Bolt on performance exhaust for the 500e (testing waters)

[Ron500E]

There was a gentleman in the Philippines who made an absolutely beautiful set of headers. They were works of art no question and they bolted right up to the M119 in the 036 chassis. If one were to have them done in the USA I bet the price would be well north of $10K.
They also produced something like a 5HP loss as I recall.....
To properly do a set of headers you need almost unlimited dyno time ($$$), a few EGA's and temp sensors. Welding the pipes up and getting them to fit is the "easy" part compared to the R&D that goes into something that produces a PROVEN HP gain.
If one values their time somewhere around minimum wage you'd still have $10K+ in it I bet. How many sets does one need to sell to even come close to breaking even if it's just a labor of love?
Headers for a 119/036 crop up every few years with the same result/endgame.
Like the Bergwerks NOS system that was available a few years back. Eric I think was hot on it and got the ball rolling as I recall. When they finally became available, for somewhere around $1500 or so, Eric's dog became sick and so many people bailed that it was embarrassing. I think something like 5 sets were sold and that was a PROVEN bolt on mega HP gain.
Not trying to discourage you, just trying to save you time, money and aggravation by giving you the benefit of our collective years of experience by not having you re-invent the wheel so to speak.
Kind Regards,

Ron

 

[maw1124]

We must have beaten this to death by now. The answer is forced induction. There's just so much you're going to get out of a naturally aspirated motor, no matter how efficient the fuel delivery and even with forged internals. This one has both efficient fuel delivery and forged internals. My guess is the 1000hp Volvo's are all forced induction, although I haven't studied Volvo's performance car efforts.

Sure, the M113 responded well to a "modification" to get more power -- it was forced induction by way of supercharger. GVZ and I think J-Sauce have forced induction by way of nitrous. I've yet to see anyone do forced induction by way of turbos, for obvious reasons. In case they are not obvious: (1) no room in the engine bay; (2) few want to disturb the 50/50 weight distribution that MB and Porsche designed into the car; (3) fuel management is a black hole (though "big data" may bring a steep learning curve here in the future); and (4) for the money it costs to do it right, you can go buy an E55k and have your supercharged 5.5 liter MB V8 all day long. But short of forced induction, most of us here agree with MB that there's not much more to be done, other than boring and stroking the motor, a la AMG E60.

I will bring up the exhaust mounted turbo systems for anyone who's heaven bent on turbo charging this motor. But then again, you're on your own with the fuel management computers.

So the skepticism is understood and probably warranted, not to mention shared by MB. And by Porsche, not for nothing, who love to turbo charge cars.

Cheers,

maw

 

[5thscaleracer]

Cats are burnt and being replaced by 100cell and in my ideal setup it would be a flange to flange at the connection where this cat back system mates up.

5thscaleracer, no worries I'll make it work. Am I to assume that using a high flow cat system will increase the overall volume of the system? Or will it potentially change the whole sound? Will send you an email continuing our offline correspondence.

My E-mail is 5thscaleracer@verizon.net

BTW i hope you buy "Real 100CPI" Cats.

Here in the US we have a huge selection of "Race" cats the sad truth is none of them are legit. They flow more, they do work ok but give it 1year the substrate used (Ceramic or Metallic) tends to shrink or get clogged due to construction design.

The only USA Mfg i would trust for stock Cats would be Magnaflow (aka carsound) and maybe Walker not sure on their quality it's been a while since i had inspected theirs. But even these two guys produce mediocre quality catalysts.

But if you want a real race cat the only legit one is made by HJS out of Germany. These are real true performing cats that will not trigger 02 on OBDII cars and will pass smog tests (not CA).

HJS Metallic race cats range from $300-$1000.00 But they will last you a long time. On the 500e you will need to run 2 cats that are rated for 200-300hp each. These would need to be welded in parallel to each other, i would suggest running a 200CPSI E3/4 Rating. There is no need for 100CPI you won't gain anything aside from fuel smell, you are better off just skipping cats vs. dumping 600-800 in Cats.

Product Description

Model Number	9095 0080
Max Engine Size per Catalyst

[TD="width: 396"] Up to 3.5 Liters per Catalyst; Up to 7.0 Liters w/ 2 Catalysts[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] Max HP per Catalyst[/TD][TD="width: 396"] Up to 280 HP per Catalyst; Up to 560 HP w/ 2 Catalysts[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] In/Out Diameter[/TD][TD="width: 396"] 2.76 in (70mm); Extendable to 3.5 in (88.9 mm)[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] Length[/TD][TD="width: 396"] 9.45 in (240mm)[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] Outer Diameter[/TD][TD="width: 396"] 4.76 in (121mm)[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] Weight[/TD][TD="width: 396"] 5.11 lbs (2.3kg)[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] C.P.S.I.[/TD][TD="width: 396"] 200 C.P.S.I.(Cells Per Square Inch); Hi-Flow[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] Air Flow[/TD][TD="width: 396"] 90%[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] Function[/TD][TD="width: 396"] OBD II, MOT, Euro 3, Euro 4[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] Country of Manufacture[/TD][TD="width: 396"] Germany[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] Functions as[/TD][TD="width: 396"] Main Catalyst[/TD] [TD="width: 204"] Notes[/TD][TD="width: 396"] To weld in; For European vehicles 2007 and before.[/TD]

http://www.hjsna.com/products/HJS-High-Flow-200-C.P.S.I.-Universal-Tuning-Catalyst-9095-0080.html

This will give you a better idea on Race or Tuned cats.

http://www.hjsna.com/pages/Compare.html

 

[5thscaleracer]

Not sure if anyone is interested...

We have a short run of "slash type tips"
- 2.5 304SS
- Slash cut in the stock location (where the little indent is located on the bumper)

If anyone is interested let Matt @ Leistung know
sales@LeistungAutohaus.com
there are 3 kits left..

 

[gerryvz]

Can you certify that the chicks dig these ?


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[J-Sauce]

Those look great!

 

[5thscaleracer]

Can you certify that the chicks dig these ?


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I can only speak for the california chicks that are smoking crack.

They dig my ideas

 

[gerryvz]

Y'all have a lot of those types there in Cali. In Texas they send crack smokers up to Huntsville to "Ol' Sparky" ... The official state electric chair ;-))

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntsville_Unit

 

[5thscaleracer]

We have begun working on the Front section of this exhaust which will be a Manifold back.

This section will include "test pipes" we can't offer Catalytic converters unless you are interested in Race Cats 200CPI or 100 CPI cats which will be sourced from HJS.

Price is TBA at this point we are finalizing pipe lay out and doing a flow study to equalize the left and right bank the best we can utilizing pipe size and bends.

Here is a picture of something we are testing...

To the left is a 3" pipe which we plan on using on the right hand side (passenger side) of the Transmission. The problem with the 3" pipe is Ground clearance...
To the right is a modified pipe that has the same volume as the 3" pipe to the left. This gives us the ground clearance the 500E needs but now we are doing thermal studies of material growth. This section is real tight T304 has the ability to expand 1/8" we are looking into T321 or T439 which expands as much as 1/16"

Stay tuned...

T304 SS pipes

 

[savmjv]

Did dyno verification ever get done on the exhaust? I looked back, but don't see it.

 

[Ron500E]

We have begun working on the Front section of this exhaust which will be a Manifold back.

This section will include "test pipes" we can't offer Catalytic converters unless you are interested in Race Cats 200CPI or 100 CPI cats which will be sourced from HJS.

Price is TBA at this point we are finalizing pipe lay out and doing a flow study to equalize the left and right bank the best we can utilizing pipe size and bends.

Here is a picture of something we are testing...

To the left is a 3" pipe which we plan on using on the right hand side (passenger side) of the Transmission. The problem with the 3" pipe is Ground clearance...
To the right is a modified pipe that has the same volume as the 3" pipe to the left. This gives us the ground clearance the 500E needs but now we are doing thermal studies of material growth. This section is real tight T304 has the ability to expand 1/8" we are looking into T321 or T439 which expands as much as 1/16"

Stay tuned...

T304 SS pipes

Rather than reinventing the wheel why not just buy the MB euro non kat pipes and send them to Jet Hot?
124 490 1920 is the part number for the pipes and 124 492 5941 is the part number for the transmission bracket.

Pics from Dave's excellent site.
http://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/exhaust/500E_exhaust_non-cat1.jpg

Kind Regards,

Ron

 

[5thscaleracer]

Rather than reinventing the wheel why not just buy the MB euro non kat pipes and send them to Jet Hot?
124 490 1920 is the part number for the pipes and 124 492 5941 is the part number for the transmission bracket.

Pics from Dave's excellent site.
http://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/exhaust/500E_exhaust_non-cat1.jpg

Kind Regards,

Ron

I don't know??

guys in Norway, Sweden and Germany are asking for a stainless front section.

A few here in the USA and Asia so???

 

[Maui]

I decided to bite the bullet on one of these systems. I will post some pics later. I wish I could record the sound because it sounds great! No drone. Just a little rumble like a V8 should. Very nice system that bolted right up with no issues. Highly recommend.

 

[gerryvz]

So it's ready and the exhausts are now being sold? Wow, that's news.

We need dyno plots to see what the performance delta is.

Why is it that no one wants to do before and after dyno pulls with this exhaust?


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[clarkz71]

We need dyno plots to see what the performance delta is.

Why is it that no one wants to do before and after dyno pulls with this exhaust?

Plausible deniability.......

 

[Maui]

I purchased the cat back system for a little more sound, something that bolts up easy and easy to return to stock. I don't expect additional horsepower just more sound from the V8. I like it. If I was doing headers I'd dyno the car. This is basically a muffler system. Not worth half the price to rev my car beyond where I would drive it anyway.

This picture is prior to fine adjustment. My phone pics did not come out to well due to shop light glaring most of the pictures.

 

[gerryvz]

Plausible deniability.......

I guess you're right

Pardon me while I go back out to the shop and work on my M117 A/C pulley....

 

[Glen]

Ken, are those turn-down tips? They look more straight but maybe its the angle of the picture.

 

[Stevester 500E]

Sign me up for the turned down tips.

I don't know??

guys in Norway, Sweden and Germany are asking for a stainless front section.

A few here in the USA and Asia so???

 

[5thscaleracer]

I guess you're right

Pardon me while I go back out to the shop and work on my M117 A/C pulley....

We are still organizing a dyno result but this exhaust project is running along side cylinder head development on the 190e 16v. So time is real slim at the moment.

Ken, are those turn-down tips? They look more straight but maybe its the angle of the picture.

Those are exposed tips the final turndown version is being finalized now. This version will not be visible it's even tighter fitting than the stock tips. Stay tuned for those.

Sign me up for the turned down tips.

Will do once we finalize them waiting on pipe benders to deliver the materials.

 

[Maui]

Ken, are those turn-down tips? They look more straight but maybe its the angle of the picture.

They are a little more exposed than the stock turn down tips. I really like the look and the sound is very nice. The motor has a little bit of a growl but there is absolutely no drone.

 

[sheward]

When you can, would you take a couple more pics from some different angles?

drew

 

[s4cruiser]

I'm so looking for a reason that I need this (in the turned down tip version) exhaust.

However, my $$ would be better spent on other E500E items first...but once I can figure out why I need this then I'll be sold. The chicks in NC sure do dig a nice exhaust growl .

 

[5thscaleracer]

When you can, would you take a couple more pics from some different angles?

drew

Hope this helps

 

[5thscaleracer]

Final turndown tip revision.

Current inventory 1-2015
5 brabus style
3 dual round

And taking pre-orders (discounted pricing) for "turn down" and/or front section pipes with cat bypass.

Catalyst will be offered upon request during purchase of front section pipes at an additional cost. Test pipes will be included so they can be swapped out for emissions testing.

Here are the "turn down" tip pictures


Please contact Matt at sales@leistungautohaus.com for questions.

 

[kwontumspeed]

Final turndown tip revision.

Current inventory 1-2015
5 brabus style
3 dual round

And taking pre-orders (discounted pricing) for "turn down" and/or front section pipes with cat bypass.

Catalyst will be offered upon request during purchase of front section pipes at an additional cost. Test pipes will be included so they can be swapped out for emissions testing.

Here are the "turn down" tip pictures
View attachment 36901

Please contact Matt at sales@leistungautohaus.com for questions.

Price for total system? Cat to tips?

 

[8899]

Final turndown tip revision.

Current inventory 1-2015
5 brabus style
3 dual round

And taking pre-orders (discounted pricing) for "turn down" and/or front section pipes with cat bypass.

Catalyst will be offered upon request during purchase of front section pipes at an additional cost. Test pipes will be included so they can be swapped out for emissions testing.

Here are the "turn down" tip pictures
View attachment 36901

Please contact Matt at sales@leistungautohaus.com for questions.

It would be helpful if you could summarize in one post all options, availability, pricing, and etc so potential customers would not have to flip through 400+ posts on this thread to get to the pertinent details. Thank you.

 

[gerryvz]

Along with detailed dyno results for each variant of the exhaust system -- just kidding

 

[Rouven036]

I'm definitely in for turn down tips, but will wait to see the finished front section with cats and then might go for a full system!
Great job!

 

[5thscaleracer]

OK to Recap...

Price for front section
$1500.00

Price for the rear section (Exhaust)
$1500.00

Total for the manifold back kit $3000.00

*** Going forward only two tip configurations will be offered, turndown and Brabus style tip, the dual round will be phased out after the 3 kits are sold.***


any questions contact Matt at Leistung Autohaus sales@leistungautohaus.com

Un-knowns

Catalytic converters
I am researching this now to see what US made aftermarket cats might work for the V8 beast. So depending if i can find a reasonable solution aside from HJS we might offer cats which can be swapped out for emissions testing.

 

[5thscaleracer]

Up skirt action for the turndown tips

 

[J-Sauce]

For the pre-order discount, do we have to order both the front and rear section? Two payments of $675 sound downright reasonable!

 

[Jim]

The tips look really close to the rear valence. When I put a larger (but not the largest) stainless exhaust on my Ford Cosworth Sapphire it got too hot and the plastic melted a little.

I have a tentative order with Matt for turned down tips.., any advice on this?

Jim

 

[5thscaleracer]

For the pre-order discount, do we have to order both the front and rear section? Two payments of $675 sound downright reasonable!

No you can purchase either, the discount split is $150.00

The tips look really close to the rear valence. When I put a larger (but not the largest) stainless exhaust on my Ford Cosworth Sapphire it got too hot and the plastic melted a little.

I have a tentative order with Matt for turned down tips.., any advice on this?

Jim

You have about 1/4" of room from hitting the bumper.
My experience in other makes I have yet to see a bumper melt or bubble.

The hanger if you wish to modify can be bent to allow 1/4" of more play downward. Just get a good set of large channel locks and bend accordingly.

I forgot to point out too.. Stainless T304 likes to grow roughly 1/16 to 1/8" as it heats up, the growth in this case would be forward and down so the exhaust fumes will be directed further away from the bumper.

 

[Berlin]

View attachment 36928

Up skirt action for the turndown tips

My 300ce exhaust , too much of a drone .

 

[colombian_gringo]

 

[gerryvz]

It's likely that the entire production run of exhausts would be sold out quickly if marketed like this:

 

[s4cruiser]

Oh yeah - check out the pipes on her!!

 

[Klink]

In the immortal words of Mr. Creosote, "I'll have the lot!"

 

[gerryvz]

Hey, I'm a marketing guy by profession. Just giving some professional advice to Mr. Racer.....

 

[5thscaleracer]

Sold i would buy it!

 

[5thscaleracer]

The tips look really close to the rear valence. When I put a larger (but not the largest) stainless exhaust on my Ford Cosworth Sapphire it got too hot and the plastic melted a little.

I have a tentative order with Matt for turned down tips.., any advice on this?

Jim

Jim

Here we have the exhaust that was adjusted with a set of channel locks.

It sits a tad lower but was able to gain 1/4 spacing from the bumper. There is enough adjustments to go as far as 1/2" spacing if needed.

So you have some adjustability..

 

[tanger]

Just picked up my car and drove it home (about 30 miles) and wow, love love love the new rumble. It's much more noticeable but not intrusive, and with the windows up and on the freeway there is no drone. If you are steady cruising it is barely there, letting off the gas you hear a little deep reverb and of course when you accelerate you can't help but smile.

Did a few stoplight to stoplight blasts and I can tell you for sure that my MPG is going to suffer (but well worth it!). Sounds like a V8 should.

For those of you who want to know performance improvement blah blah blah- I don't feel any real difference. But that's not why you get this exhaust..

Fit and finish are top notch too.

Very happy with the outcome- if you are on the fence JUST DO IT.

 

[Maui]

Just picked up my car and drove it home (about 30 miles) and wow, love love love the new rumble. It's much more noticeable but not intrusive, and with the windows up and on the freeway there is no drone. If you are steady cruising it is barely there, letting off the gas you hear a little deep reverb and of course when you accelerate you can't help but smile.

Did a few stoplight to stoplight blasts and I can tell you for sure that my MPG is going to suffer (but well worth it!). Sounds like a V8 should.

For those of you who want to know performance improvement blah blah blah- I don't feel any real difference. But that's not why you get this exhaust..

Fit and finish are top notch too.

Very happy with the outcome- if you are on the fence JUST DO IT.

Congrats. I enjoy mine too. Took the car out for a nice long drive today and I agree the sound is great. Just enough sound to remind you that you've got a V8 and the chicks dig it.

 

[gerryvz]

So the first results are not showing any butt-dyno stimulation & increases in power (which is quite rare - usually there is noticeable BD power gain), but ARE showing aural stimulation.

 

[clarkz71]

So the first results are not showing any butt-dyno stimulation & increases in power (which is quite rare - usually there is noticeable BD power gain), but ARE showing aural stimulation.

Not surprised, we've known this for years.

Stock exhaust, performance wise, is quite good.

 

[maw1124]

Not surprised, we've known this for years.

Stock exhaust, performance wise, is quite good.

Right. It's MB-Porsche after all. While we might disagree with their preferences (clinically perfect power delivery with the complete absence of a caffeinated adrenaline pump, a quiet discerning exhaust note, etc.), re-engineering the performance is a separate matter altogether. This is what has made AMG, AMG for over 45 years. Boosting the performance without sacrificing useable everyday "clinically perfect" reliability.

It's also the reason a custom exhaust was one of the first things I did on my car. Today's car marketing has caught up with the fact that exhaust sound enhances the driving experience. So I'm glad more people are experiencing that preference with this setup (or any other custom setup for that matter). In my view, leaving a car "stock" means "stock except radio, exhaust, wheels and tires" -- preference items and things that have all improved over the last 40 years.

My other cars were all OEM engineered during the "performance craze" years, 2003 to 2007 where we saw amazing stuff from Audi, BMW M and MB AMG. They were conceived for a prosperous, money is no object America and Europe -- just like these cars, pre-9/11 and the tragedy of the Bush Era response. For those cars, any hope of improving performance with exhaust makes no sense. Indeed, any hope of improving performance doesn't make much sense. You might improve preference, but not performance -- subtle but appreciable difference. I'm ranting. I'll stop now.

Cheers,

maw

 

[Maui]

With hard hat firmly in place....I think there might be a little more torque. I would say for the money it is the best aftermarket option out there.

 

[Trae]

I disconnected the battery while I was doing a job, about a year ago, on the Renntech and never entered the code into the Becker radio BECAUSE I like the exhaust sound.

My kids think I'm nuts, but I can cruise forever just listening to that wonderful sound!

Don't know IF there is any HP gain with a Renntech exhaust, but it does sound sweet.

 

[Klink]

Well, it looks beautifully done, and if people whose opinions I respect enjoy the sound of it, so much the better. Thanks for the comments, guys. No hardhat should be required.

As far as the pricing goes, the factory system costs a pantload, that's for sure. No, I haven't priced it, I'm just speculating that since it is.036 specific there can't be a hell of a lot of amortization in the factory system deflating the price. The same needs to be said for the guys that did this system. They put a hell of a lot of work into something that has a very limited potential market, and my un-hard hat is off to them for that. I hope to hear one in person one day...