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Convert e500 to e60 ?????
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Yes, it is possible.
There are several ways to do this:
1) Get on the Euro EPC and go to 124.036, then Engine and make a list of all the HWA numbers you'll need. Once you have the part numbers go to parts.com and get prices. Some of them you'll need to go to a dealer in Europe. Add another $6-8K for suspension and a few extra dollars for the trans mods. Problem is that you'll find many of the parts NLA. Then search here and ebay.de. and ebay.at, after a year or two you just might find all the stuff you need.
or
2) Call Vaeth, they are the people who actually build the engines for AMG. I suspect that $25K might do it. But that doesn't include the electronics which would add another $10K or so I bet.
or, by far the easiest way.
3) Have the Sultan of Brunei adopt you, he has a few so I am told. You might get lucky and get a SL720 thrown in too.
Kind Regards,
Ron
There are several ways to do this:
1) Get on the Euro EPC and go to 124.036, then Engine and make a list of all the HWA numbers you'll need. Once you have the part numbers go to parts.com and get prices. Some of them you'll need to go to a dealer in Europe. Add another $6-8K for suspension and a few extra dollars for the trans mods. Problem is that you'll find many of the parts NLA. Then search here and ebay.de. and ebay.at, after a year or two you just might find all the stuff you need.
or
2) Call Vaeth, they are the people who actually build the engines for AMG. I suspect that $25K might do it. But that doesn't include the electronics which would add another $10K or so I bet.
or, by far the easiest way.
3) Have the Sultan of Brunei adopt you, he has a few so I am told. You might get lucky and get a SL720 thrown in too.
Kind Regards,
Ron
I visited Väth a few years ago in Germany and spoke with them about the costs of a 6-liter conversion. The $25K figure is about right in terms of what they quoted me, plus shipping to and from Germany of a donor motor.
I am sure this job could be done for $10-15K by a qualified machine shop or tuner on this side of the pond (RENNtech excluded).
Cheers,
Gerry
I am sure this job could be done for $10-15K by a qualified machine shop or tuner on this side of the pond (RENNtech excluded).
Cheers,
Gerry
RENNtech may still do the conversion, roughly $30k USD turn-key. RBTech in SoCal may do it for $20-$25k, maybe.
I have yet to see anyone actually do a 6.0L conversion on any 500E/E500 in the ~10 years that I've been following 500E's... lots of questions, but no follow-through. (Again, I don't count Talbir as he never finished his project.)
I have yet to see anyone actually do a 6.0L conversion on any 500E/E500 in the ~10 years that I've been following 500E's... lots of questions, but no follow-through. (Again, I don't count Talbir as he never finished his project.)
That's not bad..when I asked a couple of years ago..(falicon maybe..??) it was around 7-8K. Any qty requirement on that crank order?
I think Hartmut would be reluctant..they have some pistons on the shelf but that's about it. Everything else they would need to have made..again..plus, the $$ in tuning the new stuff kills the profit margin in building 6L 119's..
jono
Well, the bearings are two Totally different widths so Creative offset grinding will be required not only to increase stroke but also make the narrow/late 970 bearings ride properly...which is what I hypothesized looking @ the two cranks.
So, yes..you Could use a stock 117 crank but the guy grinding it is going to have to be Damn Good.
jono
So, yes..you Could use a stock 117 crank but the guy grinding it is going to have to be Damn Good.
jono
I hear that for the first time Jono. I know for a fact that the AMG 6L crank has a 117..... part Number (from the 560 engine) and that only the counterweights are diameter reduced - not more not less.
I know that the bearing sized are reduced on later M119 engines, but when you take a closed deck 974 block it should be no issue. Also having written with Bernard who builds these engines, he never said anything with the bearings. He said M117 560 crank, counterweights reduced and thats it.
A 560crank in good condition you can get for 500€ off ebay or in the W126 Forums sometimes.
The pricetag for the counterweight reducing + crank balancing was ~500€ at a engine shop i once quoted price from them for IIRC
Boring, Honing and silica polishing was 490€ at the same shop.
Pistons (Woessner) with special Alusil coating and rings are 300€/piece
Rods you take the 5L ones.
Headgaskets custom made at Elring were 200ish €/piece if you take a set of 3 from each side
So for the core "material" alone (if you could sell the other 4 headgaskets) you are more in the 5000€ range. Sure, with "little" stuff like for instance 32 new "tappets", chain, tensioner, replace all ignition stuff and all sensors, camshaft regrind, intake manifold/heads portmatched, all other gaskets, etc you get up to the 10.000€ mark (When you do it all alone - no labour costs).
The question is still, if its worth it...
I thought it is easier/cheaper to swap engines from 5.0 to 6.0 rather than modify displacement and camshafts of the old one. I guess there is an opportunity to get a 6.0 engine in Japan (used/new AMG or other). Plus you need those ECU chips or LH whatever the name. However, the very least price for parts engine+chips would be $10 000 for used.
Moreover, in my opinion that person who really has an idea about 124036, swap of the engine and really serious to do it will ask questions "What is nice place to obtain parts?", "What should I start from?" "Does anybody have an experience and what were issues (NLA parts bla bla )"
Questions like "is it possible " makes me think that person barely have an idea about 124036 and M119.
IMHO
Moreover, in my opinion that person who really has an idea about 124036, swap of the engine and really serious to do it will ask questions "What is nice place to obtain parts?", "What should I start from?" "Does anybody have an experience and what were issues (NLA parts bla bla )"
Questions like "is it possible " makes me think that person barely have an idea about 124036 and M119.
IMHO
I don't have a closed deck 974, I've only bumped the closed/tall deck 960's as they Literally are a drop in crank wise from the 117.
The late 970's have a MUCH narrower bearing..the slop would be untenable and would Never work...but again, a good crank shop could Make it work. It is a Heavier crank compared to the stock 970 bit..
When we do the 960's we have to drop the pin height about 240 or 215 thou..I forget exactly right this moment. Weisco makes our pistons, swaintech does a PC9 coating on the skirt...a trick we learned from Lindsay Racing.
I imagine I'll get a 974 one of these days to play with!
jono
The late 970's have a MUCH narrower bearing..the slop would be untenable and would Never work...but again, a good crank shop could Make it work. It is a Heavier crank compared to the stock 970 bit..
When we do the 960's we have to drop the pin height about 240 or 215 thou..I forget exactly right this moment. Weisco makes our pistons, swaintech does a PC9 coating on the skirt...a trick we learned from Lindsay Racing.
I imagine I'll get a 974 one of these days to play with!
jono
Are you considering doing this to the 6.0 you now having your track rat
Jelmer should make a sticky about this topic, since it seems to come up from n00b's once or twice per year, with the same answers every time...
This concludes my contribution to this thread. ;-)
Love the subject, though.
First, get a crashed 2012/13 Camero with an ls engine, hire your local yahoo to make custom engine mounts etc, and drop in the motor and while he is at it have home drop in the 6 speed tranny you splashes wanted. And be prepared for the prurists to say, "what the point, it ain't a Mercedes anymore." to which you can say, "no, it's not a Porsche any more." by the way, doesn't the m117 have a different ring gear/flex plate bolt pattern Jono?
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How about getting a v8 out of an sl60 and selling it it the 500e.
Yes new 6.0 is not cost effective. I know we're one sits which and oil consumption problems
Wonder if tabir would part w his project.
The 6.0 rods are counter bored w special bolts and the block is clearances.
Every thing I have read doesn't mention off- set grinding the m117 crank.
Maybe a back mounted turbo or abrex kit would be more cost effective.
Wonder if tabir would part w his project.
The 6.0 rods are counter bored w special bolts and the block is clearances.
Every thing I have read doesn't mention off- set grinding the m117 crank.
Maybe a back mounted turbo or abrex kit would be more cost effective.
For posterity sake, I want to source an M117 crank or two.
Do all M117 560 series cars have the same crank?
Any particular year or part number that I have to look for?
Thanks.
Do all M117 560 series cars have the same crank?
Any particular year or part number that I have to look for?
Thanks.
Niibe in Japan bought one of the two NOS motors, and yes, he was disappointed to only get ~315hp (crank) on the dyno with the 5.0 LH module... then he sourced the 6.0L module and boom, 380+hp.
There are at least 2 different casting numbers. However I don't know the difference between them, nor if both will work in an M119 conversion.
Anyone know what the diff is between the 5.6 crank castings?
I will shortly do a first try and fit the 117 crank in the 400E block I have, I guess someplaces a feeler blade have to be used to determine
the play and see why or if the counterweights interfear, as they were cut, so it says in the E60 bible.
the play and see why or if the counterweights interfear, as they were cut, so it says in the E60 bible.
Does anyone know which casting number is the supposed crank part number that was used in the E60?
There are at least 2 different casting numbers. However I don't know the difference between them, nor if both will work in an M119 conversion.
Anyone know what the diff is between the 5.6 crank castings?
What is considered Late stuff for an M117 crank?
1988-1991?
or?
1988-1991?
or?
You can't get the "wide" bearings anymore, right? Not as wide as the one below....
Attachments
anyone want an m117 crank to have as a conversation piece, a pipe dream, an artifact, a talisman of sorts?
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Why is it that you only chase the late stuff?
Well,
I got a later m117 crank in very good condition.
Now I need to get a .036 crank and start comparing the two.
Are all 5.0 M119 cranks the same? Or is there a difference depending on the year or block they are in?
I got a later m117 crank in very good condition.
Now I need to get a .036 crank and start comparing the two.
Are all 5.0 M119 cranks the same? Or is there a difference depending on the year or block they are in?
So what's the numbers? This is my crank, don't know year, or car.
Thats's my crank, and seems to be same number. If I remember correctly my crank was taken from -89 560 sec.
5->6 conversion
-Crank 100..500$
-Pistons 1800$
-Original connecting rods should fit since there is room to lower compression height.
-Custom head gasket (101mm), ??? should not be that expensive in US, at least Cometic has done those for M117.
-Bore engine block to 100mm, 1000...1500$, Porche guys know local prices
, Places where you can re-bore alusil block are not very common, here in Finland is just 2 option.-then all stuff you need when rebuilding the engine.
I am quite sure that it is possible to build 6.0L M119 under 10000$
New crank:
http://www.online-teile.com/mercede....html?MODsid=e546a0cd3986601f781827ab22f1f95c
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I am quite sure that it is possible to build 6.0L M119 under 10000$
Yes, probably, there are a couple of paths to take, make new head gaskets os oringing the block, 5.6-5.7 liter with oem pistons or 100mm custom or at the end of the Rainbow AMG KS- Mahle 100mm, oem rods or aftermarket custom. I am convinced that a $5000 limit could be achieved if 5.65 liter is done, with the help of an
E50 motor, heads and intake manifold, upper and lower (they really differ) The most important part in this drill, is the crank where the torque is hiding. Roger
Yes, probably, there are a couple of paths to take, make new head gaskets os oringing the block, 5.6-5.7 liter with oem pistons or 100mm custom or at the end of the Rainbow AMG KS- Mahle 100mm, oem rods or aftermarket custom. I am convinced that a $5000 limit could be achieved if 5.65 liter is done, with the help of an
E50 motor, heads and intake manifold, upper and lower (they really differ) The most important part in this drill, is the crank where the torque is hiding. Roger
An R129 SL60 engine (M119.972) from a 1993-95 500SL/SL500 (129.067 chassis) is a direct bolt-in to any E500E, although some brackets/etc may need to be swapped around.
If the SL60 engine is from a 96-98 SL500 (M119.982) this is NOT a direct bolt-in, but it can be converted using parts from the E500E. Basically needs to be converted back to distributor ignition, and all 4 camshaft sprockets have to be swapped, and the intake swapped (and port-matched).
Either way, you also need a 6.0L LH module... I have one for sale if the donor engine doesn't include the correct module.
Price tag?
Some info here - short answer = not cheap!!
Convert e500 to e60 ????? | High-Performance Modifications
Hi everyone ,, I have E500 1994 and I was thinking if it was possible to convert the engine to the 6.0 AMG e60 engine and if yes what are the parts a have to change
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Moderator edit - Moved posts to the E60 conversion thread.
I can't recall anyone posting details about doing this in the last 20 years, but yes you can absolutely upgrade to a 6.0L engine. The easiest method is to buy a used AMG 6.0L motor, like the one @TimL had for sale recently, and swap that in. Otherwise you can contact tuners like Vath or RENNtech about custom building a 6L, or Blue Ridge MB. Including installation, don't be surprised if the estimates are in the $40k USD range for a turn-key conversion. That's for the engine only.
The E60 springs, front swaybar, front struts, and rear hydrolegs have been NLA for years. You can get reproduction springs and front swaybar, but not the dampers. There are higher-performing aftermarket dampers available if desired.
Also non-engine info here:
Which AMG parts make an AMG E60, an AMG E60, with exception to the M119 6.0? | W124 AMG & Tuner Cars
Ok - so I have understood over the years that not all E60s came specced the same, particularly when dealing with post delivery conversions and different markets. Some even had zero mid other than the engine upgrade and some of those cars have been documented by owners on this forum. There have...
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