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Engine still skipping a beat every few seconds
- Thread starter Jelmer
- Start date
Holy shitsnacks! Just got pricing of all components:
OEM fuel pumps are €248 each, Bosch €180. Coils are €123 each !?
I most likely can't use the offers written at http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?2278-Bosch-fuel-pumps-reduced-price, so I'm thinking of ordering via eBay. For example: http://www.ebay.nl/itm/ORIGINAL-BOS...729204025?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item51a916f139, if they are original Bosch, that should be OK, right?
Anyone have part numbers of the coils? So I can check eBay for those, as well?
OEM fuel pumps are €248 each, Bosch €180. Coils are €123 each !?
I most likely can't use the offers written at http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?2278-Bosch-fuel-pumps-reduced-price, so I'm thinking of ordering via eBay. For example: http://www.ebay.nl/itm/ORIGINAL-BOS...729204025?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item51a916f139, if they are original Bosch, that should be OK, right?
Anyone have part numbers of the coils? So I can check eBay for those, as well?
Fat chance! A broken promise it will be so don't bother, mate!
Yep, nothing cheap for 036s anymore.
Holy shitsnacks!Hmmm....doesn't sound like a very tasty snack to me. No thanks, I think I'll pass...
Amazon.com has had the best price on fuel pumps; have a US pal order the components on Amazon, and then ship them over
Holy shitsnacks!Hmmm....doesn't sound like a very tasty snack to me. No thanks, I think I'll pass...
Amazon.com has had the best price on fuel pumps; have a US pal order the components on Amazon, and then ship them over
Jelmer, you think those Dutch prices are high?? Come over to Morepay and buy one fuel pump for €530, and that is with 20% discount...
I've purchsed fuel pumps, fuel filter and several other parts from different vendors in the US and got a very kind person to collect the items, repack in one box, and ship it over. Since it is a private package you must not leave any receipts inside. Then you put up a tenth of the cost as a value on the shipping docs to save import tax/VAT, but high enough so the custom just expedite without opening the box. You just have to give them something so it doesn't trigger any inspection.
(...the shitsnack must be some left over from Harry Potter and those strange tasting beans. I'm sure Site Honcho would enjoy a dose with mushroom taste..
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Here is an update with my misfire situation:
The dealer shop foreman supposedly tested all possible things that could be related to fuel and ignition, including cam and crank sensors the CAN wiring, all the modules and contacts.
they tried a new MAF, ignition wiring to see if it would make a difference, which it did not.
They were getting misfire on 2 cylinders only when car is hot and finally decided to try swapping one of the caps from where the misfire was happening. This cap was a 3 months new MB part from a dealer. According to them after they replaced that all problems went away.
So far the final conclusion is: a defective cap was causing the problems and let me recap for how things started:
Loss of power when warm as if one whole bank was gone. Coincidentally shortly after the new caps and rotors were installed.
I had cleaned up the rotors and caps and the problem disappeared for 3 weeks after it came back (I thought it was the spark plug connectors at the time which were dirty and I also cleaned).
I have made it clear to the dealer that they if the problem comes back they will have to deal with it until it is resolved.
The issue will be closed if in 3 months of driving there are no problems.
I'd love to hear if anyone has had an MB OE cap fail.
The dealer shop foreman supposedly tested all possible things that could be related to fuel and ignition, including cam and crank sensors the CAN wiring, all the modules and contacts.
they tried a new MAF, ignition wiring to see if it would make a difference, which it did not.
They were getting misfire on 2 cylinders only when car is hot and finally decided to try swapping one of the caps from where the misfire was happening. This cap was a 3 months new MB part from a dealer. According to them after they replaced that all problems went away.
So far the final conclusion is: a defective cap was causing the problems and let me recap for how things started:
Loss of power when warm as if one whole bank was gone. Coincidentally shortly after the new caps and rotors were installed.
I had cleaned up the rotors and caps and the problem disappeared for 3 weeks after it came back (I thought it was the spark plug connectors at the time which were dirty and I also cleaned).
I have made it clear to the dealer that they if the problem comes back they will have to deal with it until it is resolved.
The issue will be closed if in 3 months of driving there are no problems.
I'd love to hear if anyone has had an MB OE cap fail.
Glad to hear they found it, I hope it's solved, now! My previous set of caps also lasted a very short time, but that was due to that insulation bit below it.
My issue is completely reversed, by the way. When I drove in Germany and the engine was nice and hot, it ran smooth as silk. No stumble, no noise, NOTHING. But when I start it now, it's more wobbly than ever
I need to replace my coils, but can't find the time :-/
My issue is completely reversed, by the way. When I drove in Germany and the engine was nice and hot, it ran smooth as silk. No stumble, no noise, NOTHING. But when I start it now, it's more wobbly than ever
I need to replace my coils, but can't find the time :-/
Similar thing happened to Bendover years back IIRC. only his was a defective Rotor , and he too pulled his hair out trying to solve this :
read here : http://500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1347-Misfire-rough-after-sitting
When I drove in Germany and the engine was nice and hot, it ran smooth as silk. No stumble, no noise, NOTHING. But when I start it now, it's more wobbly than ever
Jb, sounds like you need to move across the border. Think your car likes to be driven hard ! ;-);-)
I hope that solves it too.
But I still don't have my car. They tested many things and messed something up with the SRS so there is no communication between the SRS and the computer. They are sorting it out now.
I have been driving a C300 as a loaner and despite the great handling and gadgetry I cant wait to get my car back.
But I still don't have my car. They tested many things and messed something up with the SRS so there is no communication between the SRS and the computer. They are sorting it out now.
I have been driving a C300 as a loaner and despite the great handling and gadgetry I cant wait to get my car back.
So I am wondering what did try do to trigger the light? They might have unplugged the module at one point. Maybe just clearing the code will do it.
I will send them this info and lets see what happens. I am surprised these people are so poorly informed about the old systems. Some of them were around when these cars were new.
I just can't wait to move to the next project and get this ordeal over with.
I will send them this info and lets see what happens. I am surprised these people are so poorly informed about the old systems. Some of them were around when these cars were new.
I just can't wait to move to the next project and get this ordeal over with.
If the SRS light is on, they will need to check the codes with an analog blink code reader (this is in the WIS, if they need to look it up, or it's in my DTC PDF).
If there's no SRS warning light on, and they are just concerned that SDS won't talk to it, I'd forget about it.
If there's no SRS warning light on, and they are just concerned that SDS won't talk to it, I'd forget about it.
What info would you like? I've had this stumbling issue ever since I got the car, two years back. It became slightly worse recently, with the hiccups occurring every few seconds. Felt like a cylinder not firing, which was especially noticeable at idle and revs below 2k when standing still. Everything else had been changed already (wiring, spark plugs, distributor caps+insulation plates, and then some) so this was the only thing that remained.
Well, this and the fuel pumps that were replaced, but since I managed to cruise at 240-260 easily, I didn't feel like I had a lack of power
Well, this and the fuel pumps that were replaced, but since I managed to cruise at 240-260 easily, I didn't feel like I had a lack of power
What info would you like? I've had this stumbling issue ever since I got the car, two years back. It became slightly worse recently, with the hiccups occurring every few seconds. Felt like a cylinder not firing, which was especially noticeable at idle and revs below 2k when standing still. Everything else had been changed already (wiring, spark plugs, distributor caps+insulation plates, and then some) so this was the only thing that remained.
Well, this and the fuel pumps that were replaced, but since I managed to cruise at 240-260 easily, I didn't feel like I had a lack of power
No no, we cannot take Jelmer's word on this.. results might be affected by the presence of heineken cans near the car
I will personally test his car and confirm to everyone the results, hence taking glory for solving the 500E's occasional hiccup problem ....
Excellent, so the long term myth that is often portrait, that the coils have only 2 conditions - working or not working - is finally busted.
They can and do wear over time, producing issues like a skipping every few seconds.
They can and do wear over time, producing issues like a skipping every few seconds.
Ok so finally!!!!! I got the car back in the 90 degree heat here and no issues with skipping, hesitation at idle or misfire at load. The culprit was a 2 month old defective ignition rotor. I did not see it when I checked them, but there were microscopic areas in the rotor plastic that turned from glossy to matte and were really mushy where the spark had been hitting. Unfortunately these are black and I simply neither see it nor suspected it.
At the end it ended up being the simplest thing of course!
At the end it ended up being the simplest thing of course!
Al right guys , it seems all of you solved the issue with the skipping engine but I just got this issue ...
Here is the story.
A week ago car was fine (slightly rough idling that you usually feel by your butt )
I found out that our 500E should have NON resistor spark plugs , so I decided to replace them for OEM (thinking about FURTHER IMPROVEMENT) ...
1. I got the set of the spark plugs. Tried to install them when one of the wires on the back cylinder fell apart (wires appeared to be OEM factory) so that was right time to install a fresh (thought great idea, car will be better.....)
2. Got a set of Bosch wires that I tried to install. The passenger side was a little issue. It was REALLY hard to unplug the old wires so it seems I damaged little bit rotor cap (heard of little crack).
3. Removed all old wires and installed new wires along with the new spark plugs.
4. Started my 500E and it worked FINE. Test drove it for 40 miles - FINE. Parked it.
5. Morning on the following day .... Stated it fine , drove for an hour when I noticed skipping (not missfire but exactly skipping) at idling but car accelerated fine.
6. Two hours later tried to drive it and was really angry , it started to lose power exactly at the mid range 3000-4500 rpms. At this range a feel sort of the light vibration on the body and apparently losing power ...
Great .......
7. Came back home , parked the car and turned it off.
8. Started the car right away - it started FINE but right after 30-50 seconds of smooth idling it starts skipping (sort of sneezing when sit close to the exhaust pipe). It also feels like somebody shut of one or two cylinders for super short time and car shudders.... it skips once in 5 - 10 seconds .
I read the whole thread and it seems I got the same problem like Ivan did but the suspicious thing in my case is that I just did work on those parts and then I got an issue cuz before car was fine.
Another things which is weird is that it starts skipping right after 30-50 seconds of smooth idling ... why is it not skipping right away ?
Here is what was changed
Engine harness 10K miles ago (OEM)
Spark plugs 50 miles ago (OEM)
Ignition coil appx. 50K ago (OEM)
Spark plug wires 50 miles ago (Bosch)
P.S. Rotors appear to be good and clean (was replaced about appx. 30K miles ago and I cleaned them just in case).
the only problem with the rotor it has cracks inside of it but could it be the issue (probably because of the hard removed plugs) ?
Did not check that seal (plastic piece between the cap and engine).
I also did not check rotors itself. But I feel it should be something with what I did wires ? plugs ?
Everything is pretty much straight forward (what to do and check) but the only thing messed me up is point #8 ...
Please guys advise me what should I do since you already went through this annoying issue.
I want to do research myself before taking this "spoiled baby" to dealer and I really have to do research before cuz those guys charge $179 per hour and love to tell fairy tales so I should be prepared.
Why 500E is so nasty thing - trying to make it better but instead got new issues ........
Here is the story.
A week ago car was fine (slightly rough idling that you usually feel by your butt )
I found out that our 500E should have NON resistor spark plugs , so I decided to replace them for OEM (thinking about FURTHER IMPROVEMENT) ...
1. I got the set of the spark plugs. Tried to install them when one of the wires on the back cylinder fell apart (wires appeared to be OEM factory) so that was right time to install a fresh (thought great idea, car will be better.....)
2. Got a set of Bosch wires that I tried to install. The passenger side was a little issue. It was REALLY hard to unplug the old wires so it seems I damaged little bit rotor cap (heard of little crack).
3. Removed all old wires and installed new wires along with the new spark plugs.
4. Started my 500E and it worked FINE. Test drove it for 40 miles - FINE. Parked it.
5. Morning on the following day .... Stated it fine , drove for an hour when I noticed skipping (not missfire but exactly skipping) at idling but car accelerated fine.
6. Two hours later tried to drive it and was really angry , it started to lose power exactly at the mid range 3000-4500 rpms. At this range a feel sort of the light vibration on the body and apparently losing power ...
Great .......
7. Came back home , parked the car and turned it off.
8. Started the car right away - it started FINE but right after 30-50 seconds of smooth idling it starts skipping (sort of sneezing when sit close to the exhaust pipe). It also feels like somebody shut of one or two cylinders for super short time and car shudders.... it skips once in 5 - 10 seconds .
I read the whole thread and it seems I got the same problem like Ivan did but the suspicious thing in my case is that I just did work on those parts and then I got an issue cuz before car was fine.
Another things which is weird is that it starts skipping right after 30-50 seconds of smooth idling ... why is it not skipping right away ?
Here is what was changed
Engine harness 10K miles ago (OEM)
Spark plugs 50 miles ago (OEM)
Ignition coil appx. 50K ago (OEM)
Spark plug wires 50 miles ago (Bosch)
P.S. Rotors appear to be good and clean (was replaced about appx. 30K miles ago and I cleaned them just in case).
the only problem with the rotor it has cracks inside of it but could it be the issue (probably because of the hard removed plugs) ?
Did not check that seal (plastic piece between the cap and engine).
I also did not check rotors itself. But I feel it should be something with what I did wires ? plugs ?
Everything is pretty much straight forward (what to do and check) but the only thing messed me up is point #8 ...
Please guys advise me what should I do since you already went through this annoying issue.
I want to do research myself before taking this "spoiled baby" to dealer and I really have to do research before cuz those guys charge $179 per hour and love to tell fairy tales so I should be prepared.
Why 500E is so nasty thing - trying to make it better but instead got new issues ........
Roma, first of all relax! I'm sure the guys here will help resolve your issue as it's common, take things one at a time. Don't be disheartened, it's all part of 036 ownership and as you'll see from searching this board, most issues are common and at times it's just basic like Ivan's.
You highlighted the following :
If the cap is visibly cracked then change it. Start with that!
You highlighted the following :
If the cap is visibly cracked then change it. Start with that!
Thanx ! Support is exactly what you need with the 036
Yes I think I will start with the rotor cap and see where it goes
Yup , I think I should do that . I ve just ordered set from autohauz . Will write up whats gonna happen when I install all those fresh parts.
This is a 2 month old Mercedes OE rotor that made the whole mess with my car. If you look carefully you can see pores,holes, call it whatever you want, in the plastic where the spark was shorting- slightly to the left of the center you will see some black dots. The other side of the plastic crumbled when I poked at it.
So if you cracked something its definitely the first thing to start with.
A few things I learned:
If you do something and all of a sudden your car started acting up, the chances are it is exactly what you did that caused it.
Never throw away old, but working parts immediately in case the new ones are a problem
Replace parts one by one if you can especially electrical stuff so you can go back to what you did last.
If I was a bit smarter I would have suspected the new parts as being a potential issue but I just dismissed them.
So if you cracked something its definitely the first thing to start with.
A few things I learned:
If you do something and all of a sudden your car started acting up, the chances are it is exactly what you did that caused it.
Never throw away old, but working parts immediately in case the new ones are a problem
Replace parts one by one if you can especially electrical stuff so you can go back to what you did last.
If I was a bit smarter I would have suspected the new parts as being a potential issue but I just dismissed them.
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Thanx for your answer Ivan .
Right that what I think too.
However, the fact that fresh OE parts may cause the problems too (along with the old bad parts) drives me really crazy.
We do have old vehicles so as time goes by, everything is going to break and if the new parts are going to brake right away after few months it makes really hard to find an issue since usually you dismiss new parts right away. It turns out to be no matter what you replaced recently you still should keep that in mind along with the old parts that may fail .
Well, I learnt from few smart guys and from people here that cracks may cause malfunctioning due to electricity may go in wrong ways causing the skip or misfire.
I ve also noted that the cap plastic is clear coated inside and the rotor itself (on the image) is clear coated as well, I believe there is a reason for that.
Maybe it was made to prevent electricity to go in a wrong way somehow or anything else related to electrical malfunctioning.
Thus the cracks maybe the worst case causing the coating damage and plastic damage so the part won't work correctly. (not sure but it is all my guess)
I took out the cracked cap today and broke it apart to see what is inside . It looks pretty simple construction but the plastic and cracks in plastic could be really an issue.
Anyway, now waiting for new caps and rotors and then we will see what my spoiled kid wants after that ( I am sure it will demand something else)
P.S. With the 036 I feel myself as "Sherlock Holmes under the hood" .
I replaced my ignition wires and now all of my ignition system is completely new. Car idles great. I will follow up on this but I am wondering how many of our problems come from coils wires caps rotors or plugs? Looking back I should have just replaced all components on the high voltage side that I was sure were not recently replaced. It's true coils can be measured but I'd still get new ones just in case. If the low voltage side is a problem : EZL etc. it could get expensive but at least these are not wear items.
Thats cool !
I am waiting for my rotors and caps , should get them tmrw.
Once I will install caps and rotors my ignition will be pretty much new (updated) like yours ( but I ve already got a new coils ) .
I think it sounds too optimistic, with the .036 anyway something will come up pretty soon
P.S. I hope caps and rotors will fix the issue ...
Roma_500E said:Thats cool !
I am waiting for my rotors and caps , should get them tmrw.
Once I will install caps and rotors my ignition will be pretty much new (updated) like yours ( but I ve already got a new coils ) .
I think it sounds too optimistic, with the .036 anyway something will come up pretty soon
P.S. I hope caps and rotors will fix the issue ...
Haha as long as I'm the only one touching I am less worried
I am wondering if there are improvements to the wire technology in recent years. Seems the Bosch ones I got have silicon insulation and are quite shielded.
The installation instructions however say they should be kept as far from each other as possible which does not seem possible with the m119. I hope they are insulated enough
Haha as long as I'm the only one touching I am less worried
I am wondering if there are improvements to the wire technology in recent years. Seems the Bosch ones I got have silicon insulation and are quite shielded.
The installation instructions however say they should be kept as far from each other as possible which does not seem possible with the m119. I hope they are insulated enough
Yup , I got Bosch wires too and they look better than the Beru ones. Seems that they got some improvements.
It is really weird they said it should be far from each other cuz in front of the engine in those plastic path (goes left and right) there are super close to each other so apparently with M119 in is not possible unless you want to put them in a messy way which I do not.
Anyway, good news !!!!!!!! Yahooo, car works super nice after I replaced caps and rotors, I cant believe it made such a huge difference.
I test drove it up to 140 and it goes smooth and fine. Also engine passed my butt test sitting at signal.
So in my case the issue was the cracked cap but I installed fresh rotors too (just to make sure it is all nice)
The only thing I should do now is to replace that plastic seal behind the rotor cap.
Otherwise car is nice and ready to go to Benz shows .
Thanx all of you for help, advice and support !
Congrats, its enormously satisfying to get the engine running smoothly
Very true, it so nice sitting at signal and having your engine on 21 year old car working as it is just 2 years old ....
Most of the wires on the engine were replaced before or has been recently replaced by me ...
So now it seems car wants new MAF or/and ETA , I ll never get bored with 036
Reviving an old thread. After completing a bunch of work on my 036 (see post #54: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3194&p=89670#post89670) I am experiencing rough running issues a-la Jelmer and 500ESpain.
Soon after I bought my 036 in 2012 I bought a ’92 LH module from GSXR. The car ran great up until the above-mentioned maintenance was performed. The running (idle) issues were so bad that the car was stalling, hesitating and requiring long cranks/starts when hot. I was getting code 8 on PIN 4 and code 6 on PIN 17 both pointing to a faulty cam position sensor. GSXR provided a TON of troubleshooting help (thank you Dave) on this issue and suggested that I remove the ’92 LH module and see what happens with my ’94 LH module. The result is that the engine is no longer stalling, hesitating and hard to start when hot; but the idle is still lumpy, uneven and has the occasional heavy shudder. And there are NO codes.
My next step will on this issue will be to re-install the ’92 LH module to see if the real bad running problems reappear. Otherwise, I may buy a new cam position sensor to see if that makes a difference.
Any other ideas???
Soon after I bought my 036 in 2012 I bought a ’92 LH module from GSXR. The car ran great up until the above-mentioned maintenance was performed. The running (idle) issues were so bad that the car was stalling, hesitating and requiring long cranks/starts when hot. I was getting code 8 on PIN 4 and code 6 on PIN 17 both pointing to a faulty cam position sensor. GSXR provided a TON of troubleshooting help (thank you Dave) on this issue and suggested that I remove the ’92 LH module and see what happens with my ’94 LH module. The result is that the engine is no longer stalling, hesitating and hard to start when hot; but the idle is still lumpy, uneven and has the occasional heavy shudder. And there are NO codes.
My next step will on this issue will be to re-install the ’92 LH module to see if the real bad running problems reappear. Otherwise, I may buy a new cam position sensor to see if that makes a difference.
Any other ideas???
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So I re-installed the 92 LH module a week or so ago and the really poor running issues returned. Specifically, extreme engine shudders at idle (when hot and in gear) and hesitation when pressing the go-pedal. The good news though - no stalls. With the 92 LH Module I consistently picked up only one code - that being code #8 on PIN 4.
Next steps are: put the 94 LH Module back in the CAN, shop around for e-gas and base modules (I got one quote of $1,000 for the two...YIKES), and perhaps pick-up a new cam position sensor from Lionel.
Open to other suggestions though. Cheers.
