500E custom exhaust...

[gsxr]

Tubular headers can also allow more noise due to the thin tube wall. Again, some people may find this objectionable, but others may not. Tubular headers would also be more prone to corrosion, although proper coatings would help reduce that problem.

I still find it interesting that in the 22 years since the M119 was released, not one person (that I know of) has been able to produce a dyno graph showing before & after power curves for any custom exhausts - cat-back, full, headers, no headers, or otherwise. Lots of ButtDyno™ reports and discussion about how great it sounds, but actual power gains are conveniently ignored.

There may be some weight advantage in the neighborhood of 20-40 lbs (depending on how much is replaced), which is substantial, but again the ROI question comes up...

 

[gerryvz]

Dave makes a good point about noise I forgot to mention. That is another by-product of the thinner-walled headers.

I've seen and driven 300SEL 6.3s with custom headers. They do increase power, but at the costs of noise & service life. The thermal cycling is the cause, as you mention Christian. Those things get VERY hot, particularly at high rates of speed.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[sheward]

Increased noise would be a concern for me. It's one of the reasons i haven't changed mufflers or resonator. I fall in line with others here about wanting to hear the engine a bit more but not overly so. Actually headers and hi flow cats without a change in the muffler might produce nice results. I've also read about potential problems with the different metals expansion rates (stainless headers to aluminum heads) and in fact Porsche designed a small "accordian" section into the factory header on the 1986 944t motor to address this, although there was much more heat involved due to the turbo chargers close proximity. The shop i mentioned previously has experience building headers for small turbocharged motors as well so It's an issue I'll be looking into.
Dave, Didn't Niibe from Japan post figures from his custom headers/exhaust system years ago?

drew

 

[gsxr]

Drew, I don't think Niibe ever did post data on his headers, at least I don't recall any dyno sheets. He installed an AMG 6.0L crate motor and I'm not sure if he did dyno tests before & after his header install. Think I have photos of his headers somewhere, they were beeeeyouuuteeeeful!! Pure M119 p0rn.

 

[Honza]

First I would like to have the Brabus exhaust on my car but after some time I will keep the original because during the long trips around Europe would be the brutal sound little bit annoying

Today I found the video of the most insane exhaust system ever :-D

W220 with the F1 sound force you to take pills for headache every 10 minutes :-D

[video=youtube;D-iV59F7E7s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-iV59F7E7s[/video]

 

[2phast]

That is a insane sound. Seems to be very loud inside the cabin. Definately sounds like a F1, minus the double clutch gear changes though. It seems on one of his runs, he shifted into neutral and blipped the throttle.

 

[sheward]

I could live with that sound all day.

drew

 

[sheward]

I'd forgotten Niibe installed the 6.0L, Dave. Mercedes porn INDEED!

drew

 

[gsxr]

I *think* these are Niibe's headers... but I'm not positive. Anyone know for sure?

 

[DarkStar]

Insane!

 

[Alpina]

I *think* these are Niibe's headers... but I'm not positive. Anyone know for sure?

Stunning,,,,,,,,,,,,

But is there any clue about gain ??

 

[gsxr]

Stunning,,,,,,,,,,,,

But is there any clue about gain ??

Nope. Not that I know of.

 

[Alpina]

Nope. Not that I know of.

If not ......... why are M119 036 owners doing this ??

 

[gsxr]

If not ......... why are M119 036 owners doing this ??

That's a darn good question.

My viewpoint is, all the M119 tuners (AMG, Brabus, RENNtech, etc) were able to make 400-450hp and push that through the stock (!) manifolds & catalysts. If there was a magical 20-50hp to be found with fancy exhausts, I think it's a safe bet that they all would have offered custom headers/exhausts, but they mostly did not.

RENNtech was the one exception, although I've got a dyno sheet from a 6.0L with full headers/exhaust and it's almost a carbon copy of the dyno curve from a same year/build engine with stock manifolds/mufflers. In other words, based on the dyno graphs from these two R/T 6.0's, the exhaust is worth maybe 10hp, which is not much return for the $10k (!!!) that RENNtech charged for it. Like GVZ keeps sayin', NOS is da bomb for ROI...

 

[samiam44]

What's a NOS fillup cost?

My car has the full renntech exhaust and it sounds amazing. I don't think you can spreadsheet power gains- XX for cams, XX for header, etc. Did I say engine sounds amazing! In Muscle car data, there is almost no difference between long and short tube header- long wins by a hair. X pipe works better than an H in dual exhaust by a good bit (15-20 hp in new mustangs). By the way the factory system comes together, I bet there is probably 10 hp improvement. But you really hit a brick wall on improvements vs cost.

Renntech's headeres stainless steel, the extra noise really gets your blood pumping with the viseral noise above 4500 rpm.

I've looked at all the Brabus/Renntech data- I don't think their 6.0 liters make more than 400 hp without exhaust/cams etc. Cold intake/airbox might minimize drop off in the summer but probably has zero effect on max hp.

Gerry- imagine driving a 6.0 liter is like having the NOS on all the time=)

 

[gerryvz]

It costs around $45-50 to fill a 10-pound nitrous bottle.

With a 100-shot of nitrous, you're talking 410-420 HP, so probably a bit more than a normal 6-liter engine. Didn't the AMG 6.0 make, what, 381 HP?

I'm sure the tuners improved on that a bit, but even so, it's going to take exponential amounts of money (above and beyond the cost of the 6.0 conversion) to get a tuner 6.0 from 400HP to say, 425 HP. I just don't see the economics there, unless you're a money is no object type. And most of those types, have something newer and north of 500HP anyway. I mean, why mess around with a 500E when you can get something newer, more modern, factory reliability, with 500HP?

Vaeth several years ago (when I visited them) quoted me $20K+ for a 5.0-->6.0 conversion. Add another $5+K for labor, incidentals, and perhaps another $2K above that for shipping. Pushing $30K, and it's still a 500E. Look at what you can get used, for $30K. Makes the $3K out the door I spent on nitrous look like a bargain, albeit only usable at certain times. But nobody here (except J-Sauce) can argue with a 12.9 second ET at 108 MPH. Evey by today's standards, I woudln't get laughed off any dragstrip for doing that.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Jelmer]

To be honest, in my eyes there aren't many cars that can compete with the W124, aesthetic speaking.

And yes, there are many cars that are MUCH faster. But most of them SCREAM "Yarrr look at me, I'm a speeding-ticket-o-matic!", so people expect you to re-decorate the road surface with rubber and tickle their nostrils with smoke. The 500E is a diesel taxi cab for the unknowing, but still packs a punch.

I would prefer to spend 60k+ to get a 6.0 M119 with the fancy new camshafts and possibly supercharged, over buying one of those screaming, plastic race monsters that only driven by millionaires without taste or bald people who saved their entire life for it - Even if it was cheaper.

/rant. ;-)

 

[sheward]

Right with ya, Jelmer. It's hard to tell one marque from another these days. E500E, Unique beautiful design, build quality, understated, and you'll rarely see another. I'll leave the rest for the folks that can't seem to stay in their lane without electronic help.

drew

 

[Jimbo]

To be honest, in my eyes there aren't many cars that can compete with the W124, aesthetic speaking. /rant. ;-)

In terms of 4-door factory sedans.....yes , I agree the .036 has always had one of the best looks. I think we all will agree on that one.

For me, an old Jaguar E-type coupe from say the late 60s (with a new Chevy crate motor and electronics upgrade of course).... is truly car aesthetics done right.

 

[samiam44]

Gerry,

I thought the cost via RB tech was ~ 18k. FYI the Renntech car did 1/4 mile @ 118 mph=)

 

[gsxr]

Michael,

I think the RB Tech numbers were rough estimates... nobody was ever serious enough for them to generate definite cost. $18-$20k is a good ballpark though.

What RENNtech car (year/model/engine) had a 118mph trap speed? With or without NOS? That's incredible.

 

[TerryA]

BEFORE & AFTER

Out with the Y-Pipe and in with the Magnaflow resonator. It cut the resonance inside of the car in half.