OWNER 1993 400E in Signal red, possibly sketchy car

[93-400E]

Just bought this car, Im in love. SOLD - 1993 400E, Signal Red / Cream-Beige, 224kmi, $2400 (Portland, OR) | 400E / E420 Cars for Sale this will fill you in a bit.

Ask questions and I will try to oblige. Im new and not used to w124's yet. So far the window reg snapping on the driver rear is the worst part, horrible sound to accompany that happening btw.

 

[nocfn]

Welcome. Martin Marnelli aftermarket (or similar Italian name) is suitable for the replacement and rather common. Transfer the motor over and lube it up. There are multiple "HOW TO" posts on multiple issues to address, and I think door card removal is in there as well. SEARCH function is your friend here.

 

[gsxr]

There's a good chance you'll really like the 124 chassis. I've owned them since 1996 and still daily drive a pair of E420's.

Since you are new to the 124, you may not know that the factory service manuals are available online at this link.

Almost everything you need to know about the care & feeding of your new ride will be on this forum. Search to find previous discussions on whatever you're looking for, e.g. what nocfn said about the window regulator replacement. The HOW-TO section is here.

These cars are OBD-1 so you'll need a blink code reader for diagnostics, or better yet the full Star Diagnostics to view live data. Rear the sticky notes in the De-Coding sub-forum (link), also see the Troubleshooting and Diagnostics section (link).

Final note - there are some brand of aftermarket parts which must be avoided like the plague. ÜRO, APA, FEQ, Hamburg are a few. The full list is here. Check out FCP Euro, RM European, and AutohausAZ for aftermarket parts. For dealer parts, try MB of Laredo here.

 

[93-400E]

Thanks for all of the help guys. Im going to try to keep this thing forever so this is big help. I was using this forum while researching this car.

 

[93-400E]

My main issue at the moment is holding and pumping washer fluid. It doesn't make any noise when activated by the stalk.

 

[R129 UK]

My main issue at the moment is holding and pumping washer fluid. It doesn't make any noise when activated by the stalk.

Check for a voltage at the pump while an assistant operates the switch, obv check the relevant fuse too and check there is water in the reservoir etc.

This car is very new to you so you don’t know much of its history or how it behaves or misbehaves…

 

[93-400E]

That was seemingly the plan. I'm no wrench but I'm trying, mostly because my friend is. He helped me replaces all the bad or going bad suspension and brake components on my 300d.

 

[gsxr]

Washer pump not working is probably either the fuse, or the pump itself.

If leaking, it's either the rubber grommet, and/or the pump itself.

Is your 300D a W123 chassis?

 

[93-400E]

Yes it is, with trap oxidizer. Driver rear was hit and ran in november. I love it. Its my second car and this 400e is my third car. An 81 240D was my first and I crashed that in pure stupidity. My father was a mercedes specialist mechanic at an independent shop for 30ish years and sadly has passed so his expertise doesnt help too much now. So I am going to rely on you guys a lot. Thank you all so much.

 

[gsxr]

Whoa, you have the unicorn-rare 1985 300D with CA emissions package? Not a lot of those 123.133's out there. The air cleaner is much, much better on that model vs all other 123 diesels. I owned a few 123 diesels (including 300D and 240D) but, ahem, I'm not fond of them. Sad to hear about your father, however if you can follow directions from the forum and YouTube, you can handle most repairs on your 123's & new 124.

I suspect you will REALLY like the 400E as you spend more time in it. They really are great cars.

 

[93-400E]

I am fine with slow and I love the w123, hell, I want a w115 300d at some point and a w108. I love all of these old cars. My 300D is tired and was hit and run. Simultaneously, my gf needed a car so I seized the day on this one.

My main worry is the possible totaling of it. I have the title and it seems normal, but if it was crashed should I be worried?

 

[gsxr]

My main worry is the possible totaling of it. I have the title and it seems normal, but if it was crashed should I be worried?

If you can't find any evidence of major body repair, I wouldn't worry about it, especially since the alleged accident was 20 years ago. Might have been related to a theft recovery. Did the seller have any information on this?

The "total loss" record on CarFax will affect resale value but I'm guessing that's not a major concern either. It's also possible the Carfax record is incorrect.

 

[93-400E]

There is essentially no paperwork at all but seems cared for. I don't really know how to put it. It just feels like a good one y'know?

 

[Bogeyman]

If it's a west coast car and you're not fighting rust, it's a great start.

 

[93-400E]

If it's a west coast car and you're not fighting rust, it's a great start.

Definitely part of my thought process.

 

[93-400E]

I will say I am very excited to have this car. And all of you being very cordial and helpful is so great. Now, I just need to not get tickets and do routine stuff, of which I am planning on doing this Saturday. Anything to look out for while driving, or common things to overlook?

 

[gsxr]

Main thing while driving is to watch the speedometer. 90mph doesn't feel any different than 60mph. I use cruise control almost all the time...

 

[93-400E]

I have noticed that. Especially being used to the 300D. And in red that might be a cop magnet when I was invisible in a light ivory diesel before.

 

[93-400E]

On my way home it just popped up with a check engine light. It was on the start up

 

[93-400E]

It was a code 17

 

[gsxr]

DM code 17 = Data exchange malfunction between individual control modules

You'll need to pull codes from individual modules with a hand-held blinker box to get more info. Links in post #3 above.

 

[93-400E]

Does anyone know the exact month that wiring harnesses went bad. People say, "late 92", and that could be anything and mine is from 9/92

 

[gsxr]

If it's original, it's bad... you'll find lots of degraded insulation. There are two dates on the tag, make sure you are looking at the correct one. I'd be surprised if a car got past 200kmi on the original... possible, just unlikely.

Details here:

Date of production engine harness | Electrical, CAN and Wiring

I'm examining the engine harness because my starter harness is in poor condition, and I plan to repair it with new wires. However, the main harness appears to be in good shape and seems to have silicone cables inside. I found a label with a number on it, but I'm uncertain about the three...

www.500eboard.co

 

[93-400E]

It say 9/92 on it but seems in good condition

 

[gsxr]

It say 9/92 on it but seems in good condition

What are the two dates? An original won't be in good condition.

Pics of the inside at this link, scroll down.

Wiring harness degradation photos | Troubleshooting and Diagnostics

Per Gerry's request, I have taken some pictures my wiring harness. The idea is that this thread becomes a collection of damaged wiring harnesses, possibly also of other components that fail often. If you have pictures stuff you replaced, please add them here. Hmm, a pity you can't put the...

www.500eboard.co

 

[93-400E]

Can confirm it has metal cam oiler tubes and has a new ETA. Forgot to look at the other number but it all seems really good.

 

[93-400E]

Is the febi timing kit that bad?

 

[dreaming.haze]

Great color on this one! Will be a rewarding one to get everything squared away on.

Is the febi timing kit that bad?

To your question, it isn't recommended. Febi reboxes more than produced, so it is unknown where the components will be sourced from.

You've had the car for a week or so, why do you feel it needs timing looked at? aka, what is currently causing struggles on the car?

 

[93-400E]

There are no service records and at certain rpms you can hear a slight chain slap, and I would rather be safe than sorry.

Also, thanks. I have really grown to love the color.

 

[dreaming.haze]

Understood, common enough for the timing chain guides to wear out by this point and need replacing. Depending on which guides have failed, you will have a variable level of noise + amount of work to fit new guides.

You can certainly go down the rabbit hole with these engines, so for a start I'd say peel off one of the valve covers and see how things look. Then assess from there.

Good thread to start reading through: RESTO PROJECT: M119 / W124 / E500 Engine Top-End Refresh | Member Roadtrips and Project Journals

 

[93-400E]

Thank you, I have a friend who is a good wrench, and he is going to assist. I was planning on taking the valve covers off and just replacing the top ones (1190500216,1190520916,1190160380,1190160580 I think) and then going from there. But buying in advance seems smart to me.

 

[emerydc8]

If the top guides between the cam sprockets are in bad shape, after replacing them think about pulling the oil pan to remove the broken pieces. A few months ago a member had low oil pressure at idle due to pieces of the plastic guides in the oil pan getting sucked into the oil pickup tube screen. Plan on installing a new oil pan gasket and a new piece that goes over the oil pickup tube that contains the screen.

Also, while you're in there, you should consider changing the O-rings for the oil quantity sensor plug located on the right (passenger) side of the block and accessible by reaching up into the engine with the oil pan removed. There are two O-rings on that sensor plug that often leak due to being right in line with the crankshaft which throws oil onto it. It's probably a once-in-a-lifetime repair. There's a tiny C-clip holding the sensor plug on from the outside that can easily be removed/installed using long 18" needle nose pliers (Harbor Freight has them).

 

[93-400E]

Duly noted. Thank you.

Do you know if I need all of those parts for the rails? Am I missing one, or do I have too many?

 

[emerydc8]

You will have to look once you have the valve covers off. Usually you can get away with doing just the top guides between the cam sprockets which is an easy job. Make sure you stuff a rag around the open area to catch pieces of the old guides from dropping into the engine. The Mercedes shop manual specifies a tool to remove the guides but you won't need it since you are replacing them anyway.

As for the while-you're-in-there things I described above, here are the part numbers. There is also a post about the oil strainer. The @gsxr and @gerryvz say to use the adapter 110 186 00 07 64. Rubber oil pump suction pipe / boot NLA? (UPDATE - available again) | M119 Engine

The genuine oil pan gasket is more expensive from the dealer than the Victor Reinz from AutohausAZ but if you are already ordering the other parts from the dealer (I use www.mbpartsource.com in Laredo), by the time you pay AutohausAZ shipping it will probably be the same to order the gasket from the dealer.

 

[93-400E]

Thanks so much for all of the help. I am already ordering from AutohausAZ so I will get an oil pan gasket too.

 

[93-400E]

As I will be in there, I was also planning on changing the spark plugs and was thinking of going with denso iridium ones. Are there any issues with that?

 

[gsxr]

As I will be in there, I was also planning on changing the spark plugs and was thinking of going with denso iridium ones. Are there any issues with that?

Yep. Don't do it.

Use standard copper non-resistor plugs, Bosch F8DC4 or similar. NOT Bosch FR8DC.

AutohausAZ doesn't sell them. FCP Euro still carries these (link).

Set the gap to 1.0-1.1mm (larger than 0.8mm spec). Search the forum for many old threads discussing plugs and gaps.

 

[93-400E]

Is there any particular reason? I believe you I just cant find anyone who has seemingly actually tried this.

 

[gsxr]

Is there any particular reason?

Yep. These engines do not like either fine-wire exotic electodes, nor resistor plugs. You'll pay a lot more and the engine may run worse, not better. Lose-lose proposition.

Search the forum for details... it's all been discussed (repeatedly) in the past...

 

[93-400E]

Along the same line, I was planning on using some 10w-40 MOS2 liqui moly oil with a hengst filter. Any qualms?

 

[gsxr]

Along the same line, I was planning on using some 10w-40 MOS2 liqui moly oil with a hengst filter. Any qualms?

Liqui-Moly is good stuff, and 10W-40 is an appropriate viscosity - no issues there. 2 gallons / 8 quarts is all you need.

Hengst, Mann, Knecht, Mahle are all good filters.

Replace the filter first, BEFORE draining the pan. When you remove the filter, the dirty oil in the filter canister drains into the pan.

 

[93-400E]

Did the top rails and plugs and did a brake flush, it looks pretty good in there and there was slack in the throttle cable so we fiddled with that. It is so much more crisp now.

 

[93-400E]

Also, as an aside, I have heard a rumor that the USA 400E's are built in Mexico with no evidence. Is there any validity to this?

 

[gsxr]

Did the top rails and plugs and did a brake flush, it looks pretty good in there and there was slack in the throttle cable so we fiddled with that. It is so much more crisp now.

Nice! There should be zero play between the end of the throttle cable and the spring. Adjust as needed:

Also, as an aside, I have heard a rumor that the USA 400E's are built in Mexico with no evidence. Is there any validity to this?

Never heard that, and it's completely false. The VIN decal in the driver door jamb should say "Made in Germany" to prove wrong anyone who claims otherwise.

400E's made in Mexico! *snort* I may have officially heard everything now...

 

[93-400E]

That pic of the throttle was a before pic. It is as you explained now.

As for the mexico thing I saw it on a peach parts forum and a couple others *maybe bots or secondary accounts* agreed. Seemed insanely unlikely.

 

[93-400E]

This has been going on the whole time I owned it, but it runs quite rich. Any ideas? An O2 sensor was my first guess.

 

[gsxr]

This has been going on the whole time I owned it, but it runs quite rich. Any ideas? An O2 sensor was my first guess.

Why do you think it's running rich? Is there any hint of a misfire, which would cause raw fuel to dump out the exhaust?

Primary items affecting mixture are:

O2 sensor
MAF
Fuel pressure regulator
LH module (check if there's an aftermarket chip inside that might be causing problems - very unlikely)

 

[93-400E]

Ok cool. My main diag on that is it smells like fuel is coming out only when running, unless thats how m119s just operate and my fuel efficiency is below what Ive heard

 

[gsxr]

Ok cool. My main diag on that is it smells like fuel is coming out only when running, unless thats how m119s just operate and my fuel efficiency is below what Ive heard

It shouldn't smell like fuel when running.

Normal MPG is in the ballpark of 18-20mpg city, 22-24mpg freeway. If it's way lower, first thing would be to inspect the odometer gears... if teeth are missing, the odo will not accurately show total miles driven.

 

[93-400E]

The fuel smell is palpable and ever present and the fuel pump makes a whine but not to bad. Im just thinking of possibilities on the running rich.