Feind stage I and stage II sway bars

[BH15]

Thanks gerryvz!

I'll send Jackasic a PM. Do you suppose that's the best/quickest way to contact him?

I remember seeing him saying somewhere that he doesn't check the forum much lately.

Also, I wonder why he doesn't just have them up for sale on the fiend website?

B

 

[SayHey]

and when Stage 2 will be available?)

 

[500AMM]

and when Stage 2 will be available?)

Hello,

I think Jackasic is a very busy man, and based on my latest contact with him at early springtime, is any further development of swaybars listed in this thread cancelled. I don't know when & why that decision was taken, but the bars can be made upon request if someone really wants them - which I thought this thread intentionally confirmed.. :?:

 

[jhodg5ck]

Stage II is a ways off.

Not for nothing, but we race/track on just the rear bar and the car stays FLAT with h&r's & koni's.



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[gerryvz]

I visited the Jack-Man about 2 months ago at his Batcave, which is about 80 minutes' drive from my house. As far as I know, he is very nearly -- if not totally by now -- sold out of the 124 rear bars. Perhaps if there is a demand, we can get another batch made.

I also believe he is sold out of the 126 rear bars.

 

[gsxr]

Stage II is a ways off.

Not for nothing, but we race/track on just the rear bar and the car stays FLAT with h&r's & koni's.

Sounds like Stage 2 might be overkill...?

:?:

 

[jhodg5ck]

For anything but track use, yes...I strongly suspect it will be.

If someone Really wants it stiffer get some sway bar bushings made in 90 shure urethane... That's some Tough stuff!

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[Lynch]

Just stumbled upon this thread and would appreciate if someone could fill me in.

I understand what sways are for, so my questions are:

1) What are the Stage 1 and Stage 2 sways designed to do? Is there a goal behind these, and are there specific reasoning (such as correcting oversteer or understeer, eliminating body roll) for the widths of each bar? Would love to understand the R&D reasoning behind it.

To elaborate a bit more, when designing/tuning suspension, sway bars are almost always the last piece of suspension to add onto the existing setup to "fine tune" it, so naturally, it is important for me to hear a bit more about the engineering behind these, and see if it was designed to play nicely with the 036 stock suspension.

2) What are people using these for?

3) Coming from RWD with LSD units (E92, lots of torque), I've always been advised to avoid stiffer rear swaybars, as a too stiff rear ruins traction completely, and becomes dangerous to drive at times, even with a LSD. This experience/advice was passed to me by people who track E92 M3 and 335i on SCCA track days, and have lots of experience, and urge me to not go with a stiffer rear sway for RWD.

Basically, what they mean is that since the cars are RWD, even with a LSD unit, with lots of power and torque, it will become more difficult to put down the power to the wheels if the rear is too stiff, especially on corners and what not. A more flexible rear end would have more traction = more power = more control.

Hope to hear some thoughts regarding this, as I'm super happy to see these as an option, but am concerned about safety and diminishing performance. I would love to add these to my 036!

 

[Glen]

I believe Stage 1 in this particular case referred to a larger rear bar and Stage 2 was for a larger front bar. Here's the reasoning, from the factory the E500E tends to understeer. 320 HP was quite a bit in the early 90's and Mercedes being a conservative company, designed for (CYA) safety rather than flat cornering. In addition, these cars came with a somwhat small, square wheel/tire setup. For those of us that run staggered wheels, understeer is even more prevalent...hence the need for a larger rear sway bar. In a nut shell, the stock E500E has undersized rear sway bars with modern staggered wheels.

In the case of your E92, while some here may not admit it [] handling is light years ahead of a stock E500E and much closer to neutral (while still having some inherent understeer). You just don't need a larger rear bar for the M3.

 

[Lynch]

I believe Stage 1 in this particular case referred to a larger rear bar and Stage 2 was for a larger front bar. Here's the reasoning, from the factory the E500E tends to understeer. 320 HP was quite a bit in the early 90's and Mercedes being a conservative company, designed for (CYA) safety rather than flat cornering. In addition, these cars came with a somwhat small, square wheel/tire setup. For those of us that run staggered wheels, understeer is even more prevalent...hence the need for a larger rear sway bar. In a nut shell, the stock E500E has undersized rear sway bars with modern staggered wheels.

In the case of your E92, while some here may not admit it [] handling is light years ahead of a stock E500E and much closer to neutral (while still having some inherent understeer). You just don't need a larger rear bar for the M3.

Thanks for the informative writeup. It definitely resonates with me as to how Mercedes would design it, and how we can improve upon it.

I'd argue that the E92 has some (minimal) understeer as well with stock, possibly because I assume understeer is safer, and BMW is worried about people getting in trouble with a loose rear.
That said, it is still debatable whether people prefer to remove the understeer with stiffer rear sways, but at the expense of slightly worse traction, or the better method (in my opinion) of getting different (properly chosen) spring rates and coilovers.

Regardless, it's very interesting to discuss and hear people's thoughts on this.

Still wondering, in terms of driveability, what would the difference between Stage 1 and Stage 2 be, and what are some deciding factors in choosing one over the other?

For my personal usage, I would be tracking this car when possible and would like it to be suitable/less body roll/stiffer for that, but still be perfectly fine for daily usage.

Quoting the OP post:

stock

• Front: 28mm
• Rear: 18 mm

Stage I - about 4 weeks

• 21mm (7/8), rear bar only - $230 (includes new poly bushings) ($265 shipped)
• works with stock SLS
• up grade to greaseable bushings - $11 ($276 shipped)

Stage 2 - about 6 weeks

• 32mm (1 1/4") front - $275 (includes new poly bushings)
• 23~25?mm (still working on the final size) rear - $245 (includes new poly bushings)

Would stage 2 provide a neutral bias, but stiffer/less body roll for both ends?

I would love to install these on my 036, but will be driving it stock for a while before making a decision. Happy to hear people's thoughts.

Also, I'm interested in buying a set, but seems like I've missed the boat on Stage 1, and Stage 2 might be too overkill for my purposes. Hope we can get another batch going.

 

[Glen]

Stage 2 front bars were never manufactured, as far as I know. Personally, I don't think it's needed for a street car. Hopefully Jono will comment as he tracks a 500E with the Feind Stage 1 rear bar.

 

[jhodg5ck]

I street and track one in my 036's... Liked it so much I just added one to my 034 along with a 500 front bar (ex Renntech 6L w/ a quaife 2.82).

Anywho, its a spectacular addition to anyone looking to get their 500 to Push less. Couple it w/ a diff and life will be Grand...

I Think we might have one or two bars left here...I'll need to check.

Jono

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[Lynch]

Hi Jono,

Thanks for the reply!

Is the front bar needed and how does it change the handling? Would you say stage 2 is similar to having the front and rear bars?

 

[Lynch]

Also another thing to ask, if I were to get AMG front sways (30mm), would I be able to pair that with the Stage 1 rear sways, or should I simply just get the full stage 2 sways?

 

[cargen]

Also another thing to ask, if I were to get AMG front sways (30mm), would I be able to pair that with the Stage 1 rear sways, or should I simply just get the full stage 2 sways?

Sorry about the off topic post but is the bcnr33 in your profile pic yours?

 

[jhodg5ck]

Stage II has never come to fruition. Perhaps one day but not right this moment.

All of my cars run the stock front 036 bar and a feind rear.
I don't think I would run much stiffer on the street...Track, sure but that's a different animal all together.

If you were to run an AMG front bar you'll Really want the feind rear....only stiffening the front would Not be to my liking.

Jono



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[gsxr]

30mm front AMG sway bar has been NLA for many years. RENNtech will sell you an even stiffer 32mm bar though... last I heard those were still available.

 

[Rouven036]

Anyone has still a rear bar and bushes/U-bolt left?

 

[jhodg5ck]

I need to check, I think I have 1 maybe 2 left.

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[Lynch]

Sorry about the off topic post but is the bcnr33 in your profile pic yours?

Not that one unfortunately. Came across lots of R34 but could never commit to it. The W463 is mine.

I need to check, I think I have 1 maybe 2 left.

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Please let me know, I am very interested as well, as long as it comes with all the necessary pieces to install it.

 

[Lynch]

Does anyone remember if there was any permanent mods (on the car) that were required to install these?

Something about one of the brackets having to be enlarged on the car?

Waiting on an invoice for these, and could potentially have them soon.

 

[8899]

Does anyone remember if there was any permanent mods (on the car) that were required to install these?

Something about one of the brackets having to be enlarged on the car?

Waiting on an invoice for these, and could potentially have them soon.

No permanent mods required for installation. When I had my Feind rear bar installed I looked into using rubber MB bushings and matching bracket because I preferred not to use the supplied poly bushing. Unfortunately the W210 E55 rear sway-bar bracket and bushing would not fit. Take a look at post #48 here:

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168&highlight=glen

 

[jnes]

Are these Stage 1 bars sold out? I know that I'm little late for this group buy..

 

[gerryvz]

Are these Stage 1 bars sold out? I know that I'm little late for this group buy..

A few months ago I think they had a few left, when I visited. You should check with Brandon at Feind on status.


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[Hollybrook]

Are these Stage 1 bars sold out? I know that I'm little late for this group buy..

I got one from Brandon a few weeks ago. He may still have some available.

 

[jnes]

I tried to contact, but no reply. He must be busy or my messages go to junkmail.

 

[modzona]

I tried to contact, but no reply. He must be busy or my messages go to junkmail.

Me too, i paid for two t-shirts that never showed up. Never got any response from him after i had paid.

 

[Lynch]

I'm narrowing in on a set of the sways, and was wondering a few things:

1) I studied Glen's install of the stage 1 sways many times now (http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168&p=90905&viewfull=1#post90905)

I noticed that for one of the procedures, he enlarges the bracket that attaches to the bar. What part exactly is this? Pardon my lack of experience/knowledge on these things, hope someone can educate me.

2) Earlier on in the thread, Dave (gsxr), Jono and a few others asked/explained that the W210 Wagon metal links are a suitable replacement for the OEM 500e plastic ones.

Could anyone elaborate a little for me as to which part is this exactly, and what sort of modifications will I need to do to make it fit?

I figured that if I'm installing these sways, I'd love to do it properly with the beefier/stronger metal W210 links, and just need a little help on figuring it out.

 

[8899]

I'm narrowing in on a set of the sways, and was wondering a few things:

1) I studied Glen's install of the stage 1 sways many times now (http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168&p=90905&viewfull=1#post90905)

I noticed that for one of the procedures, he enlarges the bracket that attaches to the bar. What part exactly is this? Pardon my lack of experience/knowledge on these things, hope someone can educate me.

2) Earlier on in the thread, Dave (gsxr), Jono and a few others asked/explained that the W210 Wagon metal links are a suitable replacement for the OEM 500e plastic ones.

Could anyone elaborate a little for me as to which part is this exactly, and what sort of modifications will I need to do to make it fit?

I figured that if I'm installing these sways, I'd love to do it properly with the beefier/stronger metal W210 links, and just need a little help on figuring it out.

I used the metal end links from the W124 wagon (124 320 04 89) when the Feind rear bar was installed. I'm not sure how much modification was required, but don't think it was very involved, just filing down the lower portion of the link so that it could fit.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Yup, that's it...a grinding wheel and a cup of water too keep things cool and its not hateful. Keep a stock one with to compare/match sizing.

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[Lynch]

Great, thanks for the reply, shouldn't be too difficult I hope.

Another question, I believe Glen did some work on the SLS bracket, is this necessary? I assume the SLS bracket is not the same as the metal links we discussed above.

Photo credits go to Glen and his build page:

I believe he enlarged the holes for the U-Bolt. Did you guys also have to do this? Also, if this is a permanent modification of the SLS bracket, then perhaps I should buy a new one just so I can have the original unmodified, is there a parts number for it?

Thanks! Really looking forward to installing these.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Trying to remember if we had to do as much, I Really don't think so..I'll try to glance up under the Brumos car tonight/see all that I can bracket wise.

Anyone that drives an 036 with this bar won't want to take it back to stock...that much i'm fairly certain!!:-D

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[Glen]

If you keep SLS, the bracket must be modified to fit the larger sway bar, no way around it.

 

[Lynch]

Thanks Glen, I do plan on keeping the SLS, and am trying to source the AMG one (no luck so far), thanks! I wonder if it's not too expensive to buy a second piece just in case, I'll find out.

Would you happen to have the PN for it?

 

[Glen]

Thanks Glen, I do plan on keeping the SLS, and am trying to source the AMG one (no luck so far), thanks! I wonder if it's not too expensive to buy a second piece just in case, I'll find out.

Would you happen to have the PN for it?

Sorry, no idea what the part number is. Otoh, while not 100% ideal, the modified bracket should still work with the original U-bolt and swaybar...in case you can't obtain a replacement.

 

[Lynch]

Just wanted to share that Dave found the P/N for the SLS bracket, and posted it in my thread asking about it:

p/n 124-328-03-27

Cheers

 

[sheward]

Thanks! I plan on fitting a bar and have the same concern as you.

drew

 

[classicamgUK]

Are these still available?

 

[gsxr]

we have the stage ones in stock and are shipping them now. Waiting to see how those do to see if there will be a stage II. I have a minimum run or 30 bars to get them made (for any price people actually want to buy them at).

Brandon has not posted on this thread in almost a year (last was April 2015). Anyone know if the Stage 2 setup is officially dead? I'm guessing it is, but would be nice to have some closure.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Brandon has not posted on this thread in almost a year (last was April 2015). Anyone know if the Stage 2 setup is officially dead? I'm guessing it is, but would be nice to have some closure.

St II is off the books for the time being.. Quite honestly I can't see wanting to run it except @ the track. The rear bar does So much...Esp when coupled with springs and a set of Sports...or ideally the PSS9 adjustable dampers off eBay!

We Might have a bar left. I'll check stock

J



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[jnes]

Jono, if you have more bars in stock I'm also intrested. Never got any response from Brandon..

 

[gerryvz]

I saw him about 4 months ago, in person at his shop. At that time, he said he had "some" bars available. My guess was <10. I picked one up at that time myself. If you are going to get one, you'd better move quickly. You can Google Feind Motorsports in Bryan, TX to get his contact information. I'd recommend contacting him via phone or email.

 

[Hollybrook]

I got one of the remaining bars in December and AFAIK, Brandon had more at that time.

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[M104-AMG]

or ideally the PSS9 adjustable dampers off eBay!

Jono - tell us more about the PSS9 and it's handling characteristics! I've always thought about a Koni 28-series or 86-series myself . . .

neil

 

[jhodg5ck]

Jono - tell us more about the PSS9 and it's handling characteristics! I've always thought about a Koni 28-series or 86-series myself . . .

neil

I run PSS9's on my e36/m3 track toy (shhhh...!) And I Love them. I like the way Koni's work when new but they seem to wear quicker then a Bilstein...and koni is Nuts with their refurb pricing!

I haven't put PSS9's on the 036 just yet but I have no doubts they'll be impressive. They might be hard to sneak by in the Lemons racing so the Brumos might get them first... But before that I've got an engine with a little extra umph I need to install:-D

Jono

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[500AMM]

Brandon has not posted on this thread in almost a year (last was April 2015). Anyone know if the Stage 2 setup is officially dead? I'm guessing it is, but would be nice to have some closure.

Dave, take a look at post #103

 

[gsxr]

Dave, take a look at post #103

Thanks, Arnt! I missed that. Odd that he isn't interested in doing anything further. There seemed to be decent demand.

 

[jnes]

Does anybody have direct email adress to Brandon at Feind motorsports? If you don't want to give it here in public, shoot me an pm. I have sent couple of mails to info@feindms.com but never got any response. Or is the whole company out of business, website hasn't been updated for a while, same as facebook and twitter.. :?

 

[Lynch]

Question about the W124 compatible W210 Rear sway bar wagon links.

I know that originally they are an upgrade (metal) to the composite ones that our E500E originally has, but I just found a thread on benzworld from google searching that they have now changed to composite as well.

Does anyone know of this change? I'm looking to get some of the metal links to upgrade my E500E rear sway bar links when installing my bars.

Would appreciate if anyone has the P/N for the W210 wagon RSB links.

 

[500AMM]

.
A 124 320 04 89

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw...9.TRS0&_nkw=Lemfoerder+124+320+04+89&_sacat=0