very thing that we have just proven is that the kickdown solenoid works. The problem is being caused by the kickdown solenoid having voltage applied to it when it should be de-energized. That is either being caused by a short circuit to positive voltage somewhere in the wiring, and/or a malfunctioning first gear start contraption. Since you have already uncovered evidence that at least two of these first gear start systems are, or were in your car, that is the likely place to start. There is also a small but not zero chance that the "B position" electrical switch is permanently applied due to an internal or external fault. Internal, as in the switch could be defective inside, or external, as in it is mis-installed in the shfter housing and/or something is jamming it.
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Quick question...can I drive the car with the kickdown solenoid unplugged if it rains? Will water cause any issues?
You can. After you repair the actual "upstream" malfunction, make sure you clean out the male and female plug connections of the kickdown solenoid with a little bit of compressed air before you reinstall it, and you'll probably be fine. I would make sure the electrical pigtail is tie-wired safely up out of the way of splash water and road hazards while it is disconnected.
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Thanks,Klink!
You might want to clean the connections with more than compressed air. Try some electrical connection spray cleaner to get any grime that might be on the connections.
