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Headlight bulbs
- Thread starter CCCIII
- Start date
Yes, that info would help! I'm in USA and own a 94 E500. The headlamps/fogs are stock. I was also considering a xenon/HID upgrade, but there are sooo many "kits" out there, with widely varying prices. So, I wasn't sure what was good and what wasn't. Any advice on that? Thanks again.
OK, that does help significantly. Nice car btw, I have the same year! 
The main headlamps (high & low beam) use H4 bulb, 60/55w. The auxiliary high beams (between the main headlamp and grille) use an H3 bulb, 55w. The fog lights in the bumper use H1 bulbs, 55w. You will need to use stock wattage, or close to it, with stock wiring. If you want to use high-wattage "rally" bulbs, you'll need to install relays and heavy-gauge wiring. Details are here. I did this on my car, but it's a lot of work (6-8 hours of labor to do it right).
Blue bulbs offer no benefit other than looking cool, and only some blue bulbs are have acceptable performance - most do not. Read more details here. Installing HID burners in a halogen lamp assembly is a really really bad idea... read all about it here. I know other people have done this and rave about it, but trust me, don't do it. Blinding oncoming traffic is not a smart thing to do, and besides, you can get the same lumens output as HID by using relays & overwatt "rally" halogen bulbs, except the halogen installation will be safe.
That said, most of the "plus 30" or "plus 50" bulbs don't offer a whole lot of extra performance over a standard 60/55 H4 bulb. They basically push the limits of the bulb spec, but cannot match the output of a true overwattage bulb. With stock wiring, I would recommend the Osram Hyper H4 70/65 bulb... this is slightly overwattage, but safe for stock wiring, and will outperform any "plus XX" bulb like Silverstars, Nightbreakers, etc. Click here to see the listing on eBay for 70/65's, from seller Peter Burgeson (pdburg). I have these in one of my other 124's. My cars with relays have the higher-output Osram Hyper 85/80, but I would NOT install these without relays. Peter has other bulbs available as well, email him with your needs and he can get whatever you need.
The main headlamps (high & low beam) use H4 bulb, 60/55w. The auxiliary high beams (between the main headlamp and grille) use an H3 bulb, 55w. The fog lights in the bumper use H1 bulbs, 55w. You will need to use stock wattage, or close to it, with stock wiring. If you want to use high-wattage "rally" bulbs, you'll need to install relays and heavy-gauge wiring. Details are here. I did this on my car, but it's a lot of work (6-8 hours of labor to do it right).
Blue bulbs offer no benefit other than looking cool, and only some blue bulbs are have acceptable performance - most do not. Read more details here. Installing HID burners in a halogen lamp assembly is a really really bad idea... read all about it here. I know other people have done this and rave about it, but trust me, don't do it. Blinding oncoming traffic is not a smart thing to do, and besides, you can get the same lumens output as HID by using relays & overwatt "rally" halogen bulbs, except the halogen installation will be safe.
That said, most of the "plus 30" or "plus 50" bulbs don't offer a whole lot of extra performance over a standard 60/55 H4 bulb. They basically push the limits of the bulb spec, but cannot match the output of a true overwattage bulb. With stock wiring, I would recommend the Osram Hyper H4 70/65 bulb... this is slightly overwattage, but safe for stock wiring, and will outperform any "plus XX" bulb like Silverstars, Nightbreakers, etc. Click here to see the listing on eBay for 70/65's, from seller Peter Burgeson (pdburg). I have these in one of my other 124's. My cars with relays have the higher-output Osram Hyper 85/80, but I would NOT install these without relays. Peter has other bulbs available as well, email him with your needs and he can get whatever you need.
After trying many products (as well as HID conversions) if your looking for a bright white H4 bulb that does not require relays or other complicated wiring, get a set of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MTEC-H4- ... ccessories
This is by far the best halogen bulb I have used. These are by far superior to Silverstars and are on-par to the JDM Piaa H4 bulbs but at a quarter of the price.
I use these in my car.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MTEC-H4- ... ccessories
This is by far the best halogen bulb I have used. These are by far superior to Silverstars and are on-par to the JDM Piaa H4 bulbs but at a quarter of the price.
I use these in my car.
Any bulb manufacturer who claims to defy the laws of physics, stating their bulbs put out lumens equal to 130/100 watts while only drawing 60/55 watts rank pretty high on my BS-O-Meter. Even if they do work well, I refuse to support products like that by buying them. The Osram Hypers work as claimed without blatant lies on the packaging... so I give them my business, even if they cost more. The fact they compare themselves to PIAA (the equivalent of Kraco in stereo biz, IMO) also reduces their credibility, at least from my POV.
I also dislike blue tint bulbs, but that's more of a personal preference thing...
I also dislike blue tint bulbs, but that's more of a personal preference thing...
gsxr said:Any bulb manufacturer who claims to defy the laws of physics, stating their bulbs put out lumens equal to 130/100 watts while only drawing 60/55 watts rank pretty high on my BS-O-Meter. Even if they do work well, I refuse to support products like that by buying them. The Osram Hypers work as claimed without blatant lies on the packaging... so I give them my business, even if they cost more. The fact they compare themselves to PIAA (the equivalent of Kraco in stereo biz, IMO) also reduces their credibility, at least from my POV.
I also dislike blue tint bulbs, but that's more of a personal preference thing...
The whole 130 watt 60/55 watt thing was not something I was endorsing, I agree, the laws of physics can't be bypassed. That said, I was the one comparing the bulbs to the PIAAs, which I could do for about a dozen or so bulbs also as I have tried most everything on the market. At first glance the Mtec appears to be just like all the other blue tinted crap bulbs on the market, but these have been given high praise from many on different forums, hence why I was intrieged and bought a pair.
I would think that just my endorsement alone would stand for something Dave, real world testing and comparison has been done. Can't say that these are 4300k bulbs of course, but they are very close to the color of my CLK HID's, just not as bright. They blow the Silverstars out of the water, just no comparison.
Rik, the Osram Hypers also blow the Silverstars out of the water. Could be the Mtec might be comparable to them - although I still dislike shady marketing. Maybe one of these days you can try the Hypers, or I can try the Mtec, for some comparison of the two.
gsxr said:Rik, the Osram Hypers also blow the Silverstars out of the water. Could be the Mtec might be comparable to them - although I still dislike shady marketing. Maybe one of these days you can try the Hypers, or I can try the Mtec, for some comparison of the two.
Are you referring to these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OSRAM-H4 ... 06.c0.m245
These would melt my sockets and/or wiring harness without adding additional SPDT relays. They also don't seem to list a Kelvin rating, just a lumens. Do you know what the color rating is?
Yes - and you are correct, the 85/80 versions need relays. However there is a 70/65 watt version of the Osram Hyper bulbs which work fine with the stock wiring... I have a set in the Euro lights on my '93 300D, with no relays. I don't know what the color rating is, but the globe is clear, not tinted:2phast said:
I think HID would work if you installed them like this:
http://kamran1860.tripod.com/n_xenon.htm
But I don't know if that would be preferable to 2phast or GSXR's suggestions.
http://kamran1860.tripod.com/n_xenon.htm
But I don't know if that would be preferable to 2phast or GSXR's suggestions.
You are correct - a proper HID conversion involves retrofitting a complete HID projector, and polishing the glass lens to remove the fluting on the 124 Euro light assembly. A huge, huge amount of work. The conversions I was dissing are the type where an HID burner replaces the H4 bulb, and retains the halogen reflector & lens.
chappardababbar said:
I've posted this link many times over the years as an example of how to properly convert to HID. Unfortunately, polishing the glass lense is not a simple procedure. The owner did not do this himself, he told me that Bosch did it for him (maybe Hella, don't remember) to the tune of $400.
I have tried to locate a company that could provide a similar service but regardless of cost, no one is interested in taking on a project like this.
Sitting in my garage is a set of Bosch euros which are ear marked for a HID conversion (hence the effort in sourcing a glass polishing company) but I will probably end up installing projectors into them to see how well they perform with the flutting intact.
I think that HID conversion looks ugly... I'd like the projector lens to be back where the original bulbs are, but this will take a lot of space in the engine compartment and get the whole square of the glass lens made clear.
BTW I have a E500 Limited with std euro headlights and I suppose I need a pair of H4, H3 and H1. I'd like yellow light in them, which bulbs make the best yellow light?
BTW I have a E500 Limited with std euro headlights and I suppose I need a pair of H4, H3 and H1. I'd like yellow light in them, which bulbs make the best yellow light?
124036-009 said:
Not possible as the projectors are long, then you have to include space for the burner and igniter. Even mounting them as far inward as possible, to keep the rear waterproof cover in place, you need to modify it to allow space for the igniter.
Also, as you have seen, there is a small section polished, mainly because the cost of doing this small area was $400, to do the whole lens is 1. Not possible and 2. Not cost effective. The flutting goes too close the edges of the lenses which would prevent proper polishing using the machine tools. If the small area cost $400 to polish, now imagine polishing the whole lense
I don't believe that from a performance nor aesthetics standpoint, that taking a normal housing and converting it to HID is the way to go. Props to people who do this, but fundamentally it's an unnatural act.
I guess the eBay aftermarket HID replacement units are an OK compromise, but anything HID just plain looks WRONG on the car to me. Sort of like one of those "videogame" headunits. Out of place on the car.
If someone REALLY wants to get hardcore, why don't they modify or score the guts of a BMW HID unit with the ring around the edge of it (parking/city light) and adapt that to our cars?!?
Cheers,
Gerry
I guess the eBay aftermarket HID replacement units are an OK compromise, but anything HID just plain looks WRONG on the car to me. Sort of like one of those "videogame" headunits. Out of place on the car.
If someone REALLY wants to get hardcore, why don't they modify or score the guts of a BMW HID unit with the ring around the edge of it (parking/city light) and adapt that to our cars?!?
Cheers,
Gerry
gerryvz said:
Not following this post at all Gerry..what aftermarket HID is a ok compromise??? A burner by itself in a halogen reflector with the halogen flutted lenses is definately not a ok compromise, its a diaster!
The only way to properly do this is with projectors and polishing the lense.
You have to remember that these projectors are not designed to be mounted into a reflector housing, there is a lot of work needing to be done and a lot of cutting and swearing, so no way will it be a "perfect" conversion, its just not possible.
Most of the other projector parts also don't fit these headlights, so to retrofit them is way more work then its worth.
With that said. I am thinking about trying these
http://cgi.ebay.com/H4-9003-Bi-xenon-pr ... 286.c0.m14
This projector kit is designed to secure to the H4 opening, no cutting of the reflector etc. is necessary. These will fit the euro headlights and also with no igniters on the back of the burners, you should be able to fit your covers without modifing them. They also have your "angle eyes" Gerry.
The users on the HID forums have given these a luke warm review, of course they are comparing them to TSX and S2000 projectors and of course they won't give the same level of performance.
I got the osrams 65/70's a few months ago using a google search. Can't remember whom. Dave mentioned an ebay seller.
I can say, I think bigger isnt' always better. You can do the bigger wattage w/wiring and relays, but they still have to wind the filimanet, so it gets longer and bigger so the pattern is not so much better. I've run the 100/130's and think the 65/70's are just fine.
Michael
I can say, I think bigger isnt' always better. You can do the bigger wattage w/wiring and relays, but they still have to wind the filimanet, so it gets longer and bigger so the pattern is not so much better. I've run the 100/130's and think the 65/70's are just fine.
Michael
How weird... I can't find any on eBay now either. 
Daniel Stern still lists them for sale on his website - drop him an email and ask about current availability:
http://danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html
Also:
http://store.candlepower.com/64205.html
http://www.rallylights.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=6
Daniel Stern still lists them for sale on his website - drop him an email and ask about current availability:
http://danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html
Also:
http://store.candlepower.com/64205.html
http://www.rallylights.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=6
For many years I read about the advantages of HIR based halogens and some OEM's use them in their cars. Of course they were never available in a H4 format, so it was impossible to try them.
This company offers them in a H4, but the wattage concerns me (without rewiring and running relays). I might give them a try, just to test
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIR-H4-LOW-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4167697da4&vxp=mtr
This company offers them in a H4, but the wattage concerns me (without rewiring and running relays). I might give them a try, just to test
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIR-H4-LOW-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4167697da4&vxp=mtr
I'm not familiar with HIR bulbs, but I'd have second thoughts about using off-brand Korean bulbs in my car. Osram is a well known, long-established bulb mfr and their Hyper bulbs have been excellent in all my cars. Now if Osram or Phillips were to offer an H4 HIR-type bulb, I'd be more interested.
Philips does make a HIR but only in 9005/9006.
HIR bulbs attain light levels 75% to 110% brighter than stock as a result of an engineering process that deposits multiple, yet almost invisible, layers of semi-reflective coating on the surface of a specially shaped quartz bulb. This coating… reflects a portion of the infrared energy emitted by the filament back onto the filament, causing it to glow brighter and emit more light from the uncoated forward portion of the bulb. Although the filament gets hotter, the glass does not. It generates no more heat than a regular halogen bulb, and it draws the same wattage and amperage as the stock [9005 and] 9006 bulb it replaces.
- A standard HB3/9005 bulb produces 1700 lumens of light.
- The HIR1/9011 bulb produces 2500 lumens of light.
http://www.hirheadlights.com/stats.htm
HIR is OEM in the Dodge Viper, BMW Z8, Infiniti I30, Chevy Avalance and new Nissan Maximas
I wish there were more manufactures to choose from for a H4 fitament. Leary as well about the Korean ones, especially because of the wattage.
HIR bulbs attain light levels 75% to 110% brighter than stock as a result of an engineering process that deposits multiple, yet almost invisible, layers of semi-reflective coating on the surface of a specially shaped quartz bulb. This coating… reflects a portion of the infrared energy emitted by the filament back onto the filament, causing it to glow brighter and emit more light from the uncoated forward portion of the bulb. Although the filament gets hotter, the glass does not. It generates no more heat than a regular halogen bulb, and it draws the same wattage and amperage as the stock [9005 and] 9006 bulb it replaces.
- A standard HB3/9005 bulb produces 1700 lumens of light.
- The HIR1/9011 bulb produces 2500 lumens of light.
http://www.hirheadlights.com/stats.htm
HIR is OEM in the Dodge Viper, BMW Z8, Infiniti I30, Chevy Avalance and new Nissan Maximas
I wish there were more manufactures to choose from for a H4 fitament. Leary as well about the Korean ones, especially because of the wattage.
On cars that were built for countries that drive on the left side of the road do they use a different headlight housing/reflector (Angled differently) or are they all the same and you just use the normal adjustment screws for proper aiming? This Japanese car I recently bought has terrible lighting and the beams seem to be adjusted directly in the windshield of uncoming traffic.
That's ok , Dave! Your expertise is not tarnished
.
It probably just threw you out when I was changing mine, albeit the opposite scenario of Randy's, at the time which TBH I just changed the lens and not the reflectors. Although I got away with it at a Test center for registration it wasn't quite right in all practicality. As confirmed on this thread : http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?846-headlamp-lense&highlight=reflectors , post #6 & 16, by Fudge and Ron500E the reflectors are LH/RH traffic dependant.
Bing
.It probably just threw you out when I was changing mine, albeit the opposite scenario of Randy's, at the time which TBH I just changed the lens and not the reflectors. Although I got away with it at a Test center for registration it wasn't quite right in all practicality. As confirmed on this thread : http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?846-headlamp-lense&highlight=reflectors , post #6 & 16, by Fudge and Ron500E the reflectors are LH/RH traffic dependant.
Bing
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Thanks for the info you guys,I kind of had a feeling that there might be specific light reflectors for different sides of the road but didn't even think of the glass lenses being different.I just did a little price checking and it looks like buying the whole unit is probably the best way to go. $234.00 at Parts.com
This is one of those jobs that can't wait,this car really isn't safe to drive at night with the setup I have.
This is one of those jobs that can't wait,this car really isn't safe to drive at night with the setup I have.
Here are the bulbs I am about to order. But, before I do, I wanted input from others that have done this conversion. Are these the right bulbs? I know Dave said he would get the standard H3 bulbs and NOT the +50. What do you think?
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H4 - HB2 - 9003 bulbs: Osram Rallye 70/65w +50 H4 bulb [remove][/TD][TD="class: ys_unitPrice, align: center"]$19.00[/TD][TD="class: ys_quantity, align: center"]
[/TD][TD="class: ys_last ys_cost, align: right"]$38.00[/TD][/TR][TR="class: ys_oddRow"][TD="class: ys_first ys_items"]
H3 bulbs: Narva® RangePower+50® Ultra High Output 55w H3 Bulb [remove][/TD][TD="class: ys_unitPrice, align: center"]$15.50[/TD][TD="class: ys_quantity, align: center"]
[/TD][TD="class: ys_last ys_cost, align: right"]$31.00[/TD][/TR][TR="class: ys_evenRow"][TD="class: ys_first ys_items"]
Narva Rangepower+50® Super High Output 55w H1SBL Bulb [remove][/TD][TD="class: ys_unitPrice, align: center"]$15.50[/TD][TD="class: ys_quantity, align: center"]
[/TD][TD="class: ys_last ys_cost, align: right"]$31.00[/TD][/TR][TR="class: ys_updateQty, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"][TD="class: ys_first"]
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H4 - HB2 - 9003 bulbs: Osram Rallye 70/65w +50 H4 bulb [remove][/TD][TD="class: ys_unitPrice, align: center"]$19.00[/TD][TD="class: ys_quantity, align: center"][/TD][TD="class: ys_last ys_cost, align: right"]$38.00[/TD][/TR][TR="class: ys_oddRow"][TD="class: ys_first ys_items"]
H3 bulbs: Narva® RangePower+50® Ultra High Output 55w H3 Bulb [remove][/TD][TD="class: ys_unitPrice, align: center"]$15.50[/TD][TD="class: ys_quantity, align: center"][/TD][TD="class: ys_last ys_cost, align: right"]$31.00[/TD][/TR][TR="class: ys_evenRow"][TD="class: ys_first ys_items"]
Narva Rangepower+50® Super High Output 55w H1SBL Bulb [remove][/TD][TD="class: ys_unitPrice, align: center"]$15.50[/TD][TD="class: ys_quantity, align: center"][/TD][TD="class: ys_last ys_cost, align: right"]$31.00[/TD][/TR][TR="class: ys_updateQty, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"][TD="class: ys_first"]
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Those all look fine, Trae. 
For the record, I don't mind +30/+50 bulbs for the H3 or H1 locations. However you do need to be careful when using overwatt H1/H3 bulbs, as those will usually require relays. The Osram Hyper H4 70/65 are only slightly higher than stock wattage so there is no issue with using those on stock wiring. I have the 70/65's in my wife's E420 and am very happy with them.
For the record, I don't mind +30/+50 bulbs for the H3 or H1 locations. However you do need to be careful when using overwatt H1/H3 bulbs, as those will usually require relays. The Osram Hyper H4 70/65 are only slightly higher than stock wattage so there is no issue with using those on stock wiring. I have the 70/65's in my wife's E420 and am very happy with them.
My apologies if I wasn't clear... the +30/+50 bulbs are usually stock wattage (55 watts for H1 or H3) and these would be fine, no need to change your order!
On a side note: Historically, all "plus" bulbs (that I had ever seen) were stock wattage. Only recently have I seen vendors listing the Osram Hyper 70/65 as a "plus 50" bulb, which is not really accurate. Stock H4 wattage is 60/55.
Relays would be needed if you wanted 100w H3 or H1 bulbs, or H4 bulbs 85/80 or larger.
On a side note: Historically, all "plus" bulbs (that I had ever seen) were stock wattage. Only recently have I seen vendors listing the Osram Hyper 70/65 as a "plus 50" bulb, which is not really accurate. Stock H4 wattage is 60/55.
Relays would be needed if you wanted 100w H3 or H1 bulbs, or H4 bulbs 85/80 or larger.
Osram Nightbreaker. The best "legal" Bulbs you can get.
EDIT: Look what car the test-person drives in the TV show
[video=youtube;KgOTtQvZXuo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgOTtQvZXuo[/video]
And i tried them all. Even the mentioned "MTEC" which were the last piece of crap bulbs you can get.
They looked so nice on the comparison pictures, as they were mass sold by a guy in the largest German Forums during starting at 2006 maybe, so i bought 4 sets at once and in all our cars they were totally utter crap. The light was pretty "bright" in terms of light-color, close to Xenon/HID, but not really strong and not far enough reaching for a safe drive during the night. And really dont even dare to drive with them during rain or other bad weather situations... It was getting to the point of pure world-weariness...
I was then switching to Phillips Power2Night GT150 which were quite bright and far out reaching, then i tested some Osrams with 3 color bulb, switched back the the GT150s and as soon as the Osram Nightbreakers appeared i was in heaven. Superb light at night, still pretty good at rain, so no need at all for HID/Xenon in any of our cars that don't have it.
EDIT: Look what car the test-person drives in the TV show
[video=youtube;KgOTtQvZXuo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgOTtQvZXuo[/video]
And i tried them all. Even the mentioned "MTEC" which were the last piece of crap bulbs you can get.
They looked so nice on the comparison pictures, as they were mass sold by a guy in the largest German Forums during starting at 2006 maybe, so i bought 4 sets at once and in all our cars they were totally utter crap. The light was pretty "bright" in terms of light-color, close to Xenon/HID, but not really strong and not far enough reaching for a safe drive during the night. And really dont even dare to drive with them during rain or other bad weather situations... It was getting to the point of pure world-weariness...
I was then switching to Phillips Power2Night GT150 which were quite bright and far out reaching, then i tested some Osrams with 3 color bulb, switched back the the GT150s and as soon as the Osram Nightbreakers appeared i was in heaven. Superb light at night, still pretty good at rain, so no need at all for HID/Xenon in any of our cars that don't have it.
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Attachments
Haha actually i have here 2:16 AM
I have still holiday.... well what holiday actually? Im constantly at my two M119s engines every day... getting quite annoyed already. Haha.Sure we can meet up. I'm 25 miles south of Frankfurt.
Hello, reviving a super old zombie thread, but just wanted to thank everyone for sharing this information.
I happen to already have the Euro headlights, and have ordered the H4 OSRAM Rallye 70/65w +50, H3 Narva RangePower+50 55w, and H1 Philips Xtreme Vision +130 bulbs.
If anyone has found better/brighter/stronger bulbs than these, I would appreciate if they could speak up and share - perhaps we can compare notes and figure out which is objectively better.
Apparently, the Philips H1 are newer than the Narva one, and are supposedly brighter - I have no way to compare, but I'll let you guys know how they turn out, and maybe snap a few photos with the DSLR and tripod if I have an opportunity.
Cheers
I happen to already have the Euro headlights, and have ordered the H4 OSRAM Rallye 70/65w +50, H3 Narva RangePower+50 55w, and H1 Philips Xtreme Vision +130 bulbs.
If anyone has found better/brighter/stronger bulbs than these, I would appreciate if they could speak up and share - perhaps we can compare notes and figure out which is objectively better.
Apparently, the Philips H1 are newer than the Narva one, and are supposedly brighter - I have no way to compare, but I'll let you guys know how they turn out, and maybe snap a few photos with the DSLR and tripod if I have an opportunity.
Cheers
