Wavetrac 210mm Diffs anyone looking?

[5thscaleracer]

I'm doing a Wavetrac stock order and wanted to know if anyone is looking for a 210mm diff.

If anyone is interested

10% deposit
MSRP is $1395.00 + tax
Free Shipping with in the USA (48 states)

let me know.

 

[gsxr]

They still want a minimum stock order of 25 units?

I'm not currently in need of one, just curious if you have to shell out $30k at a time!

 

[5thscaleracer]

For the 500E 210mm diff they have enough parts to make me a few (few is probably less than 5).

My stock order consists of the 185mm diff for the 190E 16V that i would need to do a 25 minimum order so yes i will be pre-paying $34,874.00

 

[kegmankipp]

What is the ratio? 2.81? 2.65?

 

[socal210]

Is the wavetrac part number for the 210mm diff 50.309.150WK?

 

[gsxr]

Wavetrac for 210mm in W124 will work with 2.65, 2.82, or 3.06 ratios only. The part number is on their website.

 

[5thscaleracer]

Is the wavetrac part number for the 210mm diff 50.309.150WK?

correct

 

[Markus-MD]

Respekt

 

[ArauzMotoring]

How soon do you need the money? I wanted to order one of these for a while now..

 

[5thscaleracer]

How soon do you need the money? I wanted to order one of these for a while now..

take a 10% deposit and rest due in say 1-2 weeks time?

 

[bicylindrico]

So wish I could upgrade the 3.69 but not willing to switch to the 3.06

 

[gsxr]

So wish I could upgrade the 3.69 but not willing to switch to the 3.06

In theory you could use the Wavetrac with a custom-machined spacer on 3.69 gears, but it would require some R&D and custom length bolts...

 

[Rouven036]

I could use a wavetrac diff for my 190 3.6 build. Have to check what's the stock diff 2.6 ratio and if it would fit. What's the ratio range it fits too?

 

[gsxr]

I could use a wavetrac diff for my 190 3.6 build. Have to check what's the stock diff 2.6 ratio and if it would fit. What's the ratio range it fits too?

Does your W201 build have a 210mm diff...?

 

[Rouven036]

No, it will maintain the stock one, but want to put a wavetrac in it.

 

[gsxr]

No, it will maintain the stock one, but want to put a wavetrac in it.

There's a different Wavetrac available for 185mm diffs, and the 185 is not interchangeable with the 210mm.

IIRC, the 185mm Wavetrac unit was designed for 3.27 gears in the 190E-16 and should also fit 3.07 ratios.

 

[Rouven036]

Certainly not interchangeable the 185mm with the 210mm diff core. No I ment I would be in to take one of the 201 5sr is going to get if it fits the 2.6 diff (which I have to check yet retio wise)

 

[gsxr]

Certainly not interchangeable the 185mm with the 210mm diff core. No I ment I would be in to take one of the 201 5sr is going to get if it fits the 2.6 diff (which I have to check yet retio wise)

AH, got it. I believe the 185mm units he will be getting only fit 3.07 and 3.27 gearsets... need to peek underneath your car and see what's in there.

 

[TimL]

Im doing a Wavetrac stock order and wanted to know if anyone is looking for a 210mm diff.

If anyone is interested

10% deposit
MSRP is $1395.00 + tax
Free Shipping with in the USA (48 states)

let me know.

@5thscaleracer are you still doing this group buy or alternatively do you have any leftovers from that group buy? I’m interested in a wavetrac differential

 

[5thscaleracer]

i think i have one left let me verify on Tuesday

 

[TimL]

Ok thanks. Please PM me when you checked and we’ll go from there.

Thanks

 

[TimL]

i think i have one left let me verify on Tuesday

Hello @5thscaleracer, any news on this? Thanks!

 

[TimL]

@5thscaleracer, money sent. Thanks for making these available

 

[kegmankipp]

any chance you have another one???

 

[Alphasud40]

I would consider buying one as well. I sent a request to Quaife for one of their units as well.

 

[oaklandw124]

I would consider buying one as well. I sent a request to Quaife for one of their units as well.

I have a quaife from GSXR's 500E that I had removed. PM me if interested.

 

[TimL]

I have a quaife from GSXRs 500E that I had removed. PM me if interested.

Sacrilege! The Man himself put this in!

Cool that you are offering it up for sale though

 

[oaklandw124]

Sacrilege! The Man himself put this in!

Cool that you are offering it up for sale though

I know. I'm probably going to regret it, but wanted to take it back to stock.

 

[Alphasud40]

PM sent

 

[gsxr]

I have a quaife from GSXRs 500E that I had removed. PM me if interested.

Just FYI for interested parties, this is a complete 2.65 ASR differential with Quaife ATB installed, ready to bolt into any E500E, and into any 034 (400E/E420) with ASR. Should include the correct ASR wheel speed sensors for W124 as well but oaklandw124 can confirm what exactly was R&R'd.

 

[5thscaleracer]

If anyone is looking for a Wavetrac diff I have 3 left before they become NLA

DM or E-mail for quicker response
2023 pricing is $1495.00 + Shipping to you

Email: 5thscaleracer@verizon.net

 

[Alphasud40]

PM sent

 

[5thscaleracer]

PM sent

I have one set aside for you

2 left

 

[DerFuror]

PM sent.

 

[5thscaleracer]

1 Left

 

[M104-AMG]

1 Left

If available, I'll take it.

neil

 

[5thscaleracer]

If available, Ill take it.

neil

i have one with your name on it.

 

[5thscaleracer]

all diffs on hold are pending payments.

If someone were to back out I will go down the waiting list.

Thanks again for everyones support.

 

[gsxr]

i have one with your name on it.

wow, I didn't know you offered free engraving service! (J/K!)

 

[Alphasud40]

I think it was the “before the become NLA“ that did it for me. That and loosing out on the complete set-up recently offered.

 

[gsxr]

Forgot to mention earlier, but for either Wavetrac or Quaife ATB diffs, you need a gear oil with zero friction modifiers. I highly recommend Motul Gear 300 75W-90 (not Gear 300 LS, which is the friction-modified version for clutch-type LSD's). It's expensive, but worth it... actually points like motor oil instead of maple syrup in January.

MOTUL GEAR 300 75W-90 GEAR OIL Motul 105777

Ensure smooth gear transitions with MOTUL GEAR 300 75W-90. High-quality, durable oil for optimal vehicle performance.

shopmotul.com

Bad news is, this stuff is on nationwide backorder, so you'll have to wait to get any... unless you can locate a few random bottles on a dusty shelf somewhere. Need 2 bottles to fill the 1.3L diff after the build is complete. There's a seller on eBay with 6 bottles left, $40/ea delivered, ouch.

 

[5thscaleracer]

Forgot to mention earlier, but for either Wavetrac or Quaife ATB diffs, you need a gear oil with zero friction modifiers. I highly recommend Motul Gear 300 75W-90 (not Gear 300 LS, which is the friction-modified version for clutch-type LSDs). Its expensive, but worth it... actually points like motor oil instead of maple syrup in January.

MOTUL GEAR 300 75W-90 GEAR OIL Motul 105777

Ensure smooth gear transitions with MOTUL GEAR 300 75W-90. High-quality, durable oil for optimal vehicle performance.

shopmotul.com

Bad news is, this stuff is on nationwide backorder, so youll have to wait to get any... unless you can locate a few random bottles on a dusty shelf somewhere. Need 2 bottles to fill the 1.3L diff after the build is complete. Theres a seller on eBay with 6 bottles left, $40/ea delivered, ouch.

Sooo

I have 2 cases instock hahahah??
Because I’m a Wavetrac dealer.

So if you can’t find the fluid let me know I got some.

*** Update ***
I spoke too soon

2qt 75W90 which is sold
2 cases of 75W140

 

[Jlaa]

Forgot to mention earlier, but for either Wavetrac or Quaife ATB diffs, you need a gear oil with zero friction modifiers. I highly recommend Motul Gear 300 75W-90 (not Gear 300 LS, which is the friction-modified version for clutch-type LSDs). Its expensive, but worth it... actually points like motor oil instead of maple syrup in January.

MOTUL GEAR 300 75W-90 GEAR OIL Motul 105777

Ensure smooth gear transitions with MOTUL GEAR 300 75W-90. High-quality, durable oil for optimal vehicle performance.

shopmotul.com

Bad news is, this stuff is on nationwide backorder, so youll have to wait to get any... unless you can locate a few random bottles on a dusty shelf somewhere. Need 2 bottles to fill the 1.3L diff after the build is complete. Theres a seller on eBay with 6 bottles left, $40/ea delivered, ouch.

Sooo

I have 2 cases instock hahahah??
Because I’m a Wavetrac dealer.

So if you can’t find the fluid let me know I got some.

*** Update ***
I spoke too soon

2qt 75W90 which is sold
2 cases of 75W140

How about Redline 75W90NS?

75W90NS GL-5 Gear Oil

Designed for transmissions and transaxles - helps to slow synchros for easier shifting across a broad temperature range

www.redlineoil.com

Red Line 58304 (75W90) Limited Slip Synthetic Gear Oil - 1 Quart Bottle https://a.co/d/4Rkljru

I have been using this non friction modifier gear oil in my sport beetle’s G50 gearbox (buttery smooth in a gearbox known to have some crunching when cold) and in my Torque Biasing Differential on the same car (gearbox and diff share oil) and I love it.

 

[5thscaleracer]

How about Redline 75W90NS?

75W90NS GL-5 Gear Oil

Designed for transmissions and transaxles - helps to slow synchros for easier shifting across a broad temperature range

www.redlineoil.com

Red Line 58304 (75W90) Limited Slip Synthetic Gear Oil - 1 Quart Bottle https://a.co/d/4Rkljru

I have been using this non friction modifier gear oil in my sport beetle’s G50 gearbox (buttery smooth in a gearbox known to have some crunching when cold) and in my Torque Biasing Differential on the same car (gearbox and diff share oil) and I love it.

Not an approved product by Wavetrac

Must use Gear300

Redline “meets” the requirement but it’s not even close to Gear 300.

An alternative would be Castrol SAF-XO which is also not approved by Wavetrac but it is similar to Motul Gear 300.

The difference is the friction package that is used with Redline VS Motul is different.

DO NOT USE ANY REDLINE OILS WITH A WAVETRAC PRODUCT!

 

[Jlaa]

Not an approved product by Wavetrac

Must use Gear300

Redline “meets” the requirement but it’s not even close to Gear 300.

An alternative would be Castrol SAF-XO which is also not approved by Wavetrac but it is similar to Motul Gear 300.

The difference is the friction package that is used with Redline VS Motul is different.

DO NOT USE ANY REDLINE OILS WITH A WAVETRAC PRODUCT!

Hmmmmm..... I am surprised by this blanket statement. Could this be a misunderstanding? Intrigued, I went to the Wavetrac website where I saw this in the FAQ:

Wavetrac® Differential - A torque biasing differential with a difference

Perhaps a misplaced comma? Note that

• The highlighted text advises against Red Line Shockproof Oils
• The bolded text below advises against "Redline, Shockproof".

Looking at Redline's website, it seems (but is not verified) that 75W-90NS is exactly what Wavetrac is looking for when it comes to not creating too much slipperiness..... because the "NS" label indicates that this particular 75W-90 does NOT have friction modifier and is NOT part of the the Redline shockproof line.

Shockproof Line: Red Line Synthetic Oil. ShockProof® Gear Oil

75W-90NS: 75W90NS GL-5 Gear Oil

Redline 75W-90NS OEM Compatibility:





Notice that Motul 300 talks about "Extreme Pressure" additives in the same way that 75W-90NS does: https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/GEAR_300_75W-90_en_DE_motul_34200_20221014.pdf



I suppose this question is unanswerable unless someone calls up Redline and Wavetrac and speak with their application engineers.
FWIW I have always received expert advice from David Granquist @ Redline on specific technical recommendations.

 

[gsxr]

Jlaa, I think you are correct. Shockproof is a definite no-go but their NS lube should be fine - however, I'd confirm with Wavetrac before using.

Note the Red Line juice still won't pour like the Motul. The easy pour (low viscosity at room temp) sold me on the Motul despite the higher cost. Soooo much easier to work with; especially when filling the diff in the car (not the workbench).

 

[Jlaa]

OK Wavetrac wrote me back. Sounds like they haven't tested all Redline products and they just stay away from Redline, generally speaking. Fascinating.

 

[gsxr]

Looks like Wavetrac doesn't understand the Red Line products. They likely had one bad experience with someone using Shockproof, and decided to just not recommend that their customers use *any* RL lube, so that way people won't accidentally use the wrong stuff. Pretty lame IMO, I'd call them out on it via telephone but it would likely fall on deaf ears. They probably just don't care. Really irritates me to see stupidity like this. I'm still pissed at Wavetrac for their incompetence when I helped them develop the 500E differential application 10 years ago, and this Red Line isn't helping my opinion any. I still like their products though; but now that the Quaife is lower priced... hmmm...

 

[5thscaleracer]

Looks like Wavetrac doesnt understand the Red Line products. They likely had one bad experience with someone using Shockproof, and decided to just not recommend that their customers use *any* RL lube, so that way people wont accidentally use the wrong stuff. Pretty lame IMO, Id call them out on it via telephone but it would likely fall on deaf ears. They probably just dont care. Really irritates me to see stupidity like this. Im still pissed at Wavetrac for their incompetence when I helped them develop the 500E differential application 10 years ago, and this Red Line isnt helping my opinion any. I still like their products though; but now that the Quaife is lower priced... hmmm...

So Wavetrac is Autotech Sport Tuning an old VW/Audi tuning shop back in the 80's.

They were a Redline dealer from 80 to mid 2000's and they were the Quaife distributor/dealer for North America at one time.

Their whole staff is familiar with redline fluid offerings.

So it's not that they don't understand the redline product. Most likely they have seen unfavorable results from the use of Redline and possibly other oils over the years. It makes sense that they will suggest an oil of their choice to help protect their product.

I have tried Redline 75w90NS back in 2016 when Gear 300 was on BO for 6 months. Diff felt ok no issues aside from boiling the fluid over after doing 20 laps non stop at Bigwillow with the 190E. Ended up draining and using Castrol that same day and didn't have the boil over issues. Castrol made the diff smoother on deceleration. The transition from power to no power (throttle steering) where the Wavetrac stays locked.

So if any of you want to try redline for street use i am sure it will be fine. But if you are going to claim "warranty" expect some kick back form Wavetrac for not using their suggested fluid.

Are you guys familiar with a company called Lubrizol?

That company along with others like them are what differentiate what is Castrol, Mobil, Motul, Redline, Royal purple etc.
The oils we use today are based off these basic ingredients.
- Base Stock
- Friction Pack (purchased from 3rd party company like Lubrizol)
- Proprietary Secret Sauce (I call it snake oil umami)

you guys should google Lubrizol and really go down that rabbit hole attempting to determine who makes the best. I did my research back in my collage years. All i can say is it's a waste of time! If a Mfg says use X use X. If you want to use Y then just own up to the mistake if something were to happen.

 

[5thscaleracer]

Hmmmmm..... I am surprised by this blanket statement. Could this be a misunderstanding? Intrigued, I went to the Wavetrac website where I saw this in the FAQ:

Wavetrac® Differential - A torque biasing differential with a difference

View attachment 160191

Perhaps a misplaced comma? Note that

• The highlighted text advises against Red Line Shockproof Oils
• The bolded text below advises against Redline, Shockproof.

Looking at Redlines website, it seems (but is not verified) that 75W-90NS is exactly what Wavetrac is looking for when it comes to not creating too much slipperiness..... because the NS label indicates that this particular 75W-90 does NOT have friction modifier and is NOT part of the the Redline shockproof line.

Shockproof Line: Red Line Synthetic Oil. ShockProof® Gear Oil

75W-90NS: 75W90NS GL-5 Gear Oil

Redline 75W-90NS OEM Compatibility:

View attachment 160192 View attachment 160193

View attachment 160194

Notice that Motul 300 talks about Extreme Pressure additives in the same way that 75W-90NS does: https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/GEAR_300_75W-90_en_DE_motul_34200_20221014.pdf

View attachment 160195 View attachment 160196

I suppose this question is unanswerable unless someone calls up Redline and Wavetrac and speak with their application engineers.
FWIW I have always received expert advice from David Granquist @ Redline on specific technical recommendations.

Redline makes a great product but you are looking at this the wrong way.

Redline and Motul can't make the same product they can only make similar or equivalent products. But that variable can make a difference in performance down the line.

Its like painting a car..
PPG 199 paint code vs Sikkens 199 Paint code

Similar product its paint
but colors won't match
ppg is thinner
sikkens is a harder paint

If you are happy with redline on that G50 trans good for you but I have a group of friends who hate redline for the G50 and use Fusch or Titan.

So personal preference I think is irrelevant especially when comparing a G50 environment to a differential environment.

All i can say is if you are using an equivalent oil for whatever reason monitor the performance.