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SLS adjustment

cossie

E500E Enthusiast
Member
The rear height levels up when there is load like it should, however, it stays that way and does not level down when unloaded. Tried adjusting the leveling arm but the system "thinks" its at its lowest level, hence the height does not lower - the only way to lower it further is to bleed the leveling valve. The height is maintained to the spec I want if I do not have passengers at the back.

What can be causing this? Can the leveling arm be set to the "lowering" level instead of the center level? I really don't mind if it does not level up when loaded - my concern is more on maintaining the stance I want anyway I rarely have passengers at the back.
 
Hi.

I have more or less the same problem on my SuperMerc. I tried to lower by adjusting the pivot on the SLS-valve, but the rear end did only go up. I simply took off the adjustment bolt and moved the pivot manually up and down with the engine idling, but with no noticable reaction. Even after a test drive over some kilometers it only settled approx. 10mm down back to the starting level I had.

I've never worked with the SLS-valve so I don't know how much resistance or how the pivot on the valve should feel when moving it, but I couldn't feel any resistance. I could neither notice that anything was moving in the suspension.

Any 2-cents on this?

-arnt-
 
Hi,

When I changed the spheres for the SLS on my car, moving the valve had a definite effect. From memory, I had to disconnect the valve linkage and move it to the "lowering" position in order to relieve the pressure in the spheres and the struts. The valve is moved in the direction it would move if the rear of the car was lifted. The rear of the car sinks but does not go very low as the steel springs carry quite a bit of the weight.

When I was bleeding the system, after changing the spheres, I think the procedure was to move the valve so as to raise and lower the back end and flush the fluid through. As far as I can recall the valve had definite resistance when moving it to raise or lower the car and the rear end should move up and down. It will move down quickly but will be quite slow to rise.

Best of luck.
 
Hello.

Blowing life into this thread again.

I've still not done anything with the SLS on my SuperMerc since the car is not much in use. Yesterday I replaced the H&R springs with the new Brabus springs, and when I lowered the jack the rear end reamined at max hight. From what's explained in the previous post, it shall be a noticeable resistance in the SLS valve when moving it. If the SLS-valve fails it's a quite simple item to replace, but is there any other sensors etc. which imply on the hight adjustment?

-arnt-
 
Arnt

When I reinstated SLS on my UK car it was part of a lot of other work. I was concentrating on the first start, oil pressure, etc so that I completely forgot about the SLS. I did the spheres and struts with new OEM parts. I did not fiddle with the valve or its adjustment as it is just so hard to get at. When I looked it had risen satisfactorily.

On my Oman car I did the spheres and struts with new OEM parts; again the system simply came up just as it should. No need to bleed anything on both occasions. I just relied on the system self bleeding and kept an eye on the reservoir level.

From the explanations in the earlier posts I suspect the valve is defective.

The only relevant "other adjustment" that I can think of, is the clamp on the rear anti-roll bar may have slipped around changing the valve lever position.

I did find some information regarding a repair of the valve on the Web, it looked fairly easy to replace the various seals so long as you are careful....sorry not to have the link.

Jim.
 
Arnt, after lowering the car, you need to drive it around - can't tell much of anything after just lowering the car to the floor. Also, if you disconnected the rear LCA to swap springs, make sure you are not tightening the pivot bolt with the car in the air; this will artifically increase ride height, stress the rubber bushing, and wear it out right quick. Then of course the SLS is the next obstacle. Dialing in rear ride height is a serious PITA!!

After driving a few km's, what is the rear ride height as measured from wheel center to fender lip (in inches, if possible)? I have reference data from my car with H&R's to compare to yours.
 
Arnt
....

From the explanations in the earlier posts I suspect the valve is defective.

The only relevant "other adjustment" that I can think of, is the clamp on the rear anti-roll bar may have slipped around changing the valve lever position.

I did find some information regarding a repair of the valve on the Web, it looked fairly easy to replace the various seals so long as you are careful....sorry not to have the link.

Jim.
Hi Jim.

I shall check the clamp position on the anti-roll bar. Since I still have the Limited I can compare. But it's likely that the SLS valve is defect, stucked or something, since the car didn't move when I operated the pivot manually.

-arnt-
 
Arnt, after lowering the car, you need to drive it around - can't tell much of anything after just lowering the car to the floor. Also, if you disconnected the rear LCA to swap springs, make sure you are not tightening the pivot bolt with the car in the air; this will artifically increase ride height, stress the rubber bushing, and wear it out right quick. Then of course the SLS is the next obstacle. Dialing in rear ride height is a serious PITA!!

After driving a few km's, what is the rear ride height as measured from wheel center to fender lip (in inches, if possible)? I have reference data from my car with H&R's to compare to yours.

Dave,

Last time I tried on this I drove some kilometers to let the SLS normalize, without any help. I did in fact tighten the pivot bolts when the car was lifted this time, but I wasn't aware that this really could hold up the car that much. I'll redo this again (...that was an amateur blunder). However, my suspicion goes against a defect SLS-valve.

-arnt-
 
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Got it. And if it really is at "max height", meaning the SLS is lifting the rear of the car all the way up, the SLS valve is definitely either defective or misadjusted. The rear end should not be any higher than approx 14.5" from fender lip to wheel center.
 
Got it. And if it really is at "max height", meaning the SLS is lifting the rear of the car all the way up, the SLS valve is definitely either defective or misadjusted. The rear end should not be any higher than approx 14.5" from fender lip to wheel center.
I haven't measured the exact hight since it's far too high, guess it's over 50mm gap between the tire and the fender arch now!?! I'll post the happy ending here when I'm done. (At the moment I'm working on the Limited.)

-arnt-
 
Re: SLS adjustment, oil reservoir

Hi.

I just wonders about this big oil reservoir for the SLS with several liters. Does it supply for the level variations on the car? Cooling? It also feeds the servopump, but the servopump do also have the filterhouse reservoir. This confuses me.

-arnt-
 
The SLS reservoir is for the suspension only. Though the "tandem pump" is a combination hydropneumatic rear suspension and power steering pump, each function utilizes its own supply of fluid. The fluid used for the rear suspension is different than MB power steering fluid used in the metal PS reservoir, and they should not be mixed.

The system works by replacing traditional coil springs with two pressurized cylinders (the "spheres") that are filled with nitrogen over each rear wheel and hydraulic oil-filled struts that incorporate gas dampers. The engine-driven tandem pump keeps the nitrogen system under pressure and topped up using the fluid in the reservoir. In effect, the hydraulic pressure created by the pump provides the "check and balance" resistance against the nitrogen in the spheres. The fluid in the reservoir also ensures that the system still works (maintains level and system pressure) when the engine is turned off. The function of the valve and lever on the rear axle is the actual leveling height adjustment.

By the way, the SLS fluid level is measured through a dipstick that is attached to the bottom of the black plastic filler cap. When "full," the reservoir should be roughly half-full (actually I think it slightly less than half-full).

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Gerry

P.S. Arnt, be glad you don't own a 450SEL 6.9. They have four-wheel hydraulic suspension and these cars have 5 (yes FIVE) nitrogen spheres in the system. Attached is the former GVZ 6.9 ....
 

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Thanks Gerry - that helped a lot on the understanding of this system.

I've just re-sealed the servopump and steering box on the Limited, but the quite large fluid reservoir confused me. I thought the SLS and steering used the same oil and have already added a small amount of the servo steering oil into the can, PN 000 989 88 03. I guess those 0,2 liter doesn't kill the system, the SLS oil do probably have a higher viscosity? The car is still lifted, not driven, which means the oil has not circulated in the system yet. So, if necessary I'll manage to suck the oil out from that can again, but I'll check out this first.

-arnt-
 
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I have a lot of experience with these SLS systems having owned 3 124 wagons, as well as a 560SEC all of which effectively have the same system as the 500E/E500. Not to mention the 450SEL 6.9 and then the air-suspension 300SEL 6.3 (which I think is better than the hydropneumatic systems, and which in recent years MB has gone back to with the Airmatic system). Everyone always says what a 'pain in the butt' and how expensive the SLS systems are to fix. However, if you change the fluid every two or three years and maintain the system (spheres are the main wear part as they are in effect the "springs") properly, you never have real problems with the system.

Very rare to have issues with the 500E/E500 systems but since the rear struts are now nearing 20 years old, they do wear out and require replacement. But heck, how many cars' shocks last 20 years? Not many....

Cheers,
Gerry
 
Everyone always says what a 'pain in the butt' and how expensive the SLS systems are to fix. However, if you change the fluid every two or three years and maintain the system (spheres are the main wear part as they are in effect the "springs") properly, you never have real problems with the system.

Gerry

Has anyone posted a good DIY on the SLS fluid flush/replacement? Does it use some type of Pentosin fluid?
 
Thanks Gerry - that helped a lot on the understanding of this system.

I've just re-sealed the servopump and steering box on the Limited, but the quite large fluid reservoir confused me. I thought the SLS and steering used the same oil and have already added a small amount of the servo steering oil into the can, PN 000 989 88 03. I guess those 0,2 liter doesn't kill the system, the SLS oil do probably have a higher viscosity? The car is still lifted, not driven, which means the oil has not circulated in the system yet. So, if necessary I'll manage to suck the oil out from that can again, but I'll check out this first.

-arnt-
Just a follow up on this. The correct oil for the SLS is 000 989 91 03, and the PN is in fact clearly printed on the label surrounding the filler cap on the SLS fluid reservoir. This is hydraulic oil with more optimum properties for the SLS than the steering oil, but they're both mineral oils and will mix entirely and not lead to any separation. I read a bit about it here; http://www.insidersecretstohydraulics.com/hydraulic-system-2.html

-arnt-
 
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More follow up.

Yesterday I pumped out the oil in the fluid reservoir. That oil did not look good, it was very black and it was some deposition on the bottom, but not much. I guess that oil has been there since the car was new. From what I understand from the SLS description, is the oil not circulating in the system during driving? If so, I expect it to be a bit cleaner in the reservoir. However, everything is now cleaned and new correct oil is on, clean and bright as honey. When the reservoir is half full, it is exactly 1 liter in there and that's slightly over the minimum level mark on the dip stick.

-arnt-
 
SLS problem

Hi,

I know there are lots of post about SLS but I can't find exactly what I need.

My SLS is not working. Visually, the cars seems to be at normal height but when I go out of the garage the exhaust hits the garage ramp. I have also loaded the back and the car sinks.

I think the pump is ok (no steering problems), the fluid level is also ok and the spheres were replaced four years/40.000km ago. There are no signs of leak in the struts. So I think what I have to check next is the valve and lever on the rear axle but I don't know where they are . Can someone provide a picture, please?

Thanks again for your help!
 
Re: SLS problem

The problem is that I don't know exactly what and how to check. The lever is number 20 or number 41? Where are they exactly located?

Thanks!
 

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Re: SLS problem

#20 is the sway bar end link.
#41 is the adjustment turnbuckle for the SLS valve.

The SLS valve itself is #8, and it mounts to bracket #68. You'll see this all under the car behind the spare tire well.

:detective:
 
Re: SLS problem

Thanks, Dave

I've been able to lift the car this afternoon and nothing seems to be obviously wrong with the valve or the adjustment turnbuckle (visually). I've first lifted the driver side normally but I haven't been able to lift the right side. The suspension went up but the wheel stayed on the ground like if it was stuck to it. It was like trying to lift an old Citroen, if you know what I mean; the body goes up and up but the wheel stays on the floor.

So, if the pump and fluid level are ok, there's no evidence of leaks anywhere and the spheres were replaced not long ago, do I have to assume that the problem is in the valve?

Thanks!
 
Re: SLS problem

From memory, when I changed the spheres on my car, the valve itself is attached to a pressed steel bracket which felt fairly flimsy. Could the bracket be weakened and the entire valve be moving rather than the lever on the valve?

Although the system is basically self bleeding, I think the manual specifies a bleeding process which involves disconnecting the rod to the lever and moving the lever manually so that the car is dropped and then raised a few times to circulate the oil from the struts to the pump etc. The SLS pump is separate from the steering pump so any SLS issues will not affect the steering.

When I did the spheres on my car, moving the lever on the valve did cause the car to go up and down, however at idle speeds it's quite slow to rise. It does fall quickly so be careful trying any tests as the car can go quite low. I had access to a pit so the full weight of the car was on the rear wheels. I think it would be very difficult to judge the action of the valve etc unless the full weight of the car is on the wheels.

If the valve reacts to movements as above then I would think it's likely to be OK.

Best of luck
 
Re: SLS problem

Thanks, Cavanman

I was tempted to move the lever manually but the car was lifted by a jack and I was afraid it could lower itself while I was underneath so I guess I'll have to take it to the mechanic to inspect it on a lift or pit.

I thought the SLS shared the pump with the steering. Where is the SLS pump then?

Thanks again!
 
Re: SLS problem

http://v12uberalles.com/articles_and_info.projects_page.htm

There are a couple of good informational pieces here on the SLS...basically the systems are the same thru-out the model ranges with this vintage MB.

You can raise and lower the car while the car is on the ground with the lever disconnected, it is VERY slow so no worrys really about getting crushed ! Remember that the engine needs to be revved some for the system to actually work, nothing will happen while at idle.

Yes, the steering pump is the SLS pump too.
 
Re: SLS problem

Hello.

Another SLS thread, probably ending up with the same conclusion as in this thread:
http://500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1028-SLS-adjustment
However, the problem must be solved. :-)

Here is a photo of a ZF tandem pump. The pump has two separate chambers, the outlets to the left serves the SLS, the right outlets goes to the steering box.

-arnt-

15.09.2011
Added some pics of the SLS-pump main internals, 2nd photo.
(the upper ring/sleeve on the photo is a tool only.)
3rd and 4th photo are the impeller for the steering pump.
 

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Re: SLS problem

Thanks guys! Very useful information.

A small update: after jacking the car yesterday, today the exhaust hasn't hit the garage ramp.
 
Re: SLS problem

Sorry about the confusion regarding the pump. While the SLS pump and power steering pump are part of the same physical unit, I believe the fluid systems and actual pumps are separate for each, thus a problem with one area might not be reflected in the other.

With regards to lowering the car with the lever, I would still be careful as I think it's possible to make it sink quite quickly by moving the lever a larger distance. As mentioned above, I don't think you'll see much effect unless the full weight of the car in on the wheels and I personally would not get under a car unless it was fully supported by jacks/stands, over a pit or on a secure lift.

On the old 500Ecstasy site there was a thread regarding ride height measurements. For the record, here were the measurements for my car at the time. These measurements were taken with an unloaded car, after driving round a while to make sure everything was settled and parking on a flat piece of road. The measurements are from the centre of the wheel to the highest point of the wheel arch.

Front Left 355mm (13.98")
Front Right 352mm (13.96")
Rear Left 368mm (14.49")
Rear Right 363mm (14.29")

Could your car be sinking slightly while parked, as citroens are prone to do? When you loaded the car, did the rear remain low after driving around or did it come up to height?

Best of luck

Cavanman
 
Re: SLS problem

While the SLS pump and power steering pump are part of the same physical unit, I believe the fluid systems and actual pumps are separate for each, thus a problem with one area might not be reflected in the other.
100% correct.


Front Left 355mm (13.98")
Front Right 352mm (13.96")
Rear Left 368mm (14.49")
Rear Right 363mm (14.29")
Those numbers are spot on for a stock 500E/E500. Note that the rear will vary approx 1/2" (~12mm) between a full tank of fuel and an empty tank.



Could your car be sinking slightly while parked, as citroens are prone to do? When you loaded the car, did the rear remain low after driving around or did it come up to height?
When my cars are parked for a long time (i.e., weeks) the rear does tend to settle down a bit and measure lower than normal. You are correct that it's a good idea to drive around a bit to get the system equalized before taking measurements, on a nice flat surface, noting the amount of fuel in the tank.


:detective:
 
Re: SLS problem

Gerry - what about merging the other thread into this one and make it a sticky thread? That would accumulate all SLS issues into one place and be of great value.

-arnt-

I think that is a great idea. I didn't ask about my problem on the other thread because I thought it was a different problem and I didn't want to hijack others thread.
 
Re: SLS problem

Hi.

I've added some pics of the pump internals in my previous post with photo of the ZF tandem pump. Regrettfully I didn't make a full photo session of the entire overhaul. It's not a complex job, but it is some details to be aware of.

- One is to insert the impeller blades in correct direction. From what I could see are the edges on them a bit different. The outer edge is more rounded.

- The other thing is to put the impeller wheel on the pump axle with correct side facing the lock ring/clip. If not, the lock ring can be kicked off during operation!

-arnt-
 
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Re: SLS problem

Hi.

I've added some pics of the SLS pump internals in my previous post with photo of the ZF tandem pump. Regrettfully I didn't make a full photo session of the entire overhaul. It's not a complex job, but it is some details to be aware of.

One is to insert the impeller blades in correct direction. From what I could see are the edges on them a bit different. The outer edge are more rounded.

The other thing is to put the impeller wheel on the pump axle with correct side facing the lock ring/clip. If not can the lock ring be kicked off during operation!

-arnt-

Very, very interesting, arnt!

Did you do the overhaul yourself? What parts are involved? Are they aviable from Mercedes? How can you check that the pump is not working properly?
 
Re: SLS problem

Hi Esteban.

Yes, I did the overhaul myself. The pump was leaking quite much, but it wasn't the sealrings. When I got the pump out I found 3 loose bolts on the cover with the hose from the servo oil reservoir. And the 4th bolt was not much tight either. I bought a sealring KIT, probably for several pump types since it includes surplus seals not for this pump. When the pump is out you also change the short hose between the servo oil reservoir and pump.

I'm not aware of the diagnoses for a faulty SLS pump, but if the four pistons are stucked it should make some noise. You can loosen the inlet tube on top of the SLS-reservoir and see if the oil is circulating. You can also loosen the high pressure hose on the pump, but it's VERY restricted acces down there, so it's better to loosen the tube at the SLS-valve. I don't know the pressure rates on this.

Seal KIT: 000 460 37 80
SLS oil : 000 989 91 03
Servo oil: 000 989 88 03
Servo filter: 000 466 21 04
Hose: 006 997 09 82 (it comes in 1 meter length only)
The return hose for SLS-oil to the pump, no PN sorry
2 gasket rings for the banjo on SLS high pressure hose

-arnt-

PS. I have updated the text a bit in my post #8 with the pump pics.
 
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Re: SLS problem

Some more info for a servo pump DIY.

It's not possible to see the hose clamps on the short hose under the servo oil reservoir. When you put the hand in there, it's neither room for a mirror and a torch, and at same time see something. I shot a photo to see the orientation of the clamps, then it's easy to do a blind operation. Use a socket wrench, not a screw driver.

-arnt-
 

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Re: SLS problem

I've just been able to make a quick check for leaks and/or noises but it seems to be fine. Anyway, thanks for the pictures!!!

I won't be back in Madrid until next month but I promise to update then.

Thanks again!!
 
Re: SLS problem

I use the sls system for additional ride height in the rear of my 500E which rides on H&R springs. Recently, while using the factory jack points to change wheels (one side at a time) i found that this procedure is changing the setting. I believe that the extreme difference in hub position while jacking (the H&R springs increase the difference) is causing the sls lever clamp to slip on the anti-sway bar as Jim mentioned above. I will verify that the clamp is not loose when i reset. Just another issue to consider when setting the sls.

drew
 
I have a lot of experience with these SLS systems having owned 3 124 wagons, as well as a 560SEC all of which effectively have the same system as the 500E/E500. Not to mention the 450SEL 6.9 and then the air-suspension 300SEL 6.3 (which I think is better than the hydropneumatic systems, and which in recent years MB has gone back to with the Airmatic system). Everyone always says what a 'pain in the butt' and how expensive the SLS systems are to fix. However, if you change the fluid every two or three years and maintain the system (spheres are the main wear part as they are in effect the "springs") properly, you never have real problems with the system.

Very rare to have issues with the 500E/E500 systems but since the rear struts are now nearing 20 years old, they do wear out and require replacement. But heck, how many cars' shocks last 20 years? Not many....

Cheers,
Gerry

Gerry, would you bother with a BG fluid flush service here or just a drain and fill? My car set for years in FL without regular driving before I bought it. I'm thinking that I want to get any gunk or sludge in the hydraulic fluid out. What do you think?

Thanks in advance.

maw
 
I'd do a flush. Good preventative maintenance, particularly if you don't have definitive knowledge that it's been done in at least the past 3 years....
 
I would like to lower the rear end of my car by SLS adjustment.

What is the best approach?
I belive that I need to ajust the connecting Rod (7) It seems a bit rusty so I might need to replace it (dones anyone have the part number?)

Is there anything else i need to consider before ajusting, other spare parts, oil change etc.?


levelcontroller.jpg
 
Hi.

I recommend you take off the connecting rod and clean & lubricate, that should save it. At the same time you'll be able to check that the SLS really works. Place the car on a "bridge lift", resting on the wheels, leave the car idling, and move the lever on the SLS-valve and notice the movement of the car. The car moves quite slowely. When you move the lever down the car also goes down, and vice versa to elevate.

I also recommend to bleed some air from the system at the same time. It's a bleeding screw on top of the SLS-valve, and you also bleed at the hose terminals up at the hydropneumatic struts. If you elevate the car to max hight first, you get easy access to the hose terminals on the struts. Keep in mind that the system is pressurized, so you don't need to open much to get the mix of air and oil out quite fast. It is a messy job.

Cheers
 
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I think my SLS system might be broken, one it looks like the car is at maximum hight at the rear and two the plastic oil reservoir is almost empty.

WP_000151.jpg

WP_000148.jpg

The car is not leaking oil, so could it be that the diaphgram in the spring accumulators broked and the oil leaked from the oil chamber into the gas chamber?

Anyway to quick check the condition of the accumulators?
 
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Re: SLS problem

I use the sls system for additional ride height in the rear of my 500E which rides on H&R springs. Recently, while using the factory jack points to change wheels (one side at a time) i found that this procedure is changing the setting. I believe that the extreme difference in hub position while jacking (the H&R springs increase the difference) is causing the sls lever clamp to slip on the anti-sway bar as Jim mentioned above. I will verify that the clamp is not loose when i reset. Just another issue to consider when setting the sls.

drew
Has anyone else have had the same expereience?
This would be really bad... my car is HR lowered too and i do the wheel changes myself usually with a shop car jack... I dont want to change anything in the systems settings
 
The car is not leaking oil, so could it be that the diaphgram in the spring accumulators broked and the oil leaked from the oil chamber into the gas chamber?

Anyway to quick check the condition of the accumulators?

There is usually no external signs of worn accumulators. The tell-tale sign is a firm, bouncy or harsh ride.
 
Re: SLS problem

Has anyone else have had the same expereience?
This would be really bad... my car is HR lowered too and i do the wheel changes myself usually with a shop car jack... I dont want to change anything in the systems settings

Try using two jacks (if you have 2 or can borrow 1) to lift the car evenly. I am going to try this the next time i change wheels. I have not done so since the original post. It is also possible the SLS system just can't accomodate the increased wheel / suspension travel. I have never experienced any problems or changes after setting. This only occured after jacking.

drew
 
Re: SLS problem

Hello.

Good or bad news, but interesting!

Due to my partly non-functional SLS on my '92, I dismantled the entire SLS valve yesterday. I am now preparing a detail description of it's function to show the possible wear points on the valve causing that it may not operate in a full range. In my case the car elevated to max height, but didn't lower properly to minimum height, but stopped approx. halfway. Everything else on the SLS system is checked out, so the only suspicious thing left is the SLS valve.

The valve and its internals are quite small parts and it takes some time to get good images and do the write-up. I don't subscribe on the full EPC so I don't have access to technical documentation and notes (WIS?). If somebody here have the documentation for the SLS system/SLS valve available, it would be greate to have prior to the write-up, so I can use the same vocabulary. Enclosed is a couple of pics I snapped of the valve this morning. The internals are removed on the last image. The PN R 124 328 00 31 doesn't show up in the EPC for the valve, maybe it is the valve housing only? The EPC comes up with A202 320 02 58 on the valve.

Cheers
 

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Re: SLS problem

I would highly appreciate if someone could post the FSM for the SLS-valve. It would be a great help for preparing the announced write-up during the weekend.

Thanks.
 

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