The $400 400E

[gsxr]

Pin 7 code 3 is indicating internal failure ETA components. Time for an ETA repair/rebuild. Pin 19 code 6 is just regurgitating the same information to trigger the CEL.

Pin 17 code 8 is strange with a new OL switch... double check the wiring / solder joints, but I'm not sure what's going on there.

 

[Beater400E]

Pin 7 code 3 is indicating internal failure ETA components. Time for an ETA repair/rebuild. Pin 19 code 6 is just regurgitating the same information to trigger the CEL.

No further diagnosis needed on that ETA code? Just get the ETA rebuilt?

Is Victor with Restoreyourmercedes.com the best option at this point? Any idea what he charges for the rebuild?

 

[gsxr]

No further diagnosis needed on that ETA code? Just get the ETA rebuilt?

You can clear codes & recheck, but if the same code keeps recurring with the same high idle, it's pretty likely to be the ETA. However, if you have a spare T/LLR module you can throw that in for grins.

Is Victor with Restoreyourmercedes.com the best option at this point? Any idea what he charges for the rebuild?

He's the only one I know of currently, unless you want to dive into the ETA yourself and see what's inside. I don't know what he charges, or if he can send out an exchange unit so your car isn't down for a week. If you contact him, please let us know what he says.

 

[Beater400E]

if you have a spare T/LLR module you can throw that in for grins.

Any idea if the E-gas out of the S500 will work for testing?

He's the only one I know of currently, unless you want to dive into the ETA yourself and see what's inside. I don't know what he charges, or if he can send out an exchange unit so your car isn't down for a week. If you contact him, please let us know what he says.

I'm certainly willing to open it up and have a look. Not sure what I'm looking for really though. Not a problem to have the car down for a week or more. If I do talk to him I'll report back.

 

[gsxr]

Any idea if the E-gas out of the S500 will work for testing?

It absolutely will NOT work. The E-GAS and T/LLR modules are completely incompatible. You could use a T/LLR module from an early S420 without ASR though. If you don't yet have a spare of each module, start looking for one of each...

I'm certainly willing to open it up and have a look. Not sure what I'm looking for really though. Not a problem to have the car down for a week or more. If I do talk to him I'll report back.

Sounds good!

 

[Beater400E]

I cleared the codes and went and put about 50 miles of mixed city/highway driving on it. The idle issue never returned. The downshift hesitation and the OL switch code did return though.

I did pull and reseat the T/LLR module yesterday as I was checking things out. I wonder if maybe that cleared it. Probably wishful thinking. I'm guessing it's just an intermittent failure of the ETA.

Question on the ETA. I don't recall it being mentioned that the ETA would need to be swapped from the 4.2 to the 5.0 when I do that swap, but I do need to keep the original 4.2 ETA when I do the 5.0 swap, right? Just making sure I'm not wasting time/money fixing this one if I won't be keeping it.

Since the only code I have at this point is the OL switch I guess I'll have a look at that and see what I can figure out.

 

[Beater400E]

I pulled the OL switch and bench tested it. It tests good. I visually inspected the wires and everything looks good. No continuity between the two wires. Good continuity to ground on one wire, and good continuity on connector 2 socket 2 on the EZL wiring.

There are 3 possibilities I can think if at this point. Either I had a loose/dirty connection at one or the other end of that wire, or the EZL is acting up, or there isn't adequate pressure getting to the switch from the trans. The transmission seems to be acting fine, aside from its role in this issue, so I'm kind of discounting that for now. I've cleaned the terminals on both ends of the wiring. I'll clear the code and go drive it again. If the issue returns I'll try swapping the EZL. I do have a spare 4.2 EZL.

 

[Beater400E]

The first few times I stood on it on the highway it downshifted and took off just fine. No problems. Once I had a wide open stretch I stood on it again and let it pull up to about 100. Right at 100 it upshifted to 4th (I think it was 4th anyway) and it started to surge again. From that point on, the issue was back. It's weird. It's almost like it detects something it doesn't like, and then it goes into a failsafe mode. Maybe that's how it's designed. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Anywho, it's strange that the car didn't do this with the used switch I had installed, and in fact didn't do this with the brand new switch until a few pulls after I did the diff swap. I think I'll try my other 4.2 EZL and see if that makes a difference. If not maybe I'll go back to the used switch I'd been running and see if that does anything.

 

[ccrelan]

Is Don Roden still doing rebuilds? FYI - Electronic Throttle Actuator (ETA) Rebuild | M119 Engine

 

[Beater400E]

Is Don Roden still doing rebuilds? FYI - Electronic Throttle Actuator (ETA) Rebuild | M119 Engine

Word is he retired.

 

[gsxr]

Question on the ETA. I don't recall it being mentioned that the ETA would need to be swapped from the 4.2 to the 5.0 when I do that swap, but I do need to keep the original 4.2 ETA when I do the 5.0 swap, right? Just making sure I'm not wasting time/money fixing this one if I won't be keeping it.

The ETA needs to match the car, not the engine. Since your car is non-ASR and pre-facelift, it needs the Green-label non-ASR ETA with the large/pancake pre-facelift connector.

You cannot use an ASR (White-label) ETA on a car without ASR. They function differently... open both to WOT via the lever and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Beater400E]

The ETA needs to match the car, not the engine. Since your car is non-ASR and pre-facelift, it needs the Green-label non-ASR ETA with the large/pancake pre-facelift connector.

You cannot use an ASR (White-label) ETA on a car without ASR. They function differently... open both to WOT via the lever and you'll see what I mean.

That's what I thought. Thanks for confirming.

 

[Beater400E]

I swapped in my other EZL. The symptoms took longer to show up, but show up they did. Weirdly, when I got I back I scanned and there are no codes.

 

[a777fan]

If you’re running an eco-junk eta, i’d just send it to victor and get it rebuilt. You’re going to have a heck of a time troubleshooting with that still part of the equation.

 

[Beater400E]

If you’re running an eco-junk eta, i’d just send it to victor and get it rebuilt. You’re going to have a heck of a time troubleshooting with that still part of the equation.

It's a 92. From everything I've read, including Victor's info, the wiring in the 92 ETA was not that biodegradable junk. Granted, there can still be problems, but the symptoms I'm dealing with right now don't appear to have anything to do with the ETA, so I'm mostly just focused on those symptoms until any ETA related symptoms or codes return.

 

[a777fan]

Aren't you dealing with an unstable idle?

 

[Beater400E]

It did that once, but then I reseated the T/LLR module and cleared the code and that went away. It has not returned. No guarantee it won't come back, but for now the only symptom I'm having is the bog on WOT downshifts and surging at WOT 3-4 shift. It seemed to be related to the transmission overload switch, but once I swapped the EZL I'm no longer getting the code for the overload switch. Still having that WOT bogging/surging issue though. I imagine I'll end up needing to rebuild the ETA at some point, but I'm still trying to diagnose things a little better if possible.

 

[Beater400E]

Trying to figure out what to do next. With no codes I'm at a bit of a loss. It's strange to me that the hesitation immediately after a WOT downshift would come with a code in my original 92 EZL, but not in the 95 EZL I installed. My best guess at this point is that it still has something to do with the trans overload switch. I have not yet tried reinstalling the used OL switch to see if that makes a difference. It's also possible that although I tested the OL switch wires, there could still be an intermittent fault, like a bad solder joint in the connector or something.

Obviously I can't rule out other possible causes, but anything else at this point would just be a shot in the dark. I thought about swapping my LH module just to see if somehow that was a factor. Does anyone know if I can run my S500 LH module safely for testing? I believe the answer is yes, but I'd like some confirmation on that. My original LH module has new capacitors and I really doubt there's anything wrong with it, but it's an easy test.

I'm also considering setting up a fuel pressure test gauge while driving so I can see if my hesitation has anything to do with fuel pressure. Again, I doubt it, but I'm running low on ideas.

Anything else I should check?

 

[gsxr]

Yes, you can use the S500 LH module for testing, but you may need to also remove relay K29/1 to prevent really weird shift behavior (IIIRC, it will hold 1st way to long, then skip 2nd and shift to 3rd). The 5L modules lack the output signal for K29/1 so it keeps the kickdown solenoid engaged when it shouldn't be.

I am also low on ideas here. What part numbers are your EZL's, btw? The 4.2L EZL's have specific year/chassis break points (see below). I believe the change as of 1993 is due to higher compression (11:1, vs 1992's 10:1), then possibly the change to open-deck blocks... but the block change was based on engine number, not chassis, which is really confusing.

 

[Beater400E]

The one that was in the car when I got it is
013-545-63-32. The one I just swapped in is 015-545-60-32.

I wonder how that later EZL might affect things. I would guess that if the 92 has higher compression that the later EZL might have a bit more total timing built in, which could cause the knock sensor to interfere more.

Could these symptoms be knock sensor related? It's super intrusive. I wouldn't expect the knock sensor to be quite so aggressive in pulling back timing. When I got the car, the knock sensor leads were all kinds of cracked and oily. I cleaned them up and taped them back together, but I still wish they were in better shape.

 

[gsxr]

The 1992 4.2L engines have 10:1 compression ratio.
1993-95 bumped up to 11:1 ratio with a plethora of other changes, which improved fuel economy probably around 5-10%.

It would be tough to determine if the knock sensors are involved, without an SDS to view live data at full throttle. You can view how much timing retard there is on each cylinder. Normal is near zero at WOT through the rev range.

I'd guess the later engine/EZL would have less advance though, vs the 1992. I also don't know if the late EZL is only happy with open-deck blocks for some reason...

 

[Beater400E]

Ah, ok. I had it backwards. Pretty unlikely that the compression ratio is causing any issues with that EZL. I'd assume I'm still better off running the earlier EZL though.

Im beginning to wonder if it's worth trying to chase perfection on the 4.2 if I'm just going to swap in the 5 liter. Since many of these components will get swapped when the motor is swapped, I might be better off just swapping the motor and then troubleshooting whatever issues exist at that point.

I'd been hoping to get everything ironed out with the 4.2 first just so I'd have fewer variables to consider if there are problems after the swap, but it might just be a waste of time.

 

[Beater400E]

I decided to go ahead and start on my suspension upgrades while I ponder what to do about drivability. Got the car back up on the lift and noticed a black smudge all the way around the inner lip on my left front wheel. On closer inspection I can see the brake hose has been rubbing on the wheel when the wheel is turned hard left. I guess I'll be replacing that hose again. I think this time I'll upgrade to the Deerfield Precision braided hoses. They look like a real bargain.

 

[Beater400E]

Well, maybe not. Anyone ever ordered from Deerfield's site before? It doesn't appear to work.

 

[dreaming.haze]

Went through the same struggle of trying to gain access to Deerfield Precision's site and perform an order on F+R Brake lines. Here were my notes:

1. When you add items to the "cart", you will note a non-secure message thrown. I am not too worried about this due to knowing the history of this site + individual based on this thread. Accept this message.
2. There looks to be a session id `osCsid` and `cpath` associated when guest access is made / navigation occurs / items are added to the cart. These likely don't need to be displayed to the public view, but it assisted in getting an understanding of why my order wasn't going through correctly.
3. If you have already entered the flow of adding items into your cart and then struggling to log into your account post creation (guest checkout flow), you will want to remove the trailing modifiers to the URL. ex: Deerfield Precision?cPath=32&osCsid=79tm7f5ds8bvgo5kpinlugeka7 > Deerfield Precision | This will allow for the login flow to occur correctly.
4. Once you are properly logged in, then you'll be able to re-add the brake lines and/or continue the checkout correctly.

Hope this helps out some future buyers.

EDIT: Put in this order last Wednesday and already have them in hand today (Monday). Quick delivery and they look fantastic. Will be great to replace the old rubber lines when replacing the stock 92 brakes with silver arrow.

Here were my old notes when I ordered from their site back in 2021. Likely still the same.

 

[Beater400E]

Thanks. I made it all the way to checkout, but can't get past the step to choose my shipping address. I click continue and it just cycles back to the same step.

 

[Beater400E]

I emailed him. We'll see if he gets back to me.

 

[Beater400E]

Update on the Racebox order. I requested a return and shipped the letter I'd received from the seller back to him. He gave me a 50% refund, and added a note that "original item was not returned in box." I disputed the assertion that I didn't return everything that was included in the package he'd sent and escalated to eBay support.

They should make their decision with 48 hours.

 

[Beater400E]

EBay ruled in my favor and issued a full refund.

 

[Beater400E]

Deerfield's phone is disconnected and I haven't heard anything back from the email. It's certainly possible that he'll get back to me, but in case I dont hear from him I guess I'll have to start looking around for other options. Anyone have any other suggestions for brake hoses?

 

[gsxr]

EBay ruled in my favor and issued a full refund.

Just curious - what was the purchase date, and what date was the unit drop-shipped with a second tracking number? I'm curious why they didn't use the "real" tracking number. And, if the seller will stop doing this now...

Deerfield's phone is disconnected and I haven't heard anything back from the email. It's certainly possible that he'll get back to me, but in case I dont hear from him I guess I'll have to start looking around for other options. Anyone have any other suggestions for brake hoses?

What email did you use to contact them?

 

[Beater400E]

Just curious - what was the purchase date, and what date was the unit drop-shipped with a second tracking number? I'm curious why they didn't use the "real" tracking number. And, if the seller will stop doing this now...

I placed the order on October 11th and received the Amazon shipment on the 17th. I was curious why they felt the need to send a tracked letter as well, when the Amazon tracking would have been available. Hopefully they will stop doing that now.

What email did you use to contact them?

I emailed wrxtra@gmail.com.

 

[gsxr]

I placed the order on October 11th and received the Amazon shipment on the 17th. I was curious why they felt the need to send a tracked letter as well, when the Amazon tracking would have been available. Hopefully they will stop doing that now.

Did they ever send you a second tracking number (from Amazon)? And was it a standard carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEx, DHL)?

Also - is there enough price difference for them to make any profit after eBay takes their ~12% cut? I can't figure out how this works.

I emailed wrxtra@gmail.com.

I'll ping him as well and see if I can figure out what's up... hope JB is ok!

 

[Beater400E]

Did they ever send you a second tracking number (from Amazon)? And was it a standard carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEx, DHL)?

Also - is there enough price difference for them to make any profit after eBay takes their ~12% cut? I can't figure out how this works.

They did send me the second tracking number after I initiated the return request. It was UPS. The price was maybe $5 more than Amazon, but Amazon had a much longer shipping time listed, which is why I elected to purchase from this eBay seller. He had it listed as 2-4 day shipping, so I elected to pay a few dollars more to get it sooner.

I have no idea how he was going to make money on it, unless he has some kind of tremendous deal with both eBay and Amazon. I'd assume he has some kind if Amazon affiliate kickback baked into his strategy.

I'll ping him as well and see if I can figure out what's up... hope JB is ok!

I appreciate it. If he's still making and selling them I'd love to have a set

 

[Beater400E]

I decided to do some sway bar upgrades while I'm doing the rest of the suspension. I have a W210 E55 rear bar on the way, as well as a R129 SL500 front bar. I know I'll have to deal with some fitment issues, but I'm sure I can handle it.

 

[Beater400E]

JB got back to me via email on those Deerfield brake lines. He's just going to send me a PayPal invoice.

 

[Beater400E]

Whoever designed these Bilstein struts and decided to put a 7 mm hex socket in the end of the shaft is an ass. Who has a 7 mm hex key?

That's rhetorical. I have one. But I had to do a fair bit of digging to find it. Still.

 

[Beater400E]

Still waiting on JB to send me an invoice for those brake hoses. Not trying to put him on blast, but I can see why many people have given up on trying to buy from him. The website doesn't work, the phone is disconnected, and it takes him days to reply to an email. Not sure how he intends to actually sell his products.

I'll give him another day or so and if I still don't hear from him I'll probably order elsewhere.

I found this set which I believe would also work:

Mercedes W201 - 190E Stainless Steel Complete 6 Brake Line Kit - DOT C

MERCEDES W201 - 190E STAINLESS STEEL COMPLETE 6 BRAKE LINE KIT- DOT COMPLIANT W201 owners listen up! It's time to replace those old, worn-out rubber brake lines with fresh stainless steel brake lines. These stainless steel brake lines do not expand under pressure and provide a consistent brake...

www.garagistic.com

 

[gerryvz]

Does anyone know what is happening with Deerfield? Is there a way to buy from them directly? The last time I bought a set of brake hoses from them was 2020, and the order was fulfilled just fine. I would like to buy two sets to have for my parts stock.

It does appear that the blingy red Garagistic brake lines will work with the 124......

 

[gsxr]

Gerry, I sent you an email with some more info...

 

[Beater400E]

Got the springs and struts installed. The ride height came down quite a bit.

I'm sitting right at 13" in the front and 12-3/4 in the rear from fender lip to center of wheel with about a half tank of fuel. That's down from 14-1/2 in the front and 15-1/4 in the rear.

It's dark out, so pictures in the shop are the best I can do right now.




The right front wheel appears to be set back in the wheelwell just a bit. It rubbed on the edge of the fender cladding on a big bump during my test drive. I assume it's something that an alignment will resolve. I've never had this car aligned in the time I've owned it. As soon as my new sway bars arrive and get installed it'll head in to get aligned.

 

[gsxr]

I'm sitting right at 13" in the front and 12-3/4 in the rear from fender lip to center of wheel with about a half tank of fuel. That's down from 14-1/2 in the front and 15-1/4 in the rear.

YIKES. You may feel differently, but IMO... that is way too low. The car may be sitting on the suspension stops, particularly in the rear... and the front may be really close to the stops. These appear to be 6-cyl springs (mentioned earlier in this post). I apply a piece of colored electrical tape to the shock body so I can easily see how much travel there is at rest, see photo below. If you installed "1-point" pads, you can try thicker ones but that will only make a small change in height.

The right front wheel appears to be set back in the wheelwell just a bit. It rubbed on the edge of the fender cladding on a big bump during my test drive. I assume it's something that an alignment will resolve. I've never had this car aligned in the time I've owned it. As soon as my new sway bars arrive and get installed it'll head in to get aligned.

Alignment likely won't fix this, you'll need to massage things for clearance, and trim the plastic cladding if needed.

 

[Beater400E]

These appear to be 6-cyl springs

These are H&R 29569-2, which according to H&R is correct for the 400E. The 29569-1 is the set for the 6 cylinder.

In theory anyway...

I ordered the H&R 29569-2 springs from Throtl. When they were delivered, it was just 4 springs loosely packed in a box. They had been able to roll around in the box and the part numbers were partly worn off. They are definitely H&R 29569- something.

I'll take some measurements and see how we're looking. When I drive it it does not feel like it's sitting on the stops.

 

[Beater400E]

If you installed "1-point" pads, you can try thicker ones but that will only make a small change in height.

I just reused the original pads all around. 2 point in front, 1 point in the rear.

 

[gsxr]

These are H&R 29569-2, which according to H&R is correct for the 400E. The 29569-1 is the set for the 6 cylinder.

H&R lists the 400E as a fitment, but they are smoking some serious stuff to imagine that 6-cyl springs (for a 300CE, 300E, or 300TD as listed) would be anywhere near correct for a V8 model that is hundreds of pounds heavier. The 400E has no business in their fitment chart at all. The -1 springs appear to have shorter/softer front springs for even more "drop".

If those springs were correct for a V8, you only would have dropped to about 13.25 front, 14.0 rear. You dropped 1.5" front and 2.5" rear which is nuts. Now your car has the rear lower than the front, opposite of what it should be, unless you're into Carolina Squat. I'd get the rear lifted up even if it means installing stock springs with a portion of the lower coil cut off. If you are happy with the front, the rear target would be about 13.25 in rear with a half tank or full tank of fuel.

https://www.hrsprings.com/application/search/resultsbymake/25/Suspension/

I ordered the H&R 29569-2 springs from Throtl. When they were delivered, it was just 4 springs loosely packed in a box. They had been able to roll around in the box and the part numbers were partly worn off. They are definitely H&R 29569- something.

I'll take some measurements and see how we're looking. When I drive it it does not feel like it's sitting on the stops.

Were they at least in an H&R box? Strange that H&R would have no cardboard or other packing to separate the springs, so the finish isn't damaged in shipping.

I'm curious now what the coil diameter and free length is on these springs, wish I had thought to ask before you installed them. Looks like I don't have the specs for the H&R springs in my spreadsheet.

 

[Beater400E]

I'd get the rear lifted up even if it means installing stock springs with a portion of the lower coil cut off. If you are happy with the front, the rear target would be about 13.25 in rear with a half tank or full tank of fuel.

Totally agree. I need to figure out what, if anything I want to do with the front first. Admittedly, I like the "ignorantly low" look in the front. If I have a reasonable amount of compression remaining, I may just leave it there. I will then adjust the rear as needed to get it where it needs to be. I think my goal would be to have it even front to rear with a full tank of fuel and my daughter in the back seat.



The springs were cheap, so if these don't work out it's not the end of the world. I think I paid like $225 for the set, shipped.

Were they at least in an H&R box? Strange that H&R would have no cardboard or other packing to separate the springs, so the finish isn't damaged in shipping.

I don't think so. As I recall the retailer, Throtl, just packed them loose in a generic box, but did stuff in the H&R brochures and a little bit of crumpled paper that did nothing to protect the contents.

I'm curious now what the coil diameter and free length is on these springs, wish I had thought to ask before you installed them. Looks like I don't have the specs for the H&R springs in my spreadsheet.

I can easily measure the wire thickness in chassis. If they have to come back out for whatever reason I can get some more measurements if you want. I'd imagine the rears will need to come out for spring pads at the very least.

 

[gsxr]

I think my goal would be to have it even front to rear with a full tank of fuel and my daughter in the back seat.

Yes - this would be perfect. I also try to get front+rear nearly the same with a full tank of fuel.

As I recall the retailer, Throtl, just packed them loose in a generic box, but did stuff in the H&R brochures and a little bit of crumpled paper that did nothing to protect the contents.

I hate sellers that are too lazy to pack items properly.

I can easily measure the wire thickness in chassis. If they have to come back out for whatever reason I can get some more measurements if you want. I'd imagine the rears will need to come out for spring pads at the very least.

Awesome! If they are out of the car, also count the estimated number of coils. The diameter, length, and coil count allows comparison to other springs (assuming they are linear, not progressive... really difficult to compare progressive springs).

FWIW, if you have thin pads up front, I'd try to raise the front up a little with thicker pads. The main worry is hitting the lower radiator support, which is extremely easy to do as it protrudes below the bumper. When the support tube pushed back, it is basically impossible to ever get it in the original position again. With a lot of annoying effort you can get it close enough to re-install the lower splash shield and restore proper distance between fan clutch & radiator core.

A majority of 124's have this support pushed back and most owners/shops have no idea unless it's shoved back far enough where the fan hits the radiator. I also suspect a lot of lower splash shields (all NLA now) got discarded because they will no longer attach when the support is shoved back. Trivia: Only the 124.036 chassis has a different, far more robust lower support tube that is above the bumper edge. On the E500E, the bumper hits before the support brace. Every other 124, the skimpy support hits first.

 

[Beater400E]

A majority of 124's have this support pushed back and most owners/shops have no idea unless it's shoved back far enough where the fan hits the radiator. I also suspect a lot of lower splash shields (all NLA now) got discarded because they will no longer attach when the support is shoved back. Trivia: Only the 124.036 chassis has a different, far more robust lower support tube that is above the bumper edge. On the E500E, the bumper hits before the support brace. Every other 124, the skimpy support hits first.

Sounds to me like the smart move would be to remake the lower support to provide better clearance and more strength. I'm missing the lower splash shield and am running the S55 fan setup, and I don't really intend to ever try to put it back to stock, so making a new lower support would probably be pretty simple.

 

[a777fan]

I’m not usually a ‘low’ bro, but i think the drop looks pretty fantastic!

Color me surprised.

 

[kegmankipp]

Low is flattering to the w124s but it has to be able to mob on the big freeway dips with no rubbing too.

New pads will be thicker than used by a good amount. Maybe try 4 bumps pads all around? Or 3 bump front and 4 bump rear? They are nice and cheap at the dealer.