The shell ATF 134 is around $10 a qt online
Autohaus AZ has Fuchs 4134, which is MB for $13
Genuine MB will run you around $20, though I've seen it on e-bay for $10-$15
Basically, Same price as Redline D4
-
Hi Guest !
Welcome to the 500Eboard forum.
Since its founding in late 2008, 500Eboard has become the leading resource on the Internet for all things related to the Mercedes-Benz 500E and E500. In recent years, we have also expanded to include the 400E and E420 models, which are directly related to the 500E/E500.
We invite you to browse and take advantage of the information and resources here on the site. If you find helpful information, please register for full membership, and you'll find even more resources available. Feel free to ask questions, and make liberal use of the "Search" function to find answers.
We hope you will become an active contributor to the community!
Sincerely,
500Eboard Management
Approved ATF Discussion for 722.3 Transmission
- Thread starter Roma_500E
- Start date
The shell ATF 134 is around $10 a qt online
Autohaus AZ has Fuchs 4134, which is MB for $13
Genuine MB will run you around $20, though I've seen it on e-bay for $10-$15
Basically, Same price as Redline D4
Re: Draining the torque converter without removing cross pipe
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...-funnel-With-pic&p=54932&viewfull=1#post54932
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions, post 2.
3 years prior
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?640-722-3-transmission-oil-change-instructions
Just THIS MORNING I was able to remove a transmission pan on a 400E without removing the crossover pipe. But it was a car in the wrecking yard, and I had to use a large flat-blade screwdriver to wedge the pipe forward just enough so that I could drop the pan. It was not a fun exercise and it is 1000% easier just to remove the crossover pipe, as I have done in the past when changing my E500 Dexron III ATF.
But I got a nice-condition first-gear-start 400E valve body, which is going up for sale very soon
Anyone need a valve body to give their car FGS capability ??
But I got a nice-condition first-gear-start 400E valve body, which is going up for sale very soon
Anyone need a valve body to give their car FGS capability ??
How nice for you, but that's not unusual.
WIS only instructs you to remove the cross over pipe to make converter drain plug access easier.
Which is what Dave was talking about, plus the mess issue
And if the pipe has not hit anything, the pan drops clear without even touching it.
Most of these cars have bottomed out at some point, and some clearance is lost.
WIS only instructs you to remove the cross over pipe to make converter drain plug access easier.
Which is what Dave was talking about, plus the mess issue
And if the pipe has not hit anything, the pan drops clear without even touching it.
Most of these cars have bottomed out at some point, and some clearance is lost.
Just THIS MORNING I was able to remove a transmission pan on a 400E without removing the crossover pipe. But it was a car in the wrecking yard, and I had to use a large flat-blade screwdriver to wedge the pipe forward just enough so that I could drop the pan. It was not a fun exercise and it is 1000% easier just to remove the crossover pipe, as I have done in the past when changing my E500 Dexron III ATF.
But I got a nice-condition first-gear-start 400E valve body, which is going up for sale very soon
Anyone need a valve body to give their car FGS capability ??
I am curious where all the fluid went?
Almost forgot, for your reverse clicking, needs a rebuild, Dexron III using E500____
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251592834743?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
This is pretty much everything that I've heard and know to be true for 722.3 and earlier transmissions (Dexron III is a technical specification in itself) and I would be reluctant to use the later 236.10-236.14 spec fluids a 722.3 because it would be a waste of money.
For 722.6 or 722.9, it's critical to use a long life fluid that meets the correct spec. I have heard of some people using valvoline max life in their 722.6 with great results. I have 4 cases of Shell ATF-134 that I got a scorching deal on for my E55 and SL500.
In a drain pan, and then into a 55-gallon barrel in the yard for recycled oil.
Someone did remove the cats (looks like they just cut them out with a Sawzall) so that may have shifted the crossover pipe a bit. There were some pretty serious scrapes on the bottom of the crossover.
Yes, and Dexron IID is at every auto parts store and MB dealership that I can think of......NOT.
Sorry Vader....nice try on a technicality, but those of us in the know have been there and done the Dex IID vs. Dex III thing.
But we're all supposed to be using the current MB '.14 / Dex VI spec fluid in our transmissions, right ?!?
Brief update on this: After messing with a few different cars in salvage yards, it seems that sometimes the pan will come off with the pipe in place, and other times it will not. When installing the pipe it will move around a fair amount, meaning it can be tightened up within a total range of probably 5mm or so. (?) One time (at a P+P) I was able to, um, "clearance" the pipe with a hammer... but I'd never do that on my personal car, and I doubt anyone else would either. I think this variability, along with Clark's mention of the pipe possibly being hit, translates into a 50/50 chance of the pan coming off with the pipe in place. The pan still has some fluid left after draining, and finding out it may bind against the exhaust isn't fun.
The 722.6 and 722.9 are each COMPLETELY different discussions, both could have a lengthy thread specific to each transmission type. In the interest of keeping vaguely on topic for the 500Eboard where all our cars should have a 722.3, I'll not post any comments related to either 722.6 (which I own) and 722.9 (which I know absolutely nothing about). IIRC, there is a pretty decent thread on PeachParts regarding the various choices for 722.6 fluid, if you're interested. Think BW had some interesting threads as well?
Salvage yards remove the cats, due to a stupid Federal law that says used catalysts cannot be re-sold. And, they get pretty good $$$ from the folks who buy the cats for recycling. Every car that goes into a self-service yard will have the fluids removed and cats cut out.
I've seen lots of cars with the cats still installed here in Houston. And fluids are NOT removed. Coolant, transmission fluid, motor oil, and washer fluid are always there on ALL cars in the North Houston LKQ Pick-Your-Part lot. I just removed a fuel distributor from a 420SEL today (as a spare for my 560SEC) and there was PLENTY of fuel in the lines and system. Banging on the tank with a hammer also indicates that the tank is partially full, at least.
Well, a lot seems questionable at this yard, including their ability to lawfully transact credit and debit card sales without skimming the card number and code on the back......Wow. That's an EPA raid waiting to happen...
Yeah, that yard may not be in bid'ness long term. They should be draining the coolant, engine oil, trans fluid, and fuel tanks. Not sure if they normally drain the diff (they should), can't remember if they siphon the master cylinder reservoirs either. The fuel lines (i.e., pipes from tank to engine) and fuel distributors are usually not drained.
Most of the P+P's that I've seen stab a hole into the oil pans and then after draining, they stuff a rubber plug in the hole... destroying the pan, but saving them precious minutes which are then spent having a smork.
Most of the P+P's that I've seen stab a hole into the oil pans and then after draining, they stuff a rubber plug in the hole... destroying the pan, but saving them precious minutes which are then spent having a smork.
Well, I (and my tool bag) took a ROYAL bath in ATF today when I lowered the pan to get that valve body. The lip of it let loose from the crossover pipe at quite a rapid rate.
Vader would have been cackling if he'd seen it, I'm sure. A few loud curse words were uttered, indeed.
[youtube]KVjOH7WeEKk[/youtube]
Vader would have been cackling if he'd seen it, I'm sure. A few loud curse words were uttered, indeed.
[youtube]KVjOH7WeEKk[/youtube]
I took the cats off my C6 when I installed the headers. The cats were kicking around in my shop for a couple years until I go tired of stubbing my toe on them. I took them to the recycler and got about $60 for them, but it took a couple weeks to get paid. I think they have to make sure you're not on some list of felons or something. I remember a couple years ago seeing a few news stories about people having their cats stolen.
Nope. I have it covered, just suggesting that the more expensive fluids recommended for the later transmissions (236.10 - 236.14) are not required for the 722.3.
In some shops that unpleasant occurrence is known as the "red tide".
Yes, and Dexron IID is at every auto parts store and MB dealership that I can think of......NOT.
Sorry Vader....nice try on a technicality, but those of us in the know have been there and done the Dex IID vs. Dex III thing.
You being in the computer field should know Dexron II is just a mouse click away.
You need to actually do a search. Amazon is $123 shipped for 10 qts
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CPAEIG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2YS44B9WQ4NBH
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/191223773467?lpid=82
Specs on Redline ATF
Interesting points.
Dex II is slightly thinner then D4 on cSt, but all other specs almost the same
Redline high temp has a much lower viscosity index the either Dex II or D4
I don't think the 15° added protection is worth the VI loss.
Interesting points.
Dex II is slightly thinner then D4 on cSt, but all other specs almost the same
Redline high temp has a much lower viscosity index the either Dex II or D4
I don't think the 15° added protection is worth the VI loss.
FWIW, I have pretty much used Redline High Temp Dex III in all my cars that require Dex III. Starting using the high temp fluid based on longevity for track use. Although I don't track my 500e, I have used Redline high temp for over 10 years (in my 500e), both in my old transmission and my new one.
This shows the cSt of a few brands, (not MB) Though I've heard Fuchs is the MB supplier
As you can see, 236.10 match's Dexron III
MB updated the 722.6 transmission which was designed around the 23.10 to 236.14.
The Shell 3403 236.10 has a good reputation
Got a question for you here. the Valvoline Max Life synthetic has similar viscosity specs to the Shell 3403 and is readily available locally (unlike Redline D-4 would be) + it says it is compatible to Dex III on the bottle. Why is it not recommended for these units by you guys?
I'm speaking only for myself here but I'd use it till the cows come home, stay around long enough to remember why they left in the first place, and leave again. I don't have the slightest problem with it especially in an older transmission that hasn't been recently rebuilt or resealed.
Last edited:
Good to hear as it is 1/2 the price of the D-4 and unlike the Redline I can get it locally. Anybody here got experience with the Max Life in these trans? Couple local trans shops are recommending it for the 722 and so far the viscosity specs look promising so---.
I've used it in my '94 E420 for the last 40,000 miles or so. Its the original trans with 188k on it and still shifts smoothly (forward and backwards) with no noticeable issues.
The difference is the viscosity index.
Max Life is 156 and the Redline is D4 is 198
Big difference how long it stays in grade, and why it costs more
I would use the D4
MaxLife and the Castrol Transmax (which is what I have been using) are readily available, both Dex III compatible and excellent choices. I would not hesitate to use MaxLife, I've just been using Transmax instead. Both are usually side by side on the shelves.
Just change these ATFs at 25K miles and you're golden.
It would have been interesting to see how long your wagon "would" have gone with D4
And your E500 as well, maybe the reverse delay/clicking would have been at a later date.
My transmission will be a good test of longevity with a high spec ATF, time will tell
My position is, since you run ATF for 3 years or 25/30K miles
I don't see a reason to not use the best ATF like D4
Kind of like using Brad Penn oil. It's not cheap oil, right?
The Brad Penn oil is different -- the car REQUIRES oil with higher levels of ZDDP than current spec "off the shelf" oils have. I just changed the oil the night before last on the 560SEC. And I looked carefully at all of the visible cam lobes and followers I could through the open oil filler hole. There was not a single smidgen of discernible wear on the few lobes I could see, after 37K miles exclusively using the Brad Penn oil on that M117.
However, it is a different situation with MB 722.3 transmissions and Dex III specification ATFs. They are perfectly acceptable for use and the transmission DOES NOT REQUIRE that anything be used except Dex III spec ATFs, no matter who makes them. And honestly, I do consider Castrol Transmax and Valvoline MaxLife to be "name brand" Dex III specification ATFs, though they are not "boutique" ATFs like RedLine would be (or like Brad Penn is for motor oils).
Also, I spent several seasons back in the early to mid 2000s drag racing my E500, at least two of those seasons with nitrous-oxide. So I put my transmission under severe stress during that time.
"Coulda Woulda Shoulda" scenarios are interesting conjecture, but not worth bothering with.
Even your own original transmission died at 118K, by your own admission. That's less than my E500 (currently at 128K) and my E320 wagon (transmission lasted ~203K miles).
Caveat Emptor, Lord Vader !!!
However, it is a different situation with MB 722.3 transmissions and Dex III specification ATFs. They are perfectly acceptable for use and the transmission DOES NOT REQUIRE that anything be used except Dex III spec ATFs, no matter who makes them. And honestly, I do consider Castrol Transmax and Valvoline MaxLife to be "name brand" Dex III specification ATFs, though they are not "boutique" ATFs like RedLine would be (or like Brad Penn is for motor oils).
Also, I spent several seasons back in the early to mid 2000s drag racing my E500, at least two of those seasons with nitrous-oxide. So I put my transmission under severe stress during that time.
"Coulda Woulda Shoulda" scenarios are interesting conjecture, but not worth bothering with.
Even your own original transmission died at 118K, by your own admission. That's less than my E500 (currently at 128K) and my E320 wagon (transmission lasted ~203K miles).
Caveat Emptor, Lord Vader !!!
If you think ALL dexron III fluids have the same quality base stocks, anti-oxidents, flashpoint, and viscosity index you're mistaken.
And, since Dexron III is a obsolete specification, no manufacturer has to actually meet the spec set by the SAE.
They are definitely not "all the same"
Most members agree that synthetic engine oil is the way to go.
I feel the same thing applies to the 722.3 and ATF
Yep, service with Dexron III
That's my point, these are weak transmissions @ 20+ years old
, they need the highest quality ATF available
Especially if you're starting out with a new/reman transmission you want to last
Used, unknown service history can use any fluid since you really don't know how much life is left.
Just my observations seeing a few failed transmissions over the years "Honcho"__:|
Last edited:
Like all lubrication-related threads on auto forums, this discussion is going in circles, and I'm getting close to just closing the thread.
I doubt after all of this discussion if anyone's mind has been changed. People use the fluids they want to, and are comfortable with.
Personally, I am done "contributing" to this thread, and will let others continue the circle-jerk further. If I do see something worthy, I will award Chain Yanks as appropriate, otherwise have fun.
Cheers,
Gerry
I doubt after all of this discussion if anyone's mind has been changed. People use the fluids they want to, and are comfortable with.
Personally, I am done "contributing" to this thread, and will let others continue the circle-jerk further. If I do see something worthy, I will award Chain Yanks as appropriate, otherwise have fun.
Cheers,
Gerry
Got it the other specs I had seen were MUCH closer in viscosity. The rub with the Redline is not just cost it's that it is not available locally so if something happens to cause fluid loss I would have to be down until I can get a shipment.
Gerry I disagree on this one brother. I worked in a Trans shop years back until back and neck issues took me out of the game for good. The actual data on viscosity with different type/brand fluids Clark is throwing out I understand well and is helping me make some decisions here.
My first post, all I said was what ATF I used, and I agree with dave on the D4
I did not push any brand or type of fluid
Your endorsement of Maxlife as equal to Castrol was incorrect
No circle jerk involved
For the price point you want, the Castrol transmax D/M or Penzoil version have the best specs for non synthetic fluids
Viscosity index is a good indicator of quality
Amazon with free shipping (and Prime, if you're a member). Keep a few extra quarts on the shelf in case of unexpected loss. I generally keep enough for my next fluid change, that way it's not an issue. Same applies to any other stuff that isn't available locally.
Clark what data I had on the Max Life vs the Castrol and Shell was showing they were compatible but the data I had was incomplete on viscosity so thanks for what you posted brother.
One factor here is that it looks like my car has never had a fluid change. It has run infrequently enough that it should not be hurt BUT the 1st change will likely see a bunch of varnish and other debris come loose that will require that I change again in 15 K or so. This is one factor on going straight to the D-4 as do I want to drop $90 on fluid for that short a term? Makes more sense to hit this 1st round with a cheaper solid performing conventional D III compatible fluid like the Castrol the go synthetic with the D-4 on the next round at about 15 K down the road.
Went through the same thing when I bought my V-90 10 or so years ago as it also had never been changed.
Last edited:
FCI. I like it. 
Cars which haven't had the ATF changed in eons always scare me. Would probably be a good idea to use good dino oil for a brief change, and then change again to your preferred synthetic, assuming you're heading in that direction. These transmissions like to sprout leaks after 20 years, almost all the seals are cheap and can be replaced to fix the leaks, but it is NOT fun with the transmission in the car. BT, DT, many times. Got all my cars leak-free now though and my garage floor is happy.
Cars which haven't had the ATF changed in eons always scare me. Would probably be a good idea to use good dino oil for a brief change, and then change again to your preferred synthetic, assuming you're heading in that direction. These transmissions like to sprout leaks after 20 years, almost all the seals are cheap and can be replaced to fix the leaks, but it is NOT fun with the transmission in the car. BT, DT, many times. Got all my cars leak-free now though and my garage floor is happy.
Just FYI, if your 400 has had any dealer or MB specialist provided service at any of the 30K intervals it has almost certainly had a transmission fluid and filter change. It was non-optional centerpiece of any 30K interval service. Post or PM me your VIN and when I get back to work next Tuesday, I can see if the factory's stored data shows any of the services performed. Any service done at a dealer may be be logged in there.
