And I don't have the slightest doubt that the day MB stops is supplying the .10, the .14 will get the "should be used" fine print addendum...
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Approved ATF Discussion for 722.3 Transmission
- Thread starter Roma_500E
- Start date
And I don't have the slightest doubt that the day MB stops is supplying the .10, the .14 will get the "should be used" fine print addendum...
And I don't have the slightest doubt that the day MB stops is supplying the .10, the .14 will get the "should be used" fine print addendum...
They did stop selling the .10, years ago and released a Service Bulletin to use only 236.14
In all Nag 1 & 2 gear box's from 96 to June 2010.
The only source of 236.10 is the aftermarket, Fuchs, Febi, Meyle, Shell.
The Febi & Meyle are Fuchs
Indeed, and well played, Honch.
But Lord Vader is not to be denied! MB is only supplying the 722.14 fluid for ALL of the Dexron type applications. All of the 722.3 approved oil part numbers which include "sheets" 236.1,.6,.7,.9,.10 are NLA and are subbed in the Paragon system to 236.14 fluids.
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Eh, that's kinda like asking "which one is best - blonde, brunette, or redhead?". There is no simple, singular answer; other than "it depends". Same for the ATF.
Eh, that's kinda like asking "which one is best - blonde, brunette, or redhead?". There is no simple, singular answer; besides "it depends". Same for the ATF.
Just get one of each and that problem is solved...
I'd have to move a bit south/east to Utah for that... may encounter compatibility problems, etc. I'm happy with my current model!Just get one of each and that problem is solved...
probably beating dead horse agein, but, just read some local mb forums and quite many say that dex II should be used, specially mobil atf 220. That is not synthetic oil. Reason to use that is that it have more friction material than synthetic dex III. So turbine slips more with dex III. Dex III is faster when cold. Anyway I am going to try that mobil 220 ATF. http://www.ulei-mobil.ro/pdf/MobilAutoDataSheet/mobil_atf_220.pdf
Dexron fluids all have friction modifiers, which reduce friction, and make the fluid more slippery. Both Dex-II and Dex-III likely have similar amounts; I seriously doubt there is a major difference between them. Synthetic base stock is definitely preferred as it will last longer, not shear down, reduce operating temps a bit, and provide a good margin of safety in case of overheating.
If you want a fluid without friction modifiers, use a Type F fluid, which is pretty much just a Dex-II/III without the friction modifiers. This fluid allows clutches to "grab" more quickly, shifts will be firmer, less smooth. It's often billed as a 'racing' fluid, but as Jono mentioned previously, Type F fluid can also extend the life of a 722.3 trans that is slipping/flaring with normal Dexron fluid.
If you want to use a Mobil ATF, I'd recommend Mobil-1 ATF:
https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-transmission-fluid/synthetic-atf
http://pds.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx
If you want a fluid without friction modifiers, use a Type F fluid, which is pretty much just a Dex-II/III without the friction modifiers. This fluid allows clutches to "grab" more quickly, shifts will be firmer, less smooth. It's often billed as a 'racing' fluid, but as Jono mentioned previously, Type F fluid can also extend the life of a 722.3 trans that is slipping/flaring with normal Dexron fluid.
If you want to use a Mobil ATF, I'd recommend Mobil-1 ATF:
https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-transmission-fluid/synthetic-atf
http://pds.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx
Thanks Dave, just read that this type-f is popular with highly modified turbo-diesels, they have lots of torque. MAG1 http://www.mag1.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=0e3b88cc-3611-42c1-9dd6-78db2fbd566e is available in local store.
I'd have to move a bit south/east to Utah for that... may encounter compatibility problems, etc. I'm happy with my current model!
She's cute and she can beat you at driving a race car. Sounds like a keeper to me...
I had been using synthetic fluid in my 560SEC, but when the tranny warmed up after driving 50 mi., it would not want to go into reverse for up to 8-10 seconds. The forward gears all shifted just like any other 722.3, but the reverse had a mind of its own.
Jono told me to do a type F fluid and filter change to try to extend the life of the tranny.
I am glad to report that I have not had a problem going into reverse within a couple of seconds since the change, so type F worked for now in the 560SEC.
All other cars are on Redline D-4 fluid and are shifting just fine.
Jono told me to do a type F fluid and filter change to try to extend the life of the tranny.
I am glad to report that I have not had a problem going into reverse within a couple of seconds since the change, so type F worked for now in the 560SEC.
All other cars are on Redline D-4 fluid and are shifting just fine.
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I just texted Kent, here's his response.
.
If that's what Gerryvz's Uncle says; then it's good enough for me!
Fuchs Titan 4000 ATF is wonderful stuff, just filled the 500E with it and the trans shifts like butter. I run Fuchs ATF's and Gear Oils in all my Benzes.
LOL. Yup, if used to get more life out of a trans, it likely will be more "done" when it's, er, done. Would be interesting to tear one down afterwards and see if any hard parts (items without friction material) are damaged or otherwise in need of replacement.
Trae, I'd be careful with the SEC, my understanding of the reverse delay is that if you push it too far, you can end up killing the reverse piston... although at ~$100 it's not too expensive. Not sure if other stuff can get hurt too. (??)
Nah, just clutches are thoroughly used up.Well, at least they are more comprehensively damaged when they finally die...
I've been running my white 91 on f type fluid for 10 years now, works Wunderbar.
Come to think of it, the only .3 i have that Isn't running some form of F (trick shift etc etc) is the s600.
We bought a 400E that "needed a transmission" a few years ago. Type F and 4-5 lbs on the modulator and she's been about 15k miles, shifts Perfectly.
Now granted, I do Not like these butter/Chrysler like shifts..I want Positive, Firm shifting which isn't everyone's bag I know
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
my gaaawd....whaaat a thread....ive read it all..and my head is spinning
i think im takin the blackbeauty out for a spin...
Good Idea!
LOL. Yup, if used to get more life out of a trans, it likely will be more "done" when it's, er, done. Would be interesting to tear one down afterwards and see if any hard parts (items without friction material) are damaged or otherwise in need of replacement.
Trae, I'd be careful with the SEC, my understanding of the reverse delay is that if you push it too far, you can end up killing the reverse piston... although at ~$100 it's not too expensive. Not sure if other stuff can get hurt too. (??)
What Dave said. A broken LB3 piston is not the end of it if you are unlucky, not by a long shot. It is also common for the LB3 piston to so overextend as it attempts to compress the disintegrated plate brake pack that it blows off the return spring retainer, thereby sending all the return springs into the rotating masses, grinding them and your gear set to kibbles and bits.
A delay into reverse, and/or a ratcheting noise when moving in reverse are your early warnings, but they aren't even that particularly "early"
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The RED STUFF!
I certainly don't want kibbles and bits in my tranny, so here is the question of the day:
Just exactly how long do I wait until a tranny rebuild? Is it subjective? I have never had to have anything "rebuilt" on any car in my life.
So far, the car shifts fine in both forward and reverse with no clicking noises.
If I have to select reverse, I do it at idle hoping that I don't exasperate the problem.
Automatic transmissions are an enigma to me. I really don't understand them and only do what you guys (Jono) recommend.
Just exactly how long do I wait until a tranny rebuild? Is it subjective? I have never had to have anything "rebuilt" on any car in my life.
So far, the car shifts fine in both forward and reverse with no clicking noises.
If I have to select reverse, I do it at idle hoping that I don't exasperate the problem.
Automatic transmissions are an enigma to me. I really don't understand them and only do what you guys (Jono) recommend.
An extra second or two to engage reverse is a warning, as is any kind of unusual noise as you start moving in reverse. If it does either of those, don't put it in reverse again until you get it fixed. After that happens you can usually keep driving it forward until the cows come home, remember why they left in the first place, and then leave again, as long as it isn't slipping.
Well, in my 722.3xx transmissions, I used Red Line D4 or High Temp (which is just a thicker D4).
Not taking the bait on that other tranny... nope... nuh-uh.
Klink, since we're on the subject... what does it mean if you have a slightly delayed reverse engagement (1-2 seconds), along with a whirring noise during the delay? No clicking, no funny noises when the car is actually moving...
Hell, I don't know for sure. My guess would be some scraping noises from LB3 plates that are missing material. They may make some noises as they are slowing to a stop.
Don't panic, it's not rocket surgery
im abit curious about this talk about the F type oil...
is this the Ford spec oil you are talking about?cause we have some Quakerstate F type transmission oil at work ..
Is there any chanse of damaging the transmission?i kinda would like to try this in my 92 500e.(just mentioning it cause the example mentioned was in the 560sec...).if it DOES not harm anything..heh.obviously
would be nice to have a "cheaper" alternativ to the Mercedes oil i have in the transmission at the moment.
is this the Ford spec oil you are talking about?cause we have some Quakerstate F type transmission oil at work ..
Is there any chanse of damaging the transmission?i kinda would like to try this in my 92 500e.(just mentioning it cause the example mentioned was in the 560sec...).if it DOES not harm anything..heh.obviously
would be nice to have a "cheaper" alternativ to the Mercedes oil i have in the transmission at the moment.
I just performed a transmission flush in my 02 E55 which has the 722.6 using Maxlife ATF which is NAG1 compliant. The last flush was about 2 years / 30,000 miles ago with Shell ATF134. I gotta say that the transmission shifts beautifully with the new fluid and at $17/gallon at Walmart, you really can't go wrong.
The MaxLife should be fine in the 722.6 / NAG1. Just make sure to flush it every 30kmi or so.
Had an issue with double engagement on that initial drop in gear cold take off at times using the Castrol Transmax in my 420. It has completely vanished after the last change to Febi brand REAL Dex 3 https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/auto-trans-fluid-0009899203.
"This is a mineral based Automatic Transmission Fluid that meets Dexron II, MB 236.6, 236.7 Specifications. OEM Approval: MB 236.6. 722.3 and 722.4 transmissions should have their fluid changed and filter replaced every 30,000 miles. If this is a service vehicle or one that regularly sees tow duty, the fluid should be replaced every 15,000 miles."
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The D4 is ~7.5 viscosity, the High Temp is ~10 viscosity (@ 100°C, cSt). I'm not sure how the resulting mix with thicker viscosity would affect the shift quality in the 722.6 box. Would be better to use the correct stuff if possible.
BTW, after a fluid/filter change, it doesn't hurt to reset the TCU adaptation and go through the re-learn procedure, although it's a bit of a chore and requires SDS. If you're happy with the shifts before & after, don't worry about it.
It appears the 236.11 is an oddball fluid spec'd for commercial vehicles using a ZF 4 HP 20 transmission:
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/231.2_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/231.0_en.html
Don't confuse 236.xx (ATF) with 235.xx (gear oil) on the spec sheet, btw.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/231.2_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/231.0_en.html
Don't confuse 236.xx (ATF) with 235.xx (gear oil) on the spec sheet, btw.
001-989-21-03 is the original 236.10 spec and should be ideal for any 722.3 (or 722.6) transmission.I use only [FONT=&]0019892103
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/236.10_en.html
However, I believe this is NLA from Mercedes, at least in USA. It was replaced / superceded to a newer spec fluid (236.14) that is thinner, but "compatible"... at least according to the latest spec sheets. Equivalents to 001-989-21-03 are still available via aftermarket sources.
