HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

[gerryvz]

Gerry, I have a question. Will this process and these part numbers work with my 1994 SL500?

Thanks, Torry

Yes. Everything would be the same for the M119 as found in the 1994 SL500. It's a close variant of the engine as found in the E500. Did you confirm that your car has plastic oiler tubes by looking through the oil filler cap with a flashlight? It's more than likely that a 1994 model M119 DOES have the plastic tubes, but it's good to make sure before you embark on the project.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Stevester 500E]

Is it possible to peek inside the head thru the oil filler to see what type of oiler tubes I have?

 

[gerryvz]

100% affirmative!

An LED flashlight really helps.

 

[rfrancis]

What's the torque order for the hearing caps ... Closest to the spark plugs first? I mean what part should touch the head the one closest to the spark plug or to the outside ?

 

[jonie13]

Quick question on bolting the valve cover back on. Is there any particular pattern that needs to be followed? I looked through the site and the online manual and can't find anything.

Thanks,

Jon

 

[gerryvz]

Use a cross pattern. Start at the center and cris-cross toward the outer edges of the covers. You want to torque it down evenly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dj_rzn]

Is there a difference in part numbers for 119.980 engines?

 

[nocfn]

Regarding the metal oilers?

 

[gsxr]

Is there a difference in part numbers for 119.980 engines?

No difference. All M119 use interchangeable tubes: .960, .97x, .98x.

 

[Coled1001]

Hello and thanks for sharing the awesome instructional on changing out the cam oiler tubes, my 97 E 420 has the dreaded tick tick and I am about to undertake the change- question is should I seek used aluminum tubes or go with the MB plastic ones sold by Pelican or does anyone have any experience with the Rausch version- thanks again Cole

 

[nocfn]

I just installed a set of metal oiler tubes. My Plastic tubes were perfectly fine but now there will not be an issue.

 

[Coled1001]

Did you buy aftermarket or used ones? Thanks for the response

 

[nocfn]

used from an earlier model. Genuine MB is my suggestion, with new orings. A typical issue that occasionally happens is the cap end leaks causing the tapping. My composite oilers were original and were in fine shape after 117k. If you save 20 bux by going aftermarket and have an issue, you may be spending thousands more rebuilding the engine. Also, genuine mb rubber for seals and gaskets, don't skimp on those.

 

[gerryvz]

Hello and thanks for sharing the awesome instructional on changing out the cam oiler tubes, my 97 E 420 has the dreaded tick tick and I am about to undertake the change- question is should I seek used aluminum tubes or go with the MB plastic ones sold by Pelican or does anyone have any experience with the Rausch version- thanks again Cole

I recommend that you get a used set of aluminum oiler tubes, with new o-rings installed, via this forum. Folks regularly put them up for sale, and they tend to run in the $125-150 range per set, more toward the $140-150 range if they include the new o-rings.

The aftermarket aluminum tubes available via AutohausAZ.com are certainly fine to use, but they are more expensive than the factory items that people scavenge off of wrecked cars and resell.

You can find used sets here in the "Parts for Sale" sub-forum, and can also put up a request in the "Wanted to Buy" sub-forum as well. Usually there is at least one individual selling a set at any given time. I just sold out my last set a few weeks ago, unfortunately. It's hit and miss when I get new sets to sell, but I usually get 5-6 sets per year depending on what turns up in the yards.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

FYI. New MB aluminum tubes are not available. The only options are:

- New MB plastic tubes ($26 each MSRP, $416/set MSRP)
- New Rausch aluminum tubes ($25 each, $400/set)
- Used MB aluminum tubes
- Used MB plastic tubes

Don't forget to only use OE/dealer valve cover gaskets, new copper washers for the bolts, and you may break some PCV hoses while removing the valve covers...

 

[Coled1001]

used from an earlier model. Genuine MB is my suggestion, with new orings. A typical issue that occasionally happens is the cap end leaks causing the tapping. My composite oilers were original and were in fine shape after 117k. If you save 20 bux by going aftermarket and have an issue, you may be spending thousands more rebuilding the engine. Also, genuine mb rubber for seals and gaskets, don't skimp on those.

Thanks for the insight I will make sure to get MB only gaskets and I want to look into getting new hoses

 

[Coled1001]

Thanks Gerry I appreciate the write up and the additional information- I will check the forum for a good used set of tubes- it certainly appears from the work you have done this is the way to go- I looked through my oil filler cap and was able to see the top of the black plastic original oiler tube so I am definitely looking to replace- strange thing is I have not driven this car much- I actually only have 41k miles on it- I guess just having it sit up caused one to go bad- regardless of mileage the car is still almost 20 years old- thanks again Cole

 

[Coled1001]

Guys this forum is great and this write up is phenomenal- quick question where are you guys buying your parts, I was looking to order the crush washers for valve cover replacement ( MB parts) from Pelican and they want 2.50 for each of them- just wondering if that doesnt seem pretty expensive- is this one of those items that it just makes more sense to have an OEM part? thanks Cole

 

[nocfn]

mboemparts.com and search here for them, they may still have free shipping offered. MB of Gainesville, FL always offers free shipping to E500E forum members, call Darvin in their parts department. Autohausaz.com has many of the identical parts and is a good place for washers and things but shipping costs can get you so use them as a stock up resource. Just plan ahead whenever you can, it isn't hard to get a $50 order together. Mbdirectparts.com is also great place to work with, they are in Nebraska and have low costs but charge for shipping.

 

[JC220]

Guys this forum is great and this write up is phenomenal- quick question where are you guys buying your parts, I was looking to order the crush washers for valve cover replacement ( MB parts) from Pelican and they want 2.50 for each of them- just wondering if that doesnt seem pretty expensive- is this one of those items that it just makes more sense to have an OEM part? thanks Cole

For the copper washers they are 6 x 10 x mm washers. You can get these as standard on ebay etc they don't have to be from MB. I keep a large selection of copper washers on hand which saves me waiting on parts from MB more than anything else. A full box of assorted washers including the ones you need are only about $8 so much cheaper too. When I measure a standard MB washer - (Like the Fuel Pump Banjo Washers) I buy packs of 100. That way you always have them on hand for when you need them.

 

[gsxr]

Guys this forum is great and this write up is phenomenal- quick question where are you guys buying your parts, I was looking to order the crush washers for valve cover replacement ( MB parts) from Pelican and they want 2.50 for each of them- just wondering if that doesnt seem pretty expensive- is this one of those items that it just makes more sense to have an OEM part? thanks Cole

Cole, some parts are crazy priced from any OE source, including the discount dealers like Naperville, Gainesville, or Husker (search forum for info on these).

You can get some items from aftermarket sources for drastically less, and the copper crush washers on the valve cover bolts are a great example. P/N is 007603-006106, MBNA list price is $1.90 each, discounters are $1.30-$1.50 each, aftermarket is $0.25 from AutohausAZ. Buy some OEM filters (Mann, Hengst, Knecht, Mahle) or other tidbits and you'll get free shipping on orders over $75.

WARNING - be very, very careful when buying aftermarket parts. Some are top quality and equivalent to OE/OEM (example - Lemforder/Boge engine mounts, most Lemforder suspension/steering items) and substantially lower cost. Other aftermarket items are pure unadulterated gargbage. Click here for a thread which has more info, unfortunately there is no easy solution, you need to do research on every part before purchase to see what brands are available and if the probability of good quality is worth the potential savings. Obviously there's no concern with copper washers but for the valve cover gaskets, don't buy the Victor-Reinz... only get OE/dealer. Victor is usually a decent brand but several people have reported fitment and sealing issues with the valve cover gaskets, and OE doesn't cost much more...

 

[Coled1001]

Thanks all for the great guidance much appreciated

 

[Stevester 500E]

What would you guys think an Indy MB mechanic would charge for just the labor to replace the oiler tubes?

Let's assume not rubber hoses bust etc.
Just labor.

 

[gsxr]

Replace all tubes? I'd guess 4-6 hours total labor, plus gaskets, tubes, and whatever might break while they're in there. Add a few bucks for "shop supplies".

 

[gerryvz]

$800-1000 for parts and labor, tax.

It's not possible really to do this job without having to replace some ancillary parts, such as the chain rail plastic retainers. And various top-end rubber, gaskets, hoses, vacuum lines, connectors, and so forth.

All up, count on $800 to do the job at the typical $100-125 per hour rate of a typical indy shop. A bit more in California/BSA, a bit less perhaps in RSA (Red State 'merica).

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Stevester 500E]

I didn't no that there were MB indy shops in RSA (Red State 'merica)??

I thought RSA were of the following thought: "MOPAR or nocar"

... A bit more in California/BSA, a bit less perhaps in RSA (Red State 'merica).

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gerryvz]

I didn't no that there were MB indy shops in RSA (Red State 'merica)??

I thought RSA were of the following thought: "MOPAR or nocar"

Well, we do have quite a few Benzes down in Texas, and some pretty good Indy shops to support them. At least in Houston and Dallas.

Can't get much more "Imperial" RSA than Texas

Except maybe Spudland (Gsxrville)....but we have better speed limits in Tejas

 

[Stevester 500E]

I think compressed air works fairly good on tubes from fairly well maintained engines.
But I have encountered some very grimy ones that look like mud went them and got baked in them.

I'm lazy and just blow compressed air through to clean them out. Wipe them clean with solvent and install. I don't even replace the O-rings unless the old ones are damaged or cracked. You can make them shiny clean if you want, but remember you can only see one of 'em through the oil fill hole...

 

[Stevester 500E]

I had one set of tubes that I wish I had not taken off the O-rings.
They were supple and of high quality.
They were O-rings from a very early R129.
But truthfully, I would probably replace most oiler O-rings that I have come across, just cause you are already in there type of thing.

.....I don't even replace the O-rings unless the old ones are damaged or cracked.

 

[gerryvz]

I always personally try to sell as "turnkey" as possible parts so as to avoid putting extra burden on the buyer to have to source extra stuff.

I do typically give the buyer the option of purchasing new o-rings or not, in case they want to save a few bucks. But I think it's only right to offer new o-rings.

Nothing sucks more than used soft parts.

Would you buy used lower control arms and re-use the bushings on them?

 

[gsxr]

LCA bushings are plain rubber and deteriorate significantly over time/miles.

The oil tube O-rings appear to be something like Viton (?) and I've yet to find any originals that were not still functional. And, I personally would not use aftermarket O-rings, I don't trust them to be OEM quality. On the bright side, new ones are $1.20 list from the dealer so you're only spending ~$30 for new OE.

By comparison, the oil dipstick tube O-ring is almost always rock hard & fossilized, unless a PO has replaced it recently. The oil tube O-rings are not like that.

 

[gerryvz]

I've salvaged probably 8-10 sets of oiler tubes from salvage vehicles. In many cases, the o-rings are quite fossilized upon removal, due to heat, age and just general exposure & wear and tear. In one or two cases I've even seen a broken o-ring.

There is a HUGE difference between new and old o-rings in terms of flexibility and sealing ability -- older o-rings get "crushed" over time into a flattened outside angle, and upon re-use in a new application may or may not seal correctly. If you don't believe me, remove an old o-ring and then roll on a new one (and remove it if you like). You'll see a huge difference in flexibility. Not to mention a distinctly more "rounded" outside profile -- i.e. the sealing surface that goes against the cylinder head oil passages.

The (assumed Viton) material of the factory and aftermarket o-rings (I've ordered and used both) is very bit identical to one another. Is the factory o-ring made of Viton, for sure? I've seen the same with the two o-rings that seal the EHA to the fuel distributor on M117 engines - factory and aftermarket Viton o-rings are identical in size, composition and quality. Most green o-rings that I have seen, are made of Viton - it's a common characteristic.

Unlike Chinese vs. German rubber, DuPont Viton is DuPont Viton. Sort of like DuPont nylon is DuPont nylon. If something says it's made of Viton (or nylon), then it is, or it's misusing the trademark of the ingredient material.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[E500star]

Dear "e500-professors"!
please can you tell me what is the other problems of plastic tubes beside of ticking?and what mileage they working well before ticking starts? My regards!

 

[gerryvz]

No set mileage and no other problems. It would likely be at 100,000 miles or more that a tube would blow out, though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Twilling]

Is there any chance to find out if my engine has aluminum plastic cam oiler tubes or plastic ones without removing the valve cover? Maybe a special date since they started using the plastic tubes? My car was produced in May 1992

 

[Stevester 500E]

You car originally came with aluminum oiler tubes.

Is there any chance to find out if my engine has aluminum plastic cam oiler tubes or plastic ones without removing the valve cover? Maybe a special date since they started using the plastic tubes? My car was produced in May 1992

 

[gsxr]

Is there any chance to find out if my engine has aluminum plastic cam oiler tubes or plastic ones without removing the valve cover? Maybe a special date since they started using the plastic tubes? My car was produced in May 1992

Flashlight through the oil fill cap will tell you for certain.

 

[Twilling]

Thanks mate. Just checked it through the Oil filler and saw the metal tube.

 

[Neoni]

Sorry to bother, maybe I missed it somewhere but what vehicles was originally equipped with aluminum tubes from factory?

 

[lowman]

Sorry to bother, maybe I missed it somewhere but what vehicles was originally equipped with aluminum tubes from factory?

when it comes to the w124 036...the pre facelift versions came with aluminium tubes from factory.IF you are in doubt..they are easily spottable if looking down in the filler cap...there you can spot one of them..and easily reckognisable

 

[gsxr]

Sorry to bother, maybe I missed it somewhere but what vehicles was originally equipped with aluminum tubes from factory?

Detailed discussion on the break point is in this old thread:

https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641

 

[a777fan]

Just used this guy yesterday. Excellent help and advice as usual!

I was able to free the timing chain guides without breaking them. I do not have a record of them being replaced in my car, and by the looks of the valve cover gasket, I wouldn't be surprised if they were in fact original. ~131k on the clock.

Not sure if my methodology had ANYTHING to do with it (YMMV), but I:

1. Removed the Allen bolts
2. Used my fingers to pry up lightly on all four top tangs. Pull the tangs back toward you gently such that their locking bar rests on top of the locking pegs of the other guide. The top pins are now 'released'
3. Keep your fingers in place on the top tangs so they don't slip back into a locked position. Now take a small flat bladed screwdriver and gently press down individually on the two remaining lower locking tabs that protrude out the back of the other guide piece. The slight force imparted by your fingers on the top tab (backward towards you) should result in each remaining locking tab popping out, one at a time.

Again, I don't know if this will have any bearing on your specific situation (who knows... my guides might have been replaced 25k ago, without a receipt), but as I said I wanted to share!

 

[gerryvz]

The upper timing chain guides are very difficult to remove without losing small pieces down into the motor. Fortunately they generally just descend down into the oilpan and won't negatively affect chain operation.

It's prudent preventative maintenance to replace these upper chain guides anytime one is replacing their plastic cam oiler tubes no matter what their car's mileage is, or any time the cam covers are off the heads. Particularly if your car has more than 125,000 miles on it. The plastic goes brittle with age, as well as use/heat cycles.

Fortunately, also, these upper chain rails are very very inexpensive from MB. DO NOT by aftermarket chain rails -- ONLY MB.

If you don't have them, put the four parts on your next parts order and keep them in your "hoard" for the next time you have the cam covers off the car.

Same thing for the cam cover gaskets.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Neoni]

Going to do this job next few days, but have a question here:
Is anyone know what are torque specifications for all these bolts, especially for a valve cover bolts, as I’ve seen a few times on internet that improper torque will damage valve cover and/or occur leaks
I am usually applying as much as possible of torque to bolts, but I know this is not the place to do that, so for proper installation what’s your guess on torque?
update: search through forum, find a how-to on valve cover gasket replacement, mentioned 9nm of torque?

 

[gerryvz]

Correct. Valve cover bolts require 8-9 Nm of torque.

Due to valve cover gasket compression (particularly if a new rubber gasket), I usually go back after 3-7 days and "re-torque" the valve covers down to spec. The rubber compresses and leaks can happen if things aren't carefully re-torqued. I do this on M119, M104 and M117 valve cover gaskets.

The actual replacement of the valve covers/gaskets is pretty much covered in this HOW-TO, as the covers must be removed to access the cam oiler tubes.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

update: search through forum, find a how-to on valve cover gasket replacement, mentioned 9nm of torque?

Yep, that is correct. Don't forget to replace the copper washers underneath the bolts (you need 18, order extras). And ONLY use Genuine Mercedes gaskets, the aftermarket ones don't fit properly, and cost the same vs Naperville (search forum if you're not familiar with the Naperville deal with free shipping).

Better check the PCV rubber hoses that connect to the valve covers BEFORE you start this job, if they are not recent, this is the time to replace all of them as well. They're supposed to be soft rubber, and are usually fossilized. Order the "fingered" top/center chain rail clips as well, if yours aren't recent, they'll probably break when you remove them to change the front oil tube on each bank.

 

[BigWillieStyle]

Since oiler tubes have become somewhat of a "liquidity instrument" kind of like cigarettes in prison, thought I'd add this resource. It'd be interesting if someone fab'd their own metal tubes out of machinery lubrication accessory components with part # numbers, etc.

https://www.gitsmfg.com/

http://www.devcocorp.com/american/gits_2000catalog.pdf

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Gerry, huge thanks for this DIY thread, read through it last night, gathered needed tools, the removal at pick-a-part went as smooth as it could be! Now I know that when the time comes, I would take on this project with out hesitation!

On the side note, those plastic clip on rails - what a brittle little boogers!!! When I removed one of the covers, noted a piece of this brittle plastic wedged into corner of the head (not my doing), engine had 166K

20190210_104839 by Duh_Vinci, on Flickr

Regards,

D

 

[gsxr]

On the side note, those plastic clip on rails - what a brittle little boogers!!! When I removed one of the covers, noted a piece of this brittle plastic wedged into corner of the head (not my doing), engine had 166K

The fingered/clip-on rails normally are quite flexible when fresh. When old and fossilized, they break if you look at them wrong. Thankfully they are cheap AND easy to replace.

The wedgie you see is the top portion of the inner chain rail... sorry for the bad news. Rails are cheap but it's a ton of work to R&R these, as the intake cam adjuster has to come off to get access (along with almost all the stuff bolted to the front of the engine). I have pics on my website (click here) showing more of this job, and I had the same broken piece visible up top.

 

[Duh_Vinci]

The fingered/clip-on rails normally are quite flexible when fresh. When old and fossilized, they break if you look at them wrong. Thankfully they are cheap AND easy to replace.

The wedgie you see is the top portion of the inner chain rail... sorry for the bad news. Rails are cheap but it's a ton of work to R&R these, as the intake cam adjuster has to come off to get access (along with almost all the stuff bolted to the front of the engine). I have pics on my website (click here) showing more of this job, and I had the same broken piece visible up top.

Wow, exactly the same and the same area where yours was wedged in (your pic):

Great info there Dave, thanks for the education! Wonder what will I find in mine (some day)? BTW, are there any audible signs (or other) wo removing the valve cover to know if these are in pieces?

Regards,
D