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HOW-TO: Change Mercedes-Benz 722.3 transmission fluid and filter

Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

Nope. Just do your tranny juice the hard way every 20-25K (with dino fluid) and you're good. Always do the pan and torque converter, and change filter. Not a bad idea to let both the TQ and the pan drain for a couple of hours. My pan is big enough that I can drain both simultaneously into it :)
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

The main issue is you only get about 1/3 to 1/2 the fluid out via the pan. The rest is in the converter, and that needs to come out the hard way. :)

Since it's usually only a once every few years project, it's not too bad. I think your front balancer has a paint mark on it so you can rotate quickly to the converter drain. The PO was kinda anal about that stuff.

:pc1:
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=51&pcid=9

So you have put that to 722.3? Redline page says that its for merc 5 and 6 speed but in the other hand it is dextron II compatible?

That's bullshit.

The 722.6 uses a spec 226.14 fluid.

Totally different then any Dexron fluid including Dex VI.

In fact, none of the Redline fluids have MB approval.

I'm sure they are OK in a 722.3 but I would never use them in a 722.6 or 722.9

722.9 transmissions built after June 2000 use another spec 236.15 which is blue and not compatible with ANY other fluid.

226.14 is backward compatible. I'll post the bulletin when I get home.
Sent from my SPH-M930BST using Tapatalk 2
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=51&pcid=9

So you have put that to 722.3? Redline page says that its for merc 5 and 6 speed but in the other hand it is dextron II compatible?
Yes, the D4 is compatible with 722.3/.4/.5/.6 transmissions. I think the 6-speed thing may be a typo - I'm not sure.

You can also use their High Temp fluid in the 722.3, I use this in all my 500E's.

:mushroom:
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

That's bullshit. The 722.6 uses a spec 226.14 fluid. Totally different then any Dexron fluid including Dex VI.
Clark, the 722.6 specified 226.10 spec fluids when it was released in 1996 in USA. When MB later came out with the .12 and .14 fluid specs, they said the newer, thinner fluids were backwards-compatible. This has been discussed before ad nauseum, on multiple forums. There is a long thread on PeachParts on this, IIRC.

The Red Line specs are correct, 226.10 spec is fine for 722.6, I've been using it in my W210 with zero issues. The 722.6 / 236.10 fluid is not magical, although MB tried to scare people into thinking that when it came out. It was basically just a Dexron-III full synthetic.


In fact, none of the Redline fluids have MB approval.
Correct... more specifically, none of the CURRENT Red Line fluids have MB approval, because Red Line has not paid MB to test/approve them. The last REd Line fluid which had formal MB approval was the old Dexron-II spec Red Line ATF, circa 1994, but this fluid was discontinued within the last 1-2 years. D4 is the replacement.


I'm sure they are OK in a 722.3 but I would never use them in a 722.6 or 722.9
D4 works perfectly in 722.6 but is NOT for 722.9 transmissions. Red Line D6 will work for 236.12/236.14 applications:
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=115&pcid=9


If you do some research on other forums, you'll find people have been using a LOT of different fluids in the 722.6 with zero issues. The tranny doesn't blow up if you don't feed it OE MB juice from a gray bottle.


:grouphug:
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

Clark, the 722.6 specified 226.10 spec fluids when it was released in 1996 in USA. When MB later came out with the .12 and .14 fluid specs, they said the newer, thinner fluids were backwards-compatible. This has been discussed before ad nauseum, on multiple forums. There is a long thread on PeachParts on this, IIRC.

I know Dave, I was working for MB when it was released, and went to factory training on the 722.6 specifically.

The Red Line specs are correct, 226.10 spec is fine for 722.6, I've been using it in my W210 with zero issues. The 722.6 / 236.10 fluid is not magical, although MB tried to scare people into thinking that when it came out. It was basically just a Dexron-III full synthetic.

Nobody is claiming it's magical, although I'll post the bulletin where MB say's to stop using 226.10
and use 226.12 or now 226.14


Correct... more specifically, none of the CURRENT Red Line fluids have MB approval, because Red Line has not paid MB to test/approve them. The last REd Line fluid which had formal MB approval was the old Dexron-II spec Red Line ATF, circa 1994, but this fluid was discontinued within the last 1-2 years. D4 is the replacement.


oooh, 20 years ago they had MB certification........ wow.

Mobil "HAS" paid for certification with their new Mobil 1 ATF 134
So has Shell, with their ATF 134. Which by the way can be had for $10 a quart online.

If you check spec 236.14 there are many company's that have paid to get the "hard to get" certification.

Redline?? Maybe they could, maybe not.


D4 works perfectly in 722.6 but is NOT for 722.9 transmissions. Red Line D6 will work for 236.12/236.14 applications:
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=115&pcid=9

Designed to satisfy Dexron-VI®, Dexron-III®, Mercon®SP, Mercon®LV, Honda DW-1, Toyota WS, Mercedes Benz NAG-2, ZF-LG 6, 6+ and 8 fluids

Hardly an endorsment. A fluid that claims to be compatible with Dexron III, Mercon and Mercedes specs?
Sounds like Prestone All Makes. All Models, All Years coolant.
Let me know when MB certifies it.


If you do some research on other forums, you'll find people have been using a LOT of different fluids in the 722.6 with zero issues. The tranny doesn't blow up if you don't feed it OE MB juice from a gray bottle.

7226.6 and the 722.9 are like Pong and PS4 as far as fluid demands and technology go.
I'm not surprised any fluid works well in the 722.6, very basic transmission.

The fact that Mercedes sent out a bulletin telling dealers to stop using their own 236.10
kind of tells you how weak the additive package was.

No need for the grey bottle, although it's in my 722.3

You have very affordable Shell 236.14 spec fluid.

proxy.php


I eagerly await your response, as I have much more intel in reserve. Bring it.

proxy.php



.
 
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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

.

In fairness to Dave, here's the 20 year old MB approval on Redline ATF...............2.gif

Odd they had the coin to pay for the certification 20 years ago, but not now.....profits must be down.3.gif


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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

.



Hey look, O'Reilly ATF is good in everything too, just like that Redline stuff, 236.10 AND 236.12


proxy.php


proxy.php
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

I wouldn't use the O'Reilly fluid, but you see my point about claiming to meet MB spec
and actually meeting it by scientific testing and certification.

Any company can claim it meets MB spec.

Look at that Sensa scandel, they lost millions in a lawsuit because they couldn't prove
that sprinkling it on food would cause you to lose weight.
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

MB likes to supercede so they don't have to stock multiple fluids. The .12/.14 is thinner viscosity, basically a Dexron-VI fluid. Bottom line, I have no interest in using a thinner Dex-VI fluid in my 722.6 transmission, no matter what MB says. Red Line D4 works very well. And, Red Line is one of the very few oils left that are a true Group IV/V base stock. Oh, and I've had the old Red Line Dex-II MB approval doc on my website for at least 5 years now. Old news.

I've posted my views on Mobil before, I'm not impressed with them anymore, the majority of their lineup is Group III base stocks. I prefer to vote with my wallet and NOT buy any Mobil oils if I can avoid it.

I'm sure you'd have similar views on Amsoil ATF, which also claims to work with 722.6 / 236.10 spec. Uh-oh!

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...c-automatic-transmission-fluid/?code=ATFQT-EA

:stirthepot:
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

I wouldn't use the O'Reilly fluid, but you see my point about claiming to meet MB spec and actually meeting it by scientific testing and certification.

Any company can claim it meets MB spec.
Yeah, except Red Line is a reputable company with an absolutely top-notch product.

They are not claiming it "meets MB spec", the exact wording is, "Suitable replacement for the following products."

Unless you are claiming these aftermarket fluids should not be used in 722.3 transmissions, let's end this discussion NOW. This is a 500E discussion forum, with 722.3 transmissions, not 722.6 transmissions. If you want to debate 236.10/.11/.12/.14 fluids, that debate belongs on Ben's Whirled - not here.


:mushroom: :mushroom: :mushroom:
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

That's my point, the 236.12/14 can be used in the 722.3

Is it thinner? Yes, at 40°c. But at operating temp it's more stable then Dex III and is the same viscosity


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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

As I've posted previously, I tried the thinner Dex-VI fluid in one of my cars, and it immediately caused a flare with part-throttle upshifts. I had to adjust the modulator to eliminate the flare. Never had the flaring previously with the normal Dex-III fluid. I don't care what MB says about the thin crap being backwards compatible. It's for fuel economy, not performance or longevity.

You can use whatever you want in your cars, just like every other forum member. I'm simply posting what I am doing with mine: D4 in the street cars and High Temp (viscosity of 10 instead of 7.5, oh my goodness!) in the race cars.

:pc1:
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

As I've posted previously, I tried the thinner Dex-VI fluid in one of my cars, and it immediately caused a flare with part-throttle upshifts. I had to adjust the modulator to eliminate the flare. Never had the flaring previously with the normal Dex-III fluid.


If you had a "flaring" issue with any fluid you have a transmission issue. Probably in the valve body.
Thicker viscosity fluid covers up problems like a band-aid. Kind of like using thicker viscosity engine oil to cover a lifter tick.

Besides, Dex VI fluid isn't MB spec 236.12/14 fluid

I don't care what MB says about the thin crap being backwards compatible. It's for fuel economy, not performance or longevity.

If it's such crap, why can't Redline get their fluid certified, should be a cake walk for their fluid.

So when it comes to parts, like a fan clutch it's MB or OEM, but fluids, MB doesn't know crap?

You can use whatever you want in your cars, just like every other forum member. I'm simply posting what I am doing with mine: D4 in the street cars and High Temp (viscosity of 10 instead of 7.5, oh my goodness!) in the race cars.



:pc1:

I do, i have MB 236.14 that I put in my NEW reman Mercedes gearbox 2 and a half years ago.

I did a lot of research before using that fluid, and my transmission shifts flawlessly at any throttle position.

And having driven hunderds of 722.3 transmission cars over the years including all the brand new MB's
of the period in question I have a good grasp on how they should shift.
 
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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

OK Gerry, I think I earned that Chain Yank w/Cluster award.__
proxy.php


Maybe change my avatar rating from Senior Member to Master Chain Yanker.
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

If you had a "flaring" issue with any fluid you have a transmission issue. Probably in the valve body.
Thicker viscosity fluid covers up problems like a band-aid. Kind of like using thicker viscosity engine oil to cover a lifter tick.
There was no transmission issue. It was a fluid issue. Nothing with the valve body. Did you read what I posted, or are you just blinded by your assumptions?


Besides, Dex VI fluid isn't MB spec 236.12/14 fluid
No, but it's the same thinner viscosity, from chasing fuel economy.


If it's such crap, why can't Redline get their fluid certified, should be a cake walk for their fluid.
Yeah, why can't Red Line, Mobil, Amsoil, Royal Purple, and every other oil mfr submit their fluids to every vehicle mfr worldwide to get official approval from all of them? Lazy cheap bastards! Their products must all suck.


So when it comes to parts, like a fan clutch it's MB or OEM, but fluids, MB doesn't know crap?
Sure, like, whatever, dude.


:chainyank: :chainyank: :chainyank:
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

Well, I was going to let it rest, but since you insist............. here's a PM I received
from an oil company engineer that post's on MB World.

His title was :
Global Marketing Director - Industrial - Multinational Oilco

He was on a team that was contracted to develop 236.14 spec fluid by Mercedes.

Is he wrong too, along with MB's bulletin and my personal experience??

http://mbworld.org/forums/

On October 25, 2013
clarkz71 said:
Hi Glyn,

I've read your post regarding your involvement in
the development of the 236.14 fluid.

I'm a 30 year Benz tech from Florida and 2 years
ago I installed a new re-man trans in my 400E.

It's a 722.366, and I had read that 236.12 was backward
compatible with the 722.3 trans. So I used 236.14 fluid I had access to.

Trans shifts perfect 2 years later but I get a lot of crap on the MB forum I'm on even though I posted
a copy of that bulletin.

What are your thoughts of what I did?

Thanks, Clark

Hi Clark,
Sorry for the late reply. My inbox gets completely clogged.

Your trasmission was designed to operate on Dexron IID type products. I consider the use of 236.14 approved fluid to be an excellent choice. Being mostly synthetic & with the right sort of friction modifiers it should enhance transmission life. It might cause slightly greater shift shock but at least you won't flair & burn clutches.

A lot of crap is spoken out there and the viscosity issue is completely misunderstood. 236.14 products are very high VI (viscosity index). Mineral DexII products are not. High VI products start thin but thin far less with temperature rise than low VI products like DexII.

The viscosity of 236.14 will do no harm whatsoever in the 722.3 transmission.
Do not use the new Blue 234.15 fluid as it is not backward compatible.

People that tell you that their transmission is so smooth after using Redline or whatever are playing with fire. The only reason it feels smoother is that it is allowing more clutch slip which leads to higher temperatures, wear & failure.

Good luck!

Glyn M Ruck

Super Moderator
 
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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

Red Line D4 has a higher viscosity index than Shell 3403 (MB 236.10), Fuchs 3353 (MB 236.12), and Fuchs 4134 (236.14).

Just put mushrooms in the transmission.

:slosh:
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

Oh, Fuchs 3353............ also recommended for Dex III

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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

Red Line D4 has a higher viscosity index than Shell 3403 (MB 236.10), Fuchs 3353 (MB 236.12), and Fuchs 4134 (236.14).

Just put mushrooms in the transmission.

:slosh:


Dave, Dave , Dave.

You can't cherry pick.

Motul 236.14 spec fluid has a great VI and flash point. 192 vs 198 and 210°c vs 225°c

Not bad for "Crap Thin fluid".

http://www.motul.com/system/product...56702/original/ATF_236.14_(GB).pdf?1354100506


Motul ATF 236.14
14.jpg

Redline D4

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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

You can't blame the fluid for a flare problem.

My car has not flared once in 25000 miles. And I run the shit out of it.

You're just wrong on this one buddy.

I'm due for a trans fluid change in September, I'll probably go with the Motul 236.14
since I use their 8100 5W40 engine oil which is fantastic.

proxy.php
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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

The Motul looks like pretty good stuff. And if I had a 722.9 trans, I might consider using it. But, ooops, we're talking 722.3 here... and D4 still has better VI. :)

And I can totally blame the fluid for the flare. The trans shifted perfectly before switching from Dex-III to Dex-VI, the flare started IMMEDIATELY after putting in the Dex-VI, and it shifted fine after going back to Dex-III. That particular trans is still going strong 6+ years later. There was nothing wrong with the valve body, or anything else.

Back to the 722.3 spec: Mercedes sheet 231.1 (attached) shows 236.10 is the newest fluid that "should be used", with 236.12 as "can be used". The 236.14 fluid is NOT approved for the 722.3 in this spec sheet, nor has it been since at least 2008. Obviously the 236.14 fluid works in the 722.3, since you've had it in your 400E for 25kmi without issues. Spec sheet 231.0 also attached for posterity.

However, it seems we are BOTH using fluids which are not approved by Mercedes for our transmissions. Oh dear.

:mushroom1:
 

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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

You're in denial dude.

I must have a "super mutant 722.3" because by your logic it should flare.

But, ooops, I'm not using DEX VI.

The mystery continues.

You hold on to that 006 better Viscosity Index of D4 over Motul__
proxy.php


I put up all kinds of real documentation, what have you put up??

Opinion based on your car with Dex VI. Why don't you try 236.14 before you say it's no good crap fluid.

You remind me of the guys at the track that think because they turn a 9.99 sec ET they have a 9 second car.

That's a 10.0 car all day.

Malachite/Mushroom rules!!!
 
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Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

Guys,

I think we need to chill on this thread for a while.
 
Re: 722.3 transmission oil change -- instructions

I skimmed that VERY long file, here are a few comments:

1) This procedure shows draining the converter with the crossover pipe in place. If you attempt this, expect a big mess (even more than usual). The factory procedure calls for removing the crossover pipe, and it's really not that hard - four bolts and it's off (the one exhaust gasket can be re-used). In some cases, you will not be able to remove the trans pan with the crossover pipe in place... depends on the alignment of the exhaust system; it can bolt up in a slightly different position from car to car, and each time it's removed/installed. Finding out the pan is held captive by the crossover pipe, while there is still a bunch of fluid in it, is a GREAT way to take an ATF bath.

2) Drain BOTH the pan and converter before putting in the new filter & pan gasket. You always want to get all the old fluid out before cleaning & reinstalling the pan. The tranny internals continue to drip into the pan the whole time you are working, and I think some fluid migrates from the converter into the pan, and I don't want any old fluid staying in there if I can avoid it. Try draining the pan sometime (remove it & wipe it dry), then put it back on and let the car sit overnight. You'll be surprised at how much more fluid shows up in the pan after it sits for 8+ hours (especially if the converter is still full!). BT, DT.

3) For the 400E/500E tranny, you need 8 quarts of ATF. Not 9, not 7, eight quarts. When the converter is fully drained and pan has been removed for filter replacement, there really is no need to perform the painstaking fill procedure he describes on page 15. Pour in 4 or 5 quarts, start the engine & move gear selector to each position briefly, then shut it down and pour in the balance of the 8 quarts. Then skip to the last step, checking the level with the tranny hot. 99% of the time, the level will be perfect. If you let the trans drain overnight, you may need to top off and add an additional 8-16 oz (1/4 to 1/2 quart), for a grand total of 8.25-8.50 quarts. Aim to have the HOT fluid level near the max mark on the dipstick; the trans can experience WOT shift hangs when the fluid is cool/warm if the level is near MIN. Be very careful to not overfill, remember the level must be checked with the trans fully hot, not just warm. That means 15-30 minutes at freeway speeds, not 10 minutes puttering around the neighborhood. Note: If the valve body is removed or changed, you will need to add *another* ~0.5 quarts when filling.

4) The note about Mobil-1 ATF on page 16 also applies to many (most?) other brands of ATF on the market today. 2016 UPDATE: I've come to grips with the newfangled stinky ATF. Mobil-1 ATF "Multi-Vehicle" formula is fine for our cars. Red Line discontinued their old, odorless Dex-II formula in late 2010 or early 2011. I now use Red Line D4 or High Temp (which is just a thicker D4). I do not recommend using D6 or any other Dexron-VI fluid in a higher-mile used transmission. Dex-VI is a thinner viscosity and may cause issues... be prepared to adjust your vacuum modulator and/or fiddle with Superior spring kit if you use Dex-VI fluid in a high-mile transmission. Dex-VI is ok in a fresh rebuild, but may still need vac modulator tweaks.

For posterity, here is my previous rant from 2010 - please disregard: This is one of several reasons why I personally choose not to use Mobil-1 Synthetic ATF in my Mercedes cars anymore. If you also prefer (as I do) to use a fluid that doesn't stink and smell burnt when new out of the bottle, buy Red Line Synthetic ATF... the original Dexron-II formula, or D4, or High Temp... but not the newer D6 formula. The old Dex-II fluid is nearly odorless, like good old-fashioned ATF used to be. D4 and High Temp both have the sharp odor like the new M-1 fluid. Whatever ATF you choose, DO NOT use the newer Dexron-VI spec fluid, it is a thinner viscosity. The factory spec calls for Dex-II or Dex-III.


The factory transmission fluid change procedure is at this link.

I also attached the 1994 Mercedes Service Products list, which shows the original Red Line Synthetic ATF (Dex-II) as formally approved by MB USA for the 500E / E500. See the bottom of page 2.

Skip down to post #16 for some additional tips...


:cheers:


Updated May-2016 with my current comments.
Can I do this same thing for 722.6?
 
Can I do this same thing for 722.6?
The procedure is slightly different for the 722.6, because as of about 1998 USA/Canada model year, there is no drain plug for the torque converter. If your car is a 1997 SL500, it *might* have the converter drain, which would be awesome. If so, the majority of the procedure above will be the same, or at least similar. Without a converter drain, it becomes a RPITA.

:duck:
 
The procedure is slightly different for the 722.6, because as of about 1998 USA/Canada model year, there is no drain plug for the torque converter. If your car is a 1997 SL500, it *might* have the converter drain, which would be awesome. If so, the majority of the procedure above will be the same, or at least similar. Without a converter drain, it becomes a RPITA.
Luckily mine is 1997 with the drain! Thanks again :nobmw:
 
Any tips on getting this gasket to seal? Did this change like 1.5 years ago on my 560SEC, new pan gasket from MB and using Redline synthetic and it's leaking from the gaskets (and gasket bolts). All bolts are snug at the correct torque. Maybe loosen and re torque?
 
Any tips on getting this gasket to seal? Did this change like 1.5 years ago on my 560SEC, new pan gasket from MB and using Redline synthetic and it's leaking from the gaskets (and gasket bolts). All bolts are snug at the correct torque. Maybe loosen and re torque?
Are you absitively, posolutely certain the leak is from the pan gasket? About 99.9999% of the time I've seen claims of a leaking pan gasket, it ends up being a leak from somewhere north of the pan gasket sealing surface. Drips will form at the bolts as well as fluid gravitates downward from, uh, gravity. Only way to verify the source is to clean the transmission spotless & dry, tuck paper towels all over, drive for a bit, and see where fluid appears. It's super unusual to have a pan gasket leak.

If it really is the pan gasket, did you use a Genuine MB gasket? If not, replace with OE Genuine (drain into a clean container to save the precious Red Line, yes it's ok to re-use if you keep debris out of the drain container). I torque to 5Nm first in a kriss-kriss pattern, then to spec of 8Nm and go over all the bolts a second time at 8Nm. Far less common is a warped pan, this is extremely rare IMO, and occurs when a previous tech/owner way over-tightened the bolts.

:klink:
 
I'll check again. I used the below video as a reference and checked pretty thoroughly without anything obvious on the scale of the leaks...a tiny bit of dry fluid at the rear seal, I think it's also leaking a bit from the front seal (or RMS of engine but I think it's ATF) and the kickdown switch but that was really it, and with cradboard below the car there's a pretty clear pattern of the pan bolts, and even wiping off the gasket saw fluid again. I used a MB gasket. Will check again in a few days if I can. I have changed the vacuum modulator recently but I don't think that is causing it as it's coming from the opposite rear corner as well, but well noted and I think I'm due to try the towel method. I don't think pulling a transmission on a 126 is *that* bad so I'm tempted to just go for it - I've heard 4 hours to pull, about the same to put back in.

 
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After 2500 miles since purchasing the car I’m taking her in for full fluid service change before winter storage. @gsxr thoughts on natural (non synthetic) Dextron vs Synthetic?
It may be hard to find non-synthetic (or, non-synthetic blend) ATF these days. In general I prefer thicker ATF's with viscosity rating of ~7.5, the old Dexron-III spec. A lot of fluids today are the thinner Dexron-VI spec at ~6.0 cSt. If you use thinner fluid, you may need to tweak the vacuum modulator slightly firmer.

Dino vs synthetic won't matter much either way for a normal street use on a sunny-weekend cruiser.

:grouphug:
 
Thanks @gsxr Curious if natural non-synthetic was what was recommended in period when the cars were new. My owners manual is in German and I’m too lazy to translate. Lol
In the early 90's, non-synthetic was more common, but the official "approved service products list" did include some full synthetic ATF's. So, either is technically acceptable.

:jono:
 
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