Engine (Upper) Wiring Harness

[need2speed]

Re: |Wiring Harness

FYI, the starter harness routing is totally different between the 400E and 500E. No idea why the factory did that, but it's definitely not the same.

Dave, this brings to mind a quote from an old article on the W124.036 which stated the 034 was also assembled by Porsche. Is this confirmed?

 

[gerryvz]

Re: |Wiring Harness

The 400E / E420 very definitely was NOT manufactured by Porsche nor had any engineering work done by Porsche. It was 100% Mercedes effort, manufactured and assembled in Sindelfingen.

 

[DerFuror]

Re: Porsche & the 400E

The 400E / E420 very definitely was NOT manufactured by Porsche nor had any engineering work done by Porsche. It was 100% Mercedes effort, manufactured and assembled in Sindelfingen.

The November 2004 issue of Mercedes Enthusiast, page 51, claims otherwise; stating the following:

"In October 1992, Mercedes launched a "special offer" version of the car, the 400E, a worthwhile saving of DM50,000 over the 500E. Also assembled by Porsche, it used the 4.2-litre V8 from the S-Class, producing 278bhp. Acceleration from 0-60mph was fractionally longer at 6.8 seconds, but top speed was the same."

 

[gerryvz]

Re: |Wiring Harness

This is incorrect, as is the MBCA STAR magazine article that said that 1994 and 1995 model year E500s were NOT manufactured by Porsche in Zuffenhausen. There is photographic evidence that this is not the case (E500s being assembled/parked next to Audi RS2s -- the successor car that was produced at Rossle-Bau) not to mention the fact that Porsche has an E500 Limited in their Museum. They would have put a 500E in there if they had not produced the E500.

Not to mention the 034 (400E/E420) was made in significantly higher volumes than the 036 was -- there was no way in hell that Porsche had the capacity at Rossle-Bau to manufacture both models side by side. Heck, with their facilities and workforce they could only pump out ~10-12 E500Es per day....

So much misinformation out there....

 

[gsxr]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Yeah, if I had a nickel for every time some car mag got their facts hosed up. *sigh*

Note that the 400E generally was not able to exceed ~150mph in top speed testing, at least for USA models; which is below the 155mph limited speed of the 500E (capable of gearing-limited low 160's when uncorked). Euro-spec 400E's had 2.65 gears so they could be different; although I'm still not sure it could manage 150+.

 

[DerFuror]

Re: Porsche & the 400E

So much misinformation out there....

Evidently an example of the Mercedes Enthusiast getting a little over-enthusiastic...
SINDELFINGEN!!!

 

[teabreak]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Does anybody know where you can buy a harness chaper then a main dealer for a sl60 amg ?

 

[gerryvz]

Re: |Wiring Harness

You can and should order such a beast via parts.com.

 

[gsxr]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Teabreak, it helps if you post your location in your profile (at least what country you are in).

Gerry, does parts.com ship international (i.e., outside the USA)?

 

[gerryvz]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Gerry, does parts.com ship international (i.e., outside the USA)?

Parts.com (MB of Naperville, IL actually) only ships to US addresses, and does NOT ship to PO boxes.

Furthermore, they only ship glass items to automotive businesses. Something small like a rear-view or door mirror would likely be considered a regular part.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[ghm]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Just had my lower wiring harness replaced. No symptoms but I could see the insulation coming off the small wire by the alternator. Car was in the shop for a new master brake cylinder and so I had my indi do the job, he told me it was no fun even with a lift and all the right tools. I opened up the old harness and sure enough the insulation was bad, specially on the small wires, photo attached. My guess is that all original harnesses are in a similar condition, though I have not seen reports of issues specific to the lower harness.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: |Wiring Harness

The wires in your photo that weren't cracked may not actually be electrical wires - some harnesses have non-electrical stiffening pieces that run alongside the wires in the bundle.

I recently replaced the lower wiring harness on my wife's 1995 E320 wagon and the wiring was in very poor condition. My E500 is still running its original lower harness.

 

[ghm]

Re: |Wiring Harness

The wires in your photo that weren't cracked may not actually be electrical wires - some harnesses have non-electrical stiffening pieces that run alongside the wires in the bundle.

I recently replaced the lower wiring harness on my wife's 1995 E320 wagon and the wiring was in very poor condition. My E500 is still running its original lower harness.

Interesting. I took another look. I could not see any stiffening pieces but the insulation on the main cable in the harness is quite thick and does stiffen the harness. It is red in one section, white in another, and seems to be in decent condition. Maybe not the same material as the insulation used on the smaller wires.

 

[Spruce500e]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Lots of good info here. Looking to order correct parts for the wiring harness job I have noted the following for the upper harness 1245439526 and 1245402730 for lower harness the last of my VIN is 754823. Is it really necessary to replace the lower harness?

 

[Klink]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Is it really necessary to replace the lower harness?

If it's original, then yes most definitely you should replace it. It is not already causing you problems, it will.

Lower engine harnesses are potentially a far bigger problem than the upper engine harness. In the worst of cases involving the upper engine harness and ETA pigtail, your engine doesn't run, or runs poorly, or maybe an expensive item or two gets electronically damaged.

In the worst cases, a damaged lower harness is a fire hazard. At the next level down from "worst case" it can lock your starter solenoid fully engaged, destroy your alternator, and damage your instrument cluster, along with the oil level switch uand the oil pressure sensor unit.

Disintegrating wiring insulation is never a condition to be trifled with. Replace it, and be done with it.

 

[Spruce500e]

Re: |Wiring Harness

If it's original, then yes most definitely you should replace it. It is not already causing you problems, it will.

Lower range and harnesses are potentially a far bigger problem than the upper engine harness. In the worst of cases involving the upper engine harness and ETA pigtail, your engine doesn't run, or runs poorly, or maybe an expensive item or two gets electronically damaged.

In the worst cases, a damaged lower harness is a fire hazard. At the next level down from "worst case" it can lock your starter solenoid fully engaged, destroy your alternator, and damage your instrument cluster, along with the oil level switch and the oil pressure sensor unit.

Disintegrating wiring insulation is never a condition to be trifled with. Replace it, and be done with it.

thank you for the prompt and thorough reply. Can someone confirm the part numbers I listed are correct for my VIn on a 92 500?

 

[Klink]

Re: |Wiring Harness

thank you for the prompt and thorough reply. Can someone confirm the part numbers I listed are correct for my VIn on a 92 500?

Your numbers are correct for your VIN according to the EPC.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: |Wiring Harness

There are informative, detailed and accurate/well-researched entries in the Wiki section that include part numbers for both the Upper and Lower harnesses.

Please use the Wiki as a reference for these "major" types of enquiries, in the future.


Upper: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/wiki_index.php?title=Upper-Wiring-Harness

Lower: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/wiki_index.php?title=Lower-Wiring-Harness

Thanks
Gerry

 

[Spruce500e]

Re: |Wiring Harness

There are informative, detailed and accurate/well-researched entries in the Wiki section that include part numbers for both the Upper and Lower harnesses.Please use the Wiki as a reference for these "major" types of enquiries, in the future.Upper: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/wiki_index.php?title=Upper-Wiring-HarnessLower: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/wiki_index.php?title=Lower-Wiring-HarnessThanksGerry

I saw those and that's how I got the part numbers I was just doing a double check before I ordered. I always do my research is there harm in double checking this info?

 

[gerryvz]

Re: |Wiring Harness

The Wiki entries have been vetted by numerous people here as to accuracy of things like part numbers, and are revisited periodically to requote current pricing. I also believe the part numbers for the harnesses are quoted in numerous posts here on the forum pertaining to the topic.

 

[Spruce500e]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Yes and as my post noted that's where I found the parts. I was just asking for someone to validate my findings were accurate specific to my vehicle. I'm not asking or suggesting the information in the threads needs to be validated.

Thanks to those that replied I'll refrain from asking these type of questions in the future.

 

[kubasz]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Hello guys

i would like to share some info about upper wiring harness. I started small business about restoring upper wiring harnesses for M111, M104, M119 and M120 engines and i can tell that all 500E and 500SE(L)s, 400E and 400 SE(L)s all have the same diagram for UWH. There is a brakepoint where internal conections changed slightly but all 500E->E500 and 400E->E420 swaps are possible. This change is about distributing power +12VDC to cam adjusters and injectors. Thats all. But once i recived a 500E UWH for repair and i was really suprised. This wiring was replaced already and it was most recent version with a lot less colored wires inside. All injectors were supplied with 12V by white wires, cam adjusters were supplied with blue, there were some gray, yellow and green wires too. I think that this recent version is for the later cars 124 440 20 06. Biggest difference in all LH M119 UWHs are the exterior attachment but i think that 400E/E420 will work on 500E/E500 if 500 owner doesnt bother about the external look. Also 400 is a bit longer than 500.

 

[Spruce500e]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Well I finally took this job on this weekend with the help of 2 friends and that made a huge difference. Along with DIY here and DIY from Pelican everyone was spot on with the level of fun the lower harness provided. I did run into 1 issue and that was the lower loom by the firewall I couldnt get the bolt out. So I was able to thread it through the loom and keep the old loom in tact and proceed along.

I did find the tags and both harnesses were very original lower date was 1991 and upper was 1992. No pics yet will snap some later but suffice it to say my mates helping me were surprised the lower even worked as all you saw was exposed wires. I only have 66k on the car.

Also having a fun time trying to refit the sheath through the firewall for the wires and hose.

Probably not the worse you all have seen and yes my pic abilities are poor.

And if someone can provide pointers on getting that sheath thats holds all these buggers back together in the firewall back together I'd be loving life.

Havent fired her up yet still have few other jobs to complete too.

 

[nocfn]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Cannot wait to see your pics brother (spruce owner), good job!

thanks for the picks

 

[need2speed]

Re: |Wiring Harness

This thread was a memory jog to plan ahead for upper and lower preventative replacement, so I called my local indie for a parts quote: upper Cdn $785, lower $565 (US $610 and $440 respectively), both special order from Germany and shipping included. Still seems about $200 high but looks like Parts.com doesn't list them, any other sources?

Shoulda bought last year when our dollar was at par...

 

[nocfn]

Re: |Wiring Harness

To the OP, sorry for the HIJACK!

 

[Spruce500e]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Is there a special trick to getting the loom holder installed in the firewall?

I dont think inspent that much for both harnesses when purchased earlier this year and they were all in stock in the lower 48

 

[gsxr]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Is there a special trick to getting the loom holder installed in the firewall?

It's a royal PITA. Make sure you have each of the harnesses in the correct location in the split holder. It presses into the firewall maybe half-inch higher than final postition, and you slide it downward into place. It's one of those jobs you want to do only once... so make extra sure all the harnesses are routed properly around the heater hoses & whatnot.

 

[Spruce500e]

Re: |Wiring Harness

It's a royal PITA. Make sure you have each of the harnesses in the correct location in the split holder. It presses into the firewall maybe half-inch higher than final postition, and you slide it downward into place. It's one of those jobs you want to do only once... so make extra sure all the harnesses are routed properly around the heater hoses & whatnot.

thanks for for this does anyone have a pic of the finished product so I can model after? Thought I took pics of the before but cannot find it

 

[need2speed]

Re: |Wiring Harness

To the OP, sorry for the HIJACK!

Well it was 2010, and a general question about harness replacement, so I don't think you need to be sorry. Seems the thread is continuing on topic...

 

[need2speed]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Went with Tom and the Classic Center. Current prices are $383 upper and $224 lower, plus shipping/exchange/customs :-0 Still, I saved a bundle over the stealership.

 

[gerryvz]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Get those danged harnesses while the price is low, because it's only a matter of time before the price gets jacked......

 

[gsxr]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Get those danged harnesses while the price is low, because it's only a matter of time before the price gets jacked......

Yep. Just like the mirror booties and Euro headlights, folks won't be happy when the price doubles or triples...

 

[Glen]

Re: |Wiring Harness

Get those danged harnesses while the price is low, because it's only a matter of time before the price gets jacked......

+1

 

[mbzchip]

Re: |Wiring Harness

I'm guessing this has been answered in the past.........what's your recommendation from where to purchase.

 

[bing]

Re: |Wiring Harness

I'm guessing this has been answered in the past.........what's your recommendation from where to purchase.

Went with Tom and the Classic Center. Current prices are $383 upper and $224 lower, plus shipping/exchange/customs :-0 Still, I saved a bundle over the stealership.

MBUSA, LLC
9 Whatney
Irvine, CA 92618
www.facebook.com/MBClassicCenter
www.mbusa.com/classic

Desk: 949-598-4842
Fax: 949-598-4870
Email: thomas.hanson@mbusa.com

 

[gmwind]

Re: |Wiring Harness

We picked up a '93 500E a few weeks ago and have been busy sorting it out. Among the planned activities, is replacing the upper and lower wiring harnesses. Harnesses 124 440 20 06 and 124 540 27 30 have been purchased...however a third harness was mentioned by the Classic Center as being NLA. That part number is 124 540 54 05 124-440-54-05 (pictured below). Is this one that normally gets replaced?

 

[gsxr]

Re: |Wiring Harness

We picked up a '93 500E a few weeks ago and have been busy sorting it out. Among the planned activities, is replacing the upper and lower wiring harnesses. Harnesses 124 440 20 06 and 124 540 27 30 have been purchased...however a third harness was mentioned by the Classic Center as being NLA. That part number is 124 440 54 05 (pictured below). Is this one that normally gets replaced?

No. That is the body/chassis harness... and to date, I've never heard of one needing replacement on a W124. If it was available, MSRP is currently over $4400 USD, and it would require disassembly of pretty much the entire front of the car to replace it (insane number of hours).

That part number is for 1993 USA model years only, btw. Looks like all three are NLA.

1992 USA model year: 124-543-59-06
1993 USA model year: 124-440-54-05
1994 USA model year: 124-440-23-32

Euro cars used different part numbers, four different p/n's without catalyst; another four different p/n's with catalyst...

 

[lowman]

if i understand correctly..this is the engine wiring harness that goes FROM the can box..and that is the wiring harness i had problems with..the engine crank only situation..
and i have seen another example with the SAME fault...i helped that guy out with the faultfinding..

But its possible to fix without replacing the whole harness..but i think this is going to be a possible culprit on more cars in the years to come.

 

[gsxr]

Pics attached of a harness which is 1 digit off. My EPC is not showing anything for the p/n on the box (124-543-60-06), which is odd... however the p/n on the cable itself (124-543-94-32) is for a late 92 / early 93 Euro 500E with catalyst.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCEDES-W124-ENGINE-HARNESS-500E-E500-1992-1993-/121397706745

MERCEDES W124 ~ ENGINE HARNESS ~ 500E E500 1992-1993

NOS, NEW OLD STOCK, OEM, ENGINE HARNESS.
PART # ON BOX 124 543 60 06 / 1245436006
PART # ON HARNESS 124 543 94 32 / 1245439432
YOUR PRICE ONLY $500.00
TAKE A LOOK AT THE PICTURES.

FITS W124:
500E - E500 1992 -> 1993

eBay seller ID is: mercedespartsguy​

 

[lowman]

at least the wiring harness in that picture..is th wiring harness where the i found the fault on my car ..and the guy i helped out ,,had also the same fault as i did .break in the Z point on ONE of the power feeds to the LH unit.

 

[Rouven036]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCEDES-W124-ENGINE-HARNESS-500E-E500-1992-1993-/121397706745

MERCEDES W124 ~ ENGINE HARNESS ~ 500E E500 1992-1993

eBay seller ID is: mercedespartsguy​

This guy had 2 new harnesses, one of them I got but iirc by that time (maybe a bit more than a year ago) it was 150$ only. The harness is manufactured in 93, it's quite a thing and reasonable only to replace when the engine is out. I m considering to do that with the Motor swap.