converted 722.365 to CVT

[Roma_500E]

AL right , finally my patience was gone today so I converted 722.365 transmission into CVT with only ONE gear. It does not go anyway in R even if I floor pedal. It does not go at 1 , 2 or 3 only in drive and it starts from 4th

So good news I ll get a new tranny. Ideas ? Suggestion ?

Rebuild ? Where ?
or
Used (with low mileage, less than 60 000) ? Where to get ?

I heard trannies from W140 and R129 work ? Should I try 600SL or 600SEL tranny which supposedly with better clutches ?

 

[gsxr]

That doesn't sound good. If you plan to keep the car long term, I would look into a GOOD rebuild from a reputable shop. I've heard that some "rebuilders" only replace internal parts that are visibly worn, re-seal the trans, and you end up with a half-assed fix with a short life span. Only place I know to recommend is Jono at BlueRidgeMB but he's might be busy... no clue how long it might take. He could do upgrades too, most places will just do a stock rebuild (which is fine if you don't plan on NOS or a 6.0L conversion).

W140 and R129 transmissions will work, if they are from 5.0L cars only.

The M120 V12 transmissions WILL NOT work. Different bolt pattern on the bellhousing. Forget any SL600 or S600 units.

 

[Roma_500E]

Considering how much I ve spent money and more important my time/patience I should keep this beauty forever, lol. Honestly I love the car so should provide a proper care.

That is what I thought first of all is Jono , otherwise I do not trust other re-builders and you pretty much listed the reasons.

That was stupid question regarding M120 cars , I should think about that first.

So either Jono (I ll try to get a hold of him) or low mileage tranny .

What are the tranny codes that will fit ? 370, 365 and 364 , what else ?

Any ideas Dave where can I get a good used one ? Maybe you know some currently on sale ?

 

[KarlC]

AL right , finally my patience was gone today so I converted 722.365 transmission into CVT with only ONE gear. It does not go anyway in R even if I floor pedal. It does not go at 1 , 2 or 3 only in drive and it starts from 4th

So good news I ll get a new tranny. Ideas ? Suggestion ?

Rebuild ? Where ?
or
Used (with low mileage, less than 60 000) ? Where to get ?

I heard trannies from W140 and R129 work ? Should I try 600SL or 600SEL tranny which supposedly with better clutches ?

How many miles on the tranny ?

Did you notice any other issues first ?
.

 

[Maui]

That doesn't sound good. If you plan to keep the car long term, I would look into a GOOD rebuild from a reputable shop. I've heard that some "rebuilders" only replace internal parts that are visibly worn, re-seal the trans, and you end up with a half-assed fix with a short life span. Only place I know to recommend is Jono at BlueRidgeMB but he's might be busy... no clue how long it might take. He could do upgrades too, most places will just do a stock rebuild (which is fine if you don't plan on NOS or a 6.0L conversion).

W140 and R129 transmissions will work, if they are from 5.0L cars only.

The M120 V12 transmissions WILL NOT work. Different bolt pattern on the bellhousing. Forget any SL600 or S600 units.

It is hard to find good rebuilder. I hate paying on the job training.

Between yours and mine we have all the forward gears covered.

 

[Roma_500E]

How many miles on the tranny ? Did you notice any other issues first ? .

152K and it was rebuild before at 120K + I believe. I always used synthetic fluids , last two changes with the redline d4 so idk, i m just unhappy with MB quality . Never had any issues with Lexus especially with the older models. Well there was slight delay in reverse which I put up with. The last month it started to slip from 2 to 3 (even with highly adjusted modulator) . So today my patience was gone and decided to convert it to CVT so now I got clear reason to replace it.

I believe both symptoms are common issues.

 

[Roma_500E]

I hate paying on the job training.

You are so right ... I m 101% agree with you and have experienced the same issue .

Between yours and mine we have all the forward gears covered.

wait , is your tranny broke too ?

 

[gsxr]

Wait - car has 152k and trans was previously rebuilt at 120k? SO the rebuild trans has approx 30kmi on it? Wow - that's pretty sad. Any idea what shop did the previous rebuild?

 

[Roma_500E]

Wait - car has 152k and trans was previously rebuilt at 120k? SO the rebuild trans has approx 30kmi on it? Wow - that's pretty sad. Any idea what shop did the previous rebuild?

Nope , no ideas . It was done by previous owner and the records he sent me has a note of tranny job at that mileage . Plus I found some tranny bolts loose so apparently somebody mokeyed around with it. It did have a clean fluid but it did not work properly when I got a car. In addition the PO is very wealthy intelligent Porsche enthusiast so how come it got a poor tranny work .

It is sad Dave , that is why I m thinking what should I do now .

 

[gerryvz]

You should ship your transmission to Jono, have him give it a few modest tweaks and upgrades in the rebuild, and re-install it. You will be happy once you do that.

 

[KarlC]

You should ship your transmission to Jono, have him give it a few modest tweaks and upgrades in the rebuild, and re-install it. You will be happy once you do that.

+ 1

 

[szvook]

where can I get a good used one ? Maybe you know some currently on sale ?

I might know of a used one from a 1993 500E with (if I'm not mistaken) 67K original miles and this one has extra clutch packs installed...but it's here in SoCal. If you are interested, let me know and I can look into its availability, last time I heard it was stashed away in a crate.

I was going to keep this one for myself, but it would be selfish of me to not help a bother.

 

[alexis]

Hi,
I don't know what it's all about in the US but, over here, the 1994 models' transmissions are known to fail, at least more than the previous years transmissions. Confirmed by my MB dealer...
Might be good to avoid a 1994 model used one...
Alex

 

[Roma_500E]

I might know of a used one from a 1993 500E with (if I'm not mistaken) 67K original miles and this one has extra clutch packs installed...but it's here in SoCal. If you are interested, let me know and I can look into its availability, last time I heard it was stashed away in a crate.

I was going to keep this one for myself, but it would be selfish of me to not help a bother.

PM sent

 

[Roma_500E]

Sp far three options

1) Jono (has to check time/price)
2) MB dealer (price)
3) Steve's option (time/price)

 

[gerryvz]

Sp far three options

1) Jono (has to check time/price)
2) MB dealer (price)
3) Steve's option (time/price)

Or option #4 - source another used transmission out of a 500E or compatible car, i.e. from a junkyard or other source.

 

[szvook]

I jumped the gun last night, should have checked first before posting a suggestion...but it was at night and I was going off what I was told last time. Anywho, the transmission was sold two weeks ago and I was going to be told this week of the sale, my tuner was waiting to make sure the buyer was happy with the transmission after it was installed and tested, it was sold to a guy in Japan and it was shipped by sea, so it took a while before the sale was finalized.

Sorry Roma.

 

[gsxr]

If buying used... I'd consider a 400E/E420 transmission, which should have lived an easier life behind the smaller motor. Plus you get FGS as a bonus. The 124.034 tranny is 100% plug & play in the 500E and there should be more of them available. As with any used transmission, the biggest problem is that you don't know if it shifts properly, until it's installed...

 

[Roma_500E]

Or option #4 - source another used transmission out of a 500E or compatible car, i.e. from a junkyard or other source.

That is tricky option , called few places and most of them do not care and have no idea about what they are selling. Nobody was able to give me simple info if it drives properly back and forth . All I got is general answer by clueless lady " We checked our stuff Sir" .... Though I ve checked only few places ....

1) Jono (still has to check)
2) MB delaer - 2900 + 1130 trq. coverter
3) Steve's suggestion - sold
4) Junk yards (will try to find something reasonable)

Does anybody on board have a good tranny ? I know few people have a shop here and they buy sometimes nice parts car ...

 

[gsxr]

Most junkyards do a casual test (if any) on driveable cars when they arrive, then dismantle the car and put stuff on a shelf until it sells. But that's no guarantee the transmission will shift correctly unless it's a REALLY good place that knows what they're doing.

BTW - for any claimed low-miles used transmission, get the VIN of the donor car and run an AutoCheck/CarFax to see if the mileage claim is legit. Might be easier to find a cheap 400E on Craigslist that has a good tranny and buy that.

Here's a good used transmission for $1k, and it comes with a free car:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...TER-PARTS-CAR-1992-400E-1000-in-North-Georgia

 

[Roma_500E]

Most junkyards do a casual test (if any) on driveable cars when they arrive, then dismantle the car and put stuff on a shelf until it sells. But that's no guarantee the transmission will shift correctly unless it's a REALLY good place that knows what they're doing.

BTW - for any claimed low-miles used transmission, get the VIN of the donor car and run an AutoCheck/CarFax to see if the mileage claim is legit. Might be easier to find a cheap 400E on Craigslist that has a good tranny and buy that.

Here's a good used transmission for $1k, and it comes with a free car:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...TER-PARTS-CAR-1992-400E-1000-in-North-Georgia

To get a nice tranny with a donor car , the donor car itself should be well taken care of (at least mechanically) or be the low mileage, any low mileage vehicle is at least 2000+ for this amount of money I would rather get a tranny from MB dealer with no hassle. Also it double labor to take if off from two cars. In addition what I gotta to do with the junk after that ? lol

Thanx for the tip on carfax check , indeed many people in this business are crooks, especially foreigners. However, carfax might not really provide an accurate information .

 

[gsxr]

All good points. But if you have either space to store the parts car, or time & space to store parts from it, some of the 400E stuff is usable on the 500E (i.e., the cataly$t pipe, ASR & BM modules, misc engine parts, etc). If you don't have the time or space, then yeah, it's not worth the hassle. The main advantage to buying the entire (running) car is that you can test drive it and make SURE the used tranny shifts good BEFORE you bother swapping anything.

CarFax / AutoCheck can help show if the donor car has actual mileage much higher than claimed. For example, if the junkyard says a transmission came out of a car with 75kmi, and you get the VIN of the donor, and the report shows a bunch of inspections or emissions tests with reported mileage well over 100kmi... you know it's damned unlikely the transmission has the claimed 75k. Sometimes the reports have no useful data, but it's usually worth checking.

I think the closest you'll get to zero-hassle would be the dealership. I've heard rumor and speculation that factory rebuilds are not as good as factory new, but I bet they are 10x better than most no-name rebuilds. And if the dealer installs it, they'll also cover labor for warranty work at any dealership nationwide (not a big deal if you don't travel much, but hey, you never know).

 

[gerryvz]

It's a fact that factory rebuilds are not as good as new. I have heard this over the years from several knowledgeable sources who have bought them and said this. And while they may be better than no-name rebuilds, and they may have a warranty, I'd still trust a rebuild from a specialist like Jono above a dealer rebuilt unit.

Honestly, I think the best bet would be a documented, original unit from a low miles car. If you could find one from a wrecked car with less than 75K on it, that would be nirvana in terms of overall condition of the transmission, and the price Unfortunately, it would take some time/patience to score one of these gems.

In the absence of that, Jono is your man.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Roma_500E]

It's a fact that factory rebuilds are not as good as new. I have heard this over the years from several knowledgeable sources who have bought them and said this. And while they may be better than no-name rebuilds, and they may have a warranty, I'd still trust a rebuild from a specialist like Jono above a dealer rebuilt unit.

Honestly, I think the best bet would be a documented, original unit from a low miles car. If you could find one from a wrecked car with less than 75K on it, that would be nirvana in terms of overall condition of the transmission, and the price Unfortunately, it would take some time/patience to score one of these gems.

In the absence of that, Jono is your man.

Cheers,
Gerry

Well if it is a really true so I would rather pass on factory tranny basically because I do not want to spend $4K for somewhat good tranny rebuild.

So far I m waiting for response from Blue Ridge MB and trying to locate some good low mileage used trannies.

Thanx for the heads up guys .

 

[Roma_500E]

Al right , I decided to go with the MB dealer rebuild transmission, no hassle and still credible source with the warranty.

I ll report how is transmission and how everything works after installation so that people will know if it is good option to fix the tranny through dealer.

 

[alexis]

Hi,
Very interested to know what they will charge you.
Normally, you should get a discount in exchange of the previous gearbox.
Alex

 

[Roma_500E]

Hi,
Very interested to know what they will charge you.
Normally, you should get a discount in exchange of the previous gearbox.
Alex

My total cost out of a door $2750 + $1600 (estimated labor charge). According to dealer their cost $2680. So it looks like I get a great price.

 

[gsxr]

$200 per hour labor? Yikes. It's 8 hours labor tops, if you've never done it before. A good tech should be able to R&R in 6 hours, maybe less. Strange.

 

[Roma_500E]

$200 per hour labor? Yikes. It's 8 hours labor tops, if you've never done it before. A good tech should be able to R&R in 6 hours, maybe less. Strange.

That is the estimate. They always tell me sky high estimate just to be safe. In reality it is much less once they done with the car. So for the tranny they said between 1200 and 1600. As far as I understand they charge by book time (so it does not matter how long does it take in reality). So guy mentioned about 10 book hours + tranny fluid and may be something else.

I believe they charge either $144 or $169 per hour, not sure.

 

[Maui]

Yikes, that is some serious cash for a rebuild. You can buy a new one from Parts.com for $3600. I would be curious to know if they actually do the work or just pull it and give to a local rebuilder. There is a local shop here that does all the indi shops rebuilds and does most of the dealer's work. They quoted me $2800 max including R&R and complete rebuild. Two year warranty as long as you have them or reputable shop change fluid once a year. Fortunately I got lucky and did not need the rebuild, yet.

 

[Roma_500E]

Yikes, that is some serious cash for a rebuild.

You can buy a new one from Parts.com for $3600.

I believe there is no brand new transmission for these cars. All of them are rebuild , factory or shop or whatever.

I would be curious to know if they actually do the work or just pull it and give to a local rebuilder. There is a local shop here that does all the indi shops rebuilds and does most of the dealer's work. They quoted me $2800 max including R&R and complete rebuild. Two year warranty as long as you have them or reputable shop change fluid once a year. Fortunately I got lucky and did not need the rebuild, yet.

Well I m curious too. I do not know who and where rebuild it. I hope it is a good rebuild otherwise I ll be really pissed off after spending $4K.
The funny thing is what are they going to do with my old tranny cuz most likely it is not rebuildable .

 

[gerryvz]

MBUSA farms all of their rebuilds out to a small group of "trusted" rebuilders in the US. They do not do this work themselves.

I also believe you are correct -- all "new" transmissions for the 036 are, in fact, rebuilt units sold by MBUSA. There are no "new old stock" transmissions.

 

[alexis]

I also believe you are correct -- all "new" transmissions for the 036 are, in fact, rebuilt units sold by MBUSA. There are no "new old stock" transmissions.

Which is a good thing in my mind for the 1994 models as their transmissions are known to be "weak".
Alex

 

[gsxr]

Which is a good thing in my mind for the 1994 models as their transmissions are known to be "weak".
Alex

I think this is another myth, same as the claim that "facelift" models are of lesser quality...

 

[szvook]

Funny thing is, we don't hear that much of the "pre-facelift" models being of lesser quality when mentioned in comparison to the "facelift" models. Plastic oil tubes come to mind..., open deck block that can't be explored beyond 5.0L (the cost of that exploration is north of $25K, but that's not the freakin point).

 

[gsxr]

Plastic oil tubes were phased in late 92 and early 93 production, so that affected the supposedly-better pre-facelift cars too.

I consider the open/closed deck thing irrelevant since I have yet to hear of ANYONE who actually has shelled out for a 6.0 upgrade, and had to buy a different motor because theirs was open-deck. (The open-deck blocks started in early/mid 1994 production, so some early facelift models - like my 94 E500 - still have closed-deck blocks.) The 119.98x motors used through 1999 were all open deck blocks and they do not experience higher failure rates compared to the earlier closed-deck versions.

 

[Glen]

Funny thing is, we don't hear that much of the "pre-facelift" models being of lesser quality when mentioned in comparison to the "facelift" models. Plastic oil tubes come to mind..., open deck block that can't be explored beyond 5.0L (the cost of that exploration is north of $25K, but that's not the freakin point).

Oh please. The reason is because some pre-facelift owners have always been jealous of the later cars. Years ago, there was a significant price difference between pre-facelift and facelift cars so early owners liked to claim that the later cars weren't as good, often citing that MB quality went down in the mid-90s and the E500 was the first victim of cost cutting. Some even claimed that Porsche was not involved in production of the later cars. We know better now, of course and values are based on mileage and condition rather than production year.

 

[DerFuror]

My total cost out of a door $2750 + $1600 (estimated labor charge). According to dealer their cost $2680. So it looks like I get a great price.

Get'er done. No big deal. That's only the equivalent of three pairs of shoes you would have bought your woman!

 

[DerFuror]

Oh please. The reason is because some pre-facelift owners have always been jealous of the later cars. Years ago, there was a significant price difference between pre-facelift and facelift cars so early owners liked to claim that the later cars weren't as good, often citing that MB quality went down in the mid-90s and the E500 was the first victim of cost cutting. Some even claimed that Porsche was not involved in production of the later cars. We know better now, of course and values are based on mileage and condition rather than production year.

The E500E was the last of the truly affordable "Das Beste o der nichts" that MB had to offer. The only real advantage post-facelift has over original design is the abiility to plug & play a more advanced head unit. Yes?

 

[Roma_500E]

Oh please. The reason is because some pre-facelift owners have always been jealous of the later cars. Years ago, there was a significant price difference between pre-facelift and facelift cars so early owners liked to claim that the later cars weren't as good, often citing that MB quality went down in the mid-90s and the E500 was the first victim of cost cutting. Some even claimed that Porsche was not involved in production of the later cars. We know better now, of course and values are based on mileage and condition rather than production year.

Pffff, it is all matter of taste. In my personal experience what I really was looking for is flared fenders either face-lifted or pre-facelifted. As long as car is in a great shape and does have euro lights(92-93) I am good. However, I would not say I like pre-face lift more that face lifted. Although, 744 or 009 Limiteds are truly piece of art

The other good thing about pre-face lifted vehicles is that they become rarer and rarer cuz
1. being older some of them ended broken/crashed/died
2. lots of people converted to face lifted
3. overseas, especially in ex-USSR countries all 036 are converted to face lifted. So i f I bring my car back home it will super rare if not only one pre face lifted 500E.

 

[Roma_500E]

Get'er done. No big deal. That's only the equivalent of three pairs of shoes you would have bought your woman!

Exactly, the problem here is that I still may have to buy shoes

Anyway , now I m trying to find fluid locally cuz I m planning to get it done by the end of the next week. Place where I bought 16 qrts is out of fluid .

 

[Glen]

The E500E was the last of the truly affordable "Das Beste o der nichts" that MB had to offer. The only real advantage post-facelift has over original design is the abiility to plug & play a more advanced head unit. Yes?

It all depends on what you want. The facelift cars, like you mention are easier to upgrade the head unit, they also have dual power mirrors, larger front brakes, and of course the face lift, assuming you like/want it. The best model is the one you like better, it's that simple.

 

[Roma_500E]

It all depends on what you want. The facelift cars, like you mention are easier to upgrade the head unit, they also have dual power mirrors, larger front brakes, and of course the face lift, assuming you like/want it. The best model is the one you like better, it's that simple.

+1

 

[DerFuror]

It all depends on what you want. The facelift cars, like you mention are easier to upgrade the head unit, they also have dual power mirrors, larger front brakes, and of course the face lift, assuming you like/want it. The best model is the one you like better, it's that simple.

Agreed, Sir. Yet I'm pleased my 500E is a late MY93 (040) with both dual power mirrors & the larger front brakes.

I’m not casting stones regarding post-facelift, but I grew up with & have always had MBs (regardless of overall HP) with a big-ass grille that non-verbally said to whomever viewed it in their rear view mirror, “Hey, muther f*cker, you certainly know what I am. Get the hell back over into the stinkin’ right lane where you belong!”

So I’m a bit skewed when it comes to the seemingly overwhelming popularity of the post-facelift cars…I have to look thrice (hard to do in the lead at high speed) to confirm that the perceived Acura or Mustang behind me really is an E500!

PS: What the hell is a CVT?

 

[Roma_500E]

PS: What the hell is a CVT?

CVT - Continuously Variable Transmission . This is used on hybrid cars. Basically there is no gears, sort of 1 speed tranny.

 

[DerFuror]

CVT - Continuously Variable Transmission . This is used on hybrid cars. Basically there is no gears, sort of 1 speed tranny.

Thank you for enlightening me regarding that acronym, and I thank (the Diety of my choice) that I'll never be inflicted by one of those diety-forsaken PC hybid (et al) abberations. Gads!

 

[Maui]

Hey now, my wife drives a 2013 Lexus CT200h and digs it. (I guess the chicks dig hybrids) She loves getting 49 mpg on regular fuel. Not for me, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[Roma_500E]

Hey now, my wife drives a 2013 Lexus CT200h and digs it. (I guess the chicks dig hybrids) She loves getting 49 mpg on regular fuel. Not for me, but whatever floats your boat.

Hybrid is fun to drive and I actually drove Civic Hybrid and was able to get 52 MPG with very conservative driving and 55mph avg speed.

Lexus CT200h smells so terrible inside. It made of extremely cheap vinyl or rubber. I do not know how you guys are able to drive it.

 

[gerryvz]

Thankfully, hybrids are a fairly rare sight here in Texas, so I don't have to lay my eyes on them too often.

As opposed to the Portland area, where every other car is either some sort of hybrid, or a Subaru.

 

[Maui]

Thankfully, hybrids are a fairly rare sight here in Texas, so I don't have to lay my eyes on them too often.

As opposed to the Portland area, where every other car is either some sort of hybrid, or a Subaru.

Portlandia. Although no one could ever mistake my wife for an Oregon liberal. She makes Rush look like a democrat.

[video=youtube;ErRHJlE4PGI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErRHJlE4PGI[/video]