Bolt on performance exhaust for the 500e (testing waters)

[Sellc]

Thanks Gerry,

I've looked at the ones in the video already, but I'm still having a hard time deciding if I want to go catless.

We no longer have air/emissions inspections over here, but I'm mostly concerned about the volume.

I would love for a raw V8 sounding exhaust, but it would be bad if it is excessively loud.

Can anyone explain to a newbie like me, whether I should go catless or go with cats?

Hello,

I don't want to steer this thread away from it's main purpose, or contradict anyone's ideals or expectations, but there are some proofs to consider before you pay your way to a little-bit-of rumble....

1 I would advise you to go with the cat-less option. It will enhance your potential to make HP, especially in the lower to mid RPM ranges. You've eliminated some ( maybe even 1/2 of your ) back-pressure.

2 All V-8's require a full-length twin system, as the volume of the exhaust system can hold more spent gas, & rid it sooner, before back-pressure costs you pumping losses at your piston crown, since your piston & crank start pushing the exhaust waste out, instead of turning your wheels...

3 These engines are too precise in refinement due to electronic intervention to extract any more HP from exhaust modifications, though bottom-end to mid-range potential will be enhanced. This means no peak-power increase is possible / negligible. These babies are pre-set & can't be altered, unless you take the friction modifying route...( But that's for elsewhere ).

4 I would recommend a full maximum diameter twin system running the full length of the vehicle, & into a twin pipe inlet / outlet rear muffler. Ensure that the muffler inlet & outlet pipes are the same diameter.

5 Think of this, a V-8 purging all its exhaust into a single pipe gives us around 8,000 slugs of exhaust pulses to deal with at 2,000 RPM. 16,000 slugs at 4,000 RPM. And 24,000 slugs at 6,000 RPM, all fighting their way out to the atmosphere. At WOT, these slugs are huge & long blasts, that interfere with each other & cause HUGE increases in back-pressure, & loss of potential power at WOT.

With a full length twin system, your interference of pulses & thus back pressure is halved, ( or at least significantly reduced ) & thus, potential to gain extra power is potentially doubled. It's pretty obvious I think yes ?....

6 This excess back-pressure has the potential to even hold exhaust valves off their seats, especially if valve springs are worn & don't hold their seating pressure, though very unlikely. ( eg 5.0 bar back pressure = approx. 75 psi. Some valve springs have a seat pressure of 90 psi depending on manufacturers etc ).

Once again, these are my personal thoughts, explained very simply with simple maths as proofs / real-possibility, & I do not wish to sway anyone in their considerations. But when the price that's paid for some stuff, is equal to or greater than what a custom set of twin big-pipes, (even into a genuine MB twin-rear-muffler ) into a twin-rear-muffler is concerned, you need options to think about. And you need to recognize that the only power-gains that will be made due to computer design criteria will be in the lower to mid RPM ranges, with this engine.

Seriously folks, IMHO, it's got to be a full-length twin system, or your only going to be chasing a different exhaust note !

Kind regards, & no disrespect,

Sellc

 

[Lynch]

Figured I'd ask here, since I'm still very interested in this exhaust system, and am contemplating going with HJS race cats.

Any particular reason that we should go with the normal version cat over the HD version cat?

The HD version is advertised for newer cars, have a special coating on them for more durability, but they also recommend the older normal one for our cars.

Is there any reason not to go with the HD version? Perhaps it is dimensionally longer/does not fit right, or possibly could have worse airflow or something, figured I'd ask!

Normal version:
http://www.hjsna.com/products/HJS-High-Flow-200-C.P.S.I.-Universal-Tuning-Catalyst-9095-0080.html

HD version:
http://www.hjsna.com/hjs-hi-flow-200-c-p-s-i-universal-tuning-catalyst-hd-9095-0165/

Another question I got is that, do these HJS Race Cats actually require changing out sooner than normal cats? Do they burn out and become useless? They're expensive and have great airflow, but it would suck if they require changing in around 20,000 km.

Cheers

 

[jouniu]

Quite expensive cats, how about these: http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/vpe-7102 ?

 

[500AMM]

Figured I'd ask here, since I'm still very interested in this exhaust system, and am contemplating going with HJS race cats.

Any particular reason that we should go with the normal version cat over the HD version cat?

The HD version is advertised for newer cars, have a special coating on them for more durability, but they also recommend the older normal one for our cars.

Is there any reason not to go with the HD version? Perhaps it is dimensionally longer/does not fit right, or possibly could have worse airflow or something, figured I'd ask!

Normal version:
http://www.hjsna.com/products/HJS-High-Flow-200-C.P.S.I.-Universal-Tuning-Catalyst-9095-0080.html

HD version:
http://www.hjsna.com/hjs-hi-flow-200-c-p-s-i-universal-tuning-catalyst-hd-9095-0165/

Another question I got is that, do these HJS Race Cats actually require changing out sooner than normal cats? Do they burn out and become useless? They're expensive and have great airflow, but it would suck if they require changing in around 20,000 km.

Cheers

In accordance to HJSs' specs is HD cats for newer cars MY 2008 and up, while regular version is for MY 2007 and back. I find no reason to question Steve's experience & recommendations about cats given in post #403 (which I quote'd in post #500).

 

[5thscaleracer]

Thought i would throw this out there for those that might be interested in a cost effective exhaust solution

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Br...ash=item2a469b0a9e:g:zJQAAOSweW5VONyj&vxp=mtr

 

[Melville]

Thought i would throw this out there for those that might be interested in a cost effective exhaust solution

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Br...ash=item2a469b0a9e:g:zJQAAOSweW5VONyj&vxp=mtr

Looks like the seller, Zibi1988, is a board member. He bought and repaired the car that hit a deer (and which generated some controversy):

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7958

 

[Lynch]

Was just wondering, do we have any options for stainless steel headers? Not sure if this an appropriate place to ask, or if there is any interest - I am definitely interested.

 

[Zuffenhausen]

Rather than reinventing the wheel why not just buy the MB euro non kat pipes and send them to Jet Hot?
124 490 1920 is the part number for the pipes and 124 492 5941 is the part number for the transmission bracket.

Pics from Dave's excellent site.
http://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/exhaust/500E_exhaust_non-cat1.jpg

Kind Regards,

Ron

Those MB euro kat pipes available in the US?

 

[gsxr]

Those MB euro kat pipes available in the US?

Not from USA dealers, but you can order from Germany. Not cheap anymore at €780 excluding VAT, plus shipping. It had been around €200 or so. Bolts right up to the stock resonator.

http://partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com/parts/A1244901920

 

[Lynch]

Just wondering, have anyone considered 100 cel cats for an aftermarket exhaust like this? Would be curious if it would be a better idea than to get 200 cel cats.

 

[5thscaleracer]

FYI this is what the finished product looks like of the front section with Catalyst

These are CA Smog legal cats which will pass smog.

 

[5thscaleracer]

factory look turn down tip rear section
https://goo.gl/photos/z77KiizEjxSBnjT78
https://goo.gl/photos/WYWb5sk7frZYm8po8

 

[gerryvz]

Hey 5SR ...

Glad you're still with us !! Thanks for the posts! I was beginning to think you'd disappeared on us.

 

[gsxr]

factory look turn down tip rear section

Images aren't working, they appear to be linking to a Google account... can you upload the IMG_xxx files directly?

 

[5thscaleracer]

Hey 5SR ...

Glad you're still with us !! Thanks for the posts! I was beginning to think you'd disappeared on us.

nope still around just doing other projects on other platforms

Images aren't working, they appear to be linking to a Google account... can you upload the IMG_xxx files directly?

there seems to be a disconnect...

I try to upload by "managing attachments" i see the upload status go to 100% but the images don't populate?

 

[gerryvz]

Images may be too large in pixel or file size.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gsxr]

Your new links worked! I also uploaded them as attachments.

 

[borring]

I made my own as my budget don't allow such luxury.

Mine is build out of a 400E pipe with cat delete and magnaflow cats and X, Y Pipes.
My muffer is still stock but it might be replaced with Magnaflow as well.

 

[gerryvz]

NEEEEED Butt Dyno Test Results!!!

 

[Raffaelli]

Very nice

 

[jeff0093]

Looks nice what is the current costs for both sections? Are these ready to ship?

 

[5thscaleracer]

Looks nice what is the current costs for both sections? Are these ready to ship?

My Kits are ready to ship....

Contact Matt @ Leistung Autohaus for pricing and shipping info.

Sales@Leistungautohaus.com

 

[poormans500E]

Yes I will dyno the car before and after and if gains are not made then one lucky guy will get a sweet sounding exhaust and the project will be scrapped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

so almost a year and a half into production and still no dyno proven results (despite repeated requests)? hmm...

 

[gsxr]

I'm assuming the power gains are minimal, if any. The primary advantage here is appearance & sound, which is fine. Still, it would be nice to see dyno results on a 500E where nothing was changed except the exhaust.

Prices from last spring / summer were $1500 cat-back, or $3000 manifold-back (buried in older posts in this thread).

 

[gerryvz]

 

[Lynch]

5thscaleracer, I've sent you an email!

Hope you can get back once you have a chance.

Looking to have a set of front and rear sections with HJS cats. I feel that would be as close to a modernly designed OEM system as possible.

 

[Taxi Driver]

I'm assuming the power gains are minimal, if any. The primary advantage here is appearance & sound, which is fine. Still, it would be nice to see dyno results on a 500E where nothing was changed except the exhaust.

Prices from last spring / summer were $1500 cat-back, or $3000 manifold-back (buried in older posts in this thread).

I am not, going to take down this effort to make a good aftermarket exh. but what you can do aft of motor, you have to do twice as much on the motor
itself, as it has clearly been showing what AMG and others did, not only bore and stroke, they did spend increadibly much time, blueprinting the 119.

I am still very surpriced to what I found inside and considering yet, how Little they did to the exhaust, yes I saw BRABUS did some sport/race
cat's on the 6.5 but again thats about it. Anyone can do a Little here and a Little there but don't expect too much. Roger

 

[5thscaleracer]

so almost a year and a half into production and still no dyno proven results (despite repeated requests)? hmm...

I have had 2 customers that stated they would supply 3rd party dyno runs of before and after... these customers still have not installed their exhaust kit???

locally here i was not able to borrow a 500E to dyno before and after, the one i had a chance with would not be a good comparison because we ended up porting his head when the engine was rebuilt.

So i am still looking for a car...

 

[Lynch]

I have had 2 customers that stated they would supply 3rd party dyno runs of before and after... these customers still have not installed their exhaust kit???

locally here i was not able to borrow a 500E to dyno before and after, the one i had a chance with would not be a good comparison because we ended up porting his head when the engine was rebuilt.

So i am still looking for a car...

I have a low mileage E500 with the original M119, and I can definitely help out with a before and after dyno.

That said, I am still figuring out which is the best cat solution for my application (I have emailed a few companies to speak with their engineers), and it will be a while before we can get the exhaust system in my hands, but I will definitely help with the before and after dyno runs when it happens.

 

[gsxr]

Kevin, that would be awesome if you could dyno the car before & after! Note that after changing the exhaust, I would drive the car for several hundred miles (the longer the better) with some full-throttle time, to let the engine computer adjust to the change in exhaust flow. Probably will only be a few percent, but every little bit helps.

If you haven't seen this yet, check out the thread below on how to prep your E500E for the dyno, and how to get the most consistent / reliable data:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2452

 

[gerryvz]

5SR needs that dyno information to open up the sales floodgates for these exhaust systems !!!

 

[Maui]

I installed the catback system on my 500E when they first hit the market. I didn't feel any seat of the pants difference but I love the sound. It has a nice rumble that I like and there is no drone. The fit and finish is excellent and if Matt at Leistung is putting his reputation on the line that was enough for me.

 

[5thscaleracer]

5SR needs that dyno information to open up the sales floodgates for these exhaust systems !!!

actually i don't need the floodgates to open up lol we are running low on the kits and when they are gone they are gone...

We have the W124 wagons, and sedans next in line for development.

 

[gerryvz]

Crap, guess I'd better get off my duff and get one of those 5SR exhausts. Maybe in July after I get back from my 2016 Euro Tour. Do you still have a Brabus-tipped system left?

 

[5thscaleracer]

Crap, guess I'd better get off my duff and get one of those 5SR exhausts. Maybe in July after I get back from my 2016 Euro Tour. Do you still have a Brabus-tipped system left?

i think i have 1 left... need to verify if i do shall i hold it?

 

[5thscaleracer]

Checked inventory.

What is available.
No more brabus tips
2 dual round
4 factory turn down tips
4 front sections w/o cats
2 front sections w/cats

 

[Lynch]

5SR, put me down for a set of front and rear. I've sent you an email.

 

[5thscaleracer]

inventory Update

No more brabus tips
2 dual round
3 factory turn down tips
3 front sections w/o cats
2 front sections w/cats

 

[gerryvz]

Thanks, 5SR.

From now on, your title shall be "Sir 5SR" in these parts.

 

[5thscaleracer]

HAHAHAHA.... nice...

 

[Klink]

Will you be able to build more after your inventory is gone?

 

[Lynch]

Just wanted to quickly touch upon what I've been up to.

I've gotten in touch with Sven Kampmann, the product manager at HJS, and requested a recommendation from their team on what would be the correct/suitable catalyst converters for our cars and this particular exhaust.

Sven has suggested the HJS 9095 0080 model (two) and does not recommend the "HD" variants, as they are for modern cars or older cars with compressors.

Why am I insistent on using HJS while the cats that 5SR have used are already good?
The reason is because I've had good experiences HJS in the past, as their catalyst converters are manufactured by Emitec, one of the larger metal catalysts producer, and are the same quality and ones that are supplied to many OEM factories (BMW, Porsche, VW, MB, AMG, Mclaren, Bugatti, Toyota, the list goes on).

I wanted to use a catalyst that was 200 CPSI but designed to be durable enough to withstand the heat cycles of daily usage (I do not daily drive the E500) without the cores falling apart prematurely.

Link to the 9095 0080:
http://www.hjsna.com/products/HJS-High-Flow-200-C.P.S.I.-Universal-Tuning-Catalyst-9095-0080.html

I have just sent an email to Sir 5SR, and hope to have him fabricate a cat section using these.
I am very excited about this, and can't wait for it to become a reality and have it installed.

 

[5thscaleracer]

Will you be able to build more after your inventory is gone?

yes if there is enough demand to justify a production run of 10 units.
After all of the kits are sold we probably won't do another run for 2 years.

This first run we made 30 kits

 

[Lynch]

I've sent the payment for the front and rear section. VERY EXCITED!!!

I opted for the factory-style turn-down tips, but I've been very curious. What is the appeal with the Brabus-style tips?

I know on the E30 M3 DTM exhausts, they have the tips turning up for a bit more "downforce", which is a funny design.

I also know a lot of the G-wagons (I'm a big W463 fan), the factory style tips are also turn-down styles, and are quieter than the AMG-style "pointing out" side pipes.

I wonder if the turn-down tips will have a different sound bouncing off the ground, vs the Brabus style.

 

[Lynch]

Finally got a moment to open the packages and check what I received.

I'm at a lost for words. Everything is super clean, neatly welded, and well-designed.

5SR really knocked the ball out of the park with this one. Will be looking at getting it installed soon.

Thanks again JC!

 

[500AMM]

That looks great!

Did you get it with the HJS cats?

 

[Christian_K]

Finally got a moment to open the packages and check what I received.

I'm at a lost for words. Everything is super clean, neatly welded, and well-designed.

5SR really knocked the ball out of the park with this one. Will be looking at getting it installed soon.

Thanks again JC!

Dyno tested yet?

 

[JC220]

Just something to note for those interested in aftermarket performance exhausts, I recently purchased a Stainless Fox Germany Cat back system for my 500E which was made new to order. I did extensive searching and Fox are pretty much the only company left producing factory made E500E bolt on performance exhausts. I placed an order half expecting it to be cancelled / NLA but 5 weeks later it turned up.


A video of the sound, photos & all details are documented on my owner's thread here for the benefit of members. (See post #425.)

 

[gsxr]

RB Tech in SoCal did a custom exhaust with 200-cell cats on a 500E a few years ago which sounded pretty sweet. Don't know what the cost was and I think you'd have to bring your car there for installation. Anyway - here's a vid:

[video=youtube;CJhGE-bEJWw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJhGE-bEJWw[/video]

 

[5thscaleracer]

Dyno tested yet?

No those that said they would dyno for me have not installed the exhaust yet and done any dyno testing.

those that have installed and are using the exhaust are enjoying it

i am down to 3 units left. and 5 front sections.