Viscous Fan Clutch Replacement

[500ESpain]

I'll get the other one then. Thanks!

 

[500ESpain]

Hi,

I ordered an AVA unit and it has just arrived. The packageis oily. The clutch should be completely sealed, right? No plugs, caps or anything like that, correct?

 

[gsxr]

Hi, I ordered an AVA unit and it has just arrived. The packageis oily. The clutch should be completely sealed, right? No plugs, caps or anything like that, correct?

Yep. Should be sealed, and dry. A small amount of leakage, where the package shows signs of oil, may not be an issue... but if the clutch itself is wet, that's bad.

Photos?

 

[500ESpain]

I think it's too much but you guys can tell better.

 

[JC220]

I think it's too much but you guys can tell better.

That looks burst to me- too much oil. Maybe it was sent by airmail - if there were any defects the change in pressure would sure make it leak

 

[gsxr]

That looks burst to me- too much oil. Maybe it was sent by airmail - if there were any defects the change in pressure would sure make it leak

I agree... that does not look good. I would return / exchange it. Preferably for an ACM brand; I've never heard of Ava?

 

[jhodg5ck]

that's some China right there..

I haven't seen an aftermarket Proper ACM M119 fan Clutch in a few minutes now.. We're stuck buying Factory Mercedes for ALLL the money.

jono

 

[gsxr]

Oh no. Did the ACM supply dry up? I haven't checked in years...

 

[jhodg5ck]

oh yea.....Looooong gone.

 

[gsxr]

oh yea.....Looooong gone.

 

[Melville]

Is there a consensus about the rate of properly calibrated Sachs/Horton units? Is it still common for new units to be defective out of the box?

 

[gsxr]

Is there a consensus about the rate of properly calibrated Sachs/Horton units? Is it still common for new units to be defective out of the box?

AFAIK - yes, it is still common for them to be mis-calibrated out of the box.

 

[gerryvz]

I have a new in box factory clutch, that I have not installed on my car. I intend to soon. I will let folks know how it is better than the unit that I have from a 50K mile 1992 500E that I installed in my car a couple of years back. It was a modest improvement over the original clutch that I had on my E500.

I did install new clutches on my G320 (M104) and 560SEC (M117) over the past few years. The M104 unit was a factory clutch, and the M117 unit was OEM (Behr). Both worked perfectly out of the box, and cured cooling problems, but they are not the same as the M119 units....

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Melville]

I had a new Horton clutch installed about a month ago but haven't had a chance to test it. Today I had 8899 with me and, with him revving the car, I could definitely tell it was engaging and disengaging, and it was pushing a lot of air when engaged.

 

[500ESpain]

Hi,

I'm gonna need your help again. I finally found the time to do the job but I can't make the pulley holder tool you recommended work. It's imposible to put it in the water pump pulley and if you put it on any other, it holds the belt but the pulley slips around it. Any tips?

 

[JC220]

What I use is a rag & G clamp. Wrap the rag around the pulley first then tighten a G clamp into it's edge. Then let the clamp rest against another pulley or bracket etc. (serpentine belt still in place if you need to clamp another pulley for space reasons) This always works for me and I think it has less risk of bending a pulley. Or a rubber strap wrench might have the same effect

 

[500ESpain]

Thanks, JC220! That makes sense, I'll try that.

 

[samiam44]

I thought the new Horton made clutches were more consistent than the Sachs production runs.

 

[samm]

Guys is there any alternative to the meyle or graf water pumps? I have read bad things about both...

Also is ACM the best fan clutch aside from the dealer's one?

Thanks

 

[nocfn]

I used a graf on my C126 replacement and it was a perfect fit and no issues for almost 6 years. I think its ACM or dealer...

 

[jhodg5ck]

ACM is china. I like Dealer/OE water pumps in an ideal world. Graf is next, but we have had a few give us problems. Typically the problems are VERY quick to manifest, but doing the job 2X kinda sucks.


OE Mercedes only on the fan clutch....tried ALL the aftermarket solutions here in the states, sent them all back at this point.

jono

 

[JC220]

Guys is there any alternative to the meyle or graf water pumps? I have read bad things about both...

Also is ACM the best fan clutch aside from the dealer's one?

Thanks

I fitted a Hepu brand pump in my 500E. Pictures and fitment details are from page 10 in my owner's thread. It was a good price and high quality - made in Germany item. (Be aware the part numbers in my thread are for the upgrade m119 pump - although I'm not really convinced it was an upgrade at all!)

The factory fan clutch is ridiculously priced. I fitted a new Beru boxed ACM clutch and it's been very good too.

 

[gsxr]

Guys is there any alternative to the meyle or graf water pumps? I have read bad things about both...

Also is ACM the best fan clutch aside from the dealer's one?

I'd spring for the OE/dealer rebuilt water pump. I'm suspicious of the $70 price on the Graf, and I don't trust the Meyle (at $100) any further than I could throw it. If I had to gamble I'd rather try Graf. ECS has a Geba unit which I'm not familiar with. The dealer pump is only $210 plus core charge from Naperville, free shipping:
https://www.mboemparts.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-reman-waterpump-119200150180/

If you can still find an ACM clutch, that is the low-cost fix for the fan. I'm only seeing ACM at ECStuning and FCP, and the photos look different than the ACM I bought years ago:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-acm-parts/cooling-fan-clutch/1192000122~acm/
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-engine-cooling-fan-clutch-400e-500e-e420-e500-1192000122

 

[500ESpain]

For information, I installed a Febi clutch. Car now only reaches 100C on city driving. It required the shorter bolt. The Sachs unit was brand new but defective. It says Horton on the back.

 

[samiam44]

Febi is a reboxer- did it have a company name on the clutch?

 

[500ESpain]

Febi is a reboxer- did it have a company name on the clutch?

Didn't see any. It's thinner than the Sachs for sure. Kind of ACM looking.

 

[gsxr]

Didn't see any. It's thinner than the Sachs for sure. Kind of ACM looking.

The only ones thick like OE are the OE/OEM, Sachs or Horton.

All the thinner ones which require the shorter bolt are aftermarket (ACM, Vemo, or various no-name Chinese clones).

You may want to go back to post #20 at the beginning of this thread, and check out the photos...

 

[500ESpain]

The only ones thick like OE are the OE/OEM, Sachs or Horton.

All the thinner ones which require the shorter bolt are aftermarket (ACM, Vemo, or various no-name Chinese clones).

You may want to go back to post #20 at the beginning of this thread, and check out the photos...

I've seen that. That's why I went for the Sachs in the first place but it never worked and got me scratching my head for months and spending more money in other parts. It's a gamble, I know.

 

[gerryvz]

If you're interested in how a fan clutch actually works, here's a great short video on the topic.

(enjoy the GSXR porno movie background music)

[video=youtube_share;N_GkuTgJr3w]https://youtu.be/N_GkuTgJr3w[/video]

 

[gerryvz]

Another video that is also helpful.

[video=youtube;UwM4OqsLek4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwM4OqsLek4[/video]

 

[M104-AMG]

Does anyone know if the engaging temperature is different between the 103 vs 104 viscous-fan clutch ?

Also, Mercedes is offering an OE "rebuilt" 103 viscous-fan clutch for almost half the cost of new. Are they good ?

Thanks,
neil

 

[gsxr]

I thought the 103 and 104 shared the same clutch - no? Pretty sure the engagement would be the same, somewhere between 85-100C coolant temp, in warm ambients.

I'd take a rebuilt OE clutch any day over aftermarket, but before you get too excited, call the dealer and see if it's actually available.

 

[M104-AMG]

I thought the 103 and 104 shared the same clutch - no? Pretty sure the engagement would be the same, somewhere between 85-100C coolant temp, in warm ambients.

I'd take a rebuilt OE clutch any day over aftermarket, but before you get too excited, call the dealer and see if it's actually available.

The 104 number I'm using is for a W202 C280/C36: 104-200-01-22

W124: 103-200-04-22-81

Perhaps the M104 W124 used the 103 ?

neil

 

[gerryvz]

The M104 as used in the W124 (104.99X) does use the M103 viscous fan clutch mentioned above -- 103 200 04 22 [XX]. That is the generally accepted part number for the M104.

Per the EPC, the 104 200 01 22 fan clutch is specified only for the 104.941 and some .942 engines (appears to be for W202 applications), as well as on the .992 engines up to 002496. So, it looks like it will also work in some limited 124 applications.

I would recommend always using the 103 part, and going with either Behr (aftermarket) or MB (new or rebuilt), for a 104.99X application.

I am actually using an M103 fan clutch on my G-wagen's M104 engine, as well, although it's a slightly different part number 103 200 11 22, which is specific to the M104 (G320) and M103 (300GE) based G-wagens. G-wagen fan-clutch HOW-TO is here: https://www.500eboard.co/forums/index.php?threads/how-to-replacing-m104-w463-fan-clutch.5800/

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Matin]

Hi Guys,

Which way does the bolt turn when you loosen the bolt? Is it clockwise or anti-clockwise?

I've been trying to change the fan clutch but for the life of me cannot loosen the bolt because the pulley keeps slipping and now I'm starting to wonder if it's even the right way we're loosening it.

The fan goes anti-clockwise so assuming that to loosen the bolt you have to do it clockwise which is opposite from the way the fan spins.

Cheers

 

[sheward]

The thread is standard and loosens counter clockwise. Have a helper put additional preasure on the belt if possible. A soft wedge between pully and belt may also work.

drew

 

[Matin]

The thread is standard and loosens counter clockwise. Have a helper put additional preasure on the belt if possible. A soft wedge between pully and belt may also work.

drew

Got it off, the bolt was on extremely tight...got there in the end, changed the clutch and wow does it blow some nice air now!

 

[Jlaa]

If you can still find an ACM clutch, that is the low-cost fix for the fan. I'm only seeing ACM at ECStuning and FCP, and the photos look different than the ACM I bought years ago:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-acm-parts/cooling-fan-clutch/1192000122~acm/
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-engine-cooling-fan-clutch-400e-500e-e420-e500-1192000122

FYI - here is anecdotal data from someone who installed the ACM (or Borg-Warner) viscous fan clutch on their M119 9 years ago. (Actually if you read the thread, you can totally feel the dude's pain when he didn't know that you need a shorter bolt for the ACM clutch). Anyways, the guy recently posted again 9 years after the original installation/post, indicating that he has found the clutch's performance in the past 9 years to be quite satisfactory.

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w124/310610-e420-painful-lesson-good-ending-2.html

 

[mikeym]

The M104 as used in the W124 (104.99X) does use the M103 viscous fan clutch mentioned above -- 103 200 04 22 [XX]. That is the generally accepted part number for the M104.

Per the EPC, the 104 200 01 22 fan clutch is specified only for the 104.941 and some .942 engines (appears to be for W202 applications), as well as on the .992 engines up to 002496. So, it looks like it will also work in some limited 124 applications.

I would recommend always using the 103 part, and going with either Behr (aftermarket) or MB (new or rebuilt), for a 104.99X application.

I am actually using an M103 fan clutch on my G-wagen's M104 engine, as well, although it's a slightly different part number 103 200 11 22, which is specific to the M104 (G320) and M103 (300GE) based G-wagens. G-wagen fan-clutch HOW-TO is here: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6152

Cheers,
Gerry

I just ordered Sachs clutch for my E320 over the weekend and it is coming in tomorrow from Dubai. All of the US based retailers are out of stock on Sachs including Autohausaz.
It is a tropical version though which supposedly means lower cut-in temp for the fan. Will see what effect it has.

Below is the link:
https://www.tool-jack.com/catalogue/clutch-radiator-fan_17501/

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Re: Fan clutch

ADMIN EDIT: Copied this post from a different fan clutch tool thread (link), to keep all the info in one place.

That fan clutch wrench is not correct for the M119.97x cars. ...

The C-shaped tool with 3 holes DOES NOT WORK on the W124 chassis with M119 engine (400E/500E, E420/E500). That tool is for different engine/chassis combinations. There's an old thread on this forum where someone tried to use this and found it simply does not fit between the clutch & pulley...

Indeed not the right tool, found out first hand early this year. I ended up modifying it and grinding down the thickness for it work, final result was this (I was in a pinch, and neeeeeeded it to work):

It is perfectly usable now, but highly recommend starting with the right tools as mentioned above.

Regards,
D

 

[gsxr]

Re: Fan clutch

D, thanks for the photo... I was going to suggest that grinding one down MIGHT work, but I wasn't sure. Now we know it is possible!!

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Dave, it is precisely as you said, the space between the clutch and the pulley is very very limited. However, once that $20 tool is chopped and thinned out a bit, it just slides freely in between, and works really well. I know I needed that leverage in my car!

Regards,
D

 

[darek_u]

It looks like I'll have to replace my clutch like most of the folks here. Has anybody tried to substitute M119 clutch with M104 part? It would have to be replaced with the fan as it has different bolt pattern. The fan itself is also 9 blades design but lightweight plastic rather than magnesium. It also has smaller fins but I'm not sure if that matters that much. I've heard about few folks here in Poland who did this mod and they never regret - engine temp stays correct even in hot summer. The reason I'm asking is the part availability - we all know about ridiculous OE clutch price, ACM is not available at all in Europe AFAIK, all the rest that can be bought here is garbage - Hamburg Technic, Topran etc. I can buy M104 clutch made by Hella/Behr at very reasonable price, the fan itself is darn cheap and widely available. Any thoughts or first hand experience?

 

[gsxr]

I have no firsthand experience, but first make sure the M104 clutch+fan rotates in the same direction. I think the M104 rotates in the opposite direction, so the fan blade wouldn't work, you'd need a different plastic fan. I'm not certain if the skinny 6-cyl clutches will work the same in CW vs CCW rotation, the thick V8/V12 clutches have an internal spring/valve that I believe only works properly spinning in one direction.

Also, the Behr/Hella branded clutches that are inexpensive are very likely made in China. If this mod works, try to get a Sachs/Horton version if possible.

UPDATE: Confirmed the M119 fan rotates CCW as viewed from the front, and most M104 also appear to rotate CCW.

 

[darek_u]

I have no firsthand experience, but first make sure the M104 clutch+fan rotates in the same direction.

You got me here! I didn't think about rotation at all... Maybe someone with M104 can chime in here? If I ever go that route I will definitely replace the whole set - fan + clutch. My current aftermarket clutch is skinny already, I have no idea what brand PO installed but I have no doubts it is a cheap Chinese knock off.

Also, the Behr/Hella branded clutches that are inexpensive are very likely made in China.

Saying "reasonable" I mean 2-3 times more than other aftermarket clutches. It costs pretty much the same ($130) as ACM in US.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

You got me here! I didn't think about rotation at all... Maybe someone with M104 can chime in here? ...

On R129 M104 the fan rotates counterclockwise as you facing the motor:

Diameter of the blades span is about 18", hope this helps...

Regards,
D

EDIT: Here is M104 on W124 for reference https://www.pelicanparts.com/techar..._Fan/06-WATER-Removing_the_Shroud_and_Fan.htm

 

[darek_u]

Counterclockwise = similar to M119, right? That would be great. The fan I'm thinking about is OE p/n 1032000423, diameter is 430 mm and it looks like the one below. I don't know what the exact diameter of M119 fan is but it should be close if not identical.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

I'm assuming so, in the same counterclockwise direction in m119 as well, judging by the picture of the blade shape in this thread https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2834&p=25495&viewfull=1#post25495 ?

 

[gerryvz]

I have used M119 and M104 (both E320 and G320) fan clutches close at hand. I will make some measurements on key things and dimensions and report back.

 

[Eno]

Is it true that on our .036’s you have to remove the radiator to replace the fan clutch due to not enough space between the fan clutch and the radiator?


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