Dyno runs - how and what?

[Jelmer]

Yes, call me silly. But after all these repairs I've had, I want to know if my engine is performing PROPERLY now. So, I contacted a nearby tuning shop, asking them if I can let my car make a dyno run there. Costs me €75, well worth it to me.

(yes, 036, you can come )

So, are there any things I need to consider before doing this? I'd prefer not setting my car on fire, having the engine explode, or grinding the gearbox to a pulp of iron bits.

 

[samiam44]

Nope..

Per DaveM. You should disconnect the kickdown switch @ back of the tranmission. You can do that at home and drive it down to the shop. At the shop, disconnect the bowden cable. You want them to make the runs in 3rd gear. Engine temp @ 60C makes better power. If you do not have FGS, the guy needs to realize it's starting in second and only will upshift once before putting it on the floor.
Roar of a M119 is lovely=) Make sure your not leaking fuel and the motor mounts are not missing and you should be good. Dave will be able to fill in on what is typical hp/torque seen on dyno's for a good running 5.0 and 6.0 liter engines.

 

[Jelmer]

Thanks, sounds like I'm good, then.

There's no FGS. About disconnecting that cable: why would I want to do that? Kickdown at near-max RPM won't cause the gearbox to shift down, would it?

 

[Christian_K]

Thanks, sounds like I'm good, then.

There's no FGS. About disconnecting that cable: why would I want to do that? Kickdown at near-max RPM won't cause the gearbox to shift down, would it?

When the kickdown-switch is disconnected there won't be any kickdown at all...
However with the Gearbox in "S" mode in Europe it would shift down one gear into 2nd gear as soon as you press more than 1/2 throttle and IF the RPM is below 4000RPM or so...
And for a good graph of Torque/Power you would want it to measure before 4000RPM already, don't you?

Question is of course if the "E" mode is enough since it doesn't shift down on E when you go full-throttle (unless you are at below 1000RPM)

 

[Jelmer]

Ahhhh I get it. Instead of measuring power at every part of the RPM curve, it would shift down instead, so you can't get a proper low RPM reading. Never thought of that. I'll try my E-Setting, because the gearbox is already set so that it nearly doesn't shift back at all (except in kickdown) - still want that fixed one day.

I'll try and find the cable, though I really don't like to fiddle with that

 

[gerryvz]

I always disconnected the kickdown switch under the gas pedal, and also disconnected one of the ABS/ASR wheel sensors under the hood for my dyno runs.

I've posted my dyno sheets here for my own car with and without nitrous-oxide runs.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Jelmer]

Oh, that sounds even easier. Any short instructions on how to disconnect that switch, Gerry?

 

[Christian_K]

I always disconnected the kickdown switch under the gas pedal, and also disconnected one of the ABS/ASR wheel sensors under the hood for my dyno runs.

I've posted my dyno sheets here for my own car with and without nitrous-oxide runs.

Cheers,
Gerry

Hmm Problem is according to a digital-scanner that the LH-Module only getting the "WOT" Signal when you press the kickdown. Don't ask me why or what that is even good for, but i checked this on 3 W124 M119 powered cars (2x E420 without ASR + my own 500E)

 

[gsxr]

Required reading, if you want the most useful & accurate dyno data:

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...ricks-How-to-prep-your-400E-500E-for-the-dyno

 

[szvook]

I just would go to the track and run a ¼ mile, if you get within the listed ET when the 036 cars were new (low 14 seconds) then your engine is performing just right. A lot more fun and no need to mess around with kick-down switch, ABS/ASR wheel sensors, FGS, etc and it’s cheaper than €75. If your car can’t hit mid 14 seconds no matter what you try (a ¼ tank of gas, rear seats and rear tire removed, good tires) then the engine is bit low on performance.

Now if having charts showing exactly your ratings and curves are the preferred results, then take that path.

 

[Jelmer]

szvook, although that might be more fun (never did that before), I don't have the luxury of a private test track, nor do I have one nearby.

Also, a dyno run is more accurate and detailed, and I think it puts less strain on the engine, drive train and gearbox

 

[szvook]

szvook, although that might be more fun (never did that before), I don't have the luxury of a private test track, nor do I have one nearby.

Hmm, I thought by now Europe would have some 1/4 mile tracks open to the public.

Also, a dyno run is more accurate and detailed, and I think it puts less strain on the engine, drive train and gearbox

Running a few times from 0 to 100mph should not put any strain on a good working engine, drive train and gearbox...unless they are in bad condition.

 

[Christian_K]

No, sadly in europe there isn't any race or track "scene" at all :-(
This could be quite a huge market like in the USA.. When i imagine in every bigger Town/City a 1/4 mile racetrack, hotrodding, etc etc... And all the custom pistons, heads, etc manufacturers would settle over here....
I want to have this or i will finally move over to the US...

On the other Hand... we have the Autobahn with ZERO speed limit... hmmmm...

 

[Jelmer]

Nah, will never work. People would start complaining about the noise. Hell, here they put down train tracks, build houses near them, sell them WHILE trains are driving up-and-down the tracks, and after a few years the owners start complaining about the noise, and find some obscure law that allows them to force the government to do something about it (or pay them for caused headaches).

That said, I'd love a drag strip somewhere here. Only thing I know of is in the UK.

 

[bing]

No, sadly in europe there isn't any race or track "scene" at all :-(

doesn't Hockenheim set up a drag strip every summer??

 

[szvook]

On the other Hand... we have the Autobahn with ZERO speed limit... hmmmm...

I would trade the U.S. tracks access for the Autobahn and Nürburgring access at any time. My preference for tracks are twisty, I only go to the 1/4 mile track to hang out with other Benz owners/racers and run the car fast a few times. Beyond that, I have no interest to run 1/4 mile races that much - to me, that's not true racing.

 

[Jelmer]

Yes. Double yes. Triple yes! Wow. I love these cars.

A perfect day - 20C, sunny, flowers coming up, birds tweeting, and two cat-less 500E's driving through the neighborhood. Gotta love it!

Dyno run went O.K.. I *could* start to listen to you guys, but what fun would that be? I did disconnect the ABS sensor, but was too lazy for the kickdown cable... I had white pants on!

The sound is nothing short of incredible.

Enter the dyno *rubmle rumble*:
[youtube]5gSBhuxwu9E[/youtube]

Part 1:
[youtube]D0nnjcdPfVA[/youtube]

Part 2:
[youtube]KbsomMW8Pv4[/youtube]

Part 3:
[youtube]Pr2AqeeLciA[/youtube]

The result isn't all that good, but again, that's my fault. I did get an invite to come back later when it's cooler and when I DO disconnect that cable, he's interested in the results, too

 

[Christian_K]

Well that result is no wonder if the car was only revved at 5500RPM and you haven't had the kickdown-cable nor the bowden-cable disconnected.
Max Power is at 5800RPM, not 5500 on our M119s. Dave said you should pull it till the redline (6250-6300RPM), why hasn't this been done?
And why is there no Torque-curve?

Other than that, its cool to watch the Videos ;-)

 

[Jelmer]

It was revved to redline, that's the little dip. The kickdown caused the whole system to go haywire and screw up the RPM measurement.

 

[036]

Sound was so brutal... i came many times...

 

[gsxr]

If you want to see some videos of what it should be like (off idle to redline), without kickdown issues, check out the videos here:

http://www.w124performance.com/movies/Mercedes/dyno/94_E500/

 

[036]

gxsr- cool Stuff!

Here short summary

[youtube]Tl2lOrzu2X8[/youtube]

 

[BarringtonBrown]

I gave mine a run a few weeks ago - it's just had its 330,000km service and was run in fourth (didn't know about the kick down switch) and without the cool air pipes.

289.9bhp / 307.8lb/ft at the wheels.

I'll probably try it again (in third...) in a few weeks when the air pipes arrive from the German dealer.

 

[gsxr]

What chip do you have installed? Stock rev limit won't allow pulling to 6500...

 

[BarringtonBrown]

Standard. I don't think I've actually redlined the car on the road, so haven't been able to see whether it does actually pull to 6500!

 

[samiam44]

Is there a difference between DIN hp/torque and SAE hp/torque these days?

289.9 din hp @ rear wheels would be 289.9/.82= 353.5 hp at the crank. I'm not sure what US/EURO spec was.. in the USA the 500e is rated at 322 hp.
Is this dyno error or is the euro's rated at an extra 32 hp ?

Michael

 

[Christian_K]

Is there a difference between DIN hp/torque and SAE hp/torque these days?

289.9 din hp @ rear wheels would be 289.9/.82= 353.5 hp at the crank. I'm not sure what US/EURO spec was.. in the USA the 500e is rated at 322 hp.
Is this dyno error or is the euro's rated at an extra 32 hp ?

Michael

Euro Spec was 326HP and 480NM Torque (DIN!).
Good maintained cars with fresh filters, etc were reported to pushing rather around 330HP+ and close to 500NM Torque on the Dynos in Germany.
353HP however would be impressive for a stock car.

 

[bing]

Saw my former E500 on dyno today . 100% stock no prep. Tester says it's spot on given 10% here and there variant ? Current owner, my mate, says he's happy with the results.

 

[Christian_K]

For a car without WOT enrichment thats good