Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

[e300d]

Hi Glen

I think I will get a new one indeed. Nissen or Behr...http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Behr/Radiator/W0133-1598786.html

But yeah what a night.
Funny part was, I called my wife out of the house to take car for a ride around the block

We left the driveway and that was it! Bang click click and lots of steam !

Mind you, I have had this car since last December and I am just now, slowly working on it. It has been sitting in my garage.

I just did spark plugs and filters...Next up is cap n rotors.

I also had to replace the ASR charge accumulator and run new brake lines.

So I am sad how my night ended LOL. But I did go for a good rip and OH MY GOD! This machine is fast! Mind you I am driving a Jetta TDI as daily with 90hp.

Anyways...

 

[Glen]

Autohausaz.com is even less: http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...=1992&cid=16@Cooling System&gid=2172@Radiator

 

[e300d]

Autohausaz.com is even less: http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...=1992&cid=16@Cooling System&gid=2172@Radiator

Wow good deal! Problem is I live in Canada...shipping and customs might kill deal...unless I ship to my hotel in US where I stay for work..
Called my supplier in town...
Looks like he wants - 221 for rad (does not know brand of rad)

and 106+ tax for the fan clutch, also unaware of brand. After reading posts here, looks like some fan clutches are better than others....

 

[Glen]

Hmm, shipping may be an issue. The ACM clutches have been getting positive reviews. I recently put one in my car and it's been fine, although it hasn't been in very long.

 

[gsxr]

I've seen that failure mode before. I wonder if someone had previously tried modifying the bimetal strip or the brackets which hold it in place. If the brackets are bent forward a bit, the strip can pop ou and cause the mess you see in the pics above. Not fun. It's pretty rare, thankfully, and I'm not sure it's possibly on an untouched clutch. The Sachs clutch is preferred for replacement, if you can stomach the cost. ACM is second choice, make sure you also get the shorter bolt, or have the tools to cut the stock bolt.

BTW - get the Behr radiator, not Nissens... $240 CAD doesn't sound bad to me.

 

[NIGHT RAIDER]

I've seen that failure mode before. I wonder if someone had previously tried modifying the bimetal strip or the brackets which hold it in place. If the brackets are bent forward a bit, the strip can pop ou and cause the mess you see in the pics above. Not fun. It's pretty rare, thankfully, and I'm not sure it's possibly on an untouched clutch. The Sachs clutch is preferred for replacement, if you can stomach the cost. ACM is second choice, make sure you also get the shorter bolt, or have the tools to cut the stock bolt.

BTW - get the Behr radiator, not Nissens... $240 CAD doesn't sound bad to me.

yes i tried modifying the bimetal strip,i bent the brackets,its nice the tempresure will not go above 85 while driving in summer with ac and speed,and 95 while stopping even with 50 out side temp,but take care first time i damage the radiator cause the bimetal strip from brackets and touch the radiator,just need alittle bent.

 

[e300d]

You guys are great!

Wow so there is chance that someone messed with the fan clutch to make it engage earlier...hmmm figures as the p.o. drove a lot in city traffic..

The rad is not that costly. Sucks I need to dump$ into something that should have been fine....oh well.

I did read your post Dave in regards to shorter bolts.

Thanks again

 

[clarkz71]

There seems to be confusion on the fan clutch cut in temp.

This is from the 400E/500E introduction manual from 1992

 

[gerryvz]

There seems to be confusion on the fan clutch cut in temp.

This is from the 400E/500E introduction manual from 1992

GSXR? I'm not getting involved on this one.....

 

[gsxr]

There seems to be confusion on the fan clutch cut in temp.

This is from the 400E/500E introduction manual from 1992

All the factory docs for fan clutch operation, across several different engines, is highly questionable. Some of it is flat out wrong. See this PDF with some of the errors.

The 124.034/.036 clutch was moved 8mm closer to the engine (relative to the R129/W140 clutch) and the front plastic cover was changed to fully open instead of swiss-cheesed, but the actual engagement temp should not change as the bimetal strip appears to be identical for both the 119-200-01-22 (W124) and 119-200-00-22 (R129/W140) M119.96/.97 Sachs fan clutches.

I have seen very, very different fan clutch engagement between different clutches, even on the same car. I have a theory that the original factory clutches through ~1995 engaged at a lower temp, and newer clutches were manufactured using the erroneous data explained in the PDF above, as most new clutches do not engage until the temps are too high. I can't prove this of course, and I've only got maybe 8-10 total data points (testing different clutches), but the more I test the more it seems my theory might hold water. (Or it could all be hot air.)

 

[gsxr]

Remember that the fan clutch engages based on air temp, not engine coolant temp, although the two are related. In some cases, particularly with low ambient air temps and high engine temps, the clutch may not engage despite high coolant temps. This is only mentioned in the M117.96x engine manual see the note at the bottom of page 5 in this PDF (FSM).

This would be an unusual condition though, most of us are dealing with issues in high ambient temps (i.e. 90-100°F in summer with AC on).

 

[clarkz71]

Just passing along factory documentation that claims the clutch
was changed from the W140 when modified for the W124.

As a side note, my 400E runs dead on 80°c by the gauge and scanner.

The 119.960 is another version, the fan clutch specs for that don't apply.

Only 119.974/119975 as used in the W124

Even 119.97X in the W140 is different according to MB. Again, just passing along what I've seen.

 

[gsxr]

As a side note, my 400E runs dead on 80°c by the gauge and scanner.

Mine too, usually parked a needle width above the 80°C line on the gauge, scanner reads the same.

The 119.960 is another version, the fan clutch specs for that don't apply.

119.960 clutch is 119-200-00-22 and is also used on the W140/R129 with LH (119.970, 119.972).

Only 119.974/119975 as used in the W124. Even 119.97X in the W140 is different according to MB. Again, just passing along what I've seen.

Yes, the 119.974/119.975 clutch is unique to those two models, the main difference is the change in the blade mounting position (moved back for more clearance to the radiator), and the different black plastic protective cover. Otherwise, they have the same internals, same bimetal strip, etc. I've had the side by side for comparison.

 

[clarkz71]

Mine too, usually parked a needle width above the 80°C line on the gauge, scanner reads the same.

119.960 clutch is 119-200-00-22 and is also used on the W140/R129 with LH (119.970, 119.972).

Right, but the 970/971 is not used in a 124, so ...................00-22 isn't 01-22

And my current clutch is a Febi ACM from 2009. Box actually said made in Germany.

 

[gsxr]

Right, but the 970/971 is not used in a 124, so ...................00-22 isn't 01-22.

Correct. I described the differences above.

 

[clarkz71]

Right, the good news is older febi/ACM clutch on my 400E is 2 years old and working perfect.

Appears I got a good one.

 

[gerryvz]

FEBI circa 2009 and circa 2013 are VERY different animals..... back then the Febi Russian Roulette game was only one or two rounds in the chamber.

Now it's 4 rounds, minimum.

 

[Christian_K]

I used FEBI recently for my CL55 AMGs Flex discs (OEM ~300€/piece) as the price was only 1/3rd of MB which is significant. Guess what arrived in the FEBI box? SGF Flexdisc with MB Logo and Part-Nr. ;-)

 

[gsxr]

I used FEBI recently for my CL55 AMGs Flex discs (OEM ~300€/piece) as the price was only 1/3rd of MB which is significant. Guess what arrived in the FEBI box? SGF Flexdisc with MB Logo and Part-Nr. ;-)

You got the empty chamber... that time. (I also got an SGF disc in a Febi box, documented on my site.)

Gotta ask yourself... do you feel... lucky?

 

[clarkz71]

FEBI circa 2009 and circa 2013 are VERY different animals..... back then the Febi Russian Roulette game was only one or two rounds in the chamber.

Now it's 4 rounds, minimum.

Very true, that's why I mentioned the year I bought it,
not to confuse members about the current crap febi parts.

 

[gerryvz]

Very true, that's why I mentioned the year I bought it,
not to confuse members about the current crap febi parts.

You certainly dodged a bullet on that one, fer shure !!

 

[clarkz71]

Don't I know it, the OE Sachs was ridiculous price wise even with my employee
discount at the dealer. Cost +10% was still around $400. I got the ACM for $110.

Figured I'd try it, if it failed then I would go OE.

 

[samiam44]

"discount at the dealer. Cost +10% was still around $400. I got the ACM for $110.

Figured I'd try it, if it failed then I would go OE."

I had that thinking too, but you must think a bit deeper into it. If the clutch fails- and comes apart, then you have lost the radiator and fan too which is another $250 for the radiator plus the cost of a fan blade.



Michael

 

[clarkz71]

Right, the good news is older febi/ACM clutch on my 400E is 2 years old and working perfect.

Appears I got a good one.

And my current clutch is a Febi ACM from 2009. Box actually said made in Germany.

I had that thinking too, but you must think a bit deeper into it. If the clutch fails- and comes apart, then you have lost the radiator and fan too which is another $250 for the radiator plus the cost of a fan blade.



Michael

You may have missed my earlier post's.

My ACM clutch is from 2009, still made in Germany back then

Been on since September 2011, so over 2 years and functions better then OE Sachs.

And it has been tested hard, I run my engine to redline everyday. Fan disengages 3500-4000 rpm

Would I buy and use one now, no way. That's why I bought the 119.985 fan support.

See my other thread.

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...rnator-support-bracket-conversion-for-974-975

 

[gsxr]

My ACM clutch was purchased in 2009 and it said "acm Germany" all over the box and labels, but nowhere did it actually say "MADE IN Germany". Actual country of manufacture on mine is unknown. Meyle pulls the same trick and puts "Germany" in their labels, but that doesn't indicate where it was made.

The bearing on my ACM clutch (with April 2009 date code) was clearly marked "China". Photos below.

 

[clarkz71]

My ACM clutch was purchased in 2009 and it said "acm Germany" all over the box and labels, but nowhere did it actually say "MADE IN Germany". Actual country of manufacture on mine is unknown. Meyle pulls the same trick and puts "Germany" in their labels, but that doesn't indicate where it was made.

The bearing on my ACM clutch (with April 2009 date code) was clearly marked "China". Photos below.

I see that, but my ACM was in a Febi box and the
clutch said "made in Germany"

Was it bullshit? Maybe, but it's not excessively noisy and works great.

After 2 years, it was a great $100 spent.

 

[gsxr]

I see that, but my ACM was in a Febi box and the clutch said "made in Germany"

Was it bullshit? Maybe, but it's not excessively noisy and works great.

Strange. Next time you have yours out, take a peek at the bearing and see what it says. My ACM worked fine, although it remained coupled a good 1000rpm beyond the Sachs. It was used on the E420 that I sold a couple years ago though, so I can't do further testing on it.

 

[clarkz71]

Well I do remember the bearing seal being orange like yours, so you may be right.

All the more reason for my 985 swap, get an OEM Sachs clutch on there just in case.

 

[gerryvz]

Is ACM the new Yurro?

 

[clarkz71]

Is ACM the new Yurro?

It is now from what I hear.

The last few years, Febi, Meyle, URO are all crap.

Sent from my SPH-M930BST using Tapatalk 2

 

[gerryvz]

Yes IMHO they should all be moved to the "Do not Buy" list bet there are a few die-hards who want
To keep these brands on the "Just OK" list.

But, it's better then the situation over at PeachParts and Banzworld, where URO actually has an outright cheering section


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gsxr]

I think the ACM clutch is still ok for a tight budget. I have not yet heard of any catastrophic failures. However, those might be coming in the next few years. I guess time will tell.

The ACM M119 clutch was definitely better than the Vemo, which never would decouple at high RPM, or at least it was still engaged at >5000rpm. That one scared me. I would NOT use a Vemo clutch on the M119.

 

[clarkz71]

But, it's better then the situation over at PeachParts and Banzworld, where URO actually has an outright cheering section

You wouldn't believe the wack jobs over ther that
actually brag about using URO parts and how much they save.

Sent from my SPH-M930BST using Tapatalk 2

 

[gerryvz]

You wouldn't believe the wack jobs over ther that
actually brag about using URO parts and how much they save.

Sent from my SPH-M930BST using Tapatalk 2

Oh, I WOULD believe it. I DO believe it.
For I am the chief troll jihadist against URO parts and their ilk, over on PeachParts.

 

[clarkz71]

Oh, I WOULD believe it. I DO believe it.
For I am the chief troll jihadist against URO parts and their ilk, over on PeachParts.

Yeah, I'm the ÜRO parts Police over on, what did you call it? Oh yeah, Banzworld.

 

[gerryvz]

what did you call it? Oh yeah, Banzworld.

Yes, Banzworld. As I was permanently banned from that site, hence the name.

 

[clarkz71]

Yes, Banzworld. As I was permanently banned from that site, hence the name.

YOU got banned?? I find that hard to believe. You seem like a level headed intellegent guy.

What did you get banned for? Has to be good.

 

[gerryvz]

Clark,

It's all here: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1216-Anyone-having-trouble-lately-with-Benzworld-org

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/open-discussion/338181-benz-world-any-fans.html

Actually no, I was very recently called a "totally unhinged troll" by Jim B. (aka "Cascade" on the Banzworld 126 forum) on PeachParts. The stories that I link to over on Banzworld, from Jim B and his pals, are (IMHO) now all-time classics in the annals of Mercedes-Benz related forums.

When I was banned from Benzworld, I issued a fatwa (judgement or legal interpretation according to Islamic law) and declared jihad (against that site, and its administrators), which I have vociferously maintained since.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[clarkz71]

Classic stuff.

 

[samiam44]

Jono said he's seen even the Sach ones come apart- he was guessing the failure mode was a bad bearing induced vibration, then they threw the blade. Yikes!
He said 19!!!

Michael

 

[clarkz71]

No part is failure proof, that's why you need to inspect underhood components now and again.

That bad fan clutch bearing would have had play that could be felt.

 

[samiam44]

Absolutely.. but if the failure is fatigue, you will have no warning.

I'm going to buy the Horton clutch from Horton...

 

[clarkz71]

Sachs & Horton are both OE Benz.

You could get either one from parts.com

No telling which it will be, or which is better.

Personally, I have never seen a OE Sachs clutch fail, other then wearing out
and not cooling the engine.

 

[clarkz71]

Sachs # 2100 013 032

 

[samiam44]

Clark,

Do you know if there is a washer under the allen(SHCS) bolt head?

 

[clarkz71]

Clark,

Do you know if there is a washer under the allen(SHCS) bolt head?

If you mean the center fan clutch bolt, no. (#20)

The 4 fan bolts, yes. (#8-#11)

 

[samiam44]

Center bolt is what I meant?

I don't see a washer...

 

[gerryvz]

I just recently removed the fan clutch center bolt on my wife's M104, as part of the work I am doing. There was no washer for the center hex bolt.

 

[clarkz71]

If you mean the center fan clutch bolt, no. (#20)

The 4 fan bolts, yes. (#8-#11)

Center bolt is what I meant?

I don't see a washer...

Right, center bolt NO is what I said.

I included a pic from EPC showing that. (the bolt #20)

No washer under center fan clutch bolt.

I guess I shouldn't have mentioned the actual fan to clutch bolts

 

[clarkz71]

Cell phone pic the other morning, nothing I could do about the glare. Damn Florida sun
as I was leaving the gas station.

But, you can see the outside temp (75°) and coolant 80°c

Oil pressure is good for being in gear @ 500rpm.

New this past summer Graf water pump and Behr thermostat

This is the 2009 era ACM fan clutch, Motul 5W40 8100 oil and 50/50 Zerex G-05 and distilled water