1993 400e rescue

[natejgreene9871]

Assuming you mean the oil level light, you'll have to trace the harness to the starter / alternator, which also has the wiring for the oil pressure and oil level sensors. If that harness is original (which is likely), the insulation will be coming off... if it's shorting out, that could be the cause of the light. Inspecting / replacing the sensor requires dropping the lower oil pan. The O-ring for the connector at the block is a common leak, but if you drop the pan, a new sensor (which comes with new O-ring) is only like $60 total...

Coolant light: Good possibility of a dead sensor. Check it with an ohm meter. I forget if it should be open or closed when full of coolant. New OE/OEM sensor only, if it needs replacement. I don't think this is likely to be a wiring issue, but check the wires for grins.

So I actually rebuilt my lower/starter harness a few months ago so it should be ok? Maybe the sensor plug came out or something.

Does the oil level light and oil pressure gauge use the same sensor?

 

[gsxr]

So I actually rebuilt my lower/starter harness a few months ago so it should be ok? Maybe the sensor plug came out or something.

Good to hear it's rebuilt!

Does the oil level light and oil pressure gauge use the same sensor?

Nope, totally different sensors.

Oil pressure is the small round can at the bottom of the filter housing. Easy to replace (and if original, it needs replacement - old ones read lower pressure than actual).

Oil level is inside the engine. Have to drain the oil and drop the pan to access it

Search the forum, I think there's a HOW-TO, or at least a few threads discussing both of these.

 

[natejgreene9871]

paint correction came out great! Clay bar, 2 stage buffing, and ceramic coat.

Also new tires.

Been daily driving it all week & running almost perfectly. Between my w123, w201, and r107 this is my new favorite. It really is that good. I have been daily driving a 1984 300D turbo for 10 years so this is quite the upgrade.

Upcoming projects include new odometer gears, radio is being rebuilt and Bluetooth at Becker, tstat display needs replacement, & putting in a new hood pad. Need to repair wiper arm in-out function. Minor stuff.

Also my ac system is empty so I’m sure I will be putting in a new evap before summer….

 

[gsxr]

Evap failures are pretty rare in these cars, despite what the internet may lead you to believe. Make SURE you can confirm 110% that the evaporator is leaking, before you spend 30 hours dismantling the interior...

 

[natejgreene9871]

Fixed my odometer gears and temperature display. Working good, got them on eBay.

Unfortunately one of my rear windows won’t go all the way up. Gets a few inches from the top and stops. Works smoothly otherwise. Something jammed up or broken. I guess I need a new regulator…

Also bought new rotors and pads today, need a brake job.

Going for a road trip next weekend for Mardi Gras. About 8 hour drive. Considering driving this car if I can get the radiator and brakes replaced. Probably should replace my voltage regulator as preventative measure, I have plenty of spare computers in the trunk.
Anything thing else I should bring on a road trip?

 

[TerryA]

@natejgreene9871,
I grew up in “The Big Easy” It’s a great place to visit. It’s been a long time since I have been to a Mardi Gras.

Have Fun BUT Be Careful

 

[natejgreene9871]

So my odometer quit working. Am I supposed to glue the gears onto the shafts? I think the gears are slipping.

 

[gsxr]

The small gear is a press fit but should not require glue. What brand were these gears?

More info here:

HOW-TO: Replacing Odometer Gears | "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles

Moderator edit: See post #59 (click here) for additional step-by-step instructions. I did this job last night. It took about 20 minutes to get the instrument cluster out of the car and would have taken even less had I known I didn't have to unplug everything. All I had to do was unscrew the...

www.500eboard.co

 

[natejgreene9871]

The small gear is a press fit but should not require glue. What brand were these gears?

More info here:

HOW-TO: Replacing Odometer Gears | "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles

Moderator edit: See post #59 (click here) for additional step-by-step instructions. I did this job last night. It took about 20 minutes to get the instrument cluster out of the car and would have taken even less had I known I didn't have to unplug everything. All I had to do was unscrew the...

www.500eboard.co

eBay gears, they were $16.

I wasn’t going to spend $60 for some plastic gears. They look fine, teeth were correct. fit was a tad loose, I roughed up the shaft surface and felt good about it but maybe it is still slipping. Worked good for a few days. Maybe I need a little dab of superglue.

Are all 3 gears press fit? Or do they require glue?

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[gsxr]

From memory only the small gear is a press fit, it should be tight on the shaft. The larger gears slide on/off easily. Read the thread linked above for more details.

$60? Garagistic gears are under $20 delivered within USA (link in thread referenced above). Never heard of "autotechstore". Lots of negative feedbacks from that seller...

 

[gerryvz]

Oil pressure is the small round can at the bottom of the filter housing. Easy to replace (and if original, it needs replacement - old ones read lower pressure than actual).

Oil level is inside the engine. Have to drain the oil and drop the pan to access it

Search the forum, I think there's a HOW-TO, or at least a few threads discussing both of these.

There are separate HOW-TOs on the forum here for each of those repairs, if and when needed.



Oil Level Sensor replacement HOW-TO.

Oil Pressure Sender replacement HOW-TO.

 

[natejgreene9871]

It was a productive day

Update on the odometer: I ended up putting a little drop of superglue on the smallest gear and this solved the slipping issue, it has been several hundred miles since. The replacement gear did not have the brass like the original so i think glue is needed.

A 400e came into the junkyard here in Nashville. It is a 1993 like mine and was a well optioned california car, had orthopedic seats, sun shade, etc, 220K miles. I spent several hours today gathering parts. It makes me sick to see these old cars parted out but it was in pretty rough condition I will admit. Big ticket items like MAF, ETA, and modules were gone unfortunately.









Items I pulled:

• Nice looking brake booster
• monovalve
• auxiliary water pump
• complete becker 1432 radio, tuner, amps, and working antenna
• rear ashtrays-mine are busted
• power seat switches
• knob for power mirrors
• new throttle linkage-mine was broken and ziptied
• all the engine hose clamps
• Other misc plastic interior trim pieces

Also this afternoon:

• I installed a new OEM hood pad with the Teroson glue. I recommend picking the pad up at your local dealer to avoid the crazy $200 shipping fee for large flat items.
• Installed a new coolant level sensor in overflow tank
• dropped the lower oil pan and installed a new oil level sensor -I am now officially DASH LIGHT FREE!!!
• Cut vents into my distributor rotor caps with a dremel- was having the infamous misfire/condensation- oil seals look good though.
• Replaced my voltage regulator. Brushes were very worn down and I didn't have much time before they caused a no-charge situation . This is at 138,000 miles. Compare old vs new bosch. This is good insurance, I replace these preventatively on all my old MB's as they will leave you stranded

Also I have read on this website that the voltage regulator can be replaced with the alternator in place. This works on the M104 but it is not possible on the M119. There is not enough room to remove the rear plastic cap. After struggling for an hour I ended up pulling the belt off and unbolting the alternator, letting it drop down.

Unfortunately earlier this week I had a rear window regulator fail, wouldn't go back up. I installed one of the magnetti marelli aftermarket regulators- the design is cheap and very different from the original but seems to be working fine.


All new brake pads, rotors, and brake hoses will be here on monday. Will put them in this week.

I am trying to get this car to a point where I am comfortable going on long trips, I think I am close- may look at coolant hoses next.

 

[sheward]

The spark plug X tray on the front of the engine and the fan shroud should be taken if intact and possible.

 

[natejgreene9871]

The spark plug X tray on the front of the engine and the fan shroud should be taken if intact and possible.

Fan shroud was cracked and ziptied unfortunately so I left it. The spark plug tray was in good shape. Do these frequently go bad?

 

[sheward]

They get broken quite easily and are NLA I believe. If either upper or lower shroud are intact, they are worth saving. NLA.

 

[gsxr]

Yep - what Drew said. Note that the fuel rail needs to be lifted up to safely extract the X-tray, or it will break when removed. The injectors would be nice spares.

Unless the fan shroud sections are significantly damaged, they are worth saving/repairing. If any of the 3 bolts are seized, you may have to remove the radiator first, unless you have the tools to remove the fan clutch with radiator in place. Oh, and if the radiator is a newer-ish Behr in good condition, that might be worth snagging also - if the yard doesn't charge too much. Ditto for the fan clutch if it's OE Sachs/Horton.

 

[natejgreene9871]

So I mailed in my Becker 1432 to Becker Autosound in NJ.

Unit had no sound and I asked to add Bluetooth. I sent in the head unit, 2 amps, and tuner.

I got the bill today and it was $930

I was expecting this to be expensive, maybe $500-$600 but nearly $1k ???

I’m totally flabbergasted at the cost. I have not paid them yet and honestly wondering if I should just abaondon the radio. I can buy the same rebuilt radio (with Bluetooth) from their eBay store for $450.

Has anyone else experienced this??? I’m just shocked. For that price I could buy a nice new aftermarket head unit, new amps, and all new speakers. I have had them repair radios for me before in the past so I’m a little blind sided.

Thoughts?

 

[gsxr]

Was this a quote, and the work has not yet been performed?

 

[natejgreene9871]

Was this a quote, and the work has not yet been performed?

View attachment 184072

No, the work is complete and they want to be paid. No quote was sent . I mailed it in and they did the work

 

[gerryvz]

In the past, I have received quotes from them after they received/diagnosed the problem, and had to approve the scope/cost of work.

 

[natejgreene9871]

Does this cost seem crazy or is it just me?

 

[gsxr]

In the past, I have received quotes from them after they received/diagnosed the problem, and had to approve the scope/cost of work.

This is what I would have expected: ^^^

$900 is a lot, but it's for all 4 components to be repaired / rebuilt, plus a Bluetooth upgrade. Still - ouch.

 

[gerryvz]

They have likely increased their prices due to inflation, just like everything else. Remember, they are in NJ (near NYC).

Still, it seems high. But I have blown $500+ at Becker for repairs/Bloot installs in the fairly recent past.

 

[natejgreene9871]

even though I’m frustrated they didn’t give me a quote I ended up paying them and it’s on the way. I sure hope it sounds good and is worth it.. who is running the 1432 and are you happy with the sound?

 

[daviduz]

I just read through this entire thread, what an amazing job you did & your car looks fantastic!

 

[natejgreene9871]

overall I’m pretty happy with sound quality on the 1432. I am a little irritated with having to have the cassette inserted for Bluetooth. At that point I may as well use a cassette/aux adaptor. I will eventually probably install one of the cd changer Bluetooth modules I have read about on this website. Seems like a better solution.

Also I am going to install some kind of toggle switch to keep the antenna from going up. I don’t want it up unless I’m listening to radio (rarely).

Looking at either a plain old toggle switch in the ashtray or perhaps a little RF battery controlled remote.

 

[sheward]

I didn't reconect the auto antenna when I upgraded the sound system, even though the HU had capability. I only listen to my phone which is a hardwire input. I really don't want the antenna going up and down for no reason. Less chance of breakage and more life for the next owner.

A switch would be nice. One day I'll come back around to it.

 

[natejgreene9871]

it seems to take a long time for me to get hot air out of my vents. On a 30 degree morning it takes around 5-7 minutes to start getting warm. Also it can take up to 20-30 minutes for my temp gauge to reach 80 degrees on a cold morning.

Bad thermostat ? Bad recirc pump? Is this behavior normal ?

My m117 450sl blows hot air in about 30 seconds from cold start

 

[gsxr]

it seems to take a long time for me to get hot air out of my vents. On a 30 degree morning it takes around 5-7 minutes to start getting warm. Also it can take up to 20-30 minutes for my temp gauge to reach 80 degrees on a cold morning.

Bad thermostat ? Bad recirc pump? Is this behavior normal ?

That's a defective thermostat. Replace with new OE/OEM, Mahle/Behr. Make sure to get the proper early style with 116- part number (link).

My m117 450sl blows hot air in about 30 seconds from cold start

That isn't normal either. Usually takes a few minutes of driving (not idling) to get warm air, but not 30 seconds, unless you live in a tropical climate.

 

[natejgreene9871]

Drove the 400e on a road trip this past week to the beach.

950 miles round trip from Nashville to Gulf Shores AL.

No major issues, car did great. Although I do wish AC was working.

I did loose about half a quart of coolant somewhere, minor but I need to figure that out.
Averaged 23 mpg going about 85mph the whole way. Not bad!

The 400e gearing may suck for off the line acceleration but it does make a pretty good highway cruiser.

 

[Alphasud40]

You have certainly have not been without struggle with both of your projects. Given the choice between a M104 car and a M119 car I think there is no looking back.

 

[natejgreene9871]

You have certainly have not been without struggle with both of your projects. Given the choice between a M104 car and a M119 car I think there is no looking back.

I personally will not own another m104 car. Especially not an early one without comprehensive diagnostics. The MB v8’s are just better all around. No headgasket BS. I’m still trying to get the 300e to run properly, It is still in my driveway.

 

[natejgreene9871]

Gassed up the A/C tonight. System was empty of Freon. Compressor kicks on and it is cooling great.

I found a leak, it was at the receiver drier red sensor. Bubbles coming out of the wires. Did I really get this lucky?

I had already mentally prepared for the evaporator.

If my only leak is this $20 sensor I will be very happy!

 

[Alphasud40]

If you were closer I would love to take a look at it. I’m still thinking about that weird EFI madness.

 

[gsxr]

Gassed up the A/C tonight. System was empty of Freon. Compressor kicks on and it is cooling great.

I found a leak, it was at the receiver drier red sensor. Bubbles coming out of the wires. Did I really get this lucky?

Are you 1000% certain that is refrigerant leaking at the "bubble" shown in your photo? For this to occur, refrigerant would have to travel through the wires. I've never heard of this before. Not saying it isn't possible, just very unusual. @Klink?

I had already mentally prepared for the evaporator.

IMO, the evaporator failures are far less common than the internet leads people to believe. I wouldn't dive into an evap replacement without concrete evidence of failure, i.e. leak-trace dye dripping out the evap/heater box drain tubes on to the transmission, underneath the car.

If my only leak is this $20 sensor I will be very happy!

The red switch (004-820-68-10) is only $20 for the Chinese junk versions (Vemo or Behr). If you replace this, you need to get OE/Genuine, or gamble on ACM and see if the ACM is still a reboxed OE complete with Star logo. Current pricing looks like $30-$40 for ACM, and $40-$45 for OE from RevParts dealers.

Same deal with the pressure safety switch (124-820-83-10) next to the red switch... OE/Genuine only, there's no acceptable aftermarket equivalent. $75-$80 for OE, the junk Behr/Vemo are $10-$15 but they leak and then you get to evacuate/vacuum/recharge for every replacement.

 

[Beater400E]

For this to occur, refrigerant would have to travel through the wires. I've never heard of this before. Not saying it isn't possible, just very unusual.

I have seen multiple instances of coolant migration from coolant level sensors into wiring harnesses in Volkswagen/Audi vehicles. It's actually a known issue. Had it kill an ECM once. Not sure how common it is in this application, but I think it's plausible.

 

[gsxr]

I have seen multiple instances of coolant migration from coolant level sensors into wiring harnesses in Volkswagen/Audi vehicles. It's actually a known issue. Had it kill an ECM once. Not sure how common it is in this application, but I think it's plausible.

This is a known issue with ATF on 722.6 harnesses/TCU, and M278 engine ECU's pulling engine oil through a harness. Definitely plausible, but it's the first I've heard of it with refrigerant!

 

[Alphasud40]

Yea, I remember VW had that issue with both leaking oil pressure and coolant sensors. Would make a mess of things. Seems pretty commonplace now across the board. First time I saw it happen I was amazed. Not as likely to happen on the W124 as there was no use of the weatherpack connectors. Connectors are so weatherproof that any leakage gets pushed through the wires rather than making the connector wet.

 

[natejgreene9871]

Are you 1000% certain that is refrigerant leaking at the "bubble" shown in your photo? For this to occur, refrigerant would have to travel through the wires. I've never heard of this before. Not saying it isn't possible, just very unusual. @Klink?

Yes I am sure. I poured in some UV dye before charging the system. I could see the UV oil bubbling out inside the clear wire connector. If you look closely at my photo you can see a little bit of green in the connector

 

[gsxr]

Wow! That's the first documented case of this, AFAIK (at least on this forum).

Is the red switch original to the car?

 

[natejgreene9871]

Wow! That's the first documented case of this, AFAIK (at least on this forum).

Is the red switch original to the car?

It is mentioned in this video around the 4 minute mark.
I’m sure it is original but I have no idea. Also what tipped me off to the area is the aux fans weren’t kicking on. But they will turn on when I jumper the two wires together so I knew the switch was bad.

 

[Beater400E]

Yeah, that's really good to know. Makes perfect sense.

It is mentioned in this video around the 4 minute mark.
I’m sure it is original but I have no idea. Also what tipped me off to the area is the aux fans weren’t kicking on. But they will turn on when I jumper the two wires together so I knew the switch was bad.

This guy really seems to know his stuff.

 

[natejgreene9871]

Yeah, that's really good to know. Makes perfect sense.


This guy really seems to know his stuff.

I have been following Pierre for years. Bought an om617 engine from him. He has helped me out with numerous problems through the years, a great resource. I recommend you follow him on YouTube.

 

[natejgreene9871]

95% of the time my car idles perfectly. But occasionally I will be sitting at a stop light and it will have a little stumble.

Not enough to kill the engine but close. Happens very infrequently, maybe 2 or 3 times during an hour of stop and go traffic.

I have new rotors, new cut vented caps, plugs, wires, rebuilt eta, no vacuum leaks etc.

I’m thinking the last thing it could be is capacitors in the 1992 LH unit. I visually looked inside the LH and didn’t see any bulging or leaking caps so they should be fine?

Could old caps cause these minor symptoms?

 

[gsxr]

Have you gapped the non-resistor spark plugs at 1.0-1.1mm (not the factory spec of 0.8mm)?

AFAIK, old capacitors in the LH module should not cause what you describe. However new caps would be a good idea in a 1992 module that still has the old brown Frakos.

It's odd that the stumble is enough to almost kill the engine. That sounds more severe than the common hot-idle intermittent hiccup.

 

[Beater400E]

It's odd that the stumble is enough to almost kill the engine. That sounds more severe than the common hot-idle intermittent hiccup.

That's how mine was. It actually did stall once. In the end mine was partly the plugs, but mostly a bad plug wire arcing inside the spark plug well.

Nate, are you running OE Plugs, gapped as Dave mentioned above? I have mine gapped to 1.0mm and it's happy. They come out of the box at 0.8mm, so you do have to actually open the gaps up on them to get them set right.

 

[natejgreene9871]

No I did not gap my plugs but they are the correct Bosch. I can try that.

My spark plug wires are Karyln. I wish I had OE plug wires… even the Karyln were expensive as hell like $300. Lengths were not great, difficult to fit. The OE wires were so tight when I got the car (no grease) that they had been damaged from removal attempts. I’m sure OE would cost a fortune.

 

[doolar]

Love this thread! Such a beautiful car.

 

[natejgreene9871]

Changed out the ac pressure switch. Easy to get to, took 10 minutes. I used the aftermarket behr/hella for $25. If it leaks again it’s easy enough to replace with genuine and I have a vac pump and everything.

Also poured some UV dye in and charged with envirosafe refrigerant. Been blowing cold for 3 days and working well. Vacuum pods seem to actuate properly for vent flaps, aux fan now coming on correctly.


I let the car run for a hour in the garage. Checked the condensate puddle under the car with the UV flashlight. No signs of evap leak !

This car has lived its whole life in Georgia and Tennessee so I wouldn’t be surprised if the evap had already been replaced at some point. AC is not optional here and used probably 6 months out of the year.

Cautiously optimistic

 

[natejgreene9871]

How do these air cleaner nuts go on? Flat side up or flat side down?