Weird idle /shifting through gears after replacing all the PVC hoses?

[gsxr]

Hm...Braking is not that bad its just not as efficient as before, pedal is softer and than when barely moving in my driveway and braking, pedal kind of falls through and starts pulsing a little like there is air in the system. When I drove the car to the shop today, it drove just fine as long as I don't put it in P or N and when I am coming to a complete stop I can feel brakes being weaker.

OK... that helps a bit. A lack of vacuum to the brake booster would cause a hard pedal that requires a lot of effort, but would not feel like air in the system.

If the brake pedal is soft, has excess travel, or is pulsing... you might have ABS issues? I'm not sure if this could be related to the brake lamp switch S9/1.

 

[Alex89]

Smoke test showed 2 leaks. One on crankcase hose and another somewhere on the intake manifold, not sure where.
After fixing those vacuum leaks brake problem is gone according to them. But the idle is still there. he says he keeps getting codes for ETA or ETA computer, not sure which computer that is.

I will pick up the car later and know little more about it once I talk to them.

 

[gsxr]

Smoke test showed 2 leaks. One on crankcase hose and another somewhere on the intake manifold, not sure where.
After fixing those vacuum leaks brake problem is gone according to them. But the idle is still there. he says he keeps getting codes for ETA or ETA computer, not sure which computer that is.

I will pick up the car later and know little more about it once I talk to them.

That is progress!

The ETA computer on a non-ASR car is the T/LLR module. Codes will be stored in the T/LLR module but may indicate faults with the ETA itself.

I read back through your posts and I don't see any mention of your ETA being rebuilt or rewired... can you confirm the date code? If it's original, don't be surprised if the wiring is toast. I had thought you were R&R'ing the ETA after a rebuild, oooops.

 

[Alex89]

Hahah yea its progress I guess...

I couldn't wait and went to pay for it and talk to them and will pick the car up after work.
So it was one big vacuum leak at the rubber joint on a crankcase line. Where is that?

CEL is on now and they can not get rid of the code 09 for control module TPM N4#3. They scanned it with some star(something) tool... He is telling me he thinks its ETA.

Any thoughts?

When I replaced all the PVC hoses, which required me to take my original ETA out and put it back in, car started to have surging idle, from I guess disturbing original wires. So I bought "new" ETA with a manufacturing date in 09' and put it in. Car still had surging idle. Interesting thing is that when the car is cold it idles ok but as soon as it warms up it starts surging...I am starting to think its a bad ETA...

 

[gsxr]

It's odd that the 2009 ETA is causing problems. It's possible that it's defective, but it's hard to say without further testing. Do you happen to have a spare T/LLR module to swap in?

What module is code 09 code coming from? N4/3 is the T/LLR module. If that is digital code 009 (not to be confused with blink code 9) from the T/LLR, pin 7, that sort of seems to indicate the module might be faulty...?

You can figure out what is causing the CEL using the built-in blinker in front of the CAN box but I'm guessing it's same as before (code 6, idle control inoperative).

If it were my car, I'd try swapping the T/LLR before swapping the ETA again.

 

[Alex89]

I thought about one of those modules too after reading this.

Which one is T/LLR module module, whats the part #, 1245453632? I don't have any spare ones.

Yes, its a digital code 009 coming from N4/3.

Ok, I will look for one of those modules as soon as I find out which one are you talking about.


Thx again for trying to help!!!

 

[gsxr]

Yep, T/LLR module is A1245453632. Jeff (captruff) on the forum has one for sale cheap, he'd probably sell it for less "off eBay"...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-C...ontrol-Module-124-545-36-32-USED/292115074215

 

[Alex89]

Oh nice...I will get in touch with him!

 

[jhodg5ck]

It's odd that the 2009 ETA is causing problems. It's possible that it's defective, but it's hard to say without further testing. Do you happen to have a spare T/LLR module to swap in?

What module is code 09 code coming from? N4/3 is the T/LLR module. If that is digital code 009 (not to be confused with blink code 9) from the T/LLR, pin 7, that sort of seems to indicate the module might be faulty...?

You can figure out what is causing the CEL using the built-in blinker in front of the CAN box but I'm guessing it's same as before (code 6, idle control inoperative).

If it were my car, I'd try swapping the T/LLR before swapping the ETA again.

Late date code or no, I see them fail in all manner of ways now. Wiring is good, but the rest of it breaks now....

Hell, our 17K mile ETA was having sticky clutch issues/all the lubrication had turned to Gunk. Torn down/cleaned up she idles Much happier now!

Jono

 

[Alex89]

Yep, T/LLR module is A1245453632. Jeff (captruff) on the forum has one for sale cheap, he'd probably sell it for less "off eBay"...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-C...ontrol-Module-124-545-36-32-USED/292115074215

T/LLR module came really fast (Thx Jeff), I put it in and unfortunately it did not fix my issues...Car runs perfect but after it warms up it still revs only in N and P...I guess I will try another ETA and after that go for a MAF.

Is it worth trying to get BBA re-manufactured ETA?

Here is the video:

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6AfM0AzvVA

[video=youtube;g6AfM0AzvVA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6AfM0AzvVA[/video]

 

[jhodg5ck]

would have been a little surprised if the TTLR fixed it..

I've never replaced a MAF on a 119. I think my total of good used MAF's is up to around 14 now.


The only thing I have found BBA good for is R129 soft top modules. Tried them on some other bits some years years ago with unsatisfactory results.

jono

 

[Stevester 500E]

While you are in there looking at the ETA, adjust the linkages and check the throttle cable for any broken plastic pieces.
Make sure that there is no binding up at the ball joints and lubricated them.
Check fuel pressure regulator while engine is cold and then after it warms up. Also, inspect the rubber line to the FPR.

 

[Alex89]

Ok I ordered a different ETA so lets see if that helps.
Over the weekend when I swap the "new" ETA" I will check those things. Not 100% on how to do them yet but I will do some research. If it doesn't work I might take it to the dealership and see what they say.

 

[gsxr]

Ok I ordered a different ETA so lets see if that helps.
Over the weekend when I swap the "new" ETA" I will check those things. Not 100% on how to do them yet but I will do some research. If it doesn't work I might take it to the dealership and see what they say.

What is the source of the "new" ETA and what is the datecode?

 

[Alex89]

Source is Ebay and date is 04M01...
Can the air temp sensor be the cause, since the car acts funny once it warms up?

 

[gsxr]

Source is Ebay and date is 04M01...
Can the air temp sensor be the cause, since the car acts funny once it warms up?

Air temp sensor (IAT) shouldn't cause this. Since the module swap didn't change anything, Jono may be correct about the ETA. It will be very difficult to diagnose further without a digital scanner to show live data.

 

[Alex89]

So after putting a "new" ETA, car now does not surge in P and N, but idles at 1600-1700 in P and N...That has to be stupid ETA than...right?

 

[jhodg5ck]

you sure you have that linkage hooked back up correctly? ASR/CEL lights on?

 

[Alex89]

How can I be really sure?
Maybe I will play with it and see what happens...so if idle is high, should I try to unscrew it some more and extend it?

 

[jhodg5ck]

does the throttle arm sit against the stop @ idle. You can visually check.

FWIW, I don't think the dealership will do much if anything for you.


*ooo, 2000 posts....only eventybillion before I catch GSXR!*

 

[Alex89]

Congrats on 2k posts haha

So I can run the car without the air filter housing?Let me check now. I know that when I put the new ETA, everything looked fine. Does the throttle arm tense when the car is in P or N?

 

[jhodg5ck]

sure, all day...some of the Early cars are a little sensitive to the air blowing over from the fan but it's Rare IME>>

arm should rest against the stop, that's where the idle contact switch hits.

 

[gsxr]

The throttle linkage MUST be adjusted per FSM or it won't idle properly (and may trigger codes). No ASR light though since it's a non-ASR E420.

Jono is right, first thing to check is if the lever on the ETA is resting against the stop at idle; if not adjust the linkage.

 

[Alex89]

I just checked...it is resting against the stop.
How to adjust it per FSM? What is FSM?

 

[gsxr]

FSM = Factory Service Manual.

Index: http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/Index/119index.html

Instructions for non-ASR M119: http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/w124CD1/Program/Engine/119/30-1010EB.pdf

 

[Alex89]

Thx, that was fast.
Everything looks good, linkage is at the stop and has 2-3mm free play before throttle starts opening, just like before when the car was ruining normal.
This is driving me insane, not sure what to do but I will check codes again and just take it to the dealership...I tried few local places that are familiar with the car but everyone refuses to work on them. I can just go and replace parts all day long but its not working... Maybe they can detect something with live data even though I doubt its something serious now that the car just idles high and does not surge...

 

[jhodg5ck]

I'd be real surpsied the dealership has anyone left that Knows these. Guys like Klink are rare in that regard IME!

Plus, they're going to want to sell you a new ETA and a new TTLR...plus a Lot of other stuff just to get started.

How far are you from Titusville?

I can't say I agree w/ the lack of serious in regards to the high idle...what ever is wrong is going to whack out a Lot of stuff. Nothing in this car is an island...

jono

 

[Alex89]

I m maybe 2h away from Titusville, not too far, why?
Yea you are most likely right about the dealership.

I just read codes and got

Pin 6, code 13

Pin 7, codes 2,5,6,and 11.

I erased the codes and ran car for a min but no codes came back...will have to test drive it for few minutes.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Pierre Hedary is up there, these aren't his forte Exactly but he is thorough and otherwise Very well informed with older mercedes.

Codes are kinda Meh, this car needs time on SDS with someone that is familiar with what should be going & has known good modules to test with ideally.

 

[Alex89]

Hm I just looked the guy up, pretty interesting. I will give him a call and see if I can work something out with him so he can take a look at the car. Thx for the suggestion!

 

[jhodg5ck]

mention me when you call, won't hurt...

 

[Alex89]

Of course...do I say Jono from e500 or Jono from GA, how would you like me to represent you?

 

[Alex89]

I just got a call from the dealership, they found a EGR valve to be leaking. Can that be a problem?
It sucks that other place didn't catch it.

Anyone has link on how to replace it, so far I am not having luck finding instructions on m119. Is that the one between the distributors that's held by 2 hex bolts if I remember correctly, next to few wiring harness connections?

 

[gsxr]

I just got a call from the dealership, they found a EGR valve to be leaking. Can that be a problem? It sucks that other place didn't catch it.

Anyone has link on how to replace it, so far I am not having luck finding instructions on m119. Is that the one between the distributors that's held by 2 hex bolts if I remember correctly, next to few wiring harness connections?

EGR valve problems are really, really rare on the M119. I am curious how exactly it is "leaking". If it's the vacuum side, and it's only a partial leak, this may not cause ANY problems whatsoever. I'm really suspicious about this being the root cause of your issues.

Anyway - the EGR valve replacement is very simple, 3 bolts and it pops right off the intake manifold. It can be a little difficult to access the bolts. Yes, it's the round metal flying saucer on the passenger side of the intake, near the temp sensor wiring up front.

I'd want to confirm it's definitely the cause of your problems before buying a new one (probably $$$). Or get a used one and swap it on.

 

[Alex89]

I know, it s weird because I would think the first vacuum test would show it since its right there.

Thx, I know exactly where it is now and I will replace it and see what happens. I will pick up the car soon and ask where is it leaking exactly.

Fun fact; they quoted the part at $320 and labor at $220 to replace it ($540) . I see the new part one is $200 online.

Also, what are the correct ETA bolts... I know its M6 something. Mine took a nice beatings since I replaced ETA 4x and last time I tightened it pretty hard just in case, so I would like to change the bolts.

 

[gsxr]

If the EGR valve diaphragm won't hold vacuum, the engine will run perfectly, but you'll get a CEL due to the valve not opening. The valve is normally closed and requires vacuum to open. About the only way it can cause problems is if the valve is either stuck open, or has debris blocking the seat so it can't fully close. A quick test is to apply vacuum, then yank the hose off and you can hear the valve snap closed. With the valve removed you can see the open/close action on the workbench. A new valve is $200 from Naperville and you can change it yourself in less than half an hour... IF you really need it:
https://www.mboemparts.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-egr-valve-0011407660/

The ETA bolts are MB # 914152-006000 and $3/ea list price, and I believe they have thread lock compound pre-applied. The torque spec in the FSM is freakishly high and I think it's a typo. You shouldn't need to have them super tight if the gasket surfaces are clean and the gasket is intact.

 

[jhodg5ck]

I replaced an EGR valve Once on a 119...no running issues but wouldn't pass emissions....

IDT this is your issue.

clean up the old ETA bolts, a dab of locktite and snug em up. You'll be good to go.

 

[Alex89]

Thanks for the bolt info, I will order some just in case.

Yea based on what you say it looks like its not EGR. I will look for a used cheap one to see if it helps but not sure what else to do...

Can it be engine wire harness? I might change it again.

I just noticed something when I picked up the car. When the car is warm and I put it in P or N, it starts revving. I shut it off and turn it on, it does not rev, but as soon as I turn the heat on it starts revving, I turn the heat off and it idles high constantly but does not rev, so I turned the heat back on again and it started revving again.

When I picked up the car I asked for a technician and he pretty much told me he is not sure its EGR but that's where "we have to start" and than do another smoke test, long story short they are useless unless I have 5k to spend on trying to fix it their way.

I really dont know what else to do...Maybe I will change EGR, another harness and go from there...Any recommendations?

 

[jhodg5ck]

dealerships Suck w/ these....with a few very Limited exceptions.

Check grounds, I still don't trust that ETA. If your upper harness shows Zero signs of degradation I doubt that's the problem.

HVAC having an influence I start to wonder about voltage...

 

[Alex89]

I will check grounds and all the wires that I can. I just dont know where to start anymore.

I drove the car yesterday for 15min or so and rpm started surging when I slowed down at the parking lot, going about 5-10 mph...When I shut the car off and start it it doesnt suge, like some kind of commuter resets. And if I put it in D than back to P or mess with the AC/Heat it starts acting up...And when it revs and goes to the highest point before it drops its sounds like its hitting something or it clicks and rpm goes back down and when it goes back up I hear it again and it goes down...when I hear the click it shakes the car very little...I have no clue...

I just pulled codes again and got:

Pin 7, code 2 - So many things

Pin 16, code 13- Coolant temperature sensor interupt

Pin 19, code 6- Idle speed control inoperative

Pin 30, code 8 - Voltage supply circuit 15R

I keep getting new and random codes...Its making me believe its wiring harness...Or some ground somewhere like Jono said...

 

[Alex89]

So after putting a different ETA, that works, car doesn't surge anymore but has high idle. At cold start its at about 1100 but after it warms up it goes to over 1500.
I drove the car for few days after erasing all the codes and no codes have come back. This morning car hesitated to start and after it started warming up I kept hearing some sound almost like a far away bass on a stereo and it started almost chocking lightly.

I ordered CPS, and sparkplugs (003-159-68-03) that I am going to change as well as take out EGR out and clean if possible. Another weird thing I noticed is that if I am going 5mph car has a small lurch as if I had a blown tire, or someone was pressing throttle very slightly.

After that I will try to change NSS and check valve if I can locate them both. Possibly get another ETA and maybe the ECT.

 

[doolar]

Check adjustment on the throttle rod that connent to the ETA. Now yours is surging, so it’s a longshot, but I had high idle after R&R:ing the whole intake manifold. Half a turn on one of the rod ball ends could make the idle switch turn on and off. I’d check, just to make sure.

Just press the arm on the ETA to the rest stop with a screwdriver. If it stops surging, bingo.

Takes 10 minutes, cost is zero.

 

[gsxr]

Thomas is correct, triple-check the linkage adjustment.

You are nearing the point where you will be unable to diagnose further without a digital scanner. Have you considered investing in a Chinese SDS?

 

[Alex89]

It stopped surging after I put the working ETA. This thread helped me a lot (https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7377). I have 2 spare ETAs.The one that was in the car wasnt buzzing when the key was on and was giving me crazy codes. So when I put the buzzing one back in, I am not getting any codes and idle does not surge its, just high when the car gets hot. It starts at 1100 or so but after few min it goes up to over 1500rpm.

I will try to mess with the arm but why would the idle go up when the car get hot? I dont thing thats the arm/linkage issue but I will try, like you said its $0 cost. Can it be the ECT sensor?

I never thought about buying Chinese SDS but maybe I will end up doing it. One local Mercedes shop has it so I might go to them before I buy one.

 

[gsxr]

The non-buzzing ETA is likely DOA. You can do a quick test to confirm it's not totally DOA by plugging it in to your car with the linkage in the idle position, and turn the key on. The ETA should make all the usual clicking / buzzing noises. If not, it's DOA. The only complete test is to actually install the spare unit on the car and drive a few hundred miles with it and verify it works normally. An in-between test is described by Klink in the HOW-TO section here (thanks Jlaa for finding this!).

So you have a normal idle when cold, but the idle speed increases when hot? I didn't see that in your posts. It should idle at ~1000rpm for a minute or two after a cold start, then drop to ~750 in P/N, and ~600 in gear. If it never drops below 1000 even when warming up (few minutes after a cold start), that isn't right. It's pretty unlikely to be the ECT, but you can measure / test the ECT (B11/2) with an ohmmeter. PDF attached. Only the 4-pin ECT affects the engine management.

 

[Alex89]

Thanks I will check this ETA as described by Klink.

Yes, car now idles right around 1000 when started cold but after 2-3 minutes it goes as high as 1500 in P/N. After I drive it and get the car really warmed up and put it in P or N it goes to almost 2000 rpm. What can that be?
I never posted this because it just started happening when I put another ETA few days ago. The one ETA I used before wasn't buzzing (not working right) so car was surging and giving me few codes.

After few days of driving (with a "good" buzzing ETA) I didn't get any codes just high idle as described above. Only new issue that happened was that the car hesitated to start (on a 3rd day) and than it started chocking after few minutes in P. Similar chocking also happened first time when I put that buzzing ETA for the first time but it was only when I put it in D, as soon as I would put it back in P it was fine, but after a short drive it went away and didn't re appear until 3 days later but now it chocked in P (not D) . Its just so confusing to me.


I am going to test ETA as mentioned, check linkage, try to change few parts and if that doesn't work I might get the diagnostic tool, or take it to that guy Piere Hardany. Its just amazing how this problem can be such a pain.During my research I see there are so many threads out there about similar issue but almost nobody comes back to post the solution or if they even figured it out.

 

[gsxr]

I just realized the Klink test procedure is specifically describing the process for ASR vehicles. It's essentially the same for non-ASR, with the exception that non-ASR ETA's will have more resistance when moving the linkage by hand, as it is not drive-by-wire like the ASR ETA is.

Your high idle sounds kind of like an intake leak, but the smoke test should have found anything seriously hosed up. I'm starting to run short on ideas; this is where the Chinese SDS (specfically, HHT-Win) helps as you can view live data. The catch is, unless you know what values to expect, that may not be a lot of help. Why is why E500E owners should also own a 400E420, and vice-versa. (kidding! partly.)

 

[Alex89]

Yea I had 2 smoke tests.... I will try some of the things above and report back if I have any success. Maybe I just had that luck to buy all the crappy used ETA's and all it is is a good working ETA...idk...

 

[Alex89]

Hm...When I got home tonight, car wouldn't start. I had to jump start it.
Starts up at like 1400 but after 20sec it goes down to about 1000.

But I noticed something weird. Under driver side distributor, car was making sparks, sounds like trying to light the lighter and every time it would spark, car would choke. I turned it off and will open it tomorrow to see what is going on.

Where the red circle is where I see the spark


Second one is a close pic of the burnt spot from the spark...Pic is sideways, I just cant turn it the right way when I post it here for some reason. It should be turn counter clockwise.

 

[gsxr]

That appears to be failed ignition wires shorting out! How old are the wires? The light gray color makes me suspect they are Bosch aftermarket, if so, those have very fragile insulation. You'll need to inspect all the wires closely in that area. Any time the spark shorts to ground you'll get a misfire. If the wires are old and/or damaged, you're probably going to need to replace them.

This is probably not related to your high-idle issue though. Another thought, are you certain your tach is accurate? And that it isn't showing 1000rpm when it's actually 600rpm or something?