Coolant Change

[mistermiata]

Hi Guys,

I will be replacing my auxillary coolant pump (no heat at idle), and overflow tank (dont like the look of the old yellowed tank), and figured it woild be a good time to drain the old coolant and replace with fresh coolant.

From what I have read it seems fairly staightforward.......drain radiator and open two drains in the block and refill with 50/50 mix of coolant and water.

Cant be that simple, right?? Any tips for a first timer?

How many gallons of coolant do I need?

Thanks!

Andy

 

[Jim]

Andy, Did you search...

http://500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1734-Adding-Coolant-Antifreeze-Corrosion-Inhibitor

Jim

 

[mistermiata]

Apparently not well enough LOL!

Thanks Jim!

 

[Cavanman]

The only tip I would add to the above is to go for a drive when you've finished your coolant change to ensure that all air bubbles etc. get purged.

When I changed my coolant (twice after I was given the wrong thermostat the first time...) I bled the system on the driveway after letting the car warm up etc. However after going for a drive and letting things cool back down, I had to add about another header tank-ful. I think you need to raise the engine speed and coolant flow to make sure all air is expelled and a short drive is probably the best method, keeping an eye on the guage of course.

Best of luck with your coolant change.

 

[gsxr]

Tips:

The late M119 blocks have drains which allow connecting a hose, so you can drain the block & radiator without spilling any used coolant. Loosen the plug very slightly, then attach a section of drain hose (the clear vinyl stuff from Lowes or Home Depot works fine), and turn the hose to open the drain. After fully draining the radiator & block, run a garden hose into the system when cold (at upper radiator hose and/or plastic tank) with all 3 drains open, to flush out residual coolant. If you're really anal you can do the same with the heater hose near the brake booster, to flush the heater core too. Let everything drain completely, close up the drains, and re-fill.

You'll find it's often easier to fill the block via the upper radiator hose then quickly connect the hose to the radiator. Having a second person assist helps greatly. With an empty system, it should take 5 quarts into the block via the upper hose, then another 4-5 quarts into the reservoir, and possibly 0.5-1.0 quarts more after the engine reaches operating temp and 'burps' the system. System capacity is about 12 quarts total, NOT 16 quarts as printed in all the manuals. For a 50/50 mix you'll use about 6 quarts of antifreeze. I've experimented with many .034/.036 coolant changes and found the hydrometer indicates 50/50 mix with 6 quarts a/f, and 33/67 mix with 4 quarts of a/f, which confirms a total capacity of ~12 quarts. EDIT: The TDM (Technical Data Manual) correctly shows 034/036 system capacity of 12.5 liters.

I would recommend pre-mixing the antifreeze with distilled water (or, non-softened tap water) and pour the pre-mix in, rather than putting in "X" quarts of antifreeze and topping off with water. If you don't pour in at least 8-9 quarts, DO NOT start the engine yet, the system is not properly filled. Fill the reservoir all the way to the top, when the level stops going down (after waiting 5+ minutes), put the cap on & start the engine. Watch the temp gauge closely, if it starts climbing to 100C, there is likely an air pocket in the system.

You may find it difficult to dispose of the drained coolant. Find your local hazardous materials collection site, which is usually free. Relatively few auto parts stores will accept used coolant, which is odd considering almost all of them take used oil. Please don't pour it on the ground or down storm sewers, and remember that coolant will kill any animals which drink it, so do not leave puddles of coolant under the car.

The coolant change process is so much fun, you'll likely end up stretching your next change interval to the 5-year/50kmi max allowed on the label of the G-05 bottle. EDIT: Skip to post #77 in this thread for more information about extending the change interval.

Finally - if you replace the plastic reservoir, also replace the sensor, and get the OE (or OEM Hella) sensor only ($20-$25). Also replace the cap as well, they are cheap for OE (OEM Reutter) at ~$5/ea. EDIT: The plastic reservoir is NLA from Mercedes as of approximately summer 2024. MBCC link here.

 

[gsxr]

I checked in my shop... the hose I used for the coolant drains on the block was 1/2" I.D. clear vinyl tubing. 1992 engines do not have this type of drain, all 1994 engines will have it... the break point was somewhere in 1993 but I don't know when (the factory docs aren't clear and/or conflict). There is roughly 2-3 quarts hiding in the engine block so yes, the block should always be drained (from BOTH drain plugs) when flushing the cooling system.

 

[mistermiata]

Went to my friendly neighborhood Benz dealer last night to pick up a gallon of coolant for my upcoming coolant change. The counter guy rung me up and I almost fell to the floor.....$29 total with tax for a gallon of coolant!

Are there any alternatives to the MB coolant? I remember reading somewhere about using a brand name coolant that you can get at Pep Boys for $5.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[Glen]

Zerex G-05 is essentially the same as MB coolant. Most NAPA stores carry it for around $11 to $13 per gallon.

 

[gerryvz]

$30 a gallon seems VERY steep. Last time I got the coolant at my local dealer I paid around $20 minus a 20% MBCA club discount. Sounds like the dealer may well be marking up the price of the coolant beyond MSRP, which is typical of dealers. If you are an MBCA member, see if they will honor a club discount.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

$29 with tax, assuming ~10% tax, is about $26 for the coolant alone. The part number is Q-103-0002, current MBNA list price is $22.50 so your dealership has a markup of roughly 15-20% above list. Typical tactics, unfortunately. Worse yet, they might be chivalrous and offer you 10-20% discount (from an MBNA club membership, etc) off their jacked up price, not off actual list; pulling your "discounted" price back to $22-$23... which was MSRP in the first place! Some dealers are worse than others, each is different. This is why most of us DIY'ers order from parts.com, BuyMBParts.com, or MBFL instead.

Anyway, yes, Zerex G-05 is what you want; but the days of $5/gal antifreeze are long gone. It had spiked up near $20 a few years back but it's finally back down to the ~$12 range that Glen mentioned.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/zerex/antifreeze/42

 

[MERCEDES26]

I need to drain the coolant from the block....can someone tell me exactly which are the block drain plugs..? Are they the allen-key type plugs just behind the motor mount brakets...??

 

[gsxr]

Coolant drain shown below for the late-style M119 block (1994-up) with the hose nipples for easy draining. The 1992-1993 blocks have the drain in the same location, but they are flat plugs which you remove completely. You need to remove/drain BOTH sides of the block, not just one. On the older blocks, it makes an impressive mess when draining.

NOTE: Photos attached are from a W140, the engine mount bracket is in a slightly different location. The drains are harder to access on the W124.

 

[h228]

Anyway, yes, Zerex G-05 is what you want

How did you determine that the Zerex G-05 is equivalient to the MBZ antifreeze?

 

[gerryvz]

This is well known and it is stated in MB documents that it is a substitute/equivalent. It's the same thing.

 

[gsxr]

Correct. G-05 is identical to the MB antifreeze. G-05 is often used because it is cheaper and/or easier to obtain than the MB dealer stuff.

 

[gerryvz]

The good thing is that you can get it at places like O'Reilly Auto Parts and other stores. Looks like it's up to about $17-18 a gallon now, though. Not that much of a savings over the factory stuff, but still enough that it's worth getting the G-05.

 

[gsxr]

Tech article worth reading:

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/antifreeze_article.pdf

 

[500 DXB]

$29 with tax, assuming ~10% tax, is about $26 for the coolant alone. The part number is Q-103-0002, current MBNA list price is $22.50 so your dealership has a markup of roughly 15-20% above list. Typical tactics, unfortunately. Worse yet, they might be chivalrous and offer you 10-20% discount (from an MBNA club membership, etc) off their jacked up price, not off actual list; pulling your "discounted" price back to $22-$23... which was MSRP in the first place! Some dealers are worse than others, each is different. This is why most of us DIY'ers order from parts.com, BuyMBParts.com, or MBFL instead.

Anyway, yes, Zerex G-05 is what you want; but the days of $5/gal antifreeze are long gone. It had spiked up near $20 a few years back but it's finally back down to the ~$12 range that Glen mentioned.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/zerex/antifreeze/42

Hi there Dave,

Would you recommend Prestone Precision blend cooltant as well for the M119?

Thanks

 

[gsxr]

Hi there Dave,

Would you recommend Prestone Precision blend cooltant as well for the M119?

Thanks

I am not familiar with this product, so I cannot say for sure. It would have to be a low-silicate formula. Prestone does not offer any antifreeze products in the USA which are suitable for use in Mercedes vehicles. I do not know if they sell anything in Europe that would be acceptable either.

 

[Christian_K]

Gentlemen let me chime in here again. A word of a warning from countless bad experiences users in germany had with the wrong/standard coolants in Aluminum engines like the M119.
I read it alot of times, if you don't use a coolant specifically design to Superb protect Aluminum you can save on large bill for head/block revise. There was just a case where a M104 engine had a blown head-gasket and later it turned out that the whole head was corroded around the water-passages inside. The user that drove this car for around 6 years, always did renew the coolant every 2 years and used a "standard/default" antifreeze coolant in greenish color. This killed him the engine/cylinder-head.

For that reason, on many German 500Es, W140s, etc with M119 and on some cars with M104 engine (only head is Aluminum) Mercedes says to only use a coolant called "Typ 30" or "Type 30". They put a sticker on the plug of the overflow-tank in read with description "Only fill Type 30!".
This coolant however is NLA. It's red/purple and some guys working at MB leaked that its nothing different than a rebranded "BASF Gylasantin G30".
Look at the bottle and read the description, it reads "ALU PROTECT" http://www.coler.de/col/sicherheitsdatenblaetter/basf/Technisches-Datenblatt-Glysantin_g30_deu.pdf

So whatever you want to fill in, make sure it Protects Aluminum. The Glysantin G30 might be not available in the US, so i would try to find something similar that is Silicate-Free and made for protecting especially Aluminum.

 

[ccc]

Hi 500E'rs and 400E'rs;
A question regarding coolant.
I noted at the BMW dealership the other day, when i picked up coolant to change fluid in the E36,
that BMW coolant is now 'extended duration" five year fluid. What convenience! So, anyone have knowledge
of the suitability of this extended change fluid in our W124's? My coolant has just been changed in the 2 Benz's,
so this is long range planning. The car's take too much maintenance anyway, so any legitimate maintenance savings
are fine with me.

Chris

 

[gsxr]

I believe the official change interval from MB is 3 years. However, the Zerex G-05 antifreeze (which is the same as the yellow MB stuff) label says it's good for 5 years / 150kmi. Personally I think it's probably safe to go 5 years with the yellow stuff, but more conservative folks will probably want to stick with the factory 3-year interval. If you go longer than 3 years, make SURE you do a full flush to get as much of the old stuff out as possible.

Note that MB has recently changed from the yellow formula to the blue G-48 nitrite-free coolant that BMW has been using for years. If you want to keep using the G-05 yellow antifreeze, you'll need to buy the Zerex brand, as you won't be able to get the yellow stuff from MB once current stock is sold out. I'm sticking with G-05 in all my cars until I find a good reason to switch to anything else.

 

[diaconovic]

There was just a case where a M104 engine had a blown head-gasket and later it turned out that the whole head was corroded around the water-passages inside. The user that drove this car for around 6 years, always did renew the coolant every 2 years and used a "standard/default" antifreeze coolant in greenish color. This killed him the engine/cylinder-head.

Hi Christian , are you talking about the blue coolant A000989082510 ?

That's what i have in my 500E , i hope it's correct for M119 ...

Is it the same as glysantin G48 ?

 

[emerydc8]

Coolant drain shown below for the late-style M119 block (1994-up) with the hose nipples for easy draining.

I just did this on my 1994. The drain bolts are super easy to access. I used a 12" long 1/4" extension and a 6mm Koken swivel hex. They torque back to only 10nm. I was surprised so little coolant came out of the block. I think I only got about two quarts. Maybe because the front end was jacked up.

 

[gerryvz]

You emptied the coolant passages on BOTH sides of the block, correct? That's one nice thing about the M104 ... only 1 block coolant drain

 

[emerydc8]

Yep. Both sides. Maybe it was the elevation of the front end. I think I eventually got it all out when I flushed it with the garden hose.

 

[gsxr]

There isn't much in the block. 2 quarts sounds about right. You will usually only drain out a total of approx 10 quarts from the entire system including the block. As noted previously, I believe the system capacity is about 12 quarts... NOT 16+ quarts as all the FSM docs state.

 

[M104-AMG]

Has anyone left either the radiator drain or the block drain open, and run compressed air (16 psi) through the cooling system to force out any coolant ? Just wondering if it could damage anything.

I also use a vacuum coolant fill system that creates vacuum in the cooling system, and then slowly let it suck-in the coolant mixture. This, combined with a Lisle spill-free funnel that attaches to the reservoir neck to bleed air from the coolant system while it is warming up to thermostat opening temperature has been invaluable (absolutely necessary on my 3rd gen RX7).

neil

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-24610-Spill-Free-Funnel/dp/B001A4EAV0
http://www.amazon.com/550500-AirLif...41&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=wurth+coolant+vacuum

 

[gsxr]

I blow compressed air through the heater hose by the brake booster, to push some coolant through the heater core. This maybe nets another pint or so. I've run compressed air through the radiator and block, but so little comes out it's not worth the effort. To get the last ounce removed you need to flush with a garden hose (in a COLD engine only).

Filling the 034/036 block via the upper radiator hose works extremely well, and eliminated the need for any other special burp procedures. Once the block is full, top up the reservoir to the neck (which appears overfilled), but when the t-stat opens the first time the level will drop. About 1 quart can be added after it cools back down. I've been through this many times on the 034/036. Other cars/engines/etc will be different of course.

 

[emerydc8]

Filling the 034/036 block via the upper radiator hose works extremely well, and eliminated the need for any other special burp procedures.

That was my experience too. I closed up everything but the reservoir and upper radiator hose at the radiator. With a gallon of Zerex G-05, I filled the reservoir to the top, then poured the rest down the upper radiator hose toward the engine until it was full. Then I connected the hose at the radiator. I ended up with about a pint left in the gallon jug.

BTW, here are some pics of the left and right block drain ports on my 95 E420.

 

[abbieaqua]

Try using the Evans Waterless coolants, it is proven to eliminate all problems associated with water based coolants. And it also improves your cooling system performance.

 

[DerFuror]

Just in Time for Winter

It almost feels like Christmas.



A very thoughtful member of the BW recently provided the word regarding the deal of the year on Zerex G-05 coolant. I got a well-packaged 6-gallon pack delivered within 3 days of order for a total cost of less than $11/gallon!

The fleet is very happily covered.

 

[gerryvz]

That's good, but not the same cost-benefit ratio as the gray switches.

 

[emerydc8]

Re: Just in Time for Winter

I saw that floating around peachparts a few weeks ago. I think shipping was free if you bought more than $50 (5 gal.) of G-05. Too bad I missed it by six months. Enjoy!

 

[clarkz71]

Yes, but it's $12.59 with free shipping for $50, so buy 4 gallons

http://www.zoro.com/i/G2079122/

 

[gerryvz]

You can get a six-pack of G-05 via Amazon.com for <$11 a gallon ... free 2-day shipping if you have Amazon Prime.

This is everyday pricing, folks....

http://www.amazon.com/Zerex-ZXG05RU...UTF8&qid=1416582767&sr=8-3&keywords=Zerex+G05

That said, I don't need much, so don't mind paying the $18 a gallon (I typically buy 1 or 2 at a time, because I dilute it 50-50 with distilled water) locally. Convenience for the amount I need, WHEN I need it.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Glen]

Gerry, that particular item is for the pre-mixed stuff. Amazon does have the regular stuff for $14.xx per gallon.

http://www.amazon.com/Zerex-ZXGO51-G-05-Antifreeze-Gallon/dp/B0033QNZZ0/

 

[clarkz71]

Yep, the straight stuff from Zoro comes out to $6.29 + $1 for distilled water per gallon

So, that's $7.29 for 2 gallons of 50/50

Peanuts

 

[DerFuror]

Buying a 6 pack of the "hi-test" G-05 qualified for an applicable discount coupon which knocked my total cost down to $10.90/gal (including applicable tax & free delivery).

 

[clarkz71]

Buying a 6 pack of the "hi-test" G-05 qualified for an applicable discount coupon which knocked my total cost down to $10.90/gal (including applicable tax & free delivery).

Safe to say it's hard to top that deal.

Nice

 

[DerFuror]

That's good, but not the same cost-benefit ratio as the gray switches.

Nothing can top the gray switches in cost-benefit...nothing!

 

[gerryvz]

Gerry, that particular item is for the pre-mixed stuff. Amazon does have the regular stuff for $14.xx per gallon.

http://www.amazon.com/Zerex-ZXGO51-G-05-Antifreeze-Gallon/dp/B0033QNZZ0/[/QUOTE]
Ahh, I didn't see the pre-mix label on the bottle. Thanks for the correction/clarification. It does look like Lord Vader's Zoro deal is the best.

 

[gsxr]

Full-strength G-05 is typically $16-$18 per gallon locally in Boise, plus tax, plus time and fuel to drive past all the potato fields. I'm seeing Amazon at $16.57 per gallon delivered at the moment. $12/gallon with free shipping (or less) is the best deal I've seen in a very long time. Maybe y'all have it cheaper locally, but not in Idaho.

Thanks much for the Zoro link, Clark! There is a $15 off $75 order coupon (PRESENT1) that is currently working, don't know when it expires though.

 

[clarkz71]

No problem. I can't take full credit.
Member ps2cho on Banzworld posted it.
Everybody reports very fast shipping
Like 2 days after order placed.

It's $17.99 here in Florida

 

[J-Sauce]

I ordered my 6 Friday. That should last me for about 7+ years. Thanks guys!

 

[clarkz71]

I ordered my 6 Friday. That should last me for about 7+ years. Thanks guys!

No problem sauce man.

With all the deals you give us, it's the least we can do.

 

[dorifuto.boi]

Does the Zerex G05 Antifreeze replace the MB Anti-corrosion Antifreeze Agent or do I need to add the blue MB Anti-corrosion Antifreeze agent to my Zerex G05 Antifrfeeze ?

I guess I'm confused whether the MB Anticorrosion Antifreeze Agent is an actual antifreeze or if its an additive that you add to antifreeze.

 

[gsxr]

Does the Zerex G05 Antifreeze replace the MB Anti-corrosion Antifreeze Agent or do I need to add the blue MB Anti-corrosion Antifreeze agent to my Zerex G05 Antifrfeeze ?

I guess I'm confused whether the MB Anticorrosion Antifreeze Agent is an actual antifreeze or if its an additive that you add to antifreeze.

Use Zerex G-05, problem solved. This is still available via aftermarket. No additives of any type are necessary.

The blue stuff is G-48, as MB no longer sells G-05 at the dealers. You can use G-48 if desired but I have yet to hear of any significant reason to switch from yellow to blue.

See attached PDF doc link for more info.

 

[nocfn]

And some are reporting G05 is pink in color. I bought 4 gallons last spring full strength to self dilute and they are still gold.

 

[gsxr]

And some are reporting G05 is pink in color. I bought 4 gallons last spring full strength to self dilute and they are still gold.

That's news to me! Any links or photos?