FYI Electronic Throttle Actuator (ETA) Rebuild

[rucraig]

If the ETA has not yet been rebuilt, that is most likely the root cause of the idling issues. Do you know the age of the ETA (date code), and if it's original?




The instrument cluster is discrete and completely separated from all engine management systems. If you lost all instruments, that indicates a power supply issue - need to inspect/clean all fuse ends/sockets, check battery terminals, maybe the ignition switch, check fuses in the BM/GM, etc. Check the FSM schematics for the instruments if needed. Loss of instruments will not be related to ETA/E-GAS, but the ABS/ASR lights would come on if the module lost power.




124-545-26-32 is correct for an early 500E outside of USA. An alternate number would be 124-545-44-32, this is for later 036 but is interchangeable. I don't know why the North American cars have different E-GAS numbers, how they are different, or if these are interchangeable with ROW modules.



1. I haven't seen that before. Not sure how to clean it. Also don't know if it's affecting the E-GAS functionality or if it's strictly cosmetic.
2. VERY few places repair, or claim to repair, E-GAS modules. Beckmann in USA said they could do it, but cost was over $1k last I checked.
3. eBay would be the primary alternate source, just make sure the seller accepts returns, or better yet has tested the unit and guarantees it's functioning correctly. Some eBay sellers claim a module is good/tested when they've done absolutely nothing to check it.

Before shelling out $$$$ for E-GAS repair/replacement, try sourcing one from a 140 chassis as mentioned previously and see if that magically cures all your woes. Once you confirm the E-GAS is actually faulty, then worry about repair/replacement. I have a NOS unit available but it's for North American cars, I'm not certain what the difference is with ROW.

Thanks for your always valuable thoughts. I'll come back with a more considered reply, but for now I'll flag possible interest in your e-GAS module.

 

[LWB250]

If you have that corrosion in the module, take a look at the diagnostic port. The pins are fairly prone to corrosion now.

If they're even there...

Dan

 

[rucraig]

If the ETA has not yet been rebuilt, that is most likely the root cause of the idling issues. Do you know the age of the ETA (date code), and if it's original?




The instrument cluster is discrete and completely separated from all engine management systems. If you lost all instruments, that indicates a power supply issue - need to inspect/clean all fuse ends/sockets, check battery terminals, maybe the ignition switch, check fuses in the BM/GM, etc. Check the FSM schematics for the instruments if needed. Loss of instruments will not be related to ETA/E-GAS, but the ABS/ASR lights would come on if the module lost power.




124-545-26-32 is correct for an early 500E outside of USA. An alternate number would be 124-545-44-32, this is for later 036 but is interchangeable. I don't know why the North American cars have different E-GAS numbers, how they are different, or if these are interchangeable with ROW modules.



1. I haven't seen that before. Not sure how to clean it. Also don't know if it's affecting the E-GAS functionality or if it's strictly cosmetic.
2. VERY few places repair, or claim to repair, E-GAS modules. Beckmann in USA said they could do it, but cost was over $1k last I checked.
3. eBay would be the primary alternate source, just make sure the seller accepts returns, or better yet has tested the unit and guarantees it's functioning correctly. Some eBay sellers claim a module is good/tested when they've done absolutely nothing to check it.

Before shelling out $$$$ for E-GAS repair/replacement, try sourcing one from a 140 chassis as mentioned previously and see if that magically cures all your woes. Once you confirm the E-GAS is actually faulty, then worry about repair/replacement. I have a NOS unit available but it's for North American cars, I'm not certain what the difference is with ROW.

My fuller response to your questions and thoughts is:

1. Age/originality of ETA: I'm not 100% certain but, based on the photo below, Victor at Restore Your Mercedes told me it is correct for the vehicle.
2. Regarding the loss of instruments, the workshop checked over fuses and other potential causes. Whatever they did solved it for now.
3. I agree the idling problem is most likely down to the ETA, so will probably pull it and send to Victor for testing and repair once we've eliminated any other problems - hence my current focus on the e-GAS module.
4. e-Gas module compatibility - this site's Wiki indicates your NOS unit probably would work. The mechanic who looks after the car has a W140 500 so we'll try his e-GAS.

One other thing to note is that recently a unit that I believe is some sort of solenoid, located near the EZL, has started clicking intermittently when the car is stationary - see video linked here: IMG_2150.MOV

When it is silent, the engine will sometimes idle correctly, The moment the clicking starts, the idle jumps to around 1000 rpm and fluctuates. I believe one of the vacuum lines going into this unit comes from the vacuum modulator on the transmission, and the other perhaps goes to the charcoal canister in line with the fuel tank venting. Do folks have any ideas about what might be causing this? I'm currently looking into getting a rebuilt trans from Sun Valley, and am also on the verge of getting every vacuum line replaced as part of fixing this idle issue.

Here's a link to a video of the offending unit:

I have a couple more questions for folks on this thread:

1. Does anyone have experience of ECU repairs done by Welcome at ECU Repair Centre, your adres for repair of car electronics, like ABS, Cruise Control, Ignitions modules and many other ECU's ? And are there any other European businesses repairing Mercedes ECU modules that you are aware of/can recommend?
2. Has anyone had Victor at Restore Your Mercedes repair an ETA? If so, could you please share your experience?

 

[gsxr]

Your ETA is dated 1991 per the label (91Mxx). If it's never been rebuilt, it's overdue. Part number is correct for a pre-facelift engine.

Clicking at the "MOT" valve next to the EZL is normal when at operating temperature, this is the purge valve for the carbon canister connected to the fuel system. It's burning off vapors. HOWEVER, the idle should not be affected - something is fishy here. There are only 2 plastic tubes, both 8mm, one from the carbon canister and the other goes to the engine intake. Totally separate from the transmission. IIRC the fitting at the intake manifold should have a restriction inside, if the wrong part is used, that might cause idle issues when the valve cycles (clicks)?

Definitely swap in the W140 E-GAS module and see if there is any change / improvement. If there's no change, your E-GAS may be fine, no need to repair/replace.

 

[rucraig]

If you have that corrosion in the module, take a look at the diagnostic port. The pins are fairly prone to corrosion now.

Thanks - another thing to put on the list as we hunt down gremlins.

Your ETA is dated 1991 per the label (91Mxx). If it's never been rebuilt, it's overdue. Part number is correct for a pre-facelift engine.

Clicking at the "MOT" valve next to the EZL is normal when at operating temperature, this is the purge valve for the carbon canister connected to the fuel system. It's burning off vapors. HOWEVER, the idle should not be affected - something is fishy here. There are only 2 plastic tubes, both 8mm, one from the carbon canister and the other goes to the engine intake. Totally separate from the transmission. IIRC the fitting at the intake manifold should have a restriction inside, if the wrong part is used, that might cause idle issues when the valve cycles (clicks)?

Definitely swap in the W140 E-GAS module and see if there is any change / improvement. If there's no change, your E-GAS may be fine, no need to repair/replace.

Thanks Dave.

 

[rucraig]

Has anyone had any experience with the firm in Germany, who have an ETA repair service? Kurth Classics Autoparts

 

[gsxr]

No, but their prices are insane... over $2000 USD (plus shipping) for a reconditioned ETA? At least they apply a shiny new replica label (minus any date code).

Throttle Body A0001419425 reconditioned

get this reconditioned throttle body for a fraction of the price of a new part

kurth-classics-autoparts.de

Throttle Body A0001417925 reconditioned

get this reconditioned throttle body for a fraction of the price of a new part

kurth-classics-autoparts.de

 

[rucraig]

I agree - those prices are super high. But I am interested in their repair service for €440

Mercedes Throttle Body Repair

get your throttle body repaired for a fraction of the costs of a new unit

kurth-classics-autoparts.de

 

[gsxr]

I agree - those prices are super high. But I am interested in their repair service for €440

Mercedes Throttle Body Repair

get your throttle body repaired for a fraction of the costs of a new unit

kurth-classics-autoparts.de

AH - thank you! I didn't see the repair option. That price is far more reasonable, if they replace the internal components which wear out, and don't just re-wire them.

From reading the description, it sounds like they do NOT proactively replace old components, they only replace them if already failed. Hrmmm. Not crazy about that concept:

​

We offer testing, repair (rewiring) and cleaning of your throttle valve that has been sent to us. ​

​

A separate calculation [GSXR edit- this means additional cost, right?] is made for e.g. the replacement of the clutch solenoid, for the repair of the potentiometer, repair/replacement of the electric motor of M104, M119, M120 throttle valves, replacement of missing components.​

​

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The throttle valve sent to us is subjected to an incoming inspection for repairability. Only then will the repair and return take place.​

​

​

 

[rucraig]

yep - always pays to read the fine print. Hoping to find someone here has used this service.

 

[LWB250]

The feedback pot isone of the more common failure items from my expereince, and that was something I really liked about the guy in Alabama - he replaced the pot or major components of it to return it to like-new operation. That and I believe he road tested them, too.

Dan

 

[MK500]

Guys. Any further updates on a firm that rebuilds the throttle actuator?
Thanks!

 

[gerryvz]

Guys. Any further updates on a firm that rebuilds the throttle actuator?
Thanks!

There are numerous threads — even very recently — here on the forum. Please use the search function at the top right of the screen.

This forum has an extremely advanced, fast and accurate search capability, including predictive suggestions that change in real time as you type in additional characters

 

[MK500]

Thanks. My guy uses Berkman. Good news on the endorsement!

 

[gerryvz]

Berkman.

Beckmann?

 

[MK500]

Yes. NC guy

 

[quantumorbit]

Just read about Don Roden retiring and his health, very sad. He sold me a refurbished ETA in May 2023 for my 93 500SEL. It didn't clear the ASR ABS light. Also replaced the wire harness, the brake sensor and basically tried swapping all the modules in the engine bay by the firewall. Don had suggested I replace the ABS module, never got to do it. I'm thinking the ETA on my 92 500E that is fully functional could serve to test my 500SEL? This would rule out a DOA ETA from Don back in 2023. The car operates in limp mode, the throttle opens mechanically when pressing the accelerator all the way. What do you guys think? Thanks

 

[gerryvz]

Did you replace the neutral safety switch?

 

[quantumorbit]

Haven't replaced neutral safety switch, wasn't aware this could be a cause for the ASR ABS light. A faulty switch doesn't prevent you from starting the car ?

 

[gsxr]

I'm thinking the ETA on my 92 500E that is fully functional could serve to test my 500SEL? This would rule out a DOA ETA from Don back in 2023.

Yes, they are interchangeable, but the wire is longer on the 500SEL ETA. Hopefully the 500E wire will be long enough to reach the connection on the 500SEL.

The car operates in limp mode, the throttle opens mechanically when pressing the accelerator all the way. What do you guys think? Thanks

The mechanical throttle opening only goes to about 50%. The electronics are needed to open 100%. Limp mode is essentially only using the mechanical portion and the electronic section is not working at all.

Haven't replaced neutral safety switch, wasn't aware this could be a cause for the ASR ABS light. A faulty switch doesn't prevent you from starting the car ?

The NSS on LH-SFI cars is a combination switch: Starter lockout (aka neutral safety), reverse light, and also gearshift position indicator. The latter function is what can cause limp mode if it sends the wrong gearshift position to the E-GAS module. This can be caused by 3 things: misadjusted NSS, defective NSS, or failed linkage bushings. The NSS is NLA so your options are slim if this is faulty (could be opened up and repaired though).

If you have not yet done so, you MUST check fault codes on the E-GAS module to see what is causing your limp mode. This will help pin down the root cause. Unfortunately, you need a digital scanner (HHT-Win, MT-2500, or similar) to get the 3-digit codes which are more specific than the analog blink codes. Details here.

 

[quantumorbit]

Thanks for the detailed response. Will look into that.

I have an Autel modern scanner but doesn't work on the old classic benzs. Definitely need a clone Xentry scanner, but have been overwhelmed with the information online and listing on eBay. Is it too much to ask if you can share a link of the one I should buy on eBay or other vender you can recommend considering my cars listed on my signature ?

 

[gsxr]

Thanks for the detailed response. Will look into that.

I have an Autel modern scanner but doesn't work on the old classic benzs. Definitely need a clone Xentry scanner, but have been overwhelmed with the information online and listing on eBay. Is it too much to ask if you can share a link of the one I should buy on eBay or other vender you can recommend considering my cars listed on my signature ?

There are a couple of threads on the forum discussing what SDS to buy these days... sadly, the Chinese vendors keep changing things and what was a good kit at the time of purchase, may either be NLA today, or has changed and no longer works properly. Search the for for details. TLDR - you need a system that confirms it has HHT-Win support, and also has a fully-populated 38-pin cable. Either a C4 or M6 setup should be ok if it meets those 2 criteria. Be careful with anything being shipped from overseas that may have unexpected duty/tariff due on delivery...

 

[quantumorbit]

Just ordered this one hopefully it’s the correct one.

M B star c3 with CF-53 laptop set diagnostic tool multiplexer ready to work

 

[gsxr]

Just ordered this one hopefully it’s the correct one.

M B star c3 with CF-53 laptop set diagnostic tool multiplexer ready to work

The C3 has a bad reputation for not communicating with the EZL (as detailed in old discussion threads on this forum). And, it says nothing about HHT-Win support. Contact the seller and have them confirm what I wrote in my previous post, that is has HHT-Win and a fully populated 38-pin cable. Otherwise, it will be a $900 paperweight.

 

[gsxr]

Very strongly recommend reading this entire thread:

Thread 'Exploring the MB STAR C3 (SDS)'

May 4, 2012

MODERATOR UPDATE: This information was posted in 2012. As of 2022-2023, the C3 systems have become nearly obsolete, with poor support from overseas vendors, and some C3 multiplexers not communicating with the EZL (ignition computer) found on LH-SFI systems. The SDS C4 with HHT-Win support is the current recommended unit as of late 2023. Search the forum for more information, the C4 must have HHT-Win support and also have a fully-populated 38-pin cable - not all vendors supply this! Make sure to do your homework before purchasing. Read posts #90 through...

• gerryvz
• Replies: 239
• Forum: De-Coding

• 

This one too:

FYI Thread 'Exploring the Super MB Star M6+ Diagnostic System'

Dec 22, 2024

This thread is intended to be an in-depth exploration of the new generation of the Chinese-made "Super MB Star M6+" diagnostic systems that came into production in the late 2023 period, and began being sold in early 2024.

---

Introduction

As discussed in recent (December 2024) posts in the “Exploring the C3” thread, there is a relatively new generation of MB diagnostic system that has been created by the Chinese, called the "Super Star M6+." This new diagnostic system was introduced around the end of 2023, or in early 2024.

I recently purchased and took delivery of...

• gerryvz
• Replies: 189
• Forum: De-Coding

• 
• 
• 

 

[quantumorbit]

Ok just asked seller to please cancel order while I read these threads and research some more. This seller had recommended a C3 when I explained I needed it mostly for my 500SEL. THANK YOU!

 

[quantumorbit]

Seller’s message below. Probably saying this without experience?

“Hello,yes,it is .HHT is for old vehicle .we can install old version and new version in one disk.​

Before 1996 year, better to use mb star c3. But 2014 ML350 only use mb sd compact C4 .because mb star c3 stop to update xentry version.​

We can pay tariff for you.​

Mb star c3 is better for you to work on 92 500E and 93 500SEL”​

They have 100% positive feedback and have sold many of these diagnostics tools.
Looks like a good option is this C4:

New MB SD C4 Connect Compact C 4 X e ntry D AS Star Diagnosis with CF53 laptop

 

[gsxr]

Yeah, their reply doesn't inspire confidence. HHT-Win is required for most all Mercedes with 38-pin diagnostic port through about 2002 model year, including all 129, 140, and 210 chassis. Mid-2000's and newer models will use DAS or Xentry.

The other issue is getting the 38-pin cable with all 38 wires inside. At some point, the Chinese vendors decided they could skimp and only connect about a half-dozen wires, rendering the cable almost completely useless. Why this happened, I have no idea, but it caused all sorts of headaches as described in the above threads.

 

[quantumorbit]

Appreciate you taking the time to point me in the right direction. I will report back once I try this vendor if their products are any good.

 

[gerryvz]

The neutral safety switch is very often a culprit for ASR/ABS lights going on, and the car going into limp-home mode. Sadly these switches have gone NLA from MB in recent years.

There are numerous threads here on the forum detailing the replacement of the NSS and the issues it can cause with regard to the ABS/ASR light.

It is one of the most common culprits, yes.

 

[archjo]

great thread

 

[quantumorbit]

UPDATE...

Ended up buying the C3 with HDD to install on a Dell D630 laptop I already owned, and also bought a C4 complete package with Panasonic toughbook CF-53. It was held by US Customs for almost a month and charged tariffs twice, while the package was in transit from Hong Kong and again towards the end of their process. This was frustrating since I was supposed to bring it back while visiting US for Thanksgiving, had to figure out Plan B.

Haven't been able to boot the system using the HDD included with the C3 combo. Still working with vendor to figure out problem. Will report back later.

The C4 combo seems to work. They included 2 partitions to be able to boot on 2 different versions of the software. Partitions are named: 16.05 and 25.09.

When I boot into 25.09 partition I get 37.8.2.4 Xentry Diagnosis version but when I open DAS I get a blank screen. Haven't found a way to make it work.

When I boot into 16.05 partition I get 19.11.2.0 Xentry Diagnosis version, DAS opens fine with HHTWIN interfase but when trying to run diagnosis it gets stuck in screen with alert "switch ignition on". I already checked pin 1 has ground and pin 4 +12V when ignition is on, so the problem is with either the 38-Pin adapter or the software / multiplexer.

So to summarize it hasn't been a good experience so far, will keep trying to make it work. Any recommendations are welcomed.

 

[grob115]

Yeah, their reply doesn't inspire confidence. HHT-Win is required for most all Mercedes with 38-pin diagnostic port through about 2002 model year, including all 129, 140, and 210 chassis. Mid-2000's and newer models will use DAS or Xentry.

The other issue is getting the 38-pin cable with all 38 wires inside. At some point, the Chinese vendors decided they could skimp and only connect about a half-dozen wires, rendering the cable almost completely useless. Why this happened, I have no idea, but it caused all sorts of headaches as described in the above threads.

Has anyone got a link for a fully populated 38pin cable for the C4 by any chance?