group buy - Wavetrac differentials for w124

[M104-AMG]

I wonder if the Redline's 75W90 NS, 75W140NS is better suited: [These lubricants] do not contain the friction modifiers for limited-slip hypoid differentials.
This makes the transmission synchronizers come to equal speeds more quickly, allowing faster shifting and much easier low-temperature shifting.

Can also be used in racing limited-slip differentials where weak spring design causes too much wheel spin. These products provide significantly more lockup. Some Limited-Slip Friction
Modifier may be required for optimum performance.

 

[Jackasic]

I think I am still waiting on these guys, hit them up if you know them.

doolar
Mejnoon

 

[Jackasic]

check sent off to wavetrac, I am going to have them drop ship the diffs to the guys here in America. Some of the CA guys are going to pick them up. If you are overseas, let me know how you want them shipped.

 

[gerryvz]

Please keep mine at your shop for me - I'll be by at a mutually agreeable time this summer.....

 

[bing]

Guys, quick question .. Does this require an installation/mounting kit like quaife or is it straight bolt on ? I know Dave mentioned straight bolt on in one of his posts but just wanted to double check .

 

[doolar]

I think I am still waiting on these guys, hit them up if you know them.

doolar
Mejnoon

Sorry once again for the delay, but I placed my payment today. PM:ed you Brandon with my details.

BR Thomas

 

[gsxr]

Guys, quick question .. Does this require an installation/mounting kit like quaife or is it straight bolt on ? I know Dave mentioned straight bolt on in one of his posts but just wanted to double check .

WaveTrac should supply the spring clips needs to retain the axle stub shafts, but I guess we'll find out when we receive them.

You'll need to buy other stuff separately... I'd replace the differential side oil seals, O-rings for the side bearing carriers, and the ASR sensor O-rings too. Oh, you'll need to buy the bearings too... part numbers shown here, click the "bearing" pics. We'll need to have Gerry create one of his signature "HOW TO" threads for the LSD install.

NOTE: There is an EPC error on the ASR sensor O-rings... EPC only shows the thick O-ring for plastic ASR sensors, it should also show the thin O-ring for metal sensors. Every 036 that I've touched has the metal sensors, which requires O-ring 014-997-97-48 (not shown in EPC).

 

[jhodg5ck]

WaveTrac should supply the spring clips needs to retain the axle stub shafts, but I guess we'll find out when we receive them.

You'll need to buy other stuff separately... I'd replace the differential side oil seals, and the ASR sensor O-rings too. There is an EPC error on these O-rings... it only shows the thick O-ring for plastic ASR sensors, it should also show the thin O-ring for metal sensors. Every 036 that I've touched has the metal sensors, which requires O-ring 014-997-97-48 (not shown in EPC). Oh, you'll need to buy the bearings too... part numbers shown here, click the "bearing" pics. Will need to have Gerry create a "HOW TO" for the LSD install.

We also like to replace the pinion bearing/crush collar and seal while we are there. I'm seeing more and more pinion seals leak as these cars age...and this is Very much a "while you are here" item, but the torque/crushing said collar to the appropriate spec/clearance is a bit tricky...:-/

We have 3 diff's waiting here to get done...one for 500E, one E420 5.0 and lastly the black Hammer that sold recently..



big thanks to Dave and Brandon/Brandon and Dave for making this come together...!

jono

 

[gsxr]

FWIW... the pinion should only be touched if you are VERY confident with your differential building skillz. As Jono says, the install is tricky and almost nobody has the special rotational torque tool required to properly set the preload. I would generally not recommend any DIY'er attempt this unless it is leaking. So far, knock on wood, I've not had a single pinion seal leak on a 124 diff. If it needs pinion bearings, shoot, I'd scrap it and get another core diff to build, rather than mess with that R&R.

Looking forward to getting this installed!!!

 

[gerryvz]

This is one job I'm likely going to have a rear end shop do for me ... similarly when I had the 3.07 gearset transplanted into my 560SEC pumpkin, to replace the stock 2.47

 

[gsxr]

I didn't mean to scare folks away... the LSD install is advanced DIY, but still DIY'able. You may need to buy or fabricate a couple of tools, but if you don't touch the pinion/flange, it isn't too bad. I've done three so far, this will be my fourth. Installing LSD is far easier than a gearset swap, which requires messing with the pinion.

 

[jhodg5ck]

I didn't mean to scare folks away... the LSD install is advanced DIY, but still DIY'able. You may need to buy or fabricate a couple of tools, but if you don't touch the pinion/flange, it isn't too bad. I've done three so far, this will be my fourth. Installing LSD is far easier than a gearset swap, which requires messing with the pinion.

Yea, forgot to mention that, two of our builds are gear swaps...Hammer is going from 3.06 to 2.24 as is the 500E. 3K @ 80 drives me batty.

the 420/5.0 is a 2.24 already which the CO plans on keeping.
It's a veritable high speed gear festival down here...;-)

If anyone doesn't want to fiddle with this sort of thing/get a full re-build/seal/gear change let me know. We also can powder coat the housings if someone wants to be snazzy (both high and low gloss FWIW).

I'll post some photos of the PC'd housing once they are done..!

Jono

 

[bing]

WaveTrac should supply the spring clips needs to retain the axle stub shafts, but I guess we'll find out when we receive them.

But isn’t the unit enclosed/sealed ? :?

need to buy other stuff separately... I'd replace the differential side oil seals, O-rings for the side bearing carriers, and the ASR sensor O-rings too. Oh, you'll need to buy the bearings too... part numbers shown here, click the "bearing" pics. We'll need to have Gerry create one of his signature "HOW TO" threads for the LSD install.

NOTE: There is an EPC error on the ASR sensor O-rings... EPC only shows the thick O-ring for plastic ASR sensors, it should also show the thin O-ring for metal sensors. Every 036 that I've touched has the metal sensors, which requires O-ring 014-997-97-48 (not shown in EPC).

Thanks , Dave. So i guess most of these items are worn or likely aged anyway, and as Jono mentioned “while you’re there” .

Just researching as always for my previous 036 with a friend and we managed to get a quote from a UK distributor with good Trade discount (Sorry Brandon for not partaking in your group buy )

 

[gsxr]

But isn’t the unit enclosed/sealed ?

Yes, which means you can't use the stock C-clips. Different clips are required, similar to newer model MB's.

 

[Jackasic]

money is off to wavetrac, should be dropping to a location near you pretty soon.

 

[Klink]

Jono, Let us know how you like your 500E with the 2.24. I have thought about doing that same thing for years on end, for the same reason. I thought I had to be the only one in the world fantasizing about a "Low-Performance Modification"...
Thanks,
Klink (from just across town, btw)

 

[J-Sauce]

Everything has a trade off, and a 500e that could potentially hit 180mph(+?) would be pretty damn cool. Even if the launch was a tad slower.

 

[gsxr]

Everything has a trade off, and a 500e that could potentially hit 180mph(+?) would be pretty damn cool. Even if the launch was a tad slower.

A six liter motor (380-400hp or more) is needed to crack 180mph. Legend has it the stock 500E runs out of power around 170mph if taller gears are installed (2.65 or 2.47 would be ideal for top speed in a 500E). Shame we can't test this stuff in USA.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Jono, Let us know how you like your 500E with the 2.24. I have thought about doing that same thing for years on end, for the same reason. I thought I had to be the only one in the world fantasizing about a "Low-Performance Modification"...
Thanks,
Klink (from just across town, btw)

I've had enough E420's to know I Like the 2.24 even w/ less torque/Hp. My techs E420/5.0 drives Very nicely even on an open diff. I'm all for fun from stop light to stop light but no one really likes to play w/ Mercedes. All of my fun comes out on the highway, 2nd and 3rd gear stuff.
Once I get it set up we'll need to get together so you can try her out/see what you think..

I wonder if the 2.24 was on a stock ride height car or lowered..and for that matter just how much does an H&R drop help the CD.

I'll report back @ some point on the top end:-D

jono

 

[500AMM]

Could someone here PM me the cell phone number to Jackasic please. I need to get in contact with him.

Arnt

 

[Jackasic]

who is ready fro some diffs? After a few hiccups they are ready to ship. Evidently I need to actually sign the check I send them, oops!

Sent them a list today of where they are going, I am going to have them drop ship most of the most of the diffs. Exception being overseas and a few others. Email me if you have questions.

Brandon

 

[5thscaleracer]

Thank you Brandon I just received my batch of 5 diffs.

Time to install @ leistung Autohaus

 

[500AMM]

http://wavetrac.net/technical.htm

Feind - 5 (complete)
gsxr - 2 (complete)
gerryvz - 1 (complete)
Jono - 4 (paid)
modzona - 1 (complete)
Rouven036 - 2 (complete)
doolar - 1 (paid)
Mejnoon - 1 (paid)
quicksilver500 - 1 (complete)
500 AMM - 3 (complete)
Cannoli - 1 (complete)
m104-AMG - 1 (complete)
==================
Total: 23

deposit paid - 23
complete - 17

Thank you Brandon I just received my batch of 5 diffs.

Time to install @ leistung Autohaus

I don't see 5thscaleracer on the group-buy list, but it appears that some has received their diffs, that's good. The 4 going to Norway are not ready yet. Has anyone else received their diffs?


Arnt

 

[gsxr]

Nothing here yet. Still waiting...

 

[5thscaleracer]

I was not officially part of the group buy basically just made my purchases on the side.

 

[gsxr]

I was not officially part of the group buy basically just made my purchases on the side.

Hmmm. What price did you get?

 

[5thscaleracer]

Group buy price minus shipping since I am local to wavetrac

 

[gsxr]

Group buy price minus shipping since I am local to wavetrac

Cool. Post some photos of the units!! We haven't seen 'em yet!!! Are the C-clips included in the box?

 

[5thscaleracer]

No c clips in the box at this time we have been trying to determine what will work.

There is also open communication with Brandon on this topic. Once a solution is determined the info will be shared.

Here is a picture of the new born baby.

 

[5thscaleracer]

Work is being done by Matt @ Leistung Autohaus.

 

[Jackasic]

You guys are too uptight. 5thscale's order was under my total, this was before he was on the site. His shop is a mile or so from Wavetrac, so he stopped by and picked them up. It has just taken a little longer to get everybody else's order out the door due to shipping. Had to wait on some folks across the pond to get their shipping sorted . Kind of why everybody got a discount, the downside of the GB is that you get to move as a group. Sometimes to the speed of the slowest member.

That being said, they should have shipped yesterday, but I haven't received tracking number yet. Guys in Cali have to have theirs shipped to me so I can ship them back.

I'll look at my notes on the c clip, seems like stock Merc part. I'll dig up the number.

 

[whipplem104]

You want to get the c clip for a w203 axle like a c32 or c55. Then have the stubs turned down a little for the c clip to fit. I tried a few different setups for the quaife diff. The 163 axle clip will work but it binds and has to be modified. The c class clip or many others for this size axle stub is much better. Works like stock. The groove just needs to be dished out for the round clip.

 

[gsxr]

I was able to use the factory 203 clips in the Quaife without having to modify the groove in the axle stubs. It's a tight fit in & out, but works great, zero mods required. I went back & forth with Dana on this during development to make sure the WaveTrac would have the same functionality. I told him that sales would be seriously hurt if everyone had to get their axle stubs modified at a machine shop, when the Quaife didn't need it. He seemed to agree.

 

[5thscaleracer]

Ok so who has a part number of the 203 clip..

And to the rest of the group

Chill out guys! The diff will show up in due time...

 

[gsxr]

Ok so who has a part number of the 203 clip...

203-994-20-35 is the clip. Works with Quaife, hopefully with WaveTrac too... needs to be verified though.

Chill out guys! The diff will show up in due time...

We're chilled. I think the disconnect was that we thought WaveTrac was drop-shipping direct from CA to us, so if you had yours already, ours should have been in transit. Sounds like that was not the case, they are getting shipped to Texas first, then re-shipped out to everyone else.

 

[8899]

Chill out guys! The diff will show up in due time...

But, will the exhaust show up in due time?

 

[5thscaleracer]

That's the clip that was tried and it's too small

 

[gsxr]

That's the clip that was tried and it's too small

Too small for what? The axle stub shaft splines are the same regardless of differential type. They are single-use, the clip will become distorted during installation/removal and should be replaced each time.

 

[5thscaleracer]

But, will the exhaust show up in due time?

Unfortunately no, it's been pushed back due to the following

16v header production
W201/124 track brake kit front and rear
Cla exhaust production
And a couple of bmw projects.

The demand for current models surpasses these older cars at the moment. Development for the w124 products are only being done during slow times.

 

[5thscaleracer]

Too small for what? The axle stub shaft splines are the same regardless of differential type. They are single-use, the clip will become distorted during installation/removal and should be replaced each time.

We measured the groove inside the diff and the half shaft... It looked to be about .5mm smaller.

The clip will go onto the flange but once inserted there might be some slop.

This will be verified when the diff is "officially" installed.

 

[gsxr]

After the flange is inserted, there will be some play where the flange moves in/out maybe 1-2mm. You can adjust this via factory shims to reduce the play. There does not seem to be any issue with 1-2mm play, but if you're picky you can insert, measure, figure out what shim to add, take it apart, add shim, repeat until you have near zero end play.

I'd be careful though, if you have the shim a bit too thick, the clip may not fully expand inside the diff. You can re-use a clip several times during assembly & testing, but when it's all dialed in on both sides, use a fresh clip for final assembly.

EDIT: The above procedure has been proven to work on the Quaife QDF5V. It remains to be seen if the spline dimensions (specifically, length of splines) are basically the same on the WaveTrac. They should be, but, we shall see!

 

[5thscaleracer]

Good tip ok will do

 

[500AMM]

Maybe it's possible to find an aftermarket C-clip, or even cut the ends on a regular seegerring.
This ring does only prevent the shafts from sliding out of the diff.housing in case the wheel hubs are dismounted etc..

 

[gerryvz]

I think all y'all need to cut the Jack-Man some slack here. He's getting these things produced and things never go according to schedule. I've done multiple parts reproductions for the 300SEL 6.3 in my past (including factory-replica skid plates, wheel chocks and emergency suspension riser blocks) and trust me, things never go according to the original schedule. Not to mention the RDMTek LCAs with the modified mounting point in the not too distant past.

I mean, the Wavetracs have been produced and are being shipped as we speak. The Jack-Man is a legit businessman (I've been to his Batcave twice so I've seen his operations) and an honest dude. So let things happen as they will, and everyone will have their diffs in fairly short order.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[jhodg5ck]

+1 for Brandon. He's as straight and square as they come.

FWIW, he's here this w/e while we work on a few other items/bits and pieces..

jono

 

[Jackasic]

We're chilled. I think the disconnect was that we thought WaveTrac was drop-shipping direct from CA to us, so if you had yours already, ours should have been in transit. Sounds like that was not the case, they are getting shipped to Texas first, then re-shipped out to everyone else.

They have been drop shipped, mine batch is set to arrive the 20th. 5thscale picked his up direct from wavetrac, hence the lack of delay.

 

[gsxr]

A large brown truck dropped off presents yesterday afternoon! Woo-hoo! From a quick look they appear to be very nicely made. The molded-foam packing is excellent, much nicer than Quaife's brown paper stuffed in a box. I'll post more detailed photos eventually, next to the Quaife and the stock open diff. As a bonus, the WaveTrac is a bit lighter than the Quaife, ~18.8 lbs for WaveTrac vs ~21.5 lbs for the QDF5V. For reference, the factory open diff is ~13.0 lbs, and I think the factory clutch-type LSD is ~16 lbs - need J-sauce to weigh his factory LSD on a calibrated scale before installing, so we can get a definite number. All numbers are without bearings installed, btw... bearing cages add ~1.3 pounds.

There is a question about gear oil compatibility, please see the paperwork included inside the box. Red Line products (particularly Shockproof oils) are not recommended as they are "too slippery". If you have not yet purchased gear oil, I'd buy the 75W-90 Motul Gear 300 (P/N 100118 for 1 liter bottle) and use that. You'll need two bottles, 1.3L per diff. This is what WaveTrac recommends if you want something beyond the factory-spec dino gear lube.

Click here, then click "FAQ" at the top. Copy/paste below:

What gear oil should I use? [-]
Your new Wavetrac® differential is incredibly durable and will withstand the harshest environments...as long as suitable oil is used. Many customers ask what oil we recommend for use with the Wavetrac® differential. We feel the best answer is:
Use the "factory fill."


In other words, use the gear oil spec that your car manufacturer recommends for your car. The Wavetrac® is compatible with virtually all factory-installed gear oils used today. If you are racing your vehicle, and wish to upgrade the gear oil to improve performance or durability in racing conditions, choose the oil carefully: be aware that some gear oils have additives that are not recommended for use with your Wavetrac®.


Some have friction modifiers designed for limited slip differentials. These modifiers generally increase slipperiness and are intended to reduce clutch disc chatter in conventional clutch-type LSDs. Some gear oils such as Red Line Oil's Shockproof® type have microscopic solid particles in immersion in order to "cushion" transmission components, acting as an extreme pressure agent. The Wavetrac® and all helical gear differentials in general, operate using friction. The friction generated between its internal gears and its housing are what allow this type of differential to function.


Gear oil additives that drastically reduce friction will actually reduce the performance of gear differentials. The internals of the diff get too slick to generate adequate friction - reducing the differential's effectiveness - reducing its ability to drive both wheels.


In conclusion, when using a Wavetrac®:

• Use factory spec oils for your car
• Use Motul Synthetic high performance oils if you wish to upgrade the oil. Please consult Autotech Driveline for recommendations.
• Avoid gear oils with limited slip additives.
• Do NOT use RedLine, Shockproof® or similar gear oils.

Performance Gear Oils we recommend:
[TABLE="width: 400"][TR][TD="bgcolor: #666666"]Requirement [/TD][TD="bgcolor: #666666"]Oil[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="bgcolor: #666666"]75W90[/TD][TD="bgcolor: #666666"]Motul Gear 300 (100118 1l)[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="bgcolor: #666666"]75W140[/TD][TD="bgcolor: #666666"]Motul Gear Competition (101161 1l)[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="bgcolor: #666666, colspan: 2"]Motul Gear Oil is available from Wavetrac dealers [/TD][/TR][/TABLE]Please note that you will void the Wavetrac® Limited Lifetime Warranty if incorrect gear oil is used.

​

 

[Wowek]

The above procedure has been proven to work on the Quaife QDF5V. It remains to be seen if the spline dimensions (specifically, length of splines) are basically the same on the WaveTrac. They should be, but, we shall see!

I have installed with C-clips the QDF5V on the W107 - it is working well.
It is hard to buy aftermaket C-clips, I have found them in refurbishment shop axle joints.

 

[gsxr]

I have installed with C-clips the QDF5V on the W107 - it is working well.
It is hard to buy aftermaket C-clips, I have found them in refurbishment shop axle joints.

Did you use Mercedes clips with the QDF5V? If so, what part number?

If you used non-Mercedes clips, do you have any photos?

 

[Wowek]

Here:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?5234-LSD-to-SLC380-or-SEC380

I used after market ones, I got several dimensions and diameters from local shop. I have tested some to get clearance. If you will not have right diameter of same clip you will have a leaking rear differential problem.
Mercedes is not using C-clips for RWD, maybe A /B class has some but possibly will not fit.

Regards