The $400 400E

[Beater400E]

New pads will be thicker than used by a good amount. Maybe try 4 bumps pads all around? Or 3 bump front and 4 bump rear? They are nice and cheap at the dealer.

I think read that 3 bump is as high as it goes in the rear. Does anyone know any different?

I just took the car out and pushed it a bit too hard around a corner and felt the rear damper on the outside of the turn bottom out. The spring rate went infinite and the rear end stepped out. So yeah, I definitely need more height in the rear for sure.

I figure I'll start with 3 bump pads in the rear and go from there. Basically I want to keep it as low as possible without slamming the stops all the time.

 

[gsxr]

Yup, rears are 3-pt max, fronts 4pt max.

Wild guessing, you might get the rear up to about 13.0" with thicker pads.

What part number OE rear spring did you remove? 124-324-21-04 or 124-324-12-04 ? Since you measured over 15" in the rear, I'm guessing it might have been #21 which is longer/taller and also thicker wire diameter vs the #12.

 

[Beater400E]

What part number OE rear spring did you remove? 124-324-21-04 or 124-324-12-04 ? Since you measured over 15" in the rear, I'm guessing it might have been #21 which is longer/taller and also thicker wire diameter vs the #12.

Is dirty rust a valid part number?

 

[gsxr]

The number is stamped near the end of the bottom coil. Unless the rust is severe, it is often legible after cleaning with a wire brush.

Alternately, measuring the wire diameter / free length / number of coils will help determine which it is.

 

[Beater400E]

Pretty sure I see a really faint "21" there.

 

[Beater400E]

I ordered a pair of 3 bump rear spring pads, and a set of spherical bearings for the rear lower control arms. Mine had badly torn boots.

 

[gerryvz]

I’m not usually a ‘low’ bro, but i think the drop looks pretty fantastic!

But are you a 'low' brow?

 

[Beater400E]

I also went ahead and ordered the blingy Garagistic brake hoses. I never heard back from Deerfield. I wish him the best, but I've been trying to order for 5 days and still haven't been able to.

 

[gsxr]

Pretty sure I see a really faint "21" there.

Yep, looks like 21's. The EPC only shows the 12's as valid but my E420 and your 400E both had the 21's, which is weird because the ride height is SO much taller with them. I don't know why MB would use both interchangeably during production. THe 21's are about 1/4" taller and 0.2mm thicker wire diameter.

 

[Beater400E]

Yep, looks like 21's. The EPC only shows the 12's as valid but my E420 and your 400E both had the 21's, which is weird because the ride height is SO much taller with them. I don't know why MB would use both interchangeably during production. THe 21's are about 1/4" taller and 0.2mm thicker wire diameter.

That's interesting. If the 3 bump rear pads don't get the rear where I need it I guess I'll start cutting chunks off these stockers until I end up at the right height.

 

[Beater400E]

I'm fairly sure the car is sitting on or very near the stops. I ordered a set of front 4 bump coil pads as well. I guess we'll see how we look with those installed.

 

[a777fan]

But are you a 'low' brow?

I didnt think so… but this drop is forcing me to reconsider!

 

[Beater400E]

I suspect that even with new spring pads I probably won't be happy with the H&R springs. I'm willing to give it a shot but I think the spring rate will be too low regardless. What I'd really like is a slightly stiffer spring than stock. Not super concerned with the height since even a stock length spring can just be cut to get the height right.

I've reviewed Dave's documentation on springs but the vast majority of springs in the list are NLA.

Does anyone know if anything is actually available with a stiffer spring rate these days? OE or aftermarket, don't care. What would stock E500E springs do in a 400E? Is anyone actually making E60 replicas at this point? I'm not trying to go super stiff but I figure I'll want to be somewhere between 13.5 and 14 inches all around, and with the suspension stops sitting around 13, that doesn't give me a ton of bump travel before bottoming out. If I'm stuck with just cutting my stock springs I'll probably try to land closer to 14 inches, but if I can find something a little stiffer I'll aim for 13.5. I can definitely build a new lower radiator support to gain back some critical clearance up front.

One more ridiculous thought. What about shortening the strut stop buffers? I'm already running the E500E in the front and I believe the Bilstein dampers have the stop built in in the rear right? In theory I would think I could buy myself a bit more room in the front by cutting the stops down a bit or even making custom ones. In the Jeep world it's pretty common to do something like machine a hockey puck to fit where you need a custom bump pad. The rear would be a bit more challenging. I think in theory I could raise the upper shock mount. I know that sounds insane. It would require basically cutting out the stock mount and welding in a new mount higher up in the unibody. If that was all it would take I might consider it, but I wouldn't be surprised if things start binding or colliding if the suspension goes beyond its factory limits by much. I do wonder how the guys with the ridiculous bagged suspensions deal with this.

 

[TimL]

The E60 springs are the stiffest MB springs for this W124:

1. Front: 10kgf/mm
2. Rear: 9kgf/mm

They are NLA. I had a set replicated by Intrax in the Netherlands (based on a E60 NOS front spring and a NOS rear spring I sent them). Contact Intrax, as they have all the data. Won’t be cheap though.

 

[gsxr]

What I'd really like is a slightly stiffer spring than stock. ... I've reviewed Dave's documentation on springs but the vast majority of springs in the list are NLA.

Does anyone know if anything is actually available with a stiffer spring rate these days? OE or aftermarket, don't care. What would stock E500E springs do in a 400E?

The 500E front springs may work nicely, as they are probably the second-stiffest available next to the E60 springs... and, I think the 500E may still be available new. You might need to cut them slightly, it will take some trial & error. If NLA, try the Cabrio Sportline front springs instead, which also may be available.

For the rear, see if you can still get the Sportline rears, 124-324-28-04... MBCC says "available" despite RevParts showing Discontinued, so you'll need to call a dealer and have a live parts person check worldwide inventory in Paragon. The taller version (124-324-36-04) may be NLA but you could double check. Next available alternative may be the Cabrio rears (124-324-34-04) but I don't have specs on those, so they'd be a bit of a gamble. Remember the 500E rear springs are designed for SLS and are way too short for non-SLS use.

Is anyone actually making E60 replicas at this point?

See Tim's post, but these ain't cheap, and the 034 weighs ~200 lbs less so you would likely have to cut new, expensive, replica E60 springs. And, the E60 rear springs are designed for SLS and won't work for a non-SLS application like the 034.

I'm not trying to go super stiff but I figure I'll want to be somewhere between 13.5 and 14 inches all around,

I think your target height is perfect. I like right around 14.0" all around for street use. Pretty sure I already posted photos of our E420 set to a bit over 14.0 with the same CLK forged wheels. You need fabulously good roads where you live to daily drive at 13.0 or less. That ain't Idaho.

and with the suspension stops sitting around 13, that doesn't give me a ton of bump travel before bottoming out. If I'm stuck with just cutting my stock springs I'll probably try to land closer to 14 inches, but if I can find something a little stiffer I'll aim for 13.5. I can definitely build a new lower radiator support to gain back some critical clearance up front.

As an aside, I've found that with new struts, the front ride height is higher vs old/worn struts. Over time (like, 5+ years) the front will gradually sag by a good 1/4", maybe as much as 1/2". I tend to set up the front 1/8-1/4" above my target, knowing it will gradually drop. Oddly, the rear does not experience the same phenomenon. Dial the rear in to your final/target height from day 1.

One more ridiculous thought. What about shortening the strut stop buffers? I'm already running the E500E in the front and I believe the Bilstein dampers have the stop built in in the rear right?

If you are using the 036 front stop buffer, I wouldn't cut that down. There should be plenty of travel at 13.5"+ front ride height with 036 strut stop buffers. With your target height, the rear should not be an issue either.

In theory I would think I could buy myself a bit more room in the front by cutting the stops down a bit or even making custom ones. In the Jeep world it's pretty common to do something like machine a hockey puck to fit where you need a custom bump pad. The rear would be a bit more challenging. I think in theory I could raise the upper shock mount. I know that sounds insane. It would require basically cutting out the stock mount and welding in a new mount higher up in the unibody. If that was all it would take I might consider it, but I wouldn't be surprised if things start binding or colliding if the suspension goes beyond its factory limits by much. I do wonder how the guys with the ridiculous bagged suspensions deal with this.

Don't mess with cutting/welding the mounts front or rear. Not worth it, and not needed. The baggers may remove the rear dampers entirely, but remember their goal isn't performance or handling, and is mostly irrelevant. At 13.5-14.0 ride height, damper travel should not be an issue.

 

[Beater400E]

I was able to find both the 124-324-28-04 E420 Sportline rears and the 124-321-35-04 500E fronts through Mercedes of Warwick on eBay. There's always a chance that they don't actually have them in stock, but I'd think odds are decent they really do have them.

I'm hesitant to pull the trigger just based on price though. We're looking at $530 plus tax for the set. I have no doubt that's a reasonable price for top quality parts, but I can't help but hesitate when I have a perfectly good stock set of springs here just begging to be cut up.

I think that's where I'm going to start. I think I'll try cutting the stock springs to try to get to about 14 inches all around, and see how I like it. It's possible that the stock spring rate, combined with the SL500 front sway bar and E55 rear might give me the ride and handling I really want. If that doesn't work out I can just purge some more cash for the new OE parts then.

 

[gsxr]

You can easily achieve your desired ride height cutting the (free!) stock springs. Be careful cutting, if you cut too much, well.... you know. I generally recommend max 1/4 coil at a time. I think your #21 stupid-tall rears could get 1/2 coil for the first cut, followed by 1/4-coil trims as needed.

Ideally you'd get near the target height with 1-pt pads, as the thick pads compress over time. After each change you need to drive the car a couple miles to settle everything. Assuming you are removing the rear LCA inner pivot bolt to swap springs, I don't fully tighten that nut until I get the height finalized, since it's a hassle to load the rear suspension to the target height while sliding under the car to tighten the nut. I'm also assuming you have a spring compressor to easily R&R the fronts.

Have you tried installing the R129 swaybar yet? Very few people seem to use this bar, I forget what the installation hassles are, it's shaped differently vs W124.

 

[Beater400E]

You can easily achieve your desired ride height cutting the (free!) stock springs. Be careful cutting, if you cut too much, well.... you know. I generally recommend max 1/4 coil at a time. I think your #21 stupid-tall rears could get 1/2 coil for the first cut, followed by 1/4-coil trims as needed.

Yup. That's pretty much the plan. In theory I should be able to figure out how much to cut mathematically. Just out of curiosity I'll try to calculate it before I start, but then I'll sneak up on it incrementally to discover whether my math worked or not.

Ideally you'd get near the target height with 1-pt pads, as the thick pads compress over time. After each change you need to drive the car a couple miles to settle everything. Assuming you are removing the rear LCA inner pivot bolt to swap springs, I don't fully tighten that nut until I get the height finalized, since it's a hassle to load the rear suspension to the target height while sliding under the car to tighten the nut. I'm also assuming you have a spring compressor to easily R&R the fronts.

Yeah, I figure I'll set it up with the 1 pt I already have for the rear and 2 pt I have for the front. Added bonus, they're already 30 years old and pre-compressed.

When I swapped the springs last week I used the compressor front and rear, and unbolted the outer LCA bolt to drop it out. Are you saying unbolting the inner LCA bolt will allow me to safely remove the spring without the compressor? The benefit with unbolting the outer is that the spherical bearing doesn't care if the bolt is tight or not. But I'm new to this job on this car, so I'm open to suggestions for better methods.

Have you tried installing the R129 swaybar yet? Very few people seem to use this bar, I forget what the installation hassles are, it's shaped differently vs W124.

I have not tried installing it yet. From what I've read the frame side mount needs to move back something like 50mm to align everything properly. I'm waiting on new OE bushings to match that bar before I attempt to fit it. I'm sure with my luck I'll end up discovering some fatal flaw with the whole plan and I'll have to scrap that idea, but the plan for now is to just bolt the bar to the control arms and then discover where exactly the frame mounts need to live and fabricate accordingly.

 

[gsxr]

When I swapped the springs last week I used the compressor front and rear, and unbolted the outer LCA bolt to drop it out. Are you saying unbolting the inner LCA bolt will allow me to safely remove the spring without the compressor?

Up front you don't need to mess with the LCA at all, just compress / remove / install.

In the rear, the STOCK springs are a PITA to remove because they are long and under significant tension with the LCA fully extended. You can remove the inner pivot bolt and lower with a hydraulic jack on the floor, or on a lift use an under-lift threaded stand to raise/lower the LCA. With lowering springs (either H&R or Sportline), the rear springs are short enough that they are under surprisingly little tension with the LCA extended. You still need a jack of some sort for the light tension remaining, to remove either bolt, but it's possible to safely R&R rear springs without the compressor IF they are aftermarket/Sportline. Always use a compressor for long/stock rear springs, for safety.

The benefit with unbolting the outer is that the spherical bearing doesn't care if the bolt is tight or not. But I'm new to this job on this car, so I'm open to suggestions for better methods.

That is a good point. The down side is, I've found it's very easy to damage the boot of the spherical bearing when trying to get the LCA+bearing aligned. I've damaged more than one new joint (well, boot) after installing, sigh. The inner pivot bolt is "safer" but then you have the hassle to only tighten at normal ride height.

 

[Beater400E]

Up front you don't need to mess with the LCA at all, just compress / remove / install.

Right. I should have been more clear. I only unbolted the LCA on the rear.

That is a good point. The down side is, I've found it's very easy to damage the boot of the spherical bearing when trying to get the LCA+bearing aligned. I've damaged more than one new joint (well, boot) after installing, sigh. The inner pivot bolt is "safer" but then you have the hassle to only tighten at normal ride height.

Yeah, that's probably the smarter plan. My strategy for dealing with that final tightening of suspension components is to set the car on a set of cinder blocks with lumber on top. That way the car is like 10 inches off the ground, but still sitting on its own weight. It's a pain to do, but the best method I've figured out at home.

 

[Beater400E]

Looks like my lower radiator support has already been carefully massaged by parking blocks and previous owners.

 

[gsxr]

Yeah, that's probably the smarter plan. My strategy for dealing with that final tightening of suspension components is to set the car on a set of cinder blocks with lumber on top. That way the car is like 10 inches off the ground, but still sitting on its own weight. It's a pain to do, but the best method I've figured out at home.

That's what I do... lower the car off the lift so the rear tires are on 8-10 inches of large wood blocks, then add ballast in the tunk until the rear ride height is "normal" (in your case, ~14.0") then slide under and tighten the bolt. I use an impact wench first, then lift it back up and do the final tightening with a torque wench.

 

[gsxr]

Looks like my lower radiator support has already been carefully massaged by parking blocks and previous owners.

Oooof. Yep... that's what happens, and many owners are clueless about the damage. This tubular support is, of course, NLA so you can't even buy a new one and weld it in the proper position. The 036 brace is soooo much better, it's a shame MB didn't at least use that on the 034, or phase it into production when they designed it for the 036 in 1990.

 

[Beater400E]

Oooof. Yep... that's what happens, and many owners are clueless about the damage. This tubular support is, of course, NLA so you can't even buy a new one and weld it in the proper position. The 036 brace is soooo much better, it's a shame MB didn't at least use that on the 034, or phase it into production when they designed it for the 036 in 1990.

I'm about to commit a war crime to deal with it.

 

[Beater400E]

Elegant it ain't, but it's stronger and lower profile than the factory setup.

 

[Beater400E]

A little semiflat black rattle can and we'll call it good. It fully hides above the lower edge of the bumper cover, so the easily-offended don't have to see it.

 

[Beater400E]

I heard back from JB at Deerfield Precision. I let him know that I had already purchased hoses elsewhere. I asked what the best method to contact him for purchases was. He said his preferred email is:

support@deerfieldprecision.com

He said he can also be reached at wrxtra@gmail.com, but that support@deerfieldprecision.com is his preference. I asked if there was a phone number people can call, since the number listed on his site is not in service. Still waiting for a response on that.

 

[Beater400E]

Working on more suspension updates. I'm preparing to install the E55 rear sway bar, and just noticed that the 210-326-04-81 bushings I have don't fit the standard W124 rear sway bar 123-326-09-26 bushing brackets. The E55 brackets have a narrower hole spacing, and won't bolt into the W124 chassis.

Does anyone know which bushing/bracket combo works for a 20mm rear bar?

I'm not sure whether I'll try to modify the tank outlet to clear the bar, or try to come up with a chassis side mount that shifts the bar a bit forward to create the needed clearance without getting into the upper control arm brackets. If I have to create new brackets from scratch I can, but I'd prefer to start with off-the-shelf parts if they exist.

 

[gsxr]

Normally I'd use an 18mm rear bushing (for 500E bar) with stock bracket on a 20mm bar. It should squish into place. I wish there was a way to make the aluminum E55 brackets work, they're sweet.

Be careful with the tank outlet, tanks are NLA... but you can still get them from (some) junkyards. Sadly, Pick-n-Pull yards normally destroy tanks by puncturing them. Jalopy Jungle does not. Tanks rarely need replacement unless they partly collapse due to venting issues... spend the $25 for a new tank vent valve, it's cheap insurance.

 

[Beater400E]

I'm going to see what I can do with this big chunk of billet aluminum.

 

[Beater400E]

@gsxr do you happen to know the part number for the E55 rear sway bar aluminum brackets?

 

[gsxr]

@gsxr do you happen to know the part number for the E55 rear sway bar aluminum brackets?

My notes show 210-326-00-26 as the late / aluminum bracket, and it's NLA. This was used on AMG 210's and a few other 210 chassis, but that's it.

Looks like there was an early / steel bracket 202-326-02-26 which was used on a ton of models including most 202's.

 

[Beater400E]

My E55 rear bar came with one bracket. If I had a pair or could easily find a second one I'd probably try to use them. At this point I think I'll use the one as a starting point for a new pair.

 

[Beater400E]

 

[Rich.Benzer]

What can I say. I'm a sucker for a bad idea. $500 for a clapped out S500. If this all goes terribly wrong I blame Dave.

Beater I'm running right with you -- $400E500 that had been sitting for months, I got it running, spliced a coupla wires the rats ate to get the airmatic pumped up, runs well, interior nice, paint rough. Will be something fun to practice a driveway paint job on. And a coupla weeks ago a dead 07E350 that would crank but not start, we got the software sorted with a new ECU but now the starter crapped out so it's not even cranking... I traded a pretty good 99E320 I bought for $600 and fixed the transmission conductor plate and put maybe another $300 into it and drove it for 2-3yr -- and the E350 seller gave me $500 in the swap! So I figure that one is a $400 car too! Getting the starter on it this week and see if that gets it sorted. That will be a quick flip.

 

[Beater400E]

Billet bushing caps complete. Next I'll make up a set of adapter plates that will shift the location of the bushings forward and inboard a bit.

 

[Beater400E]

Had to shave the billet blocks down a bit for clearance, and then whipped up some offset brackets. It's a real pain to install, but it fits great.

 

[kegmankipp]

Had to shave the billet blocks down a bit for clearance, and then whipped up some offset brackets. It's a real pain to install, but it fits great.
View attachment 177430

You need to change your handle to

“Unbeaten400e” ?

 

[Beater400E]

I don't know why I'm even bothering to replace this. It's mint.

 

[gsxr]

I don't know why I'm even bothering to replace this. It's mint.

That's what they look like on pretty much every 124 that doesn't have recent-ish joints...

 

[Beater400E]

I finally finished this last round of suspension work. I swapped in the E55 rear sway bar. I'm using those custom mounts to position the frame side about a half inch forward and maybe 3/8 inboard of the stock mount location. This gave adequate clearance on the fuel outlet. I used w124 wagon end links. I milled 0.160" off each side of the lower bushing to get the width correct.

I installed new rear lower control arm outer bushings. Had to make a press plate of the right ID/OD and depth to be able to press the outer shell of the bushings correctly.

Installed the Garagistic brake hoses all the way around. I'm fairly certain they are the same as ECS Tuning's red brake hoses. I don't see this application listed by ECS, but the hoses and ends all look identical. The build quality and fit seem great.

I also installed the 92 500SL front sway bar. I hadn't realized that the R129 front bar uses a smaller ID bushing in the control arm end, so I don't have the correct bushings yet. I installed regular 400E bushings with some gasket material inserted inside to take up the space. It won't last like that, but it was enough to get everything together and take the car for a test drive. New 129 bushings are on the way. Installing the 129 bar was quite easy. I just bent the stock 400E frame side brackets forward about an inch and everything just bolts in.

I installed 3 bump spring pads on the H&R springs in the rear, and 4 bump pads on the H&R springs on the front.

The ride height in the front came up from 12-3/4 to 13 inches. The front came up from 13 to roughly 13-1/2. It's actually 13-3/8 on the right side and 13-5/8 on the left for some reason. I'm guessing they'll both settle to 13-1/4 or so. I'm definitely not happy with it. The rear needs to come up at least another half inch, and the front probably needs at least another 1/4 inch. I expect I'll probably go back to the stock springs and just cut until I get the height right.

The car seems a fair bit more tail happy now than before. The fact that the front outer bushings are loose is probably a factor there. As soon as I can get the correct bushings in there we'll see how it behaves.

The car has also developed a new issue. The ABS feels like it's stepping in at the very end of a moderate stop. I don't believe the wheels are locking up, but even without a max effort stop, I can feel the pedal pulsing during the last couple feet of a stop. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing that?

 

[gsxr]

The car has also developed a new issue. The ABS feels like it's stepping in at the very end of a moderate stop. I don't believe the wheels are locking up, but even without a max effort stop, I can feel the pedal pulsing during the last couple feet of a stop. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing that?

Most likely a wheel speed sensor. Remove / check / clean the front sensors and senso-rings on the hub. Also see if there are any fault codes on the ABS module.

 

[Beater400E]

That was my guess as well. I'll have a look.

 

[Alphasud40]

Broken wires in the ABS sensor pigtail will also cause low speed activation. Especially when the suspension is under compression. Unplug your sensor at the bulkhead and measure resistance of the sensor while reaching down and flexing the cable. Look for dropouts.

 

[Beater400E]

Broken wires in the ABS sensor pigtail will also cause low speed activation. Especially when the suspension is under compression. Unplug your sensor at the bulkhead and measure resistance of the sensor while reaching down and flexing the cable. Look for dropouts.

I had the rear sensor out when I dropped the rear subframe to swap the sway bar. I didn't mess with the front sensors other than the fact that they are in close proximity to the brake hoses I just replaced. I'm guessing I somehow messed up the rear sensor.

 

[Beater400E]

I just went and scanned codes. No ABS codes, although I'd imagine it's plausible that a bad sensor might not cause a code.

I did have pin 17 code 8 and pin 19 code 26 though. Both are transmission related. I've seen the 17-8 code before. That's the overload switch. The 19-26 code is new though. "Upshift delay switchover valve, open/short circuit"

I'll have to do some research to figure out what might be happening there.

 

[gsxr]

DM code "Upshift delay switchover valve, open/short circuit" is misleading. It's complaining about the cold upshift delay not working, not specifically an electrical issue with the vacuum switchover solenoid. Do you have this disconnected or bypassed?

 

[Beater400E]

I have not disconnected or bypassed the switchover solenoid as far as I know. I'm not totally sure which one that actually is, but if it's the one I think it appears to be in place.

I yanked the rear seat and tested continuity on the rear speed sensor. I have no continuity. I have another one on the shelf, and it has solid continuity. I assume that means I should be swapping this other one in.

 

[gsxr]

I have not disconnected or bypassed the switchover solenoid as far as I know. I'm not totally sure which one that actually is, but if it's the one I think it appears to be in place.

If the vacuum circuit is bad (disconnected or leaking) that will also cause the cold upshift delay to not work, and trigger the fault code occasionally. It's not uncommon for the vacuum chamber of the Bowden cable to have failed. You can test with a Mityvac. The fault code makes you think it's an electrical fault, which is misleading.

I yanked the rear seat and tested continuity on the rear speed sensor. I have no continuity. I have another one on the shelf, and it has solid continuity. I assume that means I should be swapping this other one in.

Good you had a spare to compare against... does sound like something failed there. I'm curious if the wire has any visible damage when you remove the old one.

 

[Beater400E]

Good you had a spare to compare against... does sound like something failed there. I'm curious if the wire has any visible damage when you remove the old one.

Well this is strange. There was no visible damage to the sensor. I swapped the other sensor in and now I have an ABS light. No light before. Any chance this sensor is incompatible? It came from the 92 300CE that donated the 3.06 diff.