Small Ripple ahead of RH Taillight on some E500Es

[TimL]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This thread was cleaved off of a FOR SALE thread located here.

New Year's bump. I'll give it another few weeks here before posting it elsewhere.

What’s the story behind the dent/kink underneath the right taillight?

 

[gerryvz]

What’s the story behind the dent/kink underneath the right taillight?

That is not a dent or kink caused by any problem such as an accident or other externally caused damage. It's a rear quarter-panel deformity that is endemic (to varying degrees of visibility) on a lot of E500Es. It came from the factory that way. This one seems a little more pronounced than one typically sees -- I believe because of the paint color, and the lighting in that photo.

I have seen that same deformity in various degrees on MANY MANY E500Es, as they come from the factory, including my own. Mine isn't that obvious, but my paint is darker.

If you look closely on many cars out there, you will see this same type of deformity at the same point.

Let me see if I can show it on my car.

 

[TimL]

That is not a dent or kink caused by any problem such as an accident or other externally caused damage. It's a rear quarter-panel deformity that is endemic (to varying degrees of visibility) on a lot of E500Es. It came from the factory that way. This one seems a little more pronounced than one typically sees -- I believe because of the paint color, and the lighting in that photo.

I have seen that same deformity in various degrees on MANY MANY E500Es, as they come from the factory, including my own. Mine isn't that obvious, but my paint is darker.

If you look closely on many cars out there, you will see this same type of deformity at the same point.

Let me see if I can show it on my car.
View attachment 121917

View attachment 121919

Wow, thanks for that info! Did anyone ever find out about the reason for this? Given that these cars were built with such an elaborate, comparatively labor intensive production process and that MB insisted on doing the paint work and final quality inspection, it seems odd that these flaws made it through....

 

[gerryvz]

Generally, it's on the passenger side.

Here are a few other cars from BaT auctions where I've seen it:

 

[gerryvz]

Some cars have them pretty blatantly, others more subtly (only visible in certain light), and others ... not at all.

But hopefully you see that I'm not hallucinating with my comments about them being from the factory. Almost 20 years following these things does that to you.....

 

[gerryvz]

No response on this from the @gsxr?

 

[gsxr]

I don't recall seeing this on any of my cars, and looking through photos I don't see it... but I need to double check on the car to confirm.

I can't explain why some other cars seem to have the same wrinkle in the identical location. Is it enough to feel if you run your hand over it?

 

[gerryvz]

I don't recall seeing this on any of my cars, and looking through photos I don't see it... but I need to double check on the car to confirm.

I can't explain why some other cars seem to have the same wrinkle in the identical location. Is it enough to feel if you run your hand over it?

I have seen this for many (15+) years. Some of it is subtle on some cars, more blatant on others, and you don't see it on many. Yes, in some cases you can feel it by running your hand over it.

On my car it is on the "slighter" side. Only visible in certain light conditions. The first photo I posted sort of caught it; the second one really didn't. Of course this was in my dim garage between the car and a wall.

I have only seen this phenomenon on .036 models, and about 98% of the time ONLY on the passenger side. I went through all of the BaT past auction cars today, looking for photos. Out of all the auctions, I definitively found it on about 5-7 cars, so it was a small but significant fraction of the cars.

I'm know for a fact that various cars listed for sale here on the forum also have the same issue. I've never really mentioned it, because it is endemic to the cars - came from the factory like that. My car has never been in an accident, and it's had the slight ripple for the past 17.5 years I've owned it.

 

[maw1124]

I’m pretty sure I have it on mine... and others, like this dimple on the rear drivers side of the trunk... never knew where it came from but I’m pretty sure it’s always been there... but it doesn’t bother me... like @gerryvz says, I’ve seen more egregious errors on the showroom floor... now I’ll probably see a dent around my rear passenger tail light too... I just chalk it up to being a hand built car.

Cheers, Gents,

maw

 

[Kyiv]

Mine, assuming it's the same/similar issue is right under the rear tail light, on the driver's side

 

[gerryvz]

Mine, assuming it's the same/similar issue is right under the rear tail light, on the driver's side

 

[szvook]

That is bloody weird and based on its frequency, you would think it would have been caught by the QC department. I do not have any dent/kink by the tail lights on either side my car, or anywhere else for that matter. Do any E500’s show/have it?

 

[gerryvz]

Do any E500’s show/have it?

Yes, as per the photos I posted, it is endemic to both the 500E and the facelift E500.

 

[szvook]

Yes, as per the photos I posted, it is endemic to both the 500E and the facelift E500.

My bad, missed that one E500 photo.

 

[Kyiv]

will take one and post it

That is bloody weird and based on its frequency, you would think it would have been caught by the QC department. I do not have any dent/kink by the tail lights on either side my car, or anywhere else for that matter. Do any E500’s show/have it?

I'm not a fan of aftermarket and AMG/Lorinser/etc wheels other than EVOIIs on a W124, but god-damn yours look good. What are they?

 

[LWB250]

I'm wondering of the .034s had this, too? Gotta go look at mine in a little bit and will report back.

This is like the "Camry corner" issue.

 

[gerryvz]

My bad, missed that one E500 photo.

And my car also is an E500.

 

[szvook]

I'm not a fan of aftermarket and AMG/Lorinser/etc wheels other than EVOIIs on a W124, but god-damn yours look good. What are they?

Thank you. They are HRE’s, model RC103.

 

[gerryvz]

In my observation over the years, it's actually a very common thing. Most manifestations I have seen of it, are similar to the one on my car -- fairly subtle and not immediately apparent. You really have to have the car photographed in the correct light, and at an appropriate angle, to really see it. Even then, if it is like the one on my car, it's not that apparent.

Of the photos I posted above with it, they are some of the more "egregious" cases of the ripple-dent, and thus observable from more angles and in more types of light.

The next time you have your car outside or under a bright light, definitely check out both sides just ahead and below the taillights. I bet that quite a few more of you will find this subtle characteristic. It's not a big deal, IMHO, as it came from the factory like that. I originally saw mine a very very long time ago, but when I observed the identical thing on other cars, I knew that it was a characteristic of the hand-fitment and assembly of the cars. In my personal opinion, as said it evidence of the hand-build of these cars.

The reason that I think it is only native to the .036, is that the .036 rear quarter-panels are specific to only those cars with their widened lip over "pedestrian" W124 models. I don't EVER remember seeing this on a non-E500E.

 

[szvook]

And my car also is an E500.

When did you first see it on your car?

 

[Kyiv]

Thank you. They are HRE’s, model RC103.

only $5k per set? meh

What finish is yours?

 

[gerryvz]

When did you first see it on your car?

About as long as I've known this guy.

I have seen this for many (15+) years. Some of it is subtle on some cars, more blatant on others, and you don't see it on many. Yes, in some cases you can feel it by running your hand over it.

On my car it is on the "slighter" side. Only visible in certain light conditions. The first photo I posted sort of caught it; the second one really didn't. Of course this was in my dim garage between the car and a wall.

I'm know for a fact that various cars listed for sale here on the forum also have the same issue. I've never really mentioned it, because it is endemic to the cars - came from the factory like that. My car has never been in an accident, and it's had the slight ripple for the past 17.5 years I've owned it.

 

[szvook]

About as long as I've known this guy.

I need to slow down when reading posts, have a habit of skimming through posts when working.

 

[sheward]

In my opinion this is likely due to stress created during the welding and assembly process which pulled the quarter panel subtly over time after the car was exposed to temperature and use. The battery sheet metal may have played a part along with the added weight of the battery. I've experienced similar distortion when welding in my past. Due to the custom nature of the build this may not have been easily foreseeable. I do not believe MB would have let this pass initially through QC.

drew

 

[szvook]

only $5k per set? meh

What finish is yours?
View attachment 122018

Brushed and clear-coated. Although the brushed aluminum finish was free before (back when I got my first set of HRE’s, model 546), it’s now $300 extra per wheel, as it’s done by hand. So it’s $6.8K now...and then the tires.

 

[gerryvz]

In my opinion this is likely due to stress created during the welding and assembly process which pulled the quarter panel subtly over time after the car was exposed to temperature and use. The battery sheet metal may have played a part along with the added weight of the battery. I've experienced similar distortion when welding in my past. Due to the custom nature of the build this may not have been easily foreseeable. I do not believe MB would have let this pass initially through QC.

drew

It's a very good theory. It has never increased or become more noticeable while I've had my car, and I got it with 67K on it (now almost 143K). I always chalked it up to a fitment error where the quarter-panel was welded, and it wasn't finished correctly by the craftsmen.

But your theory makes sense, because I too cannot really believe that Porsche nor MB would have let something like this slide, particularly on a significant number of cars, and of a car at this price point at the time. It may be that the corner of the battery tray hits the inside of the quarter-panel at this exact point, poking it out slightly, or the corner of the battery thunks the inside corner of the battery tray if not held down correctly, and this makes the tray hit the quarter panel interior.

It's so un-noticeable on my car that I've never had anyone say anything, and I've rarely even seen it myself to think about it.

 

[gerryvz]

I think a lot of folks selling cars take photos so as not to show the ripple, or they are not in the type of light that shows it as much. And I'm sure quite often they don't even know about it. Tons of cars out there also don't even have it.

Here are a couple of photos of my car from September, 2003. This was the month after I got my car. It had less than 70K miles on it at the time. You can clearly see it in the second photo, but not so much in the first one.

 

[szvook]

I don’t think I could live with that dent/kink being there, especially if no other dent/kink was visible on the car. I got a few small rock chips on the hood from the past racetracks (that I wanted to fix last year, before covid put everything on hold) and I cringe each time I see the chips...the dent/kink would drive me nuts. Btw, can you feel the dent/kink by hand?

 

[gerryvz]

Btw, can you feel the dent/kink by hand?

Sorry, but I just HAVE to do this....

I have seen this for many (15+) years. Some of it is subtle on some cars, more blatant on others, and you don't see it on many. Yes, in some cases you can feel it by running your hand over it.

On my car it is on the "slighter" side. Only visible in certain light conditions.

 

[szvook]

Sorry, but I just HAVE to do this....

I quit...

 

[gerryvz]

I'll go out and check mine, but as I remember it from car washing and such, I have NOT been able to feel it by hand.

 

[szvook]

I’m still at a loss as to why some cars have it and others do not. Wonder if any E60’s have it as well. Imagine buying a car in perfect condition and finding the dent/kink on your own...

 

[gerryvz]

I just went out to the shop and "copped a feel" on my car's rear end. Yes, I can feel slightly the raised/bowed area with my fingertips.

Also, I checked the location of the imperfection. It is several inches above the top of the battery trapdoor, so there is NO WAY that the battery or tray could have any effect on it. This means that it is either an imperfection at the time it left the factory, or it is something that (as @sheward postulates) appears through use and temperature cycles.

I have to say, having seen my car with the 2003 photos and 2021 photos .... there is zero difference between the photos then and now. So mine has not worsened or changed at all. And I know for sure that it was there when I took delivery of the car at 67K miles. The car had seen pretty light and careful use up to the point I got it. It was a SoCal, and later a NorCal car, before I got it. I think it left the factory that way. That's just my opinion.

 

[Bogeyman]

OK, if I understand the mantra...
It went to Porsche for the bodywork
It went back to Benz for the paintwork
It went back to Porsche for the assembly
It went back to Benz for final inspection

And that flaw was missed every time? On a car that was as close to hand assembled as any since the 600?

???

 

[kwontumspeed]

My 036 is under cover.
I don't want to go out there an look for this.
I will never unsee it if it's there.
Make this thread go away.

 

[szvook]

I got another 036 “anomaly” I’ve been meaning to bring up for a while now, might as well do it now. This has to do with the front and rear wheels and how far they extend outward. What I have noticed is the passenger side wheel extends slightly further than the driver side wheel and it’s mostly noticeable on 500E’s vs. E500’s or E60’s or 6.5 Brabus. My car has this anomaly and I only noticed it after I mounted the lower offset and wider wheels and tires. Below are a few front wheels examples and with what looks like factory wheels.

 

[Kyiv]

I got it with 67K on it (now almost 143K)

Have you observed a loss of body rigidity over time? For example, are there creaks or rattles driving over imperfections or going over bumps there either weren't there, or were more mild?

 

[gerryvz]

Have you observed a loss of body rigidity over time? For example, are there creaks or rattles driving over imperfections or going over bumps there either weren't there, or were more mild?

Nyet.

 

[gerryvz]

ADMIN NOTE: This post was copied over from this FOR SALE thread as an additional, observed case of this ripple effect.


This car has a clear case of the slightly bowed-out rear fender directly ahead of the rear taillight on the passenger side. This is a condition of how the car left the factory - not accident damage. I had posted elsewhere on this condition earlier, but can't find the post. Some cars have it; others don't. This is one of the cars that does. See photo.

 

[500AMM]

In my opinion this is likely due to stress created during the welding and assembly process which pulled the quarter panel subtly over time after the car was exposed to temperature and use. The battery sheet metal may have played a part along with the added weight of the battery. Ive experienced similar distortion when welding in my past. Due to the custom nature of the build this may not have been easily foreseeable. I do not believe MB would have let this pass initially through QC.

drew

I concur, Drew!
This could be an ageing effect...or defect, due to residual stress locked up in the panels during assembly. Steels & metallic materials are pretty flexible and both heat and additional stress may affect the given shape of a part in a longer pespective, which can be called ageing. As already stated it is hard to believe that MB sold these high priced cars with that ripple present.
.