and my un-hard hat is off to them for that. I hope to hear one in person one day...
I've heard your "hat" is "un-hard......
-
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Bolt on performance exhaust for the 500e (testing waters)
- Thread starter 5thscaleracer
- Start date
I've heard your "hat" is "un-hard......
I've heard your "hat" is "un-hard......
I knew you would grab that and run with it, but I am awarding anyway.
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CY is hereby REVOKED for being a "softball"I knew you would grab that and run with it, but I am awarding anyway.
Front sections design has been finalized Material was ordered yesterday.
So I hope to have a full manifold back exhaust in 4-5 weeks time.
We have designed the front section to remain very modular so if you need to smog your car you can bolt up the factory cat section (right side) to the new pipes. The new short section pipe on the drivers side will bolt up to the factory cat which is from the passenger side manifold to the rear muffler.
Test pipes are provided and we are able to supply 200cpsi cats for track use.
What is unknown now is sound... With the cats removed there is a possibility that the exhaust might drone. A resonator has been created and will be used only if needed.
So I hope to have a full manifold back exhaust in 4-5 weeks time.
We have designed the front section to remain very modular so if you need to smog your car you can bolt up the factory cat section (right side) to the new pipes. The new short section pipe on the drivers side will bolt up to the factory cat which is from the passenger side manifold to the rear muffler.
Test pipes are provided and we are able to supply 200cpsi cats for track use.
What is unknown now is sound... With the cats removed there is a possibility that the exhaust might drone. A resonator has been created and will be used only if needed.
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Good work Mr. Racer! Thanks for the regular updates.
Hey, I was wondering ... are you related to Mr. Speed Racer? Cousins, perhaps?
more like
Hahaha. Yes it is.I see, and Matt/Leistung would be:
It's me again!
We should have first article of the front pipe for test fitment by Next Friday if all goes according to plan i should have pictures up by Saturday/Sunday.
The only thing we are waiting on are the laser beam cut flanges so assembly can begin.
I've got a lead on a full renntech exhaust that was taken off a 500E that I can inquire about on your behalf if someone might be interested. I believe its currently in Brooklyn. You can PM me and I'll reach out to the owner for more details. I was going to take it in partial trade for my 190E but decided I didn't want it. Thought someone else maybe interested.
It's been a bit quiet on my part and here is the reason why...
The front section was finished and test fitted...
What was discovered:
- the 500E sounds like a big block V8 with a mid RAW growl SEXY
- With out a resonator or Catalysts the sound starts to become more pronounced in the cabin. Compared to just the cat back exhaust which has virtually little to no sound, having the full manifold back the 500E sounds like a Hot Rod. Similar to a C63 with an exhaust nice rumble on idle and a MOVE B!_CH get out the way ROAR when you are on it.
- Personally it's borderline cell phone friendly inside the cabin, some might think its perfect but for me it's on the loud side.
- There is a noticeable difference in performance when comparing the cat back section VS the full Manifold back exhaust.
With our recent discoveries the original plan has changed slightly.
- Front section will be offered with out cats but flanged off for anyone who wants to use a cost effective aftermarket Cat (magnaflo, Walker, etc).
- The front section will still be factory cat friendly (100% bolt on), the new S pipe on the drivers side will work with the factory catalyst.
New option:
- An Optional Euro 3/4 500CPI free flowing cat will be available, this is designed for Smog testing and daily use. This cat will act as a resonator to lower the DB at the same time be EPA compliant. Similar to the factory design it will be two individual catalysts running parallel. They will be flanged at the front/back so you can switch from test pipe (cat delete) or Cat section.
Price on the Cat Option is being finalized as we speak being Euro Compliant these are not cheap units commonly found at your local Muffler shop.
New sound files are to follow once we build the cat section and finalize the front section once more. Things are moving slowly due to other projects but my goal is to finalize the exhaust variations by June 2015.
Just so everyone is aware current inventory
Cat back exhaust:
3 Brabus style Tip <one just sold yesterday 4-16-2015
3 Dual Round Tip
10 Factory Turn Down Tip
Front Section:
10 are currently scheduled to be produced once the catalyst fitment is finalized.
Catalyst will be built to order
The front section was finished and test fitted...
What was discovered:
- the 500E sounds like a big block V8 with a mid RAW growl SEXY
- With out a resonator or Catalysts the sound starts to become more pronounced in the cabin. Compared to just the cat back exhaust which has virtually little to no sound, having the full manifold back the 500E sounds like a Hot Rod. Similar to a C63 with an exhaust nice rumble on idle and a MOVE B!_CH get out the way ROAR when you are on it.
- Personally it's borderline cell phone friendly inside the cabin, some might think its perfect but for me it's on the loud side.
- There is a noticeable difference in performance when comparing the cat back section VS the full Manifold back exhaust.
With our recent discoveries the original plan has changed slightly.
- Front section will be offered with out cats but flanged off for anyone who wants to use a cost effective aftermarket Cat (magnaflo, Walker, etc).
- The front section will still be factory cat friendly (100% bolt on), the new S pipe on the drivers side will work with the factory catalyst.
New option:
- An Optional Euro 3/4 500CPI free flowing cat will be available, this is designed for Smog testing and daily use. This cat will act as a resonator to lower the DB at the same time be EPA compliant. Similar to the factory design it will be two individual catalysts running parallel. They will be flanged at the front/back so you can switch from test pipe (cat delete) or Cat section.
Price on the Cat Option is being finalized as we speak being Euro Compliant these are not cheap units commonly found at your local Muffler shop.
New sound files are to follow once we build the cat section and finalize the front section once more. Things are moving slowly due to other projects but my goal is to finalize the exhaust variations by June 2015.
Just so everyone is aware current inventory
Cat back exhaust:
3 Brabus style Tip <one just sold yesterday 4-16-2015
3 Dual Round Tip
10 Factory Turn Down Tip
Front Section:
10 are currently scheduled to be produced once the catalyst fitment is finalized.
Catalyst will be built to order
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And the drone has gone. This helmholtz resonator actually works. It may look stupid but it works, that is 2" pipe and 32" long.
Last edited by a moderator:
Small update
Front section with 50 state and E3/E4 euro compliant catalysts.
Rear section with Brabus style tip.
FYI front sections ship with test pipes. Catalysts are built to order at an additional cost.
How about a sound bite?
What does your muffler system consist of?
If it works a perfect place to install it on a 500E with cat-back system would be where the stock resonator resides. At least on my car.
Does 5thscaleracer have an opinion on this device?
Helmholtz works in canceling exhaust frequencies...
Usually it's tuned to reduce a specific exhaust note, the over all exhaust will still be very loud and boomy during acceleration but cruising at a steady speed becomes acceptable due to the coke bottle frequency cancelation.
Helmholtz does have it's limitations....
- Helmholtz can only be tuned at a specific frequency so the effective range is exact. Its really only used to cancel drone and not control over all exhaust loudness.
- depending on size of the hole and length of the resonance pipe used it might disrupt exhaust flow
- Tuning it is a bitch! even with the proper calculations it's still a trial and error type situation.
Bottom line is if you can tune a muffler specific to an engine application then there is no need for Helmholtz design.
More car porn
Downpipes has been enlarged slightly from 50mm to 54mm,
Front break away point matches the factory cat so those who still have a good catalyst can swap the factory part for smog tests.
As you can see the optional catalyst is flanged, so if you opt to buy the new cat test pipes can easily be swapped in and out.
Pipe specifics:
Right after the manifolds they are 54mm
The collector is 54mm to 63mm oval pipe then it splits back to a 54mm pipe.
Slip connectors are 50mm (factory size which allows you to bolt the rear section to the factory catalyst)
rear exhaust pipe is 63mm
Downpipes has been enlarged slightly from 50mm to 54mm,
Front break away point matches the factory cat so those who still have a good catalyst can swap the factory part for smog tests.
As you can see the optional catalyst is flanged, so if you opt to buy the new cat test pipes can easily be swapped in and out.
Pipe specifics:
Right after the manifolds they are 54mm
The collector is 54mm to 63mm oval pipe then it splits back to a 54mm pipe.
Slip connectors are 50mm (factory size which allows you to bolt the rear section to the factory catalyst)
rear exhaust pipe is 63mm
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Yes
The front X over pipe has a little more room, it was moved forward slightly and tucked higher up.
100% correct. This helmholz only helps when cruising 50..70mph. My other components are metallic race catalysator and ~50cm long oval straight muffler at rear, that will be replaced by Eisenmann rear muffler with super cool 2 x 83mm output, already waiting for installation...
Oh, you bought this one:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6577&highlight=costa
Congratulations and welcome to the forum!
Oh, you bought this one:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6577&highlight=costa
Congratulations and welcome to the forum!
i did! And I enjoyed that thread too. Lots of excitement here! Glad to be in good company
Yes
Contact Leistung Autohaus
714-741-2010
Talk to Matt
We have dual round, brabus style and later this week factory look turn down tip cat back kits.
Front sections are being finalized now and are estimated to be ready in 3 weeks.
Factory turndown style tips are now in stock.
Catback portion only at this time.
Catback portion only at this time.
sound clip of the full exhaust..
The Crisp sounds gets lost when uploaded to you tube.. it may sound similar to the other video with factory cats but it actually is not.
The exhaust is more pronounced the bass is richer the growl is sharper sounding. In the cabin there is a gain of roughly 5db but it's still not excessively loud where you can't hear the person you are talking to on the cell phone.
There is no Drone @ 3,000-4,000 RPM cursing speeds, there is a noticeable tone compared to with factory catalysts which almost sound like stock.
We tested the same setup with test pipes and the bottom line is ITS LOUD!!! it will make any Flowmaster Muscle car wish they had a 32V V8.
Full Exhaust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQX80osx8MU
Cat Back only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4_yPmH44NA
The Crisp sounds gets lost when uploaded to you tube.. it may sound similar to the other video with factory cats but it actually is not.
The exhaust is more pronounced the bass is richer the growl is sharper sounding. In the cabin there is a gain of roughly 5db but it's still not excessively loud where you can't hear the person you are talking to on the cell phone.
There is no Drone @ 3,000-4,000 RPM cursing speeds, there is a noticeable tone compared to with factory catalysts which almost sound like stock.
We tested the same setup with test pipes and the bottom line is ITS LOUD!!! it will make any Flowmaster Muscle car wish they had a 32V V8.
Full Exhaust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQX80osx8MU
Cat Back only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4_yPmH44NA
I hate to be a snark here, but I'd still like to see "before" and "after" dyno results on the same car so that performance levels of this exhaust can be assessed.
Perhaps I'm going to have to buy one to do this work, because it doesn't seem that anyone else wants to do the diligence here.....
Perhaps I'm going to have to buy one to do this work, because it doesn't seem that anyone else wants to do the diligence here.....
If only i have access to a good running 500E then i could get this done... three runs are in order... Stock as it sits, Cat Back section, and full Manifold Back section.
So far we have been fitting, re-fitting, and more fitting on cars that come in the shop for repairs.
I would do Eric's 500E which is being restored as we speak but the issue there is we did his cylinder heads and that will skew the figures a bit.
We are still on the hunt for a test mule that we can do before and after runs with.
So far we have been fitting, re-fitting, and more fitting on cars that come in the shop for repairs.
I would do Eric's 500E which is being restored as we speak but the issue there is we did his cylinder heads and that will skew the figures a bit.
We are still on the hunt for a test mule that we can do before and after runs with.
Yes we have shipped exhausts all the way to Germany Spain Asia with no issues.
We use double wall boxes that can support 200lbs. These are $21.00 boxes not the cheap 7.99 boxes.
Last thing I want to deal with is a bent tip or damaged goods.
We have 4 Brabus style tipped exhausts in stock.
We use double wall boxes that can support 200lbs. These are $21.00 boxes not the cheap 7.99 boxes.
Last thing I want to deal with is a bent tip or damaged goods.
We have 4 Brabus style tipped exhausts in stock.
Hello I am interested in seeing what a finished unit that is similar will look like. can the catalytic converters be eliminated? I really want to hear the power, and since I do not live in the USA i gat get away with it. I am not a tire kicker.
My email is aaron@prudentialpanama.com i have a 94 500E.
I need the headers the pipes and the muffler nixing the cats if it is possible.
Also interested in the shocks springs brembo brake rotors
Thanks
My email is aaron@prudentialpanama.com i have a 94 500E.
I need the headers the pipes and the muffler nixing the cats if it is possible.
Also interested in the shocks springs brembo brake rotors
Thanks
The loudest configuration would be with out catalyst.
So basically it will be
1. Front pipe kit w/o CAT
2. Rear exhaust section
We are building all front sections with catalyst to comply with USA laws.
All cat bypass (test pipes) will be made to order.
Please allow 3 weeks for test pipe fabrication if not pre-ordered in advance.
Guys I want to make this clear...
We are not in the business of supplying partial kits. The whole idea was to replace everything as a complete unit.
The front section is designed to replace the factory parts the only factory positions are..
- manifold connections
- y pipe junction
- dual pipe connection to the factory resonator.
Everything else in between is our own design so the bend angles, pipe spacing, how high the pipes sit closer to the body was changed.
On the rear section the only thing in the factory position is the dual pipes leading to the catalyst.
Everything after that flange/slip connection is different.
So in other words...
If you currently own a Remus, MEC, Renn-Tech, Eisenmann exhaust etc.. The mid pipe that replaces the factory resonator WILL NOT MATCH UP TO ANY BRAND EXHAUST WITH OUT MODIFICATION.
Bottom line is if you want just the front section it will bolt up to any factory "style" rear section.
If you are requesting for the resonator delete pipe (mid pipe).
- this is not an item that's going to be sold separately
- the resonator delete pipe will not match up to any other performance muffler that's currently in production.
My suggestion is to get a local muffler shop to make a custom resonator delete pipe (mid pipe) to fit your application.
If there are any questions feel free to pm me.
But what is being offered are two kits..
Front section
Rear section
We are not in the business of supplying partial kits. The whole idea was to replace everything as a complete unit.
The front section is designed to replace the factory parts the only factory positions are..
- manifold connections
- y pipe junction
- dual pipe connection to the factory resonator.
Everything else in between is our own design so the bend angles, pipe spacing, how high the pipes sit closer to the body was changed.
On the rear section the only thing in the factory position is the dual pipes leading to the catalyst.
Everything after that flange/slip connection is different.
So in other words...
If you currently own a Remus, MEC, Renn-Tech, Eisenmann exhaust etc.. The mid pipe that replaces the factory resonator WILL NOT MATCH UP TO ANY BRAND EXHAUST WITH OUT MODIFICATION.
Bottom line is if you want just the front section it will bolt up to any factory "style" rear section.
If you are requesting for the resonator delete pipe (mid pipe).
- this is not an item that's going to be sold separately
- the resonator delete pipe will not match up to any other performance muffler that's currently in production.
My suggestion is to get a local muffler shop to make a custom resonator delete pipe (mid pipe) to fit your application.
If there are any questions feel free to pm me.
But what is being offered are two kits..
Front section
Rear section
Pat, you could do it on the 500TE... it wouldn't be identical, but it would be close enough!
BTW - the reason I am so skeptical is because I've done some testing with cat delete, Y-pipes, muffler delete, etc and have never seen any measurable gain at either dyno or dragstrip. And pretty much everyone else who has attempted exhaust mods on the 500E have either not shown results on the dyno, or just stopped posting. In the 9+ years since I've owned an E500E, I've never seen anyone post "hey, I did XXX to my exhaust, gained YY power, and here are the dyno charts." Butt dynos are notoriously unreliable, and it's extremely difficult to measure part-throttle power. At WOT, the gains just aren't there.
There have been opposite results though... back on the 500Ecastasy board, someone had a megabuck custom header system built (over $10k, IIRC). Photos are here. Power gains were nil, it may have even lost power. They tried fiddling with the LH EPROM code and that didn't help. They theorized that since the timing map is not adjustable (to increase advance), that was the reason for the lack of power gains. At any rate, that system was pulled off the car and put up for sale. I don't recall what happened to it.
It seems there is a better possibility for power gains via intake modifications and/or custom cams. I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong though. 20hp gain from exhaust would be awesome.
Dave, I am the guy who had that custom header/exhaust system made (it cost me $7,000, not $10,000 and was custom built on the car)(also, I never said there was no power gain -- I actually never did a before and after dyno test, as chassis dynos are so unreliable and change with weather temp and humidity). Scott Schell agreed to buy it for $5,000 if I would wait a couple/few months, but then when the time came he said he couldn't afford it at that time for some reason (I don't have access to the 500ectasy PMs, so can't go back and look). Anyway, after that, I put it in storage, where it's been ever since. I will tell you this -- you will never EVER hear an exhaust system that sounds as good as this one did (no rice-burning Fast and Furious nonsense here). It was built by an experienced racing header designer/builder.
Anyway, was just reading this thread and saw your post. Funny that you remember. No question, though, that if the OBD 1 500E were OBD 2 or pre OBD, timing could have been adjusted and the exhaust would have been able to be properly evaluated (the designer claimed it would have made an extraordinary improvement), but nobody knew the timing was not adjustable until after the exhaust was made! Boy did I feel stupid. So, I would have had to change the ignition system completely, which was beyond costly, so I didn't. As a result, I burned through two sets of cats and eventually threw a rod or something in the engine and had to replace the engine (thankfully found one for $5,000 with 50,000 miles on it from Potomac German, as they'd just received a 500E that had been t-boned and totaled).
Let's just say it was a coming of age process for me. Lol.
A heck of a piece of craftsmanship, that exhaust -- for sure.
Jamie
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After numerous delays in production, and a wedding in between I can safely say that the front sections are being delivered today...
So current inventory for Leistung Autohaus will be
Front Sections
2 catted
8 with out cats
Rear sections
9 OE style Turn down tips
3 Brabus style
4 Slash cut tips
Thanks again for everyones input and support on this project. Really happy that there is a good complete exhaust alternative for the W124 500E/E500.
If you guys have any questions feel free to contact me via E-mail as i don't really frequent these forums (5thscaleracer@verizon.net)
JC
So current inventory for Leistung Autohaus will be
Front Sections
2 catted
8 with out cats
Rear sections
9 OE style Turn down tips
3 Brabus style
4 Slash cut tips
Thanks again for everyones input and support on this project. Really happy that there is a good complete exhaust alternative for the W124 500E/E500.
If you guys have any questions feel free to contact me via E-mail as i don't really frequent these forums (5thscaleracer@verizon.net)
JC
I am impressed kits are starting to ship out but surprisingly across the Atlantic and not in the USA....
Thank you guys for supporting the cause...
Thank you guys for supporting the cause...
ive been trying to follow this thread...
but is there a possibility to have a "updated" price list..on the different "parts
I really consider this...even though the price i think ive "found" is abit to much....but it would be nice to see an updated "list"
and maybe a !quote" on how much shipment cost would be,to ship to Norway.
By the way....do you "5thscaleracer" deal with 1/5 scale gas Rc cars? im into Rc cars in general..and i collect vintage rc cars..and also had quite a few 5th scale gas cars..
Cheers..Stefan
but is there a possibility to have a "updated" price list..on the different "parts
I really consider this...even though the price i think ive "found" is abit to much....but it would be nice to see an updated "list"
and maybe a !quote" on how much shipment cost would be,to ship to Norway.
By the way....do you "5thscaleracer" deal with 1/5 scale gas Rc cars? im into Rc cars in general..and i collect vintage rc cars..and also had quite a few 5th scale gas cars..
Cheers..Stefan
Yes I have been playing and racing Rc cars since I was 11yrs old.
Touring car and awd off road buggy is what I play with.
5th scale is something that never fully caught on for me due to the lack of race events local to me. Back in 01 I was modifying the zenoah motors and it was more motor tuning than actually racing 5th scale cars.
Like you I am starting to collect vintage cars that I have owned and raced in my younger years.
Btw I will need an address to get a shipping quote to Norway for the exhaust kit.
Thats awesome to hear about the Rc stuff
i got your pm by the way..im just in the "thinking" process as the price always will be a subject.ill post a video soon, which explains my particular problem when choosing "what parts to get".As i really want the whole system...prices wise im more into "just the rear end of the system" and not the full system with cats.
cheers.
Sorry if I missed anything, but are there any videos of the exhaust? I'd love to hear it.
edit:
to be specific, are there any videos of the catless version? I've seen the video with the normal one with cats.
I'm honestly considering this one or the MEC Design one as they have a sale right now, and would love to hear if there are any differences between these designs?
edit:
to be specific, are there any videos of the catless version? I've seen the video with the normal one with cats.
I'm honestly considering this one or the MEC Design one as they have a sale right now, and would love to hear if there are any differences between these designs?
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I think there are recordings of the exhaust in this thread. Just go to the top of it and page through
Thanks Gerry,
I've looked at the ones in the video already, but I'm still having a hard time deciding if I want to go catless.
We no longer have air/emissions inspections over here, but I'm mostly concerned about the volume.
I would love for a raw V8 sounding exhaust, but it would be bad if it is excessively loud.
Can anyone explain to a newbie like me, whether I should go catless or go with cats?
I've emailed Matt but haven't heard from him in almost a week, and figured I'd ask here.
For this particular exhaust, are there three variants with the cats, one being catted, one being catless, and a third one being "swappable", where you can swap in a "catted test pipe", or a "catless test pipe"?
I've read the thread many times, and frankly am a little confused, but still eager to learn so I can make an informed decision.
I'm hoping to pick up a catted, turn-down exhaust tips, front and rear system, as this seems to be a very good option.
For this particular exhaust, are there three variants with the cats, one being catted, one being catless, and a third one being "swappable", where you can swap in a "catted test pipe", or a "catless test pipe"?
I've read the thread many times, and frankly am a little confused, but still eager to learn so I can make an informed decision.
I'm hoping to pick up a catted, turn-down exhaust tips, front and rear system, as this seems to be a very good option.
Generally doesn't Emails work out so well in the car business, they're just loaded with questions on Email. You better take a phone call.
-a-
Some clarification.
Original design was to have front section with no cats so the front section was two pieces.
Left "y" to drivers side and the main long piece on the right side down to the factory mount point at the resonator.
But others have requested to have a cat option.
The only feasible way was to create a break away point.
So the final version the front section is now 3 pieces.
Drivers side y
Passenger side pipe
And the catalysts or test pipe section
How they are being sold.
Catless which consists of the two pieces and a test pipe that is flanged in place of a cat.
Or
With cats which is the two pieces and a catalytic converter.
The cat option is really for those in Europe or CA that need this for emissions testing.
Most of the customers buy the non cat version. If they need emissions testing they simply swap the factory into place before testing.
As for sound,
The biggest difference is in cabin drone.
It's not bad to a point that you can't talk on the phone and drive. But it is there and for me I prefer the noise outside of the car and not in the cabin.
Exhaust note is not raspy or tinny it's very deep.
Again noise is subjective from person to person. I am more on the conservative side so what seems loud to me is usually not loud enough for others.
What you can do is purchase a non cat version.
If the exhaust seems loud to you the cats can be sold outright or in trade for the test pipes.
You will have 30 days from date of delivery to exchange the test pipe for cats.
Outright price for the cats $735
Test pipe exchange price for cats $500.00
Original design was to have front section with no cats so the front section was two pieces.
Left "y" to drivers side and the main long piece on the right side down to the factory mount point at the resonator.
But others have requested to have a cat option.
The only feasible way was to create a break away point.
So the final version the front section is now 3 pieces.
Drivers side y
Passenger side pipe
And the catalysts or test pipe section
How they are being sold.
Catless which consists of the two pieces and a test pipe that is flanged in place of a cat.
Or
With cats which is the two pieces and a catalytic converter.
The cat option is really for those in Europe or CA that need this for emissions testing.
Most of the customers buy the non cat version. If they need emissions testing they simply swap the factory into place before testing.
As for sound,
The biggest difference is in cabin drone.
It's not bad to a point that you can't talk on the phone and drive. But it is there and for me I prefer the noise outside of the car and not in the cabin.
Exhaust note is not raspy or tinny it's very deep.
Again noise is subjective from person to person. I am more on the conservative side so what seems loud to me is usually not loud enough for others.
What you can do is purchase a non cat version.
If the exhaust seems loud to you the cats can be sold outright or in trade for the test pipes.
You will have 30 days from date of delivery to exchange the test pipe for cats.
Outright price for the cats $735
Test pipe exchange price for cats $500.00
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Steve, based on the above the HJS race cats can be supplied on request, but can you just give a rough price estimate on a complete exhaust with dual HJS?
In case anyone has bought a complete exhaust with HJS cats, it would be nice to see some feedbacks.
Thanks,
-a-
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