OWNER jlaa (500E & w210 E320)

[a777fan]

Not Evos... NEEZ! That's, like, turning the knob to eleven.

Oof. Just now understanding what you were saying Dave.

Jlaa... my deepest apologies...

My E500Eguru epaulettes will surely be taken now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jlaa]

I never visually noticed this before but I noticed this year that my rear bumper cover was slightly out-of-straight. I only discovered this when I took a straight edge to the bumper cover. This must have been a result of some kind of parking lot impact that it experienced prior to my ownership. After all, I had the bumper cover re-shot with paint in Nov 2016 to correct cracked paint: https://www.500eboard.co/forums/index.php?threads/owner-jlaa.9780/#post-142140

And so I corrected the bow.

You need to buy:

• Rear bumper Absorber Bracket (plated) - 124-885-27-14
• Splash Guard Bolt (black and T-25 torx) - 000000-000925

Total price as of 2019-July - $8.88

 

[Jlaa]

OK, I have several threads in various forums (mostly the ICE ones) investigating wiring diagrams, Jehenerts, etc etc... I will consolidate everything into one "summary post here."

With a professional's help, I designed and installed a stereo system in the 500E --- one that looks as OE as possible, one that required no cutting of anything, and one that, importantly, uses the original Becker BE1432. I considered that non-negotiable - the obtuse nature of the controls is part of the character and charm of the car. I'm kind of anal about installation details --- things like wire routing, connector terminations, solid mounting, screw hardware used, etc. are big deals to me.

I enjoy playing around with wiring / simple electronic work and I find that the result is fantastic sounding. The previous owner had put Rainbows in the dashboard --- while the Rainbows in and of themselves were an improvement over OE, I find that the current system makes the Rainbows sound like Rainturds.

• Bluetooth streaming - via Yatour CD Changer Emulator (emulates Alpine changer) and BT module
• Mercedes MX3192 signal converter - used in R129 cars --- used to convert native Sony protocol in BE1432 system to Alpine protocol --- had to use this to use the Yatour CD Changer Emulator (to get bluetooth)
• Kept the functionality of the stock fader wheel
• Kept the rear OE speakers - no reason to change them
• Focal TNF tweeter in the dashboard, hidden under the dash grille
• 4 1/2" scanspeak midranges in the dashboard, hidden under the dash grille
• Jehnert Door boards - in cream beige color
  • 1 Focal 6.5" mid bass in each door (PS165FX)
  • 1 Focal 6.5" woofer in each door (PS165F3)
  • these are wired in parallel so each door board is a 2 ohm load to the amplifier
• JL Audio VXi800 amplifier - 8x75w @ 4ohms, 8x100W @ 2 ohms.
• Everything time aligned
• Rear fill is L-R / R-L, bandpasses from 200Hz - 7000Hz, and delayed by 20 milliseconds
• I did not want to add a subwoofer. For my own tastes, a subwoofer is "too far away from OE condition".

Net result is that the stereo now sounds wonderful!!! And it looks as OE as possible, down to the "CD Changer Cover"
I have attached my drawings, notes, pictures, and setup for anyone in the future who wishes to duplicate / leverage off my experience. I leveraged a lot off @8899 and @gsxr 's experience and notes previously, so I am adding now to the tribal knowledge.

 

[Kyiv]

@Jlaa really awesome and NEAT work!

 

[Jlaa]

I bought new foglight lenses, put LaminX on them, and installed them on the car. Clarity is much improved. Along the way, I ripped out the last vestiges of the old K40 radar warning receiver system --- the front receiver was mounted just inboard of the driver's side foglight. I don't know why but the the box was all swollen up!

Anyways, you can see the big difference in clarity between the lenses. Old ones - Bosch branded with the Mercedes logo. New ones - "Automotive Lighting" branded with the Mercedes logo ground off. Old ones - made in Germany. New ones - Made in Czech Republic. Otherwise the same.

Brief procedure - jack car up, remove front wheels & clean the inner barrels, remove a couple of fasteners for the wheel well liners, and then you can get at the 3 bolts that hold in the fog light assembly. No need to remove the front bumper. Easy.

Oh, and then I got a bit carried away and repainted one horizontal plastic grille bar because of a rock chip. Just because.

 

[Kyiv]

There is something fascinating about how things age. How long do you think that radar unit was in there?
Beautiful headlights. Maybe now just paint the impact strip for one menacing look?

 

[Jlaa]

There is something fascinating about how things age. How long do you think that radar unit was in there?
Beautiful headlights. Maybe now just paint the impact strip for one menacing look?

I'd bet that K40 radar stuff has been mounted on the car since the early 90s. I think I saw one more rear detection unit in the rear bumper area when I was replacing the rear bumper bracket earlier this summer ---- I'll have to look more carefully there and delete that too. Not sure why a radar receiver would bulge out like that. Anyways, that impact strip will stay black as long as the car is under my care. And, by "as long as," I mean a long time. The black breaks up the red - otherwise the car would be much too red and it would be too much of a good thing.

 

[Kyiv]

that impact strip will stay black as long as the car is under my care. And, by "as long as," I mean a long time

I keep seeing adds in a magazine credit card company sends me for Patek Philippe watches with a tag line: "You never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely look after it for the next generation". I think this tag line is applicable here too

 

[TerryA]

Jlaa,

As usual you have done a great job!

+1 on keeping the impact strip original.

Maybe the K40 got water in it OR overheated from an electrical short.

Take Care

 

[Duh_Vinci]

....
Net result is that the stereo now sounds wonderful!!! ...

Installs like this one are not carried out often any longer, great job, great selection of components!!!
Regards,
D

 

[a777fan]

Bravo jlaa! I'd expect no less from your exquisite attention to detail. I appreciate the in-process pics too. Neat to see the guts coming together to form the whole.

Speaking of... you have an ECON gauge?!

 

[Jlaa]

Speaking of... you have an ECON gauge?!

Thanks yes, 3 years ago I replaced the instrument cluster housing (w a spare one from @Stevester 500E ) in order to get rid of the k40 warning lights that a previous owner had installed above the speedometer. While I had the cluster apart, I swapped in an econ/fuel/oil gauge from an earlier w124 because gratuitous vacuum gauges are cool. I then had to recalibrate the fuel gauge from expecting a 70L tank to a 90L tank, but I think for a w124.034, you wouldn’t have to do that!

OWNER - jlaa (500E & w210 E320) | Owners and Their Cars

There's a pin on both ends. The bottom one can fall out of place easily, and requires a fair amount of disassembly to access. IS the lower end of your new shock not attached to anything? :blink:

www.500eboard.co

 

[Jlaa]

Now that I've had this stereo installed for about a month, I have now had the opportunity to tune it for optimum sound quality. Let me first preface this by saying that I am not a hi-fi hobbyist at all. I do not own have a home stereo system with all kinds of fancy gear, and I have always held the opinion that I have relatively wooden ear drums, and that many hi-fi hobbyists like to geek out over the equipment more than the music. When I listen to music at home, I just play the music through my iPhone to some ceiling speakers. Casual listening.

With all that said, tuning the system in the car has made a huge huge huge difference. The sound is spectacular. Specifically, the perception that the singer is in front of you on the hood somewhere, and that the backup band surrounds you from left rearview mirror to right rearview mirror is incredible. This is very apparent when listening to Jazz, for example, Diana Krall, whom I have dryly observed in 2018 seems to be the "national anthem of the Legends of the Autobahn" events. I have compared this depth and stage perception to a Volvo that I have that came from the factory with an extra-fancy-premium-audio-system that comes with center-channel speakers in the dashboard and also has various Dolby Pro whatever modes, and I was floored to discover that the 500E, even without the benefit of a center-channel-speaker, affords the listener a superior sense of depth and stage perception.

Note that tuning is accomplished entirely by software. There are no knobs or dials or switches whatsoever on the JL Audio Vx800/8i DSP/Amplifier device. I will attempt to document how this was accomplished below, and reference the screenshots with the numbers embedded in the screenshots. Hopefully this helps someone in the future (here's looking @ you, @maw1124 and @gsxr )

• Firstly, utilizing an all-actively-crossovered system is paramount. In that way you have way more control over which driver (driver in this sense being a woofer/tweeter/etc) is playing what, and at what level, and when. If you use a passively-crossovered system, you lose this flexibility, and this flexibility is very important for reasons you see below.
• Equalization curve for door woofers in Jehnert panels
  • 1 - By low-passing this at 48 db/oct, I realized the low end bass response is very very much enhanced!! I originally had this set to 12 db/oct and while that sounded good at the time, I realize now that the slope is too shallow, Using a much steeper curve allows the low end response to be VERY much improved. I bumped up the EQ settings at 50Hz for emphasis (pretty much the bottom limit of the mid basses in the doors is around 40-50hz).
  • 2- I cranked down the EQ at 70Hz because the mid basses/woofers exhibit quite a bit of resonance around 70Hz (and the mid bass specs show a resonant frequency of 74Hz), so I needed to tame it a bit there. At 100Hz I cranked the EQ it way up again because there seems to be a significant null in cabin-response (or midbass/performance). Then, by 125Hz, I cranked the EQ down again because the null was no longer there.
    • My technique to figure out where to reduce/raise the output was to use youtube and play various test tones sweeps i.e. youtube for "20-500hz sweep". As the sound increases in frequency during the sweep, you can make note of what frequencies sound louder and what frequencies sound softer.
    • I then did a sanity check by playing U2's "With or Without You." This song has a 4-note-bass-line all within these frequencies. If your midbass/woofers' frequency response have been EQed flat, then all the bass-line notes will appear to be the same volume. Prior to me fiddling with the EQ, the 4 bass line notes were all reproduced at different volume levels.
  • 3 - Around 250 hz, there seems to be a slight null in cabin response, which is why you see the peak in equalization, and then it crosses over at 300 Hz at 24 db/oct. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. By using such a steep slope at 300 Hz, you ensure that almost NONE of the vocal output goes through the door woofers.
• Equalization curve for scanspeak midranges in dash
  • 3 - Note the midranges start at 250 Hz at 24 db/oct. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. This ensures almost all the output of the singer's vocal come through the midranges in the dash, and anchors the perception that the singer is on the hood. I originally had this around 500Hz and that ended up totally smearing the image perception because the bottom of the singer's voice was coming from the doors, and the middle parts of the singer's voice was coming from the dash. I didn't realize how smeared that was at the time until I changed the crossover point to 250Hz -- and this was the biggest single positive effect that I noticed. Wow. Once I made this change, the image perception improved eleventy billion. I can't overstate how incredible this sounded.
  • 4 - Again, there is some in-cabin resonance around 700Hz, so I tried to EQ that out.
  • 5 - Here I am boosting the output of the midranges --- note that the drivers all have different sensitivities, and so it may be that I am equalizing for that. There may also be a null again in cabin-resonance at this point. Also note that right output is 1db higher than left output, to level-match for the driver of the car who sits in the left side of the car.
• Equalization curve for focal tweeters in dash
  • 6 - There is a steep cutoff (48 db/oct) at 17,500 -- I can't hear above that anyways. Note that I am running the right side 1.5db hotter than the left side as well.
• Rear Fill Speakers (OE)
  • Note the 20 ms delay to the rear adds to the "concert hall" effect. You don't hear any vocal coming from the rear because the rear channels are albegraically subtracting out the common information (L-R) and (R-L).
  • Also note that the left channel is actually 1 db hotter than the right, because the front seat and rear seat headrests block some of the sound that reaches the driver's ears, and so I am using levels to compensate.

That's it! I learned a lot in this little project on how to listen --- I had a lot of fun w/ this and I hope this helps someone in the future.

 

[nocfn]

I have the JLA audio system myself. It took quite a Bit of fiddle for me too. I did not have the benefit of the “software” so it was hunting and pecking until I thought the glass
Would shatter! After I lowered the volume, that is the only adjustments I have done. 7Delta also helped over the phone as he has sone this before. The last time I messed with this stuff it was a 70 Chevelle SS in 1983 playing Van Halen II on an 8 track and the Audiovox 100W power booster.

 

[Jlaa]

.... The last time I messed with this stuff it was a 70 Chevelle SS in 1983 playing Van Halen II on an 8 track and the Audiovox 100W power booster.

hahaha. Or perhaps you were using Craig or Kraco or Jensen or Realistic or or or ......

 

[TerryA]

Jlaa,

I’m happy for. You’ve put a lot of time, $$$, effort and challenging fun into your stereo system and it sounds like your really going to enjoy it.

All of that work would be wasted on me. For me age and my wooden ear drums, I’ll stick w/ my Nakamachi and the stock system. It sounds good enough. My 2015 KIA Optima beater has a great stereo. It works w/ my 10 yr old I-Pod, has mpg which I have never used and Bluetooth for my I-Phone. What else could I ever want.

PS: I’m not deaf but I remember about 15 years ago when when my 6 year old grandson was hearing notes that I could not hear. As you age it gets worse. Similar to we can’t hear a dog whistle.

lol

 

[Jlaa]

Jlaa,

I’m happy for. You’ve put a lot of time, $$$, effort and challenging fun into your stereo system and it sounds like your really going to enjoy it.

All of that work would be wasted on me. For me age and my wooden ear drums, I’ll stick w/ my Nakamachi and the stock system. It sounds good enough. My 2015 KIA Optima beater has a great stereo. It works w/ my 10 yr old I-Pod, has mpg which I have never used and Bluetooth for my I-Phone. What else could I ever want.

PS: I’m not deaf but I remember about 15 years ago when when my 6 year old grandson was hearing notes that I could not hear. As you age it gets worse. Similar to we can’t hear a dog whistle.

lol

Thank you! As well, my kid and I did one of those hearing test online and I also realized that she can hear all kinds of frequencies that I am unable to hear — and this is through a set of lousy computer speakers!

Without getting too far off topic of this E500E forum, the main lesson I learned from this little project is that after improving the stereo system’s ability to reproduce a broad range of frequencies (to a very modest capability) most of one’s ability to discern “wow live music!” comes from the brain - not the eardrums. As I have wooden eardrums as well, what I realized is that the way the brain mixes *differences* in what one’s left ear and right ear receives is the way one can determine things like depth, image, stage, etc.

For instance, if the bottom registers of a singer’s voice is coming from door woofers and the upper registers of that singer’s voice is coming from the dashboard, the brain can pick up on this even with wooden eardrums because some of the singer’s voice arrives at the ears a few milliseconds before/after other portions of the singer’s voice. As well, what is received by the ear from the door woofers is going to sound very different than that same exact note sourced from the dashboard because the acoustics of the cabin with reflections and stuff will change things.

All this fancy software attempts to do is to trick the brain into thinking that these differences don’t exist ... and I was suitably impressed by the result. To be frank, before I messed around with the software, my uneducated self already was thinking “gee this sounds really good” already, but after tuning, when I flip back and forth between v1 and v25 (I iterated 25 times and saved each configuration file) I think to myself “omigosh, NOW I understand what the hubub is about, I can’t believe I thought v1 sounded good.”

Its like the difference between eating dungeness crab sourced from your local fishmonger all your life, and the one day you go out on a crabbing boat, haul up a couple crabs and steam and eat it within an hour of it leaving the seawater, and then you exclaim, “ohhhhhhh. Now I understand what fresh crab tastes like!!!”

 

[maw1124]

Now that I've had this stereo installed for about a month, I have now had the opportunity to tune it for optimum sound quality. Let me first preface this by saying that I am not a hi-fi hobbyist at all. I do not own have a home stereo system with all kinds of fancy gear, and I have always held the opinion that I have relatively wooden ear drums, and that many hi-fi hobbyists like to geek out over the equipment more than the music. When I listen to music at home, I just play the music through my iPhone to some ceiling speakers. Casual listening.

With all that said, tuning the system in the car has made a huge huge huge difference. The sound is spectacular. Specifically, the perception that the singer is in front of you on the hood somewhere, and that the backup band surrounds you from left rearview mirror to right rearview mirror is incredible. This is very apparent when listening to Jazz, for example, Diana Krall, whom I have dryly observed in 2018 seems to be the "national anthem of the Legends of the Autobahn" events. I have compared this depth and stage perception to a Volvo that I have that came from the factory with an extra-fancy-premium-audio-system that comes with center-channel speakers in the dashboard and also has various Dolby Pro whatever modes, and I was floored to discover that the 500E, even without the benefit of a center-channel-speaker, affords the listener a superior sense of depth and stage perception.

Note that tuning is accomplished entirely by software. There are no knobs or dials or switches whatsoever on the JL Audio Vx800/8i DSP/Amplifier device. I will attempt to document how this was accomplished below, and reference the screenshots with the numbers embedded in the screenshots. Hopefully this helps someone in the future (here's looking @ you, @maw1124 and @gsxr )

• Firstly, utilizing an all-actively-crossovered system is paramount. In that way you have way more control over which driver (driver in this sense being a woofer/tweeter/etc) is playing what, and at what level, and when. If you use a passively-crossovered system, you lose this flexibility, and this flexibility is very important for reasons you see below.
• Equalization curve for door woofers in Jehnert panels
  • 1 - By low-passing this at 48 db/oct, I realized the low end bass response is very very much enhanced!! I originally had this set to 12 db/oct and while that sounded good at the time, I realize now that the slope is too shallow, Using a much steeper curve allows the low end response to be VERY much improved, and you can see a tiny little bump up I have added at around 48Hz for emphasis.
  • 2 - I reduced the output in the 100Hz range as there seems to be some in-cabin resonance at this frequency range--- too much "thump". My technique to figure out where to reduce the output was to use youtube and play various test tones - i.e. youtube for "100hz test tone" or "125 hz test tone", ad nauseam.
  • 3 - Around 250 hz, there seems to be a slight null in cabin response, which is why you see the peak in equalization, and then it crosses over at 300 Hz at 24 db/oct. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. By using such a steep slope at 300 Hz, you ensure that almost NONE of the vocal output goes through the door woofers.
• Equalization curve for scanspeak midranges in dash
  • 3 - Note the midranges start at 250 Hz at 24 db/oct. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. This ensures almost all the output of the singer's vocal come through the midranges in the dash, and anchors the perception that the singer is on the hood. I originally had this around 500Hz and that ended up totally smearing the image perception because the bottom of the singer's voice was coming from the doors, and the middle parts of the singer's voice was coming from the dash. I didn't realize how smeared that was at the time until I changed the crossover point to 250Hz -- and this was the biggest single positive effect that I noticed. Wow. Once I made this change, the image perception improved eleventy billion. I can't overstate how incredible this sounded.
  • 4 - Again, there is some in-cabin resonance around 700Hz, so I tried to EQ that out.
  • 5 - Here I am boosting the output of the midranges --- note that the drivers all have different sensitivities, and so it may be that I am equalizing for that. There may also be a null again in cabin-resonance at this point. Also note that right output is 1db higher than left output, to level-match for the driver of the car who sits in the left side of the car.
• Equalization curve for focal tweeters in dash
  • 6 - There is a steep cutoff (48 db/oct) at 17,500 -- I can't hear above that anyways. Note that I am running the right side 1.5db hotter than the left side as well.
• Rear Fill Speakers (OE)
  • Note the 20 ms delay to the rear adds to the "concert hall" effect. You don't hear any vocal coming from the rear because the rear channels are albegraically subtracting out the common information (L-R) and (R-L).
  • Also note that the left channel is actually 1 db hotter than the right, because the front seat and rear seat headrests block some of the sound that reaches the driver's ears, and so I am using levels to compensate.

That's it! I learned a lot in this little project on how to listen --- I had a lot of fun w/ this and I hope this helps someone in the future.
View attachment 87405View attachment 87407

The interesting thing about all this, JLAA, is I installed the new Alpine head unit (plug and play with old harness and hardware, but with better sound tuning — active crossovers and what not), and I happened across those same observations and frequencies. I’ll double check, but 250Hz, 500Hz and the rolloff seemed very important and paid huge dividends, in terms of not “breaking up” the vocals. But using the front time correction to place the sound equidistant between the doors and dash seemed to help tremendously. For the gray matter saved (not to mention money, as this head unit is better and less expensive than its predecessor), I’m VERY happy.

Thanks for your thoughts. Cheers,

maw

 

[sheward]

This will be the last thing I will change in the reconditioning of my car. I know nothing about audio installation (I did once put a Kraco radio in a 67 Camaro) so I'm grateful for your in depth coverage. If we were closer I'd try to convince you to do the work for me! As it is I'll be able to have someone reference your work. I do enjoy my music and good audio equipment.

drew

 

[Jlaa]

This will be the last thing I will change in the reconditioning of my car. I know nothing about audio installation (I did once put a Kraco radio in a 67 Camaro) so I'm grateful for your in depth coverage. If we were closer I'd try to convince you to do the work for me! As it is I'll be able to have someone reference your work. I do enjoy my music and good audio equipment.

drew

Perfect, I am glad that this can help someone and, as well, that these findings have been informally “peer reviewed” as they have been independently observed by both @maw1124 and I ! I was helped by many old old posts from @8899, @gsxr, and @ERASE and so I am glad to be able to return the favor.

 

[maw1124]

This will be the last thing I will change in the reconditioning of my car. I know nothing about audio installation (I did once put a Kraco radio in a 67 Camaro) so I'm grateful for your in depth coverage. If we were closer I'd try to convince you to do the work for me! As it is I'll be able to have someone reference your work. I do enjoy my music and good audio equipment.

drew

Drew, if it’s not bothering you, well... don’t bother. On a ‘92 car it’s a lot of work. I did it as a knee jerk because I couldn’t stand the system as it was. But that was less than a month into my ownership.

maw

 

[Jlaa]

Drew, if it’s not bothering you, well... don’t bother. On a ‘92 car it’s a lot of work. I did it as a knee jerk because I couldn’t stand the system as it was. But that was less than a month into my ownership.

maw

Its not that bad if you keep the becker 1432 like I did.

 

[sheward]

Yes, It is. I've been following the talk of retrofitting our systems and I've decided to get things done while the interior is coming out. I have not had the time or inclination to even find out why the stock radio only broadcasts static. I want to experience driving this car with exceptionally good music. What I'd like is to have a collaboration with a local audio guru with me doing the installation. I know that's asking a lot but I really don't know anyone to trust with the whole thing. I'm sure it would cost plenty to purchase that experience.

Be glad you did yours, Maw.

drew

 

[sheward]

I would very much like to keep the 1432.

drew

 

[maw1124]

I would very much like to keep the 1432.

drew

Well the tools to keep it and have sound adjustment via an amplifier now exist, unlike in 2011 when I did mine. Still not cheap, but JLAA has laid a splendid road map for it, IMO.

FWIW Drew, I trusted the guys who knew the car and its wiring best to do the install, while they trusted me with the stereo components. That worked out well — whatever I bought, they installed.

JLAA’s route probably gives me an answer to the system in the S55, where keeping the stock head unit is a virtual necessity.

maw

 

[Jlaa]

Started to tear open the wiper area to in order to replace the HVAC blower motor and regulator. After I spent 2 hours cleaning / cleaning / q-tipping / rubber treatment all that jazz with the rubber seals, mono wiper, plastic drain trays, etc.... I was thoroughly grossed out with the 26 years of accumulated grossness and decided to put off the blower motor/regular battle until later when my frame of mind isn't about expanding Roman Orifices.

So I replaced the fuel pressure regulator. Simple task. Small Wins.

Original made-in-Germany regulator. Worked fine, but very yukkkkked up on the outside, including the snap ring:



Regulator removed. Lots of yukked-uppedness around the flange being cleaned by moi:



Original snap ring. After degreasing it, I had to sand it with a bit of sandpaper to get it shiny again.





Comparison shots of the old / new fuel press regulator. New Bosch one is made in Brazil, has a smaller orifice on the bottom, and has bits made of plastic.



Replaced the original 2-part rubber vacuum hose + yellow coupler. The old ones actually felt like they were in nice shape (perhaps replaced before by a previous owner---- actually ALL the under-hood rubber on the car looks like it is in nice shape). You have to cut one of the new pieces to length.



All done. Satisfying.

 

[Jlaa]

Took my time and replaced the HVAC blower motor and the blower motor regulator. Since I bought the car 3 years ago, the blower would chirp occasionally on the low fan setting. Initially it would chirp maybe 10% of the time and then go away by itself. More recently it started to chirp 50% of the time --- very irritating.

First, parts acquisition --- I was annoyed that the list price for original OE parts, especially the blower regulator, seemed to be off the charts! Over $400 for the regulator and over $300 for the blower. The regulator I think is just some power transistors and a big heatsink too --- c'mon, $400+?

I found the OEM (Bosch/Behr) version of the regulator with the Mercedes Logo part number still on there but the star scratched off --- and curiously co-branded with ACM --- for only $147.

I took a chance on a VDO blower (OEM is BEHR). The VDO blower was only $31 + shipping on closeout special --- curiously it was manufactured for VDO by TYC, which happens to be a Taiwanese company that manufacturers OE blowers for companies like Ford and Navistar. Oh well, $31 vs $200+ for an OEM BEHR part - I figured with the dirt cheap price, I'd try the VDO/TYC blower. the packaging was certainly very well thought through. If it breaks prematurely, I can always replace it --- an HVAC blower is not a mission critical part.



I spent 3 days doing this --- 30 mins here and there, when I had a little free time, and super slow and methodical working made for a pleasurable project with no huge eff-UPS. Basically for every n-units of time spent, 0.3n was spent actually doing the task, 0.2n was spent reading about the task and scrutinizing the pictures for the task from various HOW-TOs, and 0.5n was spent cleaning the @%$#*%$#*( grossness from 26 years of accumulated dreck off the parts!

This was just the tip of the iceberg of the grossness -- under the seals, accumulated in corners of the air intake, in the crevices of the aluminum base of the mono wiper --- ugh...



Watch my back --- I'm going in! (Ugh more gross ---- purple vacuum line is for my headlights)



Sesame is opened! (Ugh - more crumbling foam and more grossness). This has to be the original blower. So old. Motor shaft has corrosion! No wonder it squeaks / chirps --- wonder what the bearings look like. Note awesome harbor freight light.



Here is the location of the secret screw that must be removed to facilitate EASY REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT of the regulator:



More grossness:



Rubber grommet w/ the new regulator is just tiresome and fiddly to get seated:



New stuff all mounted and running!



Getting the mono wiper foot back on with the isolation-rubber and ensuring the clamp properly clamps both the wiper bracket and the chassis bracket:



Everything is all back together again!!!!!



Annnnnnnndddddddd.... It wouldn't be a project unless I broke something. I *always* manage to fudge something up. ALWAYS. Its what I do. Time to order a new plastic-fork clip (The white thing -- pic courtesy of @a777fan) Eighty-Nine Cents each.

 

[gsxr]

Nice work, Jlaa!

BTW... your car is one of the late 1993 builds that has the late-style rubber strips across the bottom of the windshield. The VIN break was just before the facelift. Totally different setup before & after, make sure that channel at the base of the windshield glass doesn't crack or break, it's not available separately!

 

[gerryvz]

Those white clips are broken or missing probably 75% of the time when I remove drip trays to sell to you guys from 124s in the yards. They are easy enough to overlook when removing the trays, as well, and break quite easily. Good part to have a few in the parts stock of before they go NLA.

Which reminds me -- I have a drip tray in the garage that I need to clean up a bit, put together and advertise for sale here.

 

[Jlaa]

Those white clips are broken or missing probably 75% of the time when I remove drip trays to sell to you guys from 124s in the yards.

Nice work, Jlaa!

BTW... your car is one of the late 1993 builds that has the late-style rubber strips across the bottom of the windshield. The VIN break was just before the facelift. Totally different setup before & after, make sure that channel at the base of the windshield glass doesn't crack or break, it's not available separately!

Thanks! Yeah, doing this job lets me really admire some of the decisions that Mercedes-Benz engineers made. For instance, the single mustache rubber strip thing is really interesting and intricate in the way that it works. They have that lower flappy sealing thing that you have to press in to the channel, and then you are not done! You still have to put the ridge that is on the upper half of the mustache into a different channel! Such a complex rubber piece!

The white plastic forks are another piece of totally unnecessary overengineering. And, it is so strange because these two plastic forks are the only fasteners on the car that are anything like this!

On the other hand, the engineers made some really dumb decisions too. For example, that black plastic nut which holds the plastic panel in place, which is to the right of the two flower bolts is totally retarded. First, there are so many other things in the way. Second, once you get your fingers in some crazy convoluted and contorted position to reach the nut, you realize that it is so easy to drop that nut into the black hole of the engine bay. Thirdly, the stupid nut is plastic which means you cannot even use a magnet to help your poor fingers guide the nut onto and off of the threaded post!

 

[a777fan]

Took my time and replaced the HVAC blower motor and the blower motor regulator. Since I bought the car 3 years ago, the blower would chirp occasionally on the low fan setting. Initially it would chirp maybe 10% of the time and then go away by itself. More recently it started to chirp 50% of the time --- very irritating.

First, parts acquisition --- I was irritated that the list price for original OE parts, especially the blower regular, seemed to by off the charts! Over $400 for the regulator and over $300 for the blower. The regulator I think is just some power transistors and a big heatsink too --- c'mon, $400+?

I found the OEM (Bosch/Behr) version of the regulator with the Mercedes Logo part number still on there but the star scratched off --- and curiously co-branded with ACM --- for only $147.

I took a chance on a VDO blower (OEM is BEHR). The VDO blower was only $31 + shipping on closeout special --- curiously it was manufactured for VDO by TYC, which happens to be a Taiwanese company that manufacturers OE blowers for companies like Ford and Navistar. Oh well, $31 vs $200+ for an OEM BEHR part - I figured with the dirt cheap price, I'd try the VDO/TYC blower. the packaging was certainly very well thought through. If it breaks prematurely, I can always replace it --- an HVAC blower is not a mission critical part.

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I spent 3 days doing this --- 30 mins here and there, when I had a little free time, and super slow and methodical working made for a pleasurable project with no huge eff-UPS. Basically for every n-units of time spent, 0.3n was spent actually doing the task, 0.2n was spent reading about the task and scrutinizing the pictures for the task from various HOW-TOs, and 0.5n was spent cleaning the @%$#*%$#*( grossness from 26 years of accumulated dreck off the parts!

This was just the tip of the iceberg of the grossness -- under the seals, accumulated in corners of the air intake, in the crevices of the aluminum base of the mono wiper --- ugh...

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Watch my back --- I'm going in! (Ugh more gross ---- purple vacuum line is for my headlights)

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Sesame is opened! (Ugh - more crumbling foam and more grossness). This has to be the original blower. So old. Motor shaft has corrosion! No wonder it squeaks / chirps --- wonder what the bearings look like. Note awesome harbor freight light.

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Here is the location of the secret screw that must be removed to facilitate EASY REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT of the regulator:

View attachment 88274

More grossness:

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Rubber grommet w/ the new regulator is just tiresome and fiddly to get seated:

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New stuff all mounted and running!

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Getting the mono wiper foot back on with the isolation-rubber and ensuring the clamp properly clamps both the wiper bracket and the chassis bracket:

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Everything is all back together again!!!!!

View attachment 88290

Annnnnnnndddddddd.... It wouldn't be a project unless I broke something. I *always* manage to fudge something up. ALWAYS. Its what I do. Time to order a new plastic-fork clip (The white thing -- pic courtesy of @a777fan) Eighty-Nine Cents each.

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Thanks! This has definetley satisfied my OCD quotient for the week. Great work!

 

[gerryvz]

Did someone say “flower bolt”!

 

[Jlaa]

Okay, finally finished the HVAC blower motor job with the replacement of my one broken plastic fork. These were the last 3 plastic forks in the USA. There are more in Germany, however, it is a 6-week wait to get the ones in Germany.

Hats off to Renee @ Naperville as always for fantastic service --- I'm a loyal customer. She overnighted them to me, and I didn't even ask for overnight shipping.

BTW -- something is really weirded out w/ the parts revolution thing --- check out the $16.61 estimated Fedex Ground shipping costs for a 0.95 lbs package.

 

[nocfn]

Thanks! Yeah, doing this job lets me really admire some of the decisions that Mercedes-Benz engineers made. For instance, the single mustache rubber strip thing is really interesting and intricate in the way that it works. They have that lower flappy sealing thing that you have to press in to the channel, and then you are not done! You still have to put the ridge that is on the upper half of the mustache into a different channel! Such a complex rubber piece!

The white plastic forks are another piece of totally unnecessary overengineering. And, it is so strange because these two plastic forks are the only fasteners on the car that are anything like this!

On the other hand, the engineers made some really dumb decisions too. For example, that black plastic nut which holds the plastic panel in place, which is to the right of the two flower bolts is totally retarded. First, there are so many other things in the way. Second, once you get your fingers in some crazy convoluted and contorted position to reach the nut, you realize that it is so easy to drop that nut into the black hole of the engine bay. Thirdly, the stupid nut is plastic which means you cannot even use a magnet to help your poor fingers guide the nut onto and off of the threaded post!

Me thinks you need to take better hold of your nuts.

 

[Jlaa]

OK Just FYI guys - don't get the VDO/TYC Blower motors. You get what you pay for. I took a gamble at $31+shipping.
At high fan speeds, the blower motor worked fine. The problem is that with the HVAC controls set at low fan speed, the blower motor was still very vigorous and pushing air (and making noise!) at medium speed.

Driving the car, it was VERY apparent with the HVAC controls set at low speed that the blower was busy making noise. Irritating as all get out and really spoiled the car, especially as the car is very quiet (doubly so as my exhaust and center resonator is all OE and all new).

So after 200 miles, I swapped the blower motor with a $200 BEHR/Hella Service blower motor. Ahhhh... my sanity is now restored. I made a video comparing the two blower motors. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. This time, I lost (albeit the cost was not too great).

 

[Kyiv]

During spring, summer, autumn I yearn for medium speed for a/c, as low is to low, but high is too high for southern California and now northern Virginia. I run a/c at high, switching to low, until, usually quickly, it's hot inside the car again. The VDO might give me that medium speed my a/c lacks, haha.

Jlaa, your investigative work is appreciated!

I wonder if VDO's resistance can be adjusted?

 

[Jlaa]

@kiev, the VDO/TYC is yours for the cost of shipping if you'd like it! Low speed indeed is like medium speed with no real low-speed.

 

[Kyiv]

@kiev, the VDO/TYC is yours for the cost of shipping if you'd like it! Low speed indeed is like medium speed with no real low-speed.

Mate, thanks! But I bought one together with you all when it was on that "mega" sale

 

[RicardoD]

Took my time and replaced the HVAC blower motor and the blower motor regulator.

Nice write up Jlaa, now that my odometer gears are quiet i hear my blower motor chirping and whining as well. This is next on the list to get a super quiet interior.

 

[nocfn]

Do it right the first time Ricardo, get the eight fan, change the regulator and and freshen up the box seals - while you are in there...( not to mention cleaning and lubing the wiper mechanism)

 

[RicardoD]

How do you freshen up the box seals?

 

[PJmak]

I enjoyed this thread especially because I am currently restoring a red w202 c43 amg yard find.

This was like a shot of motivation but its been too cold up here lately. I appreciate your attention to detail, I have that obsession as well.

Where in Northern California are you? I think it would be awesome to see your car next to mine considering they are both red which are super rare colors on both models.

 

[JC220]

I enjoyed this thread especially because I am currently restoring a red w202 c43 amg yard find.

This was like a shot of motivation but its been too cold up here lately. I appreciate your attention to detail, I have that obsession as well.

Where in Northern California are you? I think it would be awesome to see your car next to mine considering they are both red which are super rare colors on both models.

Cool project! We need a thread on your resto!

 

[PJmak]

Thanks

I have one on mbworld w202 amg section.

Wasn't sure if its appropriate to post here since its a 500E board.

I came here looking for specific wheels for this car and I ended up staying and occasionally browsing. I've always loved the 500e

 

[gsxr]

I have one on mbworld w202 amg section. Wasn't sure if its appropriate to post here since its a 500E board.

You're more than welcome to start a thread in either the Off-Topic section, or AMG/Tuner car section. It fits into either one.

I came here looking for specific wheels for this car...

Which wheels are you looking for?

 

[PJmak]

You're more than welcome to start a thread in either the Off-Topic section, or AMG/Tuner car section. It fits into either one.

Which wheels are you looking for?

Cool, ill look into doing that in the next few days.

At the time I registered I had an incomplete set of Amg BBS 18'' sl600 two piece wheels.

I was able to find a guy who sold me two, one front and one rear so I actually have one extra now

 

[Jlaa]

I enjoyed this thread especially because I am currently restoring a red w202 c43 amg yard find.
This was like a shot of motivation but its been too cold up here lately. I appreciate your attention to detail, I have that obsession as well.

Perfect! Happy to be the catalyst to get'er'done. By my own count, there are at least TWO owners of Imperial Red w202 c36s on this board. One of which I had a hand in exporting from a tow yard in Pacifica, CA to Great Falls, VA, to be restored and another which actually lives in a garage (with a DB199 E500 among other nice hardware) a mile or two from me in SF.

 

[PJmak]

We should make a nice little get together once the weather gets nicer . Would be awesome to see a c36, c43, and a 500e all in red in one spot. I doubt thats been done before.

Im in Sacramento so not too far. I probably know both of those cars. The one from the towyard I was on my way to buy with cash in hand but the owner texted me that its sold. Luckily I found a more rare c43 a year or so later.

The owner of that one has done a wonderful job restoring it.

How many red c43s have you seen? I think they are way more rare than the c36s.

Anyway Ill start a thread tomorrow. I feel like Im intruding.

 

[Jlaa]

The [c36] from the towyard I was on my way to buy with cash in hand but the owner texted me that its sold.

The cash in MY hand* was faster. ;-) ;-)




*actually to be fair, it was @Ntrepid's cash in my hand, which was basically a "drone hand" for @Ntrepid.

 

[PJmak]

True I guess

The seller didnt want to wait, he kept saying first with cash in hand buys it so by the time I got stuff together he sold it.

Needed time off and someone to drive with me to pick it up.