FYI Behr, OE, and Denso Radiators for the W124.036/.034 are all NLA

[195910]

Moderator update: The Denso radiator is NLA (See post #19 below). The OE/Genuine radiator is NLA and the OEM/Behr/Mahle is also NLA. Thread title updated. Affected radiator part numbers for 034/036 chassis:

124-500-03-02​

124-500-14-02​

As of October 2023, the only available new radiator is Nissens #62679A, link.


Hello everyone,

Any experience with the Denso radiator for the W124036? Denso is well proven in the Gulf desert condition (on Toy-otas), but I never seen this radiator on the 124036.
Any thoughts on this?

Thank you.

 

[gerryvz]

Not sure I've ever seen a Denso radiator for the 036. I thought only Behr and Nissens made them. Can you provide more details (part number, where to buy, etc.)?

 

[195910]

Not sure I've ever seen a Denso radiator for the 036. I thought only Behr and Nissens made them. Can you provide more details (part number, where to buy, etc.)?

DRM17039 Cooling Radiators for MERCEDES-BENZ | DENSO

DRM17039 for MERCEDES-BENZ E-CLASS (W124), E 500 (124.036), 235kW(320ps), M 119.974 (1245000302 1245001402) Search for a part number or enter your make and model. In our catalogue you will find all the possible components.

www.denso-am.eu

Denso DRM17039

 

[Alphasud40]

All the recent Denso radiators I bought for other makes were China built. Looks like the part is being discontinued and subject to remaining stock.

 

[195910]

All the recent Denso radiators I bought for other makes were China built. Looks like the part is being discontinued and subject to remaining stock.

I suspect its Made in China. But then, isn't everything?

OE and Behr is NLA right now.

 

[gsxr]

Someone will need to buy a Denso and report on the build quality, along with some photos.

Probably worth contacting RENNtech Classic and see what they want to resurrect their 124.034/.036 all-aluminum radiators, now that OE and OEM/Behr are NLA.

I thought Nissens was still available though?

 

[asultan]

Someone will need to buy a Denso and report on the build quality, along with some photos.

Probably worth contacting RENNtech Classic and see what they want to resurrect their 124.034/.036 all-aluminum radiators, now that OE and OEM/Behr are NLA.

I thought Nissens was still available though?

Not sure if this works with .034/.036 but CSF has a radiator for V8 R129? CSF Cools The Modern-Classic SL500 Mercedes

 

[gsxr]

Not sure if this works with .034/.036 but CSF has a radiator for V8 R129? CSF Cools The Modern-Classic SL500 Mercedes

R129 radiator won't work in the W124, we'd need CSF to make a replica for the 034/036... which would be fabulous if they did...

 

[Alphasud40]

CSF is also China made. I think for that matter they are all made in China and possibly at the same plant.

 

[szvook]

Ron Davis can make an all aluminum radiator for our cars, he just needs an original radiator sent in, which I happen to have. I spoke to Ron a few years ago about it, but it’s not cheap. He also suggested his radiator with electric fans, but I don’t think it will fit, as it’s about 6 inches thick.

 

[gsxr]

CSF is also China made. I think for that matter they are all made in China and possibly at the same plant.

Ahhhh, that explains it. I thought $550 seemed awfully reasonable. I wonder what the kwality/longevity is on the R129 CSF.

Ron Davis can make an all aluminum radiator for our cars, he just needs an original radiator sent in, which I happen to have. I spoke to Ron a few years ago about it, but it’s not cheap.

Did he have a ballpark? A couple decades ago, the RENNtech unit was $1225 per their 1998 catalog... guessing inflation could make that 50% more or worse.

He also suggested his radiator with electric fans, but I don’t think it will fit, as it’s about 6 inches thick.

Electric fans are an entirely separate discussion. I wouldn't use any aftermarket fan; almost without exception they are too small, too noisy, and don't move enough air. However, there are some OE electric fans that are fantastic, which can be used with aftermarket infinite/variable speed controllers. IIRC, @Beater400E has a setup like this on his 034. The trick is finding an appropriately-sized OE fan that doesn't look funky (sticking up above the radiator, for example) on the E500E, and also will clear the M119 pulleys.

 

[Beater400E]

IIRC, @Beater400E has a setup like this on his 034. The trick is finding an appropriately-sized OE fan that doesn't look funky (sticking up above the radiator, for example) on the E500E, and also will clear the M119 pulleys.

Yes I do. It works extremely well. Some details here:

Post in thread 'The $400 400E' The $400 400E | 400E / E420 Discussions

Feel free to reach out if you want to know more.

 

[szvook]

Did he have a ballpark? A couple decades ago, I think the RENNtech unit was ~$1200... guessing inflation could make that 50% more or worse.

About $2.5K without electric fans. His radiators with pull fans will never clear the viscous fan. From what I gather, currently there is maybe 3.5 inches of room between my radiator and the viscous fan. And he uses large electric fans, and yes they are noisy being inside the engine bay.

 

[195910]

Someone will need to buy a Denso and report on the build quality, along with some photos.

Probably worth contacting RENNtech Classic and see what they want to resurrect their 124.034/.036 all-aluminum radiators, now that OE and OEM/Behr are NLA.

I thought Nissens was still available though?

Nissens is scarcely available but can be found.

Denso is aluminum, I don't know about the quality. I think I will take one for the team.

 

[gsxr]

Denso is aluminum, I don't know about the quality. I think I will take one for the team.

The Denso web page says the "frame" is plastic... I'm guessing it's the same design as Behr/Nissens with plastic tanks:

 

[geraniumtr]

Dave, I put a Nissens in my 94 E320 a few months ago. Forget where I sourced it, have to look. However I noticed the plastic elbow on top was weeping after just a couple of months. Spent maybe $15 on a factory part and no more weeping. The O ring was pinched.

Regards,

Peter

 

[chicky]

CSF is also China made. I think for that matter they are all made in China and possibly at the same plant.

If I'm not mistaken, it's made in Indonesia.

 

[gerryvz]

Dave, I put a Nissens in my 94 E320 a few months ago. Forget where I sourced it, have to look. However I noticed the plastic elbow on top was weeping after just a couple of months. Spent maybe $15 on a factory part and no more weeping. The O ring was pinched.

Regards,

Peter

I had a Nissens many years ago in Texas, and I was not happy with it. I replaced it with a factory Behr in 2020.

 

[195910]

The Denso Radiator did not arrive, there was an error in the inventory records.
It is officially NLA.

A new Mahle Behr was found, one of the last in Germany.

 

[Beater400E]

I reached out to CSF this morning to see if maybe they'd be interested in producing radiators for us. I have a CSF in my built Jeep Cherokee and have been very pleased with it. Cherokees are notorious for running hot, especially with big tires and stroker engines, and the CSF has held up very well for the 7 or 8 years I've had it. It has definitely helped with cooling performance. I doubt they'll be interested just based on the low volume demand, but if anything does come of it I'll be sure to post it.

 

[asultan]

I reached out to CSF this morning to see if maybe they'd be interested in producing radiators for us. I have a CSF in my built Jeep Cherokee and have been very pleased with it. Cherokees are notorious for running hot, especially with big tires and stroker engines, and the CSF has held up very well for the 7 or 8 years I've had it. It has definitely helped with cooling performance. I doubt they'll be interested just based on the low volume demand, but if anything does come of it I'll be sure to post it.

for lack of a better way to say this but “manufacturing aside” i know bmw and porsche guys love their stuff

 

[Beater400E]

for lack of a better way to say this but “manufacturing aside” i know bmw and porsche guys love their stuff

I honestly don't know, but would assume they manufacture in Asia. Most likely mainland China. The radiator in my Cherokee is brass, so I can't even speak to the quality of their aluminum radiators. Chinese manufacturing can produce some very high quality stuff if thats what they're contracted to do, and if appropriate quality assurance is in place, so I hesitate to condemn a product based solely on its country of origin or price tag.

I think it's a safe bet that the cooling performance of a fabricated aluminum radiator would be better than stock. If the construction is at least "average" it would still be a great option, especially considering the relative lack of other options.

Probably moot though. I'm guessing they won't want to pursue it.

 

[195910]

The situation is silly for the lack of a better term. Crucial Basic parts for M-B's most sought after models are NLA.
In case you think they are only interested in high value parts, I am still looking for fuel pumps for a friend's SLR 722 ($3k each), its NLA since 2021 and no aftermarket replacement available. Its a known problem in the SLR, but M-B has no solution.

Thank God I don't have a "wartungstau" on any of the cars. I just bought a few more parts for the Baron and the C36 just in case these become NLA next week!

 

[nocfn]

I bought a behr for South Africa cars when I bought the car, and installed it a few months ago. My stock radiator weighed significantly more dry than the new Behr and I let it drain for quite a while overnight. My Dad (83 years old) installed a Nissens in his 94 e420 about 2 years ago and has not had any trouble at all with his. (YMMV)

 

[gerryvz]

I put a few side-by-side photos of my Nissens next to the new South Africa Behr radiators in my Engine Bay Refresh thread from 2020.

Link to radiator comparo post here.

What I didn't like about the Nissens was that the connections for the transmission cooler weren't as stout as the Behr's were (I pointed this out in the photos). When I first installed the Nissens, when I lived in Texas, I had a hell of a time getting one of the transmission cooler lines to seal where it threaded onto the radiator. I REALLY had to crank it down. The Nissens also required a slight modification to the bracket to attach the hard line to the bottom of the radiator, as detailed in the link below. Not a huge deal. The Behr factory and South Africa aftermarket units also had metal reinforcements in the neck where the top hose attaches -- the Nissens do not.

The Nissens I got was an older unit that my friend and shop-owner Larry Gheorge of GR Auto Care in Spring, Texas sold me. It was a unit he'd ordered to put on a customer's car some years earlier, and the customer never paid him for it, so it was new in the box. I'd say it was probably 5-7 years old when I got it, and it was Denmark production. I detailed the HOW-TO of replacing the original MB Behr radiator with the Nissens in this thread, at the time (10 years ago):

HOW-TO: Replacing 500E/E500 Radiator | "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles

The following article is a how-to on replacing the radiator on an E500 or 500E. It should also apply equally to the 400E or E420, and generally speaking should also apply to any W124 car, with caveats. Part numbers: Radiator (same part for 036 and 034 chassis): 124 500 14 02 - Behr or...

www.500eboard.co

The South Africa Behr that I got in 2020 was a direct plug and play with the original Behr, and I didn't have to have the slight mod that I made to the Nissens for the hard line at the bottom.

 

[bb1]

Just bought for my r129 a Full Alloy Radiator (3Row) from AlloyWorks! 260$! Very good made in China.. if they would made one for 036!?

 

[gerryvz]

The factory radiator is the way to go:

Cooler - 1992-1993 Mercedes-Benz 400E (124-500-14-02) | Get Mercedes Parts

1992-1993 Mercedes-Benz 400E Cooler 124-500-14-02

www.getmercedesparts.com

From what I can see out there, unless folks are able to source NOS Behr South Africa radiators on eBay or via private sources, the Nissens radiator is going to be really the only viable option. Looks like the prices have gone up on them over the past few years, as well. The Nissens units are now basically the same cost as the MB part (through discount dealers).

I would not recommend, for quality reasons, going with the cheap Chinese Mahle-Behr radiator available at AutohauZ.

AutohauZ: Auto Parts Catalog | AutohausAZ

RM Yurropean: - Parts Search

FCP Yurro: Search for '1245001402' | FCP Euro

I paid $222.93 for that South Africa Behr radiator back in 2020, ordered from RM Yurropean.

 

[gsxr]

The factory Mercedes radiators for 034/036 are NLA. The RevPart sites have not updated status yet, but if you try to order one, the order will be cancelled. There are zero in stock worldwide, unless a random dealer has one on a shelf somewhere.

Note the cheap Chinese Behr 034/036 radiator at AHAZ is "available to order"... I don't know if these are actually available, or NLA. As Gerry said, I wouldn't use one except as a last resort.

 

[gerryvz]

The factory Mercedes radiators for 034/036 are NLA. The RevPart sites have not updated status yet, but if you try to order one, the order will be cancelled. There are zero in stock worldwide, unless a random dealer has one on a shelf somewhere.

Note the cheap Chinese Behr 034/036 radiator at AHAZ is "available to order"... I don't know if these are actually available, or NLA. As Gerry said, I wouldn't use one except as a last resort.

I checked MB Classic parts availability TODAY and it returned that the radiator is available.

 

[195910]

I checked MB Classic parts availability TODAY and it returned that the radiator is available.

Not Available in Europe. Can you confirm if its available in the US?

 

[gerryvz]

If MB Classic’s web site says that the part is available, this means globally available Le through the entire MB parts network.

The MB Classic Parts web site is reporting that the radiator is available. There is a chance that the unavailable is very very recent (perhaps the past few days or couple of weeks at the most) so that it has not been yet updated.

But generally we have found this web site to be the official source of truth about any given part being or not being available. It is the authority that I trust, along with my local dealer.

In fact I will email my local dealer this morning and I should be able to confirm if the part is available or not to him.

 

[Jlaa]

Cool, thanks @gerryvz. I did not know that RevParts on MB Classic's website is accurate. MB Classic shows 124-500-14-02 on their website but does not show 124-500-03-02.






I wonder where MB has these radiators made now? The 124-500-03-02 that I got back in Jan/2023 from MB does not have any country of origin markings on it.

 

[gerryvz]

Not Available in Europe. Can you confirm if its available in the US?

If MB Classic’s web site says that the part is available, this means globally available Le through the entire MB parts network.

The MB Classic Parts web site is reporting that the radiator is available. There is a chance that the unavailable is very very recent (perhaps the past few days or couple of weeks at the most) so that it has not been yet updated.

But generally we have found this web site to be the official source of truth about any given part being or not being available. It is the authority that I trust, along with my local dealer.

In fact I will email my local dealer this morning and I should be able to confirm if the part is available or not to him.

Cool, thanks @gerryvz. I did not know that RevParts on MB Classic's website is accurate. MB Classic shows 124-500-14-02 on their website but does not show 124-500-03-02.

I didn't say anything or refer to MB's RevParts web site. I was referring to MB Classic Parts, which is at

Mercedes-Benz Classic Parts Search. Genuine Parts for Classics

Access to over 160,000 authentic genuine parts for Mercedes-Benz classics, including exclusive reproductions and discontinued parts, maufactured to the highest standards of quality and safety.

partssearch.mercedes-benz-classic.com

The RevParts site that I typically use, MB of Annapolis, at www.getmercedesparts.com, does show that the radiator is avaialble, but until I hear from the parts manager that it is, I do not believe RevParts sites. I DO, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THE MB CLASSIC PARTS SEARCH SITE.



Here is the same MB Classic Parts web site showing availability for the radiator:

 

[gerryvz]

I have requested status from MB Annapolis Parts, per Parts-B-Gon, as to both part numbers. Stand by, please.

 

[gsxr]

The MB Classic Parts web site is reporting that the radiator is available. There is a chance that the unavailable is very very recent (perhaps the past few days or couple of weeks at the most) so that it has not been yet updated.

This: ^^^

There's a delay of at least several weeks after inventory is depleted, before the MBCC website is updated. Note that almost all other radiators for the 124 have gone NLA in recent years, the 034/036 was/is one of the last (if not THE last) to sell out, likely due to less demand vs the sheer numbers of 6-cylinder 124's worldwide (million+, vs like 35k for the V8's).

In fact I will email my local dealer this morning and I should be able to confirm if the part is available or not to him.

I am curious what your dealer says. My dealer told me there were zero left in MB systems by the end of September, 2023. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there could be one or two floating around on a dusty back shelf at a dealership, but there are zero in MB warehouses and AFAIK there's no further production planned. If MB was going to bring back production, they'd have done it already with the high-volume 6-cylinder radiators. There should not be any substantial quantities available of either the 034 (#14) or 036 (#03) radiators.

124-500-03-02

124-500-14-02

 

[TimL]

Seeing that radiators are now difficult to come by, I'd be curious to know what folks are thinking of the aluminum radiator from Stern Garage:

W124 Aluminium Wasserkühler für Modelle mit M119 E500, 500E, E420, 400

Jetzt vorbestellen, Lieferzeit ca. 10-12 Wochen! Hiermit bieten wir Ihnen einen hochwertig verarbeiteten Aluminium-Wasserkühler für Ihren W124 mit M119 V8 Motor an. Passend für W124 E500, 500E, E420 und 400E. Bekanntermaßen neigt das Kühlsystem des M119 Motors dazu, insbesondere nach vielen...

stern-garage-shop.com

Price seems reasonable, considering that the MB radiator is close to $400 (if you can find it).

Maybe a group buy?

 

[gsxr]

Seeing that radiators are now difficult to come by, I'd be curious to know what folks are thinking of the aluminum radiator from Stern Garage:

W124 Aluminium Wasserkühler für Modelle mit M119 E500, 500E, E420, 400

Jetzt vorbestellen, Lieferzeit ca. 10-12 Wochen! Hiermit bieten wir Ihnen einen hochwertig verarbeiteten Aluminium-Wasserkühler für Ihren W124 mit M119 V8 Motor an. Passend für W124 E500, 500E, E420 und 400E. Bekanntermaßen neigt das Kühlsystem des M119 Motors dazu, insbesondere nach vielen...

stern-garage-shop.com

I didn't know SG offered one! Very interesting... and reasonably priced, I assume manufactured in Asia.

I'd like to see photos of the fitting for the vent / aeration line. Also note that since it's +17mm thicker, it will be very very close to the factory fan/clutch. There's normally only about 20-24mm air gap between the stock radiator and face of the clutch. With the "thick" radiator, you will not be able to R&R the clutch with the radiator in place. This will also reduce clearance with thick electric fans (i.e., trying to fit a later OE MB variable-speed fan).

I had measured the OE radiator core at 42mm thick but will measure again since SG shows 2mm thinner. The 1990's RENNtech radiator was similar thickness as SG, I measured 56mm / ~2.25" (+14mm thicker vs OE).

STERN GARAGE​

W124 aluminum water cooler for models with M119 E500, 500E, E420, 400E​

Technical details:​

• High-performance radiator net with net thickness 57mm (original 40mm)
• Precisely made for direct replacement (air conditioning cooler remains in place)
• Compatible with our electric fan kit
• Integrated transmission oil heat exchanger like original

Scope of delivery:​

• 1x high-performance water cooler suitable for W124 E500, 500E, E420 or 400E
• 1x banjo and banjo bolt for the upper vent line
• 1x drain plug

I also wonder what S&H would be across the pond... have a feeling it could be >$100 USD.

 

[Jlaa]

Seeing that radiators are now difficult to come by, I'd be curious to know what folks are thinking of the aluminum radiator from Stern Garage:

W124 Aluminium Wasserkühler für Modelle mit M119 E500, 500E, E420, 400

Jetzt vorbestellen, Lieferzeit ca. 10-12 Wochen! Hiermit bieten wir Ihnen einen hochwertig verarbeiteten Aluminium-Wasserkühler für Ihren W124 mit M119 V8 Motor an. Passend für W124 E500, 500E, E420 und 400E. Bekanntermaßen neigt das Kühlsystem des M119 Motors dazu, insbesondere nach vielen...

stern-garage-shop.com

Price seems reasonable, considering that the MB radiator is close to $400 (if you can find it).

Maybe a group buy?

That is a great find … and no plastic like the OE one! To be fair @gsxr, how often does one really face the need to R&R the fan clutch such that forced radiator removal in doing so becomes a burden?

 

[gerryvz]

I have requested status from MB Annapolis Parts, per Parts-B-Gon, as to both part numbers. Stand by, please.

Note that he did not say that the 14-02 part is NO LONGER AVAILABLE. This corresponds with what the MB Classic Parts site says -- that it is indeed available.

Too bad that the @gsxr is no longer in Boise -- he could have one of each radiator for his stash !!!

What do you want to bet that those radiators were probably ordered by MB Boise for the GSXR originally, and are sitting on a dusty back shelf there because he forgot to pick them up. It's just too coincidental that MB Boise would be the only dealership in the country to have both .034 and .036 radiators in stock, given the GSXR's fleet of cars........

In any case, there is one in the Fontana CA warehouse too. I'm sure all three will be snapped up by EOD from folks here.

 

[gsxr]

That is a great find … and no plastic like the OE one! To be fair @gsxr, how often does one really face the need to R&R the fan clutch such that forced radiator removal in doing so becomes a burden?

VERY rarely... but when you do need to pull the clutch, UGH. Radiator removal is a RPITA. I can get the fan out in <5 minutes otherwise. Pulling the clutch is needed (or, makes things much easier) for various other jobs on the front of the engine (air/smog pump, tandem pump, etc).

 

[195910]

Gentlemen I suggest you get that last radiator. None can be found in Europe.

 

[gerryvz]

I just had MB Annapolis check again - all three radiators have been sold already.

 

[gerryvz]

I was told that someone called up MB Boise on the phone, and purchased their two radiators on the spot with a credit card.

No question it was someone from this forum.

100% sure that the Fontana CA warehouse .034 radiator has been snapped up as well.

Expecting to see a few new in box MB radiators being sold on this forum for $5,000 apiece.

 

[TimL]

For that you could get 10 sets of zoom tubes. Or 6.6 500 E badges, based on current asking prices

 

[Jlaa]

100% sure that the Fontana CA warehouse .034 radiator has been snapped up as well.

That radiator will be probably be dropped shipped from SoCal to NorCal too, without ever leaving the state, even though the vendor is probably not in California.

 

[gerryvz]

Well, I shared the information here as a courtesy, just as I received it. Seems the hoarding mentality continues......

 

[bb1]

The SternGarage one looks in the Details and how some stuff is made, the same as the AlloyWorks for the r129!
Just for 036

 

[195910]

I was told that someone called up MB Boise on the phone, and purchased their two radiators on the spot with a credit card.

No question it was someone from this forum.

100% sure that the Fontana CA warehouse .034 radiator has been snapped up as well.

Expecting to see a few new in box MB radiators being sold on this forum for $5,000 apiece.

Could be an algorithm using the forum in its library?

 

[Jlaa]

Could be an algorithm using the forum in its library?

That's Chat-GSXR!

 

[Draginev]

The SternGarage one looks in the Details and how some stuff is made, the same as the AlloyWorks for the r129!
Just for 036

Then someone will hoard the radiators that SG have in his inventory and also sell for 5k $. This is very unpleasant experience. If there was any smart substitution, one might delete the hoarders out of equations?