OWNER DrP **High Mileage E500**

[DrP]

Another discussion topic : electronics in the E500, in general. My background is E.E. so my detailed knowledge of what can fail in semiconductors led me to deactivate what I can. ABS/ASR is not active (you do not need them in SoCal anyway and I do not ski)...the main control unit was replaced @ 460k. Electronics tend to be temperature sensitive (especially to rapid changes). I always switch off AC before I start to avoid power overload and current spikes. Same for the aux fans which suck a lot of juice. Unbelievable within the 13y I have that car I never changed the headlight bulbs. All other bulbs , yes but not those. On the other side I am on my third alternator.

Just curious about other experiences

The other thing that amazes me is the cooling system, I mentioned that already...I drive at least half of the year with the temp gauge at a solid 100C, up to 107C or so when the aux fans kick in. It cost me (apparently) two water pumps but other than that the cooling system is original, hoses and all. Although they might have tested the engine in Death Valley (if you want to see a new unpublished Mercedes, go there..I saw three test convois there over time as I used to go hiking there every two months or so) the cooling system is clearly designed for mid-European 55F weather, not our 90's here.

Speaking of Death Valley : I was there 5 y ago, the only time I ever drove there in August. Don't do that again, the fans were working continuously....when I stopped @ Badwater I was afraid to cut the engine.....
No AC on and it felt like a pizza oven. I made a discovery although : when you approach Badwater (282ft below sea level) you see that for every 100ft of altitude loss you gain 2F in temperature, nearly constant. When I stopped the digital temp gauge below the odometer was stuck @ 127F...the background is that the gauge has obviously an 8bit AD converter ranging from -127F to +127 (2 to the power of 8 is 256)...I was sure it was hotter than 127 but the gauge had maxed out.

I have to write Mercedes Benz to fix that.....

Current mileage 566000, no issues

 

[Glen]

I bought my E500 in August, 2003, for $21,500. The same month that 500Ecstasy commenced operations. I still owned my 300SEL 6.3 and 450SEL 6.9 at that time, and also my 560SEC, which I purchased in August, 2002.

The real oldsters oldman here would be folks like Glen, Cannoli, Need2Speed, the Jimbonian, Afshin (MBZ 500E), and a few others.

Cheers,
Gerry

April or maybe it was May of 2001 for me.

 

[Jelmer]

That's quite a story about the cooling system, and kinda makes my fear of overheating unjustified Thanks for sharing, now if I ever see the needle go up a bit more than expected I won't jump into panic mode!

Why is your ABS inactive, by the way? I can understand ASR, although I personally wouldn't recommend disabling it, but ABS can be a lifesaver. Then again, I read somewhere tongueout that you drive more than a few miles a year, so I'm assuming proper car control, and possibly the ability to brake with a pumping action better than ABS can...

 

[8899]

Nice to hear that someone else follows similar behaviour patterns as I do....I ALWAYS shut everything down in the car before switching off the ignition. Stereo, HVAC, wipers, lights, etc. My wife makes fun of me for doing this, but hey...perhaps I'm OCD

 

[Jelmer]

Meh, when a starter motor draws ~200Amps, I doubt the few amps of the stereo or lights make any difference And besides, although the AC compressor is belt-driven I can't imagine it's actually trying to work when cranking the engine...

 

[bing]

Nice to hear that someone else follows similar behaviour patterns as I do....I ALWAYS shut everything down in the car before switching off the ignition. Stereo, HVAC, wipers, lights, etc. My wife makes fun of me for doing this, but hey...perhaps I'm OCD

Yeah, perhaps. More of a habit and sometimes part of growing with Dad telling you that you must switch off the A/C before ignition off or let the engine warm up first before switching on and all that shamozal .. All a Myth really IMO.. But hey, each to their own as they say.

 

[Stevester 500E]

Mine has 253K miles and it purrs like a kitten. . . . .

 

[DrP]

my ABS is inactive as it deactivates s.th. in the main electronics unit. What it does I do not know and do not want to know but the car had issues with idling and starting . Yanking out the ABS relay eliminated the problem...don't ask don't tell. My security system on the roads is old-fashioned : do not drive on snow (I did that enough when young) and keep distance, distance, distance. I am not the last to break when encountering a jam (or 'Stau") on I5 or I15. When living in CA you expect the unexpected anyway like ladders on the left lane or cooling boxes on the middle one....just look out

btw I bought my car in 1999 (79k miles) from the owner of a chain in New England that sells Christmas decoration during the whole year..he drove a lot between RI, MA, CT, VT , NH and ME...so the car knows our beautiful country very well. Still have to show her Alaska, though...and drive her down thru Baja Ca to La Paz and Todos Santos...there is always tomorrow

 

[samiam44]

What relay did you remove for the ABS? When you state you replaced the main computer @ 460k miles- was that the base module?


Michael

 

[DrP]

there is a relay in the electric corner (passenger side, were the battery used to be in former times) that is responsible for the ABS/ASR control. Pulling them out leaves the brakes functional as normal, no ABS/ASR of course.

The main engine control module ( I believe it's called CAN module????) was replaced @ 460k as it was suspected to be the culprit in the random ASR switch ons where you loose control over the gas pedal and the engine goes into idle at any speed. Very annoying to put it mildly. Exchanging that module ($2k but worth it) had two effects : the cut outs became more seldom (and nobody could explain to me why) and the car ran (much) better. After replacing the idle switch behind the gas pedal the car never went into this mode again. I got this from guy named Steve in San Jose (PAC auto care on 4th st.) who really knows the W124 in and out. His main guy Joe drives a 400E with >300k miles. They know what they are doing and he was the only one who told me to replace the idle switch. .

 

[Tkiwalajr]

new update : I drove now 10k miles with the new valve train. Mostly the ticking is off but sometimes I can hear it again. I read on German E500/W124 V8 related websites that other owners had a similar problem, the ticking would erratically appear or disappear even after repair of all the tubes/chain/lifters. Maybe they just have to be roughed in, we'll see. I have the 540k inspection coming up and they will look at that phenomenon again. More pressing is an oil leak somewhere on the right side (maybe the valve gaskets) that causes oil to drip on the exhaust and giving the car the appearance as if it were on fire. It might be the oil filter (where the pressure sensor sits) housing as well as it is next to the exhaust. Anybody who had a similar "smoking" problem, let me know. And yes, I will exchange the brake fluid. My old mechanic rather recommended not doing it because it would eventually ruin the brake cylinder (he has seen that in other cars) as the brake fluid system is usually rather tight and impenetrable. I never had a brake fluid loss. But the brakes are "soft" so new fluid probably helps.....update will follow

Dr. P, was this oil leak coming from the engine area or the exhaust? Thanks in advance.

 

[DrP]

Dr. P, was this oil leak coming from the engine area or the exhaust? Thanks in advance.

the oil was dripping from the enclosre where the oil pressure sensor sits (passenger side of engine) and was blown directly toward the the spot where the exhaust curves down next to the transmission. The car is black down there, all burned up. Fix : new oil pressure sensor housing. Watch the cable there, if it touches the engine block somewhere your intstrument cluster shuts down (all of the gauges). This wire needs to be well isolated and securely tucked away so that there is no possibility of a short

 

[DrP]

another question to the forum: regarding the fuel gauge. Mine has a sometimes very volatile behavior, i.e. it dances around two or three values like a dog's tail. My wife says the car has now early signs of Parkinson's. It's independent of fill status. Other times it's stable. I found that very same curious signature on my old '78 450SL where it's so bad that the only reliable fuel consumption measurement is actually the daily mileage counter (to be reset when filling up).

I do not know if it's the sender or the gauge itself. I doubt it has to do something with mileage, I think it's more the age. Just curious if anybody else sees this as we are all approaching or already crossed the 20y mark (where things are getting really old) with our cars and if there is an easy fix for that? I do not depend on the fuel gauge (I fill up between 400-450 miles anyway) but the dancing gauge hand is a little irritating

 

[gsxr]

Yes, I've had that exact problem on a couple of older W124's. Once it was the sender, once it was the gauge. I think it's more likely to be the sender. If you're electrically inclined, you could do some testing by unplugging the connector at the sender in the trunk, and inserting fixed resistors to simulate a particular reading. If the needle is steady with the resistor in place over a day or two, that makes it very likely the sender is the problem. The 90L sender is a dealer-only item, $188 from parts.com:
http://www.parts.com/parts/index.cf...hText=1245420304&action=oePartSearch&siteid=2

If the needle still jumps all over with the fixed resistor in place, the gauge is bad. You don't want to know how much a new gauge is (click here after sitting down). Good used gauges are very difficult to find. It's possible to re-calibrate a 'standard' gauge to work properly with the 90L sender, if you need one and can't find an original gauge, drop me a line. I have a spare standard gauge that I'd sell, and I can re-calibrate it for the 90L sender.

 

[edcarls]

Same fuel gauge needle behavior happened recently to my 94E320. I cleaned the sending unit with contact cleaner and now the needle works fine (steady.) The float is inside the sender's cylinder that slides on a center post with thin wires on two sides. I cleaned the two wires and the contacts attached to the float. Also, I cleaned the sender's connection to the harness.

Hope this helps.

 

[gerryvz]

I have had this problem intermittently over the past few years on my E500, but not recently. 95% of the time it's the sender that needs to be cleaned, as edcarls mentioned. Generally you can get away with a thorough cleaning of the sender rather than having to replace it.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[DrP]

another thing : I had an oil change yesterday and going back on I5 @ 70mph I heard a loud noise and saw something flying off in the back mirror. It turned out to be the plastic cover under the right side of the engine which needs to be removed when draining the oil. The covers are several pieces, a large center one (which stayed on) and the ones covering the wheel cases. It ripped off the forward front cover (toward the fog lights) in the right fender as well. As this happened now for the second time to me I would like to encourage everybody to talk square to the guy who removes the screws for an oil change there and puts them back on. Attention to this detail is crucial. It might be a matter of frequent usage (of course I had 65 oil changes so far with this car) or of age but watch out, the .036 has a tendency to get rid of its "underwear". Did that happen to anybody else as well?

 

[KarlC]

DrP it was me on the I-5 fwy headed to LA (Auto show) that waved you down to say hello while driving 70mph

Good to see you and your car on the road !!

 

[195910]

Yeah, the lower panelling were cracked when I first got the car, centre piece tore in half while doing 220km/h.. the left side got ate up by the FL tire when the rusty nut holding the piece broke.

Just make sure they are all fastened properly, don't go cheap with the screws/nuts !

 

[DrP]

DrP it was me on the I-5 fwy headed to LA (Auto show) that waved you down to say hello while driving 70mph

Good to see you and your car on the road !!

Hi Karl

yes I saw you, thanks for alerting me ! You were driving in an illegal car though (i.e. non-.036):razz:

We were going to downtown L.A., then the Getty and then to friends up in Victorville and back....400 miles, ok for a Saturday....

 

[Jelmer]

Have you *FINALLY* (hehe) passed 1 million km? I.e., 621,504.039776258545680546923555 miles?

Also, if you're filling up after 400-450 miles, how can that be? I mean, that calculates to 720km, I haven't been able to get to 600 before filling up (refill warning light usually lights up after 520-550km)...

 

[gsxr]

Have you *FINALLY* (hehe) passed 1 million km? I.e., 621,504.039776258545680546923555 miles?

Also, if you're filling up after 400-450 miles, how can that be? I mean, that calculates to 720km, I haven't been able to get to 600 before filling up (refill warning light usually lights up after 520-550km)...

On freeway trips or commuting (minimal "city" driving), my 500's will go more than 400mi per tank... only passed 450 miles per tank a couple of times though. A heavier foot will reduce economy of course!

 

[Jelmer]

And how much gallons of fuel do you fill up, afterwards?

 

[DrP]

I fill up (in summer) always around 450 miles and squeeze 20 gal in there (that's when the light comes on), i.e. 22.5mpg, this has been constant forever. In winter it's more 400-420 miles. The reserve goes at least 45 miles (been there done that in West Texas on I10, Belton to Van Horn, trip odometer was 495miles @110F outside.....that's the famous stretch were 80mph are legal, so 87 cruise control is ok...I never saw police out there, border patrol yes but not highway police)

I think my gas consumption is based on the fact that out of the 150miles a day I drive 145 without traffic lights or even touching the brake. I live 2 miles away from I15 and work 1 mile away from I5. No excessive traffic jams there either ( I go early and come late). You touch the brake you waste energy...

I cannot remember that I ever drove 400miles in town, light to light, but then I would probably not reach even 400 either.

 

[Jelmer]

Hmm. I do drive a lot of traffic jams and town traffic, that might explain my worse mileage. And I kinda have a heavy foot, as well...

Might be that the recent repairs also reduce consumption slightly, because it's quite a large difference with you (17.9 mpg)

 

[gsxr]

My 1994 E500 freeway fuel economy with stock wheels/tires is 22mpg at best. With fat 18" wheels & tires it's a bit over 20mpg at best.

Around town, that drops to 16-18mpg, depending on the mix of city+freeway.

1992 engines will get roughly 5% lower fuel economy. And, driving in colder climates will reduce fuel economy .Jelmer, your 17.9 is right on target, especially in winter.

 

[TerryA]

You guys with the great MPGs must drive downhill all of the time. I have been keeping track of my mpg for the last 16,287 miles and my average mpg right now is 16.89 mpg.
Mostly commuting 65 to 70 miles per day on CA freeways. I have yet to see 20 mpg under any circumstance. I have hit 19+ mpg a few times. To get that I fill up in Orange County
get right on a freeway and drive to Palm Springs and back. That's about 200 miles. I have to get off of the freeway and fill up right away and maybe I will see 19 mpg.

Part of the problem is I can't seem to drive much below 80 mph but who cares. Driving my 500E is more about fun than seeing how much mpg I can get.
I don't think I have ever gotten thru a tank of gas without mashing the peddle to the floor a few times.

 

[Jelmer]

Mine's a '93, without WOT enrichment, I think, so do I still have the 5% penalty? Also, my mpg number was the same in summer, though it seems to be gently climbing up with all the things I have repaired

I don't think I have ever gotten thru a tank of gas without mashing the peddle to the floor a few times.

Sounds *very* familiar! Haha The sound of that roar is simply irresistible.

 

[DrP]

I agree with Terry that I am abusing the car by driving it like a Prius owner. The background is simple : @ 40000 miles/year a difference between 18mpg and 22mpg results in approx. 500 gallons/year. This means > $2k. These savings essentially pay for maintenance and standard repairs (plus some Belgian beer, so I am utterly motivated to drive decently

Still stepping on it from time to time is irresistible...as you know

 

[bing]

. Driving my 500E is more about fun than seeing how much mpg I can get.
I don't think I have ever gotten thru a tank of gas without mashing the peddle to the floor a few times.

Agree!

I think it's more of curiosity that brings this MPG figures discussion from time to time but deep down, I'm sure a lot would agree, who cares ! I always say to timewasters and dicks, "You're driving a twenty+ years old V8 and you wanna know how economical it is? C'ammon !" I get the same question all the time on my 600 and I normally say, "don't know but it's not bad!"

 

[Jelmer]

I am abusing the car by driving it like a Prius owner

Fantastic quote!

So what mileage are you at, now?

 

[bing]

Mine's a '93, without WOT enrichment, I think, so do I still have the 5% penalty

you sure about without WOT? If so, prolly no penalty but you're missing some horses!

 

[DrP]

as of this morning 577455 miles (= 929321 km) ...next year around the same time the (imaginary) km rollover might happen (around 621500), we'll see...a lot of things can happen

 

[bing]

DrP !

 

[gerryvz]

My "lifetime" MPG on my E500, over 9+ years and nearly 50,000 miles, is 17 MPG. That's in mixed city and freeway driving, most of it using a 1992 LH unit.

The highest MPG I have ever hit, on a per-tank basis, have been: 22.913 MPG, 20.216 MPG, 20.752 MPG, 23.228 MPG, 20.497 MPG, 20.639 MPG, 21.545 MPG and a few just barely over 20 MPG.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Jelmer]

you sure about without WOT? If so, prolly no penalty but you're missing some horses!

Oh, shut up!

My highest has been 21.216mpg, measured over 3678 liters.

 

[DrP]

I think the only valuable measure is a longtime mpg measurement as filling up the tank is impredictable in itself. As I hate gas stations (some live entirely off me I think) I try to fill up only when the light comes on. This means btw that the fuel pump has to work harder sucking out of a nearly empty tank, this might account for the fact that I am on pump#4 as of now. So it's not recommended necessarily. But filling up is tricky too as you know. I always top off which means that the last 3 gallons have to be poured in slowly (creating a nuisance at the station when others are waiting) as 3 gallons are ~70miles. That adds up. My highest single mileage was 25 but I discount that as I might not have filled it up entirely.

 

[bing]

Oh, shut up!

LOL !! enjoy hammering your car this weekend, mate!

 

[gerryvz]

Dr.P --

Yes I am the same way - I always top off until I can see gas in the neck of the fuel tank. And I only fill up when the yellow triangle lights up. That way my mileage is as consistent as possible from tank to tank. I do this with all of my cars.

I usually don't have problems with people waiting in line behind me, but if I do, that's their problem not mine. While I don't lollygag while filling up, I take my time to top off without spilling, collect my receipt, etc.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

I also run the tank into reserve every time, and top off when filling up. You get the most accurate data when you keep the same procedure. I track every tank in a spreadsheet. It's hard to get a long-term "street driving" average because both my 500's get a lot of dragstrip use during the summer, which makes the MPG dip in the 14-15 range.

Running the tank low doesn't hurt the fuel pumps any, they are located below the tank and are gravity fed. More likely that time and mileage has killed the previous pumps. There are two pumps, btw... make sure you only use Bosch or OE as replacements, not the cheapy no-name Chinee pumps that are commonly available!

 

[bing]

I always top off until I can see gas in the neck of the fuel tank.

So how do you manage to do this? I know that in the US your gas pump nozzles have this accordion rubber thingy that wraps around the neck, so you can't actually see if it's brimming over (an American safety thing in case someone sues for inhaling gasoline vapor or some sort I guess).. Or do you guys just force this thingy back so u can see? I find it irritating when I fill up there as the tank never really gets full if you rely on the click, which I may allow to click 3 times and that's it. Here in Europe I wait till it's almost spilling out - and yes sometimes cars waiting get annoyed and make silly remarks, "oi, mate is that a Plane your filling up?"

 

[gsxr]

Bing, it depends on the pump. Some don't have the accordion thingy, some do. If they do have it, as you said, you force it back with your hand so you can see. Oregon is an interesting state where all gas stations are "full service", i.e. someone pumps the gas for you. That can make for a bit of variation between fillups. I like pumping my own gas.

 

[bing]

I think the only valuable measure is a longtime mpg measurement as filling up the tank is impredictable in itself. As I hate gas stations (some live entirely off me I think) I try to fill up only when the light comes on. This means btw that the fuel pump has to work harder sucking out of a nearly empty tank, this might account for the fact that I am on pump#4 as of now. So it's not recommended necessarily. But filling up is tricky too as you know. I always top off which means that the last 3 gallons have to be poured in slowly (creating a nuisance at the station when others are waiting) as 3 gallons are ~70miles. That adds up. My highest single mileage was 25 but I discount that as I might not have filled it up entirely.

I also run the tank into reserve every time, and top off when filling up. You get the most accurate data when you keep the same procedure. I track every tank in a spreadsheet. It's hard to get a long-term "street driving" average because both my 500's get a lot of dragstrip use during the summer, which makes the MPG dip in the 14-15 range.

My "lifetime" MPG on my E500, over 9+ years and nearly 50,000 miles, is 17 MPG. That's in mixed city and freeway driving, most of it using a 1992 LH unit.

The highest MPG I have ever hit, on a per-tank basis, have been: 22.913 MPG, 20.216 MPG, 20.752 MPG, 23.228 MPG, 20.497 MPG, 20.639 MPG, 21.545 MPG and a few just barely over 20 MPG

Oh..You guys really CARE about MPGs, sorry for being presumptuous

 

[gsxr]

LOL. I think you need to own an M120 before you really have to stop caring about fuel economy!!

 

[500AMM]

Oh..You guys really CARE about MPGs, sorry for being presumptuous

+1 on that bing.

My Limited uses 0,7 l on 10km - the additional consumption is hobby.
(never checked the SuperMerc)

 

[gerryvz]

More likely that time and mileage has killed the previous pumps. There are two pumps, btw... make sure you only use Bosch or OE as replacements, not the cheapy no-name Chinee pumps that are commonly available!

Not to mention the crap-tastic 10% ethanol gasoline we get. Amazon.com has new Bosch pumps for around $75-80 each right now, big sale !!

 

[DrP]

Happy new year 2013 to everybody on the forum ! I wish everyone no accidents and only minor repairs!

Speaking of it I need to do one as the car was standing now for two weeks (I know I should not do that) and promptly something broke. The cars starts normal but when it's warm and I go off the gas (like before a traffic light) it goes into idle and the gas pedal is not acting as such anymore. Restart helps but only until the next time I go off the gas. I have a strong hunch it is that darned idle switch again behind the gas pedal sending a faulty signal to the ECU causing it to disable the gas pedal function.

Question : did anyone experience something similar? And : did anyone ever replace the idle switch? Thanks for your help !

Mileage starting 2013 is 579080....

 

[bing]

I think you need to pull codes , Dr P. Otherwise, here's the How to Link on replacing Idle switch : http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?742-HOW-TO-Replace-Idle-speed-contact-switch

 

[gsxr]

Has the ETA been replaced yet?

 

[DrP]

thanks for this link...this idle problem can usually have one of three root causes : 1) defect idle switch 2) defect throttle body (ETA) 3) defect ECU.
All three were replaced 2y ago ($5 grand total). Or 100k miles ago. I do not want to go thru this again but I think bing is right I do need to pull the codes first.
Will do and keep you updated....thanks