Camshaft Adjuster Magnet leaking

[dado95]

Hi all

I found today after taking plastic covers on the front part of engine, that there is all oil leak sorunding camshaft magnet. Not sure if the magnet itslef is leaking or something else? Oil is all over crank position sensor, camshaft sensor and all the way to engine. What would be the symptoms of them if not all ok?

 

[jhodg5ck]

pretty common.. not a hard job, but while doing the drivers side one that's a great time to take care of the gasket and piece of hose that feeds the pump from reservoir.

There is a special goo MB wants you to use, it's orange and works Very nicely. Pricey, but again, worth it.

Doesn't so much cause problems as just being unsightly.

Can contaminate the connector if it gets REALLY bad.

Jonathan

 

[gsxr]

Photos of the cam solenoid re-seal are at this link:

http://www.w124performance.com/images/M ... _solenoid/

PLEASE use the correct MB sealant shown in the photo. RTV will probably not fix the leak and it's a nightmare to clean off the surfaces if the job has to be repeated. The PO of one of my cars used RTV and it still leaked. I haven't had any problems when using the correct anaerobic sealant on clean dry surfaces. Make sure to get all the old gunk off; a small wire brush works well. Apply the special sealant to the bolt threads too.

The solenoid itself can leak oil out the connector (or between the two halves of the metal solenoid body). While it's off you could try cleaning the connector area and applying a bead of sealant between the brown plastic connector and metal body; then letting it set overnight before installing back on the engine with the MB sealant. New solenoids are ~$150 each, make sure you get the proper part number if replacing them.

 

[dado95]

Tnx for advice, I will try to fix all at once this month.

Yesterday I also checked caps, and rotors. They are in pretty bad shape. Driver side is almost ok, but passenger side is really bad. Thats why i have poor idle, I suppose. That and bad fuel pressure regulator that I must replace also.

[attachment=0:2db4dkhh]driver-side.jpg[/attachment:2db4dkhh]
[attachment=1:2db4dkhh]passenger-side.jpg[/attachment:2db4dkhh]

Can you verify part numbers MB dealer vs. Bosch

fuel pressure regulator A000 078 18 89 - Bosch 0 280 160 587 (do I need to ored some extra parts, eg. seal or something)
distributor cover A119 158 01 88 - Bosch ???
distributor cap A119 158 01 02 - Bosch 1 235 522 430
distributor rotor A119 158 0331 - Bosch 1 235 522 422
new rotor bracket A119 158 06 40 - Bosch ???
seal ring A020 997 0548 - Bosch ???

 

[gerryvz]

Those caps are definitely in bad shape. Those are some gnarly arcing tracks. You will notice a huge difference replacing them and the rotors.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Rudy]

whats the P/N and price of the magnet?

 

[gsxr]

The original is PN 104-050-01-77, dealer MSRP = $190, parts.com $137 (USD).

Be careful buying from aftermarket vendors, they show them for ~$75/ea, but these are the new style magnets (119-051-01-77) which require also replacing the armature (111-051-00-43) at the same time, also replacing the stretch bolt (104-990-10-04). This is the cheaper solution though... but none of the aftermarket vendors mention the armature difference.

Details here:
http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/w124CD1/Program/Engine/119/05-2175.pdf

 

[Rudy]

I will go for the OE, of course.
I believe it does not make any difference whether its for the right or left side and I don't have to change both sides, right?

Thanks,
Rudy

 

[samiam44]

Yes you can only replace one camshaft magnet- don't have to do the pair. Doing the passenger side is easy. If I were to replace one, I'd do the driver's side as it's behind the PS resevior. The aftermarket gasket for the power steering reservoir is 2-3 bucks where the factory gasket is about $30! No need to spend 10x for the factory gasket, the aftermarket one works fine. Then, you can try and put the best one of the old magnets on the passenger side. Easy to replace if it continues to be problematic.

Thanks on the parts difference note Dave! I thought the aftermarket was sneaky in showing one for all M119/M104 engines and not the different early vs late(96+) cars.
Distributor cover? Sealing ring? Check the insulator carefully as they can give missing too.

Dave: What's the sealing ring under the camshaft positional sensor on the Driver's bank. Seems like they weep just a bit on both of my cars. Special o-ring. Dallas PP didn't have it instock which means is VERY uncommon to replace. They generally have a really large stock of odd-ball old stuff.

 

[jano]

I'm still a bit confused on the camshaft solenoid area - covered a similar (if not same) topic here in the later part of the thread.

Dave suggests a reseal. Is there a chance that will make the leak go away, or should one just replace the parts?

 

[gsxr]

It's a 50/50 chance. Sometimes they just need a re-seal, but if you re-seal and it still leaks (often from the connector area), then they will need replacement. Sometimes just re-sealing works fine. If the connector area is bone dry but there is oil present at the bottom edge of the solenoid, most likely re-sealing will work fine. If the connector area is very oily, it's back to the 50/50 shot. Unfortunately there is no simple test.

For the record, I've re-sealed a bunch of these things, and most of the time that has eliminated or significantly reduced the oil leak. If there is any remaining leak from the connector area, it is usually pretty minor, but over time will muck things up in that area as the fan blows dirt onto the thin film of oil, etc...

 

[jano]

Happy new year! You are right, the one on the passenger side is easy, took all of 20 minutes (I thought I had to remove the rotor/caps so I spent extra 10 minutes cursing trying to get the stupid wires unplugged then realized it was not necessary).

The driver's side wouldn't be too hard, except one of the four star bolts (E8 torx) was mostly stripped! I was a bit bummed seeing it, I tried to unscrew it and made it a little worse. So had to abandon the driver's side for another time. What's a good way to get that bolt out? I've never done a tap/die thing or used a drill screw removal thingy, and guess I could get a right-angle dremel attachment and put a slice across the top for a flat head. Would this work: a little jb weld into an e8 sacrificial socket, and let it set while attached to the bolt? That way I don't get debris into the reservoir?

 

[samiam44]

wow that's sup-rising to see the E8 head stripped. Those thousing threads are Aluminum don't take much torque...so I would have expect it to fail first. I'd suggest buying a universal socket at lowes (kobalt) and giving it a try. Take a bolt and look at your american 12 point.. and metric. Perhaps you can find something a tad more snug. maybe a triple square? or something else will drive on.

How the heck are you going to put a slot in a bolt in the bottom of the PS resevior? By the way... are the threads on that bolt 6X1mm? 5X1mm? 1.25? 1.5 mm?

I'd suck out the PS fluid and simply put a plug(paper , rubber plug etc) to prevent derbris entering the pump.


Michael

 

[jano]

All bolts were incredibly tight, totally unexpected after having read in the FSM 8Nm. I'm finding the majority of bolts and screws all over my car are incredibly tight, drives me crazy.

I'm going to give the jb weld idea a try next weekend. If that doesn't work, I'll measure out the reservoir requirements and see if right-angle dremel attachment works. If not that, Dave suggested by email trying to drill out the bolt. I'm not sure what the threads are, I'll have to grab a new one for this either way you cut it.

 

[jano]

On my second try a few weeks ago: the jbweld idea didn't work, nor did bolt extractor sockets. I gave up, and put everything back together. Try three today proved successful: we hammered a 7mm hex socket over the striped e8, and got it free. Yay! I made sure to use proper torques on every bolt when reassembling.

However and unfortunately, one of the two 10mm standard hex-head bolts that holds the metal return line to the reservoir stripped into a circle-headed bolt! WTF?! It took about two hours to get that effer out (bolt extractor socket worked), and sadly, ended up snapping a small piece of the plastic run that helps keep the spark plug wires organized. Only a small cosmetic thing, but bugs me, grrr. Stoopid car.

On the good side, no more leaks! For now, anyway...

 

[bing]

Guys, trying to source leak with my mechanic today and it seems (according to him) it's coming from the area/underneath of part number "30" as shown above, section where cam solenoid and distributor sits which is attached to timing cover..Not sure what this section is called (EPC doesn't give description). But I'm not convinced as most here would suggest cam solenoid is most common source of leak in this area. Or is this another common source of leak?? As shown on the EPC no gasket on this part?

It's trickling down quite a bit around the oil pan. We cleaned it all around underneath, dried it and drove it hard for about 30mins but nothing visible except the above area.
Strange thing is, never ever i've had to top up engine oil or p/s fluid since owning this car with all the long trips as well.

 

[gsxr]

The front head cover (30 / 30a) rarely leaks as long as it was previously installed with the correct anaerobic sealant. Much more likely to be a leak from the cam solenoid. Sometimes the solenoid leaks between the two halves of the body, if that happens, you need to replace the solenoid to eliminate the leak.

To positively identify the source, you'll need to remove the distributor cap and black plastic shroud, clean the entire area bone dry with solvent and rags, then stuff clean white paper towels below the head cover (#30) and around the solenoid, and anywhere else suspicious. Drive the car for an hour or two, then take it apart again and see what paper towels have started to turn brown from engine oil.

 

[bing]

Cheers Dave! The cam solenoid (btw, were looking at the passenger side) is only weeping ,connector not even contaminated, but a lot coming from the head cover (#30). This why we/he believe it's coming from here. But I think I'll suggest reseal the cam solenoid first as it's weeping anyway, clean the area and try your tests for the head cover area - PITA if this is the culprit as the Valve cover has to come off to reseal this right?? ..and of course a new gasket.

 

[samiam44]

Yep,

New factory v/c gasket is the way to go. Good time to replace the cam seal and you'll need a new stretch bolt(?).

 

[Christian_K]

Actually one should be able to use sealants like Hylomar (M) for the solenoids. Those are also non-hardening and non setting sealing compounds that also don't form any little pieces that can later clog any oil lines.
Plus its x-times cheaper than the suggested Sealant. I fail to see why i should buy 50gramms sealant for 30€ at the dealer or the loctite/omifit for 27€ in the aftermarket world, when i can have Hylomar (a actually GREAT sealing compound) for less than 5€/80gramms

 

[gsxr]

We'll let you be the guinea pig, Christian. "Should be able to use" is not the same as "I've used sealant xxx for 5 years / 50kmi with no leaks". Let us know how it works out. I don't mind paying ~$30 USD for a tube of anaerobic sealant that will last me several years/engines.

 

[Christian_K]

Jupp, i will use it on my new M119 engine as i saw that adjusters are leaking. http://www.hylomar.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=99&Itemid=81
It should work just fine, i've used hylomar in lots of other applications when i want a "soft" sealing. Otherwise i always use "Dirko HT".

 

[emerydc8]

Anyone have a good source for the orange MB sealant A 002 989 47 20 10? Last time I checked my dealer they wanted $60 for a tube.

 

[gerryvz]

www.parts.com

 

[emerydc8]

Thanks, Gerry. I'm not seeing it when I input A 002 989 47 20 10 or Mercedes Sealant. Is there a particular section to search for it?

Jon

 

[gerryvz]

Type in the following number at the following URL: 002989472010

http://www.parts.com/parts/index.cf...ear=&searchText=&action=oePartSearch&siteid=2

The sealant comes up at a price of $22.20 and it will probably be $7-10 shipping and handling. Best to combine with some other parts on a single order.

In any case, it beats the price from your stealership.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[emerydc8]

Thanks! I ended up ordering the sealant and all the parts for a new windshield washer reservoir (other than the coil element and pump). Mine was looking pretty bad and was also leaking. The sales tax savings offsets the shipping. I'm sure it would have cost me more than $60 from my dealer. I'm surprised they had all the parts.

 

[gerryvz]

You will find that all of the parts will be shipped directly to your door from MBUSA warehouses, so of course MB would have the parts in stock (or would get from Germany and ship to you).

 

[emerydc8]

I didn't realize they were genuine MB parts. That's great. Thanks again!

 

[gerryvz]

I didn't realize they were genuine MB parts. That's great. Thanks again!

Read this thread. It will tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about ordering online parts, from what vendors, etc.

You can ONLY purchase factory MB parts through parts.com. You can purchase both factory parts (usually much more than via parts.com) and both crappy and good aftermarket parts via vendors like AutohausAZ.com. You have to be VERY careful what you buy when ordering from AHAZ. With parts.com, it's ONLY MB factory original parts so there are no worries about quality.

If/when you use a vendor like AutohausAZ.com, here is a list of parts vendors that can help as a guide about which are "OK" and which vendors to avoid. This is one of the most popular threads on this board.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[emerydc8]

"Victor Reinz (gaskets & seals) - generally consider good"

FYI: I installed a Victor Reinz valve cover gasket from Autohausaz and it leaked right out of the gate. A friend with a 92 500E contemporaneously did the same and his leaked as well (in the same spot). We were very careful to torque the bolts to spec. I will never use another Victor Reinz valve cover gasket. Maybe it was a bad batch, but I'm wondering how QC wouldn't have caught that.

Thanks again for the great info in that link.

I totally agree with URO being pure garbage. I can't believe they can even stay in business.

 

[Christian_K]

Where was the spot it leaked? Reinz is top notch.
Often they leak because morons try to open the valve-covers with flat-blade screwdrivers without realizing that there is still one bolt under the ignition-cable covers. And then you remove aluminum from the Gasket-spots on the heads - so it will leak.

 

[gerryvz]

I would consider both Victor Reinz and Elring to be 100% usable gaskets, and I would put either brand on my cars (as well as MB OE).

Here is an MB OE intake manifold gasket for the M117 ......

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?564-560SEC-top-end-rebuild&p=2555&viewfull=1#post2555

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

You have to be EXTREMELY meticulous about cleaning the valve cover sealing surfaces (both sides), and replacing the copper crush washers. Sealant should never, ever be used on these gaskets. If a previous mechanic slathered RTV all over, it will take hours to remove it all. (Don't ask how I know.)

With OE "Genuine" MB gaskets costing only a few bucks more than aftermarket, I never use aftermarket valve cover gaskets. Not worth the risk.

 

[emerydc8]

Both gaskets were leaking from the front right corners of the passenger side. We both made sure the mating surfaces were clean. I don't recall any copper crush washers. In both cases neither valve cover was leaking before removal. We both decided to change our upper timing chain guides at the same time and both ordered the Reinz gaskets from AutohausAz. Mine is still leaking, but it is only a few drops and I will eventually replace it with a factory gasket. My friend replaced his 500E with a factory gasket and the leak stopped.

 

[gsxr]

Hmmm... that might be part of the problem, hard to say for sure. Each of the bolts is supposed to have a copper washer between the bolt head, and the valve cover. The bolt itself is open to oil and oil can leak out at the head if the washer is not present. They are supposed to be single-use, and are cheap enough to replace (30 cents each at AZ?), but could be re-used in a pinch.

 

[emerydc8]

I reused the washers on the valve cover bolts and didn't realize they were "crush" washers. I don't recall them being copper though. Maybe you're right -- that this could have caused the leak. There was no leaking coming from the bolt heads.

 

[samiam44]

You should be able to see where it's leaking- is there oil at the gasket interface lower side where the timing chain is? I found the factory gaskets just stayed on the bloody v/c better which made installation much easier. And, torqued them once and no-leaky. Then gain, maybe my skills are just inproving on M119's. Really the gaskets stayed on the v/c.

Michael

 

[emerydc8]

You should be able to see where it's leaking- is there oil at the gasket interface lower side where the timing chain is? I found the factory gaskets just stayed on the bloody v/c better which made installation much easier. And, torqued them once and no-leaky. Then gain, maybe my skills are just inproving on M119's. Really the gaskets stayed on the v/c.

Michael

You are absolutely right! The Victor Reinz gaskets did not stay on the VC nearly as well as the factory. I had a difficult time keeping the gasket in place on the back, but it's not leaking there. It's leaking on the exhaust side front right corner, above the tensioner, where the chain would likely be throwing oil at the gasket. I retorqued the bolts slightly but didn't want to go more than a few nm above the specs. It slowed the leak enough to make it a nuisance.

 

[yanzy]

hi verry one am yanzy am anew member i wana say this is a beast wep for E 500 efance and am thankfully t0 let me joining .

 

[Christian_K]

We'll let you be the guinea pig, Christian. "Should be able to use" is not the same as "I've used sealant xxx for 5 years / 50kmi with no leaks". Let us know how it works out. I don't mind paying ~$30 USD for a tube of anaerobic sealant that will last me several years/engines.

Found a perfect product with the same characteristics as the dealer sealant/Loctite/Omnifit.
Its called "Würth Flächendicht Orange" or in english "Würth Flange sealant orange". Price is 19€ on average for 50ml.

Product sheets (eng):
http://wueko.wuerth.com/cgi-bin/wu_...;;;;06688;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;13484837410770
http://wueko.wuerth.com/cgi-bin/wu_...;;;;06681;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;13484837410770

 

[Ron500E]

Found a perfect product with the same characteristics as the dealer sealant/Loctite/Omnifit.
Its called "Würth Flächendicht Orange" or in english "Würth Flange sealant orange". Price is 19€ on average for 50ml.

Product sheets (eng):
http://wueko.wuerth.com/cgi-bin/wu_...;;;;06688;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;13484837410770
http://wueko.wuerth.com/cgi-bin/wu_...;;;;06681;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;13484837410770

Hello:

I believe that Wurth is an OEM supplier to M-B. Wurth is one of the few companies that I NEVER had ANY problems with their products, been using them for 15+ years. Totally 100% satisfied.

Kind Regards,

Ron

 

[gsxr]

Sounds like good stuff, but the price is the about same as the OE sealant... at least in USA (002-989-47-20-10 is ~$25 USD wholesale for 50mL).

 

[Christian_K]

Sounds like good stuff, but the price is the about same as the OE sealant... at least in USA (002-989-47-20-10 is ~$25 USD wholesale for 50mL).

Yes in the US... but not in Germany. First we dont have any wholesale where an individual (ie non-company) has access to and second the price is 30€ without VAT at the dealer (with 19%$ VAT its close to 40€). So this is significant. Even Loctites product is at the cheapest online-dealer 27€+shipping... So the 19€ is a nice discount + i like the packaging and more easy of application of Würths Version more.

Hello:

I believe that Wurth is an OEM supplier to M-B. Wurth is one of the few companies that I NEVER had ANY problems with their products, been using them for 15+ years. Totally 100% satisfied.

Kind Regards,

Ron

Yes and Würth even has top-notch tools too. Its a very good quality and reputable German company.

 

[DW SD]

thanks ALL for the information here. I've ordered the magic orange sealant. I'll do the cam / distributor seals at the same time. And straight hose from the power steering reservoir.

Doug

 

[gsxr]

Here is a minor update on the solenoid saga. Over the past few years I have discovered that the cam solenoids can leak oil from 3 different places:

1) The sealing surface between the back of the solenoid and the engine
2) Around the plastic electrical connector
3) Between the two halves of the metal solenoid body, which are riveted together (<-- most difficult to pinpoint)

Removing and re-sealing takes care of #1 above. While the solenoid is off the engine you can apply a bead of silicone RTV around the connector to try and cure any leaking for #2. However if you experience #3... which I have... you must either replace the solenoid, or you can apply a bead of RTV around the bottom circumference of the solenoid AFTER it is installed with the fancy MB orange sealant. This isn't ideal and isn't pretty, but it has a pretty decent success rate, and is not too difficult to scrape off when you need to remove the solenoid later on (unlike what happens if RTV is used to seal the solenoid to the engine, which can be a disaster when you try to remove it). I've done this on a couple solenoids, but I need to take a photo. New solenoids would be the proper fix but I have a hard time coughing up $300 when the old ones are working fine but just leaking slightly, and if a few bucks of externally-applied sealant will plug the leak.

 

[DW SD]

I resealed the drivers side cam advance solenoid tonight when I had the power steering reservoir apart to replace the short hose between the pump and reservoir. I tried the black Mercedes sealant instead of the orange loc title 574. So far so good.

BTW - Jono said the black stuff is also sold as "The Right Stuff".

 

[8899]

While the solenoid is off the engine you can apply a bead of silicone RTV around the connector to try and cure any leaking for #2. However if you experience #3... which I have... you must either replace the solenoid, or you can apply a bead of RTV around the bottom circumference of the solenoid AFTER it is installed with the fancy MB orange sealant.

I thought I read elsewhere that using RTV is NOT recommended for this and instead one should use an anaerobic sealant such as Loctite 574. Do you mind clarifying please?

 

[8899]

Found it...see post #17 here:

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...airs-suggestions&p=10613&viewfull=1#post10613

 

[gsxr]

I thought I read elsewhere that using RTV is NOT recommended for this and instead one should use an anaerobic sealant such as Loctite 574. Do you mind clarifying please?

That is correct. DO NOT use any RTV product to seal the rear solenoid surface to the head cover. Bad, bad idea.

What I'm saying is that if you install the solenoid with the anaerobic sealant, and you still get a leak, the leak may be from the seam between the two halves of the solenoid housing... I have seen several do this. You can either replace the entire solenoid (despite that fact that it works fine), or you can apply an external bead of RTV around the lower circumference of the solenoid. This can be peeled off later and will not inhibit removal, but it will probably still be a nuisance to fully clean off. Since it's external, there is no worry about RTV dingleberries getting inside the motor.

I need to get a picture... 1000 words, etc...