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500Eboard Management
SLS Delete
- Thread starter bing
- Start date
:roll: 
Should have known better! Yeah, why would anyone botch the SLS system in a 036, hah, hah??
IMO, the only valid reason for SLS removal would be on a full-blown race car that gets little if any street use, and that includes wagons too.
I'll never understand why people want to get rid of something that works well, just because they don't like the pricetag. Kinda like buying an old Ferrari, then the engine dies, and rather than fixing it they stick a small block Chevy in there instead. Yeah, it will move the car, but it just ain't the same. Ditto with SLS removal... IMO anyway. Just fix the SLS properly, with new parts it should be good for another 20 years.
I'll never understand why people want to get rid of something that works well, just because they don't like the pricetag. Kinda like buying an old Ferrari, then the engine dies, and rather than fixing it they stick a small block Chevy in there instead. Yeah, it will move the car, but it just ain't the same. Ditto with SLS removal... IMO anyway. Just fix the SLS properly, with new parts it should be good for another 20 years.
and do not understand how it works, how it fails or how to repair it.
IMO, the only valid reason for SLS removal would be on a full-blown race car that gets little if any street use, and that includes wagons too.
I'll never understand why people want to get rid of something that works well, just because they don't like the pricetag. Kinda like buying an old Ferrari, then the engine dies, and rather than fixing it they stick a small block Chevy in there instead. Yeah, it will move the car, but it just ain't the same. Ditto with SLS removal... IMO anyway. Just fix the SLS properly, with new parts it should be good for another 20 years.
I double that but in the case of....a lesser equipped 034 you have the oppotunity to set up, tune that car to your liking, well not really race track, road track maybe. Mannors the 036 was'nt intended for. The 034 you can be a little careless with and play around w as it does'nt have the history of the 036 on it's shoulders, you can go more fullblown. Tearing down the sls system, what a job to restore if you want originality back, otherwise the value will surely be affected, stay oem and you can not go wrong. Roger
I will toss in that you'll pick up some ponies not driving that pump..especially w/ the system under Load..;-) I've found a few HP on the 560's doing as much.
I'd also add that w/ a full set of adjustable Koni's all around you can make the car work quite well on street or track...!
Anyone need some 500 SLS bits..
Jono
I'd also add that w/ a full set of adjustable Koni's all around you can make the car work quite well on street or track...!
Anyone need some 500 SLS bits..
Jono
I will toss in that you'll pick up some ponies not driving that pump..especially w/ the system under Load..;-) I've found a few HP on the 560's doing as much.
I'd also add that w/ a full set of adjustable Koni's all around you can make the car work quite well on street or track...!
Anyone need some 500 SLS bits..
Jono
I! Also no generator upgrade, less use of the AC, less is more, sometimes
"some"? Does that mean 2-4 or ~10?
I can imagine losing a lot of driving comfort when ditching that system. Normal shocks are much stiffer, especially when they keep the car as low as the 500 already is, right?
Borring: the site Bing linked to also specifies a kit that helps you remove the SLS function while keeping the power steering system. Too bad they don't elaborate on how they do that...
I can imagine losing a lot of driving comfort when ditching that system. Normal shocks are much stiffer, especially when they keep the car as low as the 500 already is, right?
Borring: the site Bing linked to also specifies a kit that helps you remove the SLS function while keeping the power steering system. Too bad they don't elaborate on how they do that...
The question here, is, why? is it due to high repair costs, is there a total remake of the suspension ( do'nt forget the front suspension) what's the purpouse
is rebuilding to oem part of the equation in the future, think you have to decide that before even starting.
Related note, some threads in MB forums does mention, Coilover conversion, do you belive! are they going track or rallying? I think it's mainly the word coilover, awesome to some people, younger ones I guess. Now everyone can do whatever they like to their cars but I say, think again,, Roger
is rebuilding to oem part of the equation in the future, think you have to decide that before even starting.
Related note, some threads in MB forums does mention, Coilover conversion, do you belive! are they going track or rallying? I think it's mainly the word coilover, awesome to some people, younger ones I guess. Now everyone can do whatever they like to their cars but I say, think again,, Roger
Yup, ditch the tandem pump, which if in good shape is worth a few $$;-)
The 16V guys talked about close to 10HP @ full load/under stress, ie heavy cornerning etc.. The cars are still More then comfortable with standard suspension, go for a ride in a lowered E420..
As for the coilovers, The front spring perches were not designed for that much stress, they would need to be Heavily re-enforced to withstand the strain...that said, the ones I've seen retained the stock spring, but also Added a small one on the coil over. Kind of a strange setup.
As for a reason to remove the system that does not have to do with the track...I had one VERY Tired 500E come through here, pushing 300K on the clock..his tandem pump LEAKED, the proprtioning valve was weeping, one of the rear rams was getting wet w/ oil, and Both lower ram ball joints were Toast. This was an instance were swapping out to non SLS would be OK, this car will never be Spectacular..it's just been Used. And instead of driving it around half in the bag you could put a Very nice standard system in place and not have the worry of $$$ repairs again in the future. Ideal, eh..but real world Workable, absolutely.
Front suspension doesn't need to be fiddled with so much..but I Would recommend to anyone doing this swap go ahead and drop a set of V8 124 H&R's/Eibachs in to round out the setup.
Jono
The 16V guys talked about close to 10HP @ full load/under stress, ie heavy cornerning etc.. The cars are still More then comfortable with standard suspension, go for a ride in a lowered E420..
As for the coilovers, The front spring perches were not designed for that much stress, they would need to be Heavily re-enforced to withstand the strain...that said, the ones I've seen retained the stock spring, but also Added a small one on the coil over. Kind of a strange setup.
As for a reason to remove the system that does not have to do with the track...I had one VERY Tired 500E come through here, pushing 300K on the clock..his tandem pump LEAKED, the proprtioning valve was weeping, one of the rear rams was getting wet w/ oil, and Both lower ram ball joints were Toast. This was an instance were swapping out to non SLS would be OK, this car will never be Spectacular..it's just been Used. And instead of driving it around half in the bag you could put a Very nice standard system in place and not have the worry of $$$ repairs again in the future. Ideal, eh..but real world Workable, absolutely.
Front suspension doesn't need to be fiddled with so much..but I Would recommend to anyone doing this swap go ahead and drop a set of V8 124 H&R's/Eibachs in to round out the setup.
Jono
Yup, ditch the tandem pump, which if in good shape is worth a few $$;-)
The 16V guys talked about close to 10HP @ full load/under stress, ie heavy cornerning etc.. The cars are still More then comfortable with standard suspension, go for a ride in a lowered E420..
As for the coilovers, The front spring perches were not designed for that much stress, they would need to be Heavily re-enforced to withstand the strain...that said, the ones I've seen retained the stock spring, but also Added a small one on the coil over. Kind of a strange setup.
As for a reason to remove the system that does not have to do with the track...I had one VERY Tired 500E come through here, pushing 300K on the clock..his tandem pump LEAKED, the proprtioning valve was weeping, one of the rear rams was getting wet w/ oil, and Both lower ram ball joints were Toast. This was an instance were swapping out to non SLS would be OK, this car will never be Spectacular..it's just been Used. And instead of driving it around half in the bag you could put a Very nice standard system in place and not have the worry of $$$ repairs again in the future. Ideal, eh..but real world Workable, absolutely.
Front suspension doesn't need to be fiddled with so much..but I Would recommend to anyone doing this swap go ahead and drop a set of V8 124 H&R's/Eibachs in to round out the setup.
Jono
I am curious about a SLS delete. I know it works great and that no replacement shockers will give the same comfort, however it is tempting. Deleting the SLS doesn't mean ripping out the hydr.tubes, cutting and grinding away all brackets etc... For me it would be a deletion of the function, take out the main parts, seal the tubes with proper fittings and leave them in place, replace the tandem pump or modify it. That leaves the possibility for adding everything again if wanted.
Jono - which shock absorbers do you recommend?
(with H&R lowering springs or similar installed)
I was once test-driving a 500E with SLS delete in germany. Here this is quite common because of the high repair costs of the SLS System.
The car was pretty lowered and had IIRC yellow Konis and some Aftermarket lowering srpings. The Konis were Set to the lowest Setting and i find it was still quite comfortable, but much more sporty than the stock suspension which i like. The car felt like a sporty BMW 5 Series or somethig like that.
Pics:
The car was pretty lowered and had IIRC yellow Konis and some Aftermarket lowering srpings. The Konis were Set to the lowest Setting and i find it was still quite comfortable, but much more sporty than the stock suspension which i like. The car felt like a sporty BMW 5 Series or somethig like that.
Pics:
I am surprised of the things some people do, You can probably find a set of used 500E struts for cheap which will keep the car original and maintain its status and value, And they last forever (unless the bearing rusts).
Here is a little secret... I got a set of 500E struts out of the rolled 500E in Q8 (pics were on 500E.com), the car rolled multiple times and jumped the curb as well....The struts functioned perfectly !! and only $100 for the pair !
Here is a little secret... I got a set of 500E struts out of the rolled 500E in Q8 (pics were on 500E.com), the car rolled multiple times and jumped the curb as well....The struts functioned perfectly !! and only $100 for the pair !
Well i never saw any used rear SLS Struts for the 500E anywhere. Also, the Struts normally last forever, only rarely heard of any leaks or other breakdowns - mostly its the lower rubber bushings that tend to get worn-out and which produces the well known knocking sound from the back.
New price for them was like 370€ from Sachs per piece and ~60€ for the "bulls balls" in the trunk (the actual damper) per piece.
New price for them was like 370€ from Sachs per piece and ~60€ for the "bulls balls" in the trunk (the actual damper) per piece.
Nice pictures!
I already lowered the car wirh H&R springs and yellow Koni's at the front. I still consider SLS delete, but is searching for more references, and a 400 pump. For comfort I take my van, for fun I hit and feel the road in my 500.
It's not my top project, but it's on the list.
I already lowered the car wirh H&R springs and yellow Koni's at the front. I still consider SLS delete, but is searching for more references, and a 400 pump. For comfort I take my van, for fun I hit and feel the road in my 500.
It's not my top project, but it's on the list.
Hei Dan.
The 500s don't have any diff.lock like ASD. They have ASR, which is a electronic system with ignition/fuel cut-off (?) so the engine reduces the power to prevent uncontrolled wheel spin (...which is the fun part sometimes ;-))
But I don't know whether the ASR also engages the rear brakes to even out the traction between the rear wheels. Anyone here to confirm/disclaim that?
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Mine did at 129kkm and here's the work carried out and cost:
poltergeräusch hinten beheben
stossdampfer ausgeschlagen, ersetzen
Stossdampfer hinten
druckkugel
Stossdampfermontagesatz
Rechnung sfr2'970.95
Loose change for an E500
Yes thats exactly what the lower rubber bushing causes normally - the "Poltergeräusch" or "Knocking sound". What else should cause this in a shock absorber?
Sorry, I missed this post!
I'm running the Koni Adjustables and I like them Very much..! They do "crank up" nicely and on the softer setting they are Quite comfortable. I had an E420 Slammed on H&R's 1 nib shims and 18' brabus w/ Bilstein Sports and PS2's...that was a bit on the firm side, but that was the idea..30 series profile tyres didn't help things much!
So if you like to dual use the car, konis would be a Great way to go!
jono
I'm running the Koni Adjustables and I like them Very much..! They do "crank up" nicely and on the softer setting they are Quite comfortable. I had an E420 Slammed on H&R's 1 nib shims and 18' brabus w/ Bilstein Sports and PS2's...that was a bit on the firm side, but that was the idea..30 series profile tyres didn't help things much!
So if you like to dual use the car, konis would be a Great way to go!
jono
Yes arnt, uncontrolled spin you say, it shuts down power and if that isn't enough it starts to brake the wheel thats trying to break loose, safety first but as you say, if you want fun and control that spin yourself, you have to go the E420 way and be the master of power w your right foot,,Roger
Mind you I'd say half of the servicemanual, 124 036 500E, is about the ASR system,,,,,
AFAIK the 500 has two ways of keeping the wheels from spinning: below 40km/h it does something fancy with pressure and whatnot, and above it simply cuts out the engine. Anyone have more details about that? I do know it works way better than my previous car, where the entire car would shudder and you could feel the engine trying to break free (because that simply cut the fuel to the engine, very scary)
Factory docs with details on ASR operation are at these links:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/ASD-ASR-4MATIC.pdf
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/ASD-ASR-4MATIC-ADS.pdf
Hmmm, it is a safety aspect for the average drivers on slippery conditions, but so much engineering and spendings to give the car 'some sort' of safety. I've grown up in the snowbelt, and my experience is that having full control myself is the best. Even my cohabitant is not so fan of the traction control, and guess what she said when we got the S211 this summer - "Luckily it is a rear wheel drive!"
Arnt, remember who did buy the 500 in the nineties? and MB has always been the forerunner for safety issues. We up here in the Nordic, living half of the year on a controlled drift w a little counter steer. Well some if not most drive front wheel drive, so they go straight ( into the snow) but last winter I did go
with the ESP on in my C43, I tried w.o but worn down mud&snow tires was not the right combo. Traction controll w stability programm is best for most people
say 99.9% and even so, the traction cont. in some conditions won't let you out of the spot, you need to spinn the wheels, therefore the ASR/ESP off button.
How many of the 99.9 does know about that, from one Rally driver to another,,Roger
with the ESP on in my C43, I tried w.o but worn down mud&snow tires was not the right combo. Traction controll w stability programm is best for most people
say 99.9% and even so, the traction cont. in some conditions won't let you out of the spot, you need to spinn the wheels, therefore the ASR/ESP off button.
How many of the 99.9 does know about that, from one Rally driver to another,,Roger
Hei Dan.
No it is not required. The SLS do only maintain the level of the rear end out from it's presetting.
Hello.
I have tried to find some Koni shocks, but they don't specify any for the 036 in the lists I have seen. Do you have any type description on them?
It's the same for all w124
8741-1092S (rear) 26-1198S (front)
I'm using Koni at the front - Just reailazed that the rear ones is half-price of the front
Here is a cheap place to buy them in Denmark (even cheaper than in Germany):
http://www.refako.dk/index.php?cPath=89_890000987_890001026_890001027&tPath=85
8741-1092S (rear) 26-1198S (front)
I'm using Koni at the front - Just reailazed that the rear ones is half-price of the front
Here is a cheap place to buy them in Denmark (even cheaper than in Germany):
http://www.refako.dk/index.php?cPath=89_890000987_890001026_890001027&tPath=85
Another question, are they adjustable both at front and rear?
It's the same for all w124
8741-1092S (rear) 26-1198S (front)
I'm using Koni at the front - Just reailazed that the rear ones is half-price of the front
Here is a cheap place to buy them in Denmark (even cheaper than in Germany):
http://www.refako.dk/index.php?cPath=89_890000987_890001026_890001027&tPath=85
Wow - great info, Dan, many thanks. That will be the place to buy.
Thanks
Found this on the net: When you first fit Koni Sport shocks, you drive your car about 300 Kilometers with the softest adjustment. After completing these 300 kilometers, you go for a second adjustment and let your Koni Sport shocks adjusted exactly as you like.
Having the ability of adjusting the stiffness of your suspension shocks 'to a level that you exactly like' is a pleasant feature. In fact you can adjust all 4 shocks separately for a precise balance.
8741 (front) can be adjusted directly on the car 3 clicks, 26 Series range limited to 2 clicks and need to be unmounted (rear)
http://www.koni.com/193.html
I'm considering to try the rear once just making a loop on the pipes from the tandem pump, if I'm happy with the result, then switch the pump later on.
Having the ability of adjusting the stiffness of your suspension shocks 'to a level that you exactly like' is a pleasant feature. In fact you can adjust all 4 shocks separately for a precise balance.
8741 (front) can be adjusted directly on the car 3 clicks, 26 Series range limited to 2 clicks and need to be unmounted (rear)
http://www.koni.com/193.html
I'm considering to try the rear once just making a loop on the pipes from the tandem pump, if I'm happy with the result, then switch the pump later on.
Keep in mind that KONI only allows rebound damping adjustment. The compression damping is not adjustable unless you have them custom modified.
Yes, that's what I thought too due to the low price on them. I would like to have gas pressure adjustment, but for a test it's quite cheap though.
The adjustment is similar as I had on the Konis on my motorbike in the 1980's!
Looping the pipes for test purposes is a good solution, but we have to find the right tube fitting. Please let's stay in contact on this, Dan.-a-
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Jono, just curious, were you using KONI Reds or Yellows? I've heard the Reds are NLA now.
Taddaaaa:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Koni-Sportst...017813747?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item3375b032f3
Still Available in Germany as it seems.
188€ for
I will go for Kayaba Ultra-SR for Front most likely, had them in my 190E 2.6 and the ride was perfect with HR40mm lowering springs (which i also have in my 500E).
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Installation of rear Koni's
I started out looping the oil pipe from the tandem pump:
Then I released the pipe on the strunts
What a mess
Removal
Koni comes with mounting, it's smaller than the Mercedes ones
Installations is not easy as I set my Koni's at level 2 (hardest) I needed to push them just to get them into the LCA
And again push them in the top, this was the hardest part
But I managed to get it all done
Something I didnt expect, the part number on the old struts was A2013260192 I checked the number on EPC and it was unknown, it only list A1243200356 and A1243204213
After installing my Koni's, the rear end lowered ~3 cm more.
(The car has H&R, Koni's + 1-point pads at the the rear and 4-point at the front)
Test Drive: I'm actual very happy with the results, the car has much more feeling with the road and it's actual still comfortable. So I'm planning deleting the SLS, installing a 400E/500SEL pump and remove the old pipes.
I started out looping the oil pipe from the tandem pump:
Then I released the pipe on the strunts
What a mess
Removal
Koni comes with mounting, it's smaller than the Mercedes ones
Installations is not easy as I set my Koni's at level 2 (hardest) I needed to push them just to get them into the LCA
And again push them in the top, this was the hardest part
But I managed to get it all done
Something I didnt expect, the part number on the old struts was A2013260192 I checked the number on EPC and it was unknown, it only list A1243200356 and A1243204213
After installing my Koni's, the rear end lowered ~3 cm more.
(The car has H&R, Koni's + 1-point pads at the the rear and 4-point at the front)
Test Drive: I'm actual very happy with the results, the car has much more feeling with the road and it's actual still comfortable. So I'm planning deleting the SLS, installing a 400E/500SEL pump and remove the old pipes.
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That is not the part number of the strut. Is the part number of the dust boot, which is not available separately.
Nicely done..and it does ride well, doesn't it..
Just a FWIW, but the fender wells in these cars clean up Very nicely w/ a power washer and a quick wipe down.
View attachment 11694
Hi.
That was a clean and good looking wheel well.
Is that blue tool a fender arc roller?-a-
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