HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

[Roma_500E]

If you remove all of the cam bearing caps, be sure you do so in the correct order of removal and reassembly. If you remove them one at a time (for installing the oiler tubes, as I did above) then you just re-assemble how you removed each one.



In Roma's particular case, I am not 100% convinced of this. Look at the photo below from my engine. You can clearly see the green paint on one of the cam bearing caps. It is a much brighter and clearer green, and in a different position, than the darkish green/black/brown residue on Roma's cam bearing caps. Furthermore Roma's residue is on every cap and in a different configuration (not daubed on by a brush in a fairly consistent manner).

The fact that Roma's residue comes off easily with a fingernail (whereas mine did not, as I cleaned every cam bearing cap) also indicates that it is not green factory cam bearing cap paint.


As I said, I have no problem using a mild wire brush (as I indicated above), carefully cleaning and inspecting afterward, to clean anything that is stubborn and needs cleaning. In the case of a cam bearing cap, I agree that it would best be cleaned while removed from the engine, as I did my own when I documented the job above.

Cheers,
Gerry

Most likely greenish residue is something that contains in oil ( fully synthetic mobil-1).

Yup I m planning to replace tubes one by one as you did. I read your report so that I know all short details like to lubricate cam bearings

I m also planning to pump out all the oil seen on a picture and then perform the oil change .

 

[036/199]

It looks like paint(although not only on one cap and darker than factory).
And is the most plausible explanation as any kind of oil residue would not manifest itself in that area and not in green color.
What is plausible is the heads were rebuilt at some point and whoever did it was smart enough to indicate that after checking all caps nothing was machined.

And I still recommend against the wire brush method inside any engine parts.
No matter how much attention you pay,it is possible that something makes its way into the engine and creates damage.

 

[Roma_500E]

It looks like paint(although not only on one cap and darker than factory).
And is the most plausible explanation as any kind of oil residue would not manifest itself in that area and not in green color.
What is plausible is the heads were rebuilt at some point and whoever did it was smart enough to indicate that after checking all caps nothing was machined.

Very unlikely in my case. As far as I know and see nobody touched the engine except spark plugs, rotor caps, air filter and engine wire harness.

I have to replace every single, wire, hose, line, screw, piston, cap , cover or whatever I touch while performing some other work.

Every system I touched like ignition, ended up by replacing most of it components.

The same with lines and hoses, gaskets so on. So that gives an idea that nobody touch it since factory made it .

However, it makes me think that it is paint marks too because they are in a consistent order in one place. If it was dirt it would not be that consistent ....

I will open a passenger side and see if we have the same marks/dirt

 

[Roma_500E]

P.S. Ordered

1. New washers (damn $1.20 each ) x 18
2. New upper chain guides left and right X4
3. Cam tube seals ( $1.70 each) x 32

Due to severe weather all deliveries are delayed .
Hopefully will get all parts by Tuesday . By the end of the next week beauty should be ready

 

[gerryvz]

Chicks dig red valve covers you think ?

Why are you asking me this question? I've been married going on 18 years......

Due to severe weather all deliveries are delayed .

You should move to Texas. 73 degrees outside right now, supposed to be 78F on Sunday. No bugs, low humidity. Perfect weather to work on cars


Take very good care as you replace the covers, to make sure they are fully sealed at the rear. It is very easy to shift the seal and create a BIG oil leak when you start the engine

 

[gsxr]

You should move to Texas. ... No bugs, low humidity.

In Houston? As in Texas, USA? GERRY GERRY PANTS ON FIRE!!!

 

[gerryvz]

In Houston? As in Texas, USA? GERRY GERRY PANTS ON FIRE!!!

Bugs and humidity don't start until April/May. Now to May 1 are the most moderate/temperate months of the year here. Why do you think I did my first top-end rebuild (SEC) starting Feb. 28, 2010 with a window to May 1?

Four years on, I am now acclimated and can work year around (as demonstrated by my E320 rebuild, started on November 27th and finished end of January).

In any case, I spent weeks and months scoping out the job and waiting for the weather to get warm enough so that I could work comfortably out in the garage, but still be early enough in the year to avoid the Houston heat and humidity. So it seemed a perfect time to do what I think is going to be about a 5-6 week job.

Careful with how you throw those CYAs out there, or you just might get hit with the NEWEST 500Eboard Award: the Clarkie Award.

 

[gsxr]

Doooood. I've BEEN to Houston. In February.

[insert Clarkie here]

 

[Roma_500E]

Why are you asking me this question? I've been married going on 18 years......

Married but still in a good shape and brilliant expert on "what chicks dig the most". So that is why I am asking you

You should move to Texas. 73 degrees outside right now, supposed to be 78F on Sunday. No bugs, low humidity. Perfect weather to work on cars


Take very good care as you replace the covers, to make sure they are fully sealed at the rear. It is very easy to shift the seal and create a BIG oil leak when you start the engine

This is the perfect weather...... to keep a car in a heated garage

 

[Roma_500E]

Today

1. Cleaned the head edges so now it is ready for fresh gasket and boots.

2. Cleaned all 16 cam tubes so they are ready to get a fresh O-rings

3. On the passenger side I was able to disconnect hose on a valve cover from hose on ETA and connected the old ETA hose with the fresh valve cover elbow hose. The reason I did that way is that I do not have ETA to replace mine but I do have all hoses and already have replaced most of them. That is a good note for those who do not want to touch ETA.

 

[gerryvz]

Married but still in a good shape and brilliant expert on "what chicks dig the most". So that is why I am asking you

Well, I'm only about 1,500 days away from turning 50, so have to leave the chick-chasin' to you twenty- and thirty-somethings like yourself, Jono and GSXR. 50....now that's a depressing thought. Doesn't seem too long ago that I was 20 years old myself (at Oregon St. University) .... LOL !!

 

[Roma_500E]

Well, I'm only about 1,500 days away from turning 50, so have to leave the chick-chasin' to you twenty- and thirty-somethings like yourself, Jono and GSXR. 50....now that's a depressing thought. Doesn't seem too long ago that I was 20 years old myself (at Oregon St. University) .... LOL !!

Come on ? Who is an expert on this board ? Who always tells what parts are the best to get more chicks ? Who asked me for documented proof ?

50 years? depressing thought, bla bla , nobody is going to believe you

Cool picture by the way

 

[Ron500E]

Come on ? Who is an expert on this board ? Who always tells what parts are the best to get more chicks ? Who asked me for documented proof ?

50 years? depressing thought, bla bla , nobody is going to believe you

Cool picture by the way

50, you're mere child. I'm going to be 60 in May... I have the Gravediggers Union protesting outside my door, they're claiming every day that goes by I'm preventing them from working....
As far as "what chicks want," I have several ex wife's (2) and one current one so I have an idea, but not for the long run unfortunately. It's more of a short term idea as to what they want...

Ron

 

[Maui]

50, you're mere child. I'm going to be 60 in May... I have the Gravediggers Union protesting outside my door, they're claiming every day that goes by I'm preventing them from working....

That is funny, I don't care who you are. I hear ya...I'll be turning 58 next month.

As far as "what chicks want," I have several ex wife's (2) and one current one so I have an idea, but not for the long run unfortunately. It's more of a short term idea as to what they want...

Ron

I've been married for 30 years and still don't know what they (she) wants. I'm guessing it must be watching me spend money on my cars.

 

[Roma_500E]

I m done with my small job and here are few comments.

For some reason I got the valve covers right (left and right) for the one try ( probably because I was scared by Gerrry's report and was extremely careful so got it right fro just one try).

For the finicky bolt on the passenger side I did my own tool , cut the 5mm hex and insert it into 3/16 socket.

I did not use any sealant as Gerry and Dave recommended but if I got leaks I will write to both of you guys.

My old plastic cam tubes were pretty loose for some reason.

Since I did it in 2014 (after increase in prices) it might me useful to know the budget and list for the one who is planning to do it this year.

1. Oil cam tubes (dot them from Fred, board member, thanx Fred for a great deal !)
2. Cam tubes O-rings X 32 x $1.50 (PN 015-997-31-48, interesting fact is they are made in Ireland)
3. Bolt copper washers X18 x $1.40 (PN007603-006106)
4. Valve cover gaskets X2 x $42.50
5. Timing chain guides X2 (bottom clips) x $11.50
6. Timing chain guide left and right $19.50+$17.50
7. Pack of soda (Pepsi) $4.99

These are local stealer list prices.

P.S. This type of job 100% requires fresh vacuum hoses because old one will break for sure.

P.S. 2. I also removed old sticker on driver side valve cover and ordered new one. In addition, ordered most of the stickers on the front part of the car that look worn.

 

[gerryvz]

Good work.

If you seated the valve covers correctly, and then tightened them down enough, you won't have any leaks. NEVER EVER use any sort of RTV sealant on the valve covers. Save that for cam solenoids and timing covers only.

You could have saved some money with parts.com, eh?

The chicks should start running to you when they find out you have the metal oiler tubes.

 

[Roma_500E]

Good work.

If you seated the valve covers correctly, and then tightened them down enough, you won't have any leaks. NEVER EVER use any sort of RTV sealant on the valve covers. Save that for cam solenoids and timing covers only.

You could have saved some money with parts.com, eh?

The chicks should start running to you when they find out you have the metal oiler tubes.

by Gerry.

My stealer prices after discount are the same or less (in case of big $$$ items) than parts.com. In addition, every time I go order or pick parts I always have couple of cups of hot sweet chocolate.
This year they got a new machine which makes incredible drinks

Sounds like metal tubes are right investment

 

[Maui]

Looks very clean.

 

[emerydc8]

My old plastic cam tubes were pretty loose for some reason.

You know, I took a video below of my 95 E420 a few months ago because I was wondering if it is normal to have the tubes that loose. Every one of these tubes is loose. I wonder if this affects the operation of the engine?

http://youtu.be/0sw1hVMYLOE

 

[Roma_500E]

You know, I took a video below of my 95 E420 a few months ago because I was wondering if it is normal to have the tubes that loose. Every one of these tubes is loose. I wonder if this affects the operation of the engine?

http://youtu.be/0sw1hVMYLOE

Yup this is exactly what I had with my old ones.

I should not worry now since I got all new tubes but I am still curious if it affects or not ? (the new ones are pretty tight but not super tight)

Lets wait, somebody should know for sure.

 

[gerryvz]

As I recall (I would have noted it in the HOW TO) my tubes were not tight, but not loose either. I could set them in with a bit of resistance and a "snap" downward but it didn't take a lot of force to push them into place. I do not believe they are supposed to be super tight. They are held down by the edges of the bearing caps and can't really come free.

By the way Roma, good on you for getting both valve covers the first try. The main problem I had was the rear of the seal coming loose from the cover as I pushed it down into place at the rear. Kept happening, was SO frustrating. It's a friction fit so not difficult for them to come off the edge of the cover.

 

[emerydc8]

I think this is a case where Victor Reinz is not a good choice compared to the factory gaskets, especially when you can get the factory gaskets for about the same price from parts.com. They stay attached to the rear of the valve covers so much better.

 

[gerryvz]

I would ALWAYS prefer Elring or factory MB gaskets over Reinz, if there is a choice. But I'd take Reinz over a no-name (or worse, Chinese/URO/etc.) gasket any day.

Thankfully, we don't have the gasket issues on the M119 like the poor sods do who own M104s, M117s and the like......

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

Sounds good, Roma! FYI, if you ordered a replacement yellow decal, the 123- part number, from your dealer... it MAY supercede to a new 204- part number that you don't want. MB Classic has repop'd the originals but I think you'll need to order direct from them. Wait and see what shows up at your dealer first.

Gerry, RTV is a no-no on the cam solenoids... remember, I broke a solenoid trying to remove it when a PO had used RTV, which acts like superglue over the large surface area. Ditto for all the covers on the M119. All of the above use the koala-grade l'orange anaerobic sealant. AFAIK, MB only specifies RTV for a very small area on the main oil pan where the block and timing cover meet... nowhere else.

 

[gerryvz]

Sounds good, Roma! FYI, if you ordered a replacement yellow decal, the 123- part number, from your dealer... it MAY supercede to a new 204- part number that you don't want. MB Classic has repop'd the originals but I think you'll need to order direct from them. Wait and see what shows up at your dealer first.

I ordered the yellow sticker from the EPC, whcih is same on the 104 as on the 119. And I got the small 204 yellow sticker (check my 104 Rebuild thread for details). That was back in December, I doubt much has changed. Probably should call the Classic Center on that one.

Gerry, RTV is a no-no on the cam solenoids... remember, I broke a solenoid trying to remove it when a PO had used RTV, which acts like superglue over the large surface area.

I meant orange stuff, not RTV. Was using it as a generic term. My bad.

 

[Roma_500E]

Sounds good, Roma! FYI, if you ordered a replacement yellow decal, the 123- part number, from your dealer... it MAY superceded to a new 204- part number that you don't want. MB Classic has repop'd the originals but I think you'll need to order direct from them. Wait and see what shows up at your dealer first.

I ordered the yellow sticker from the EPC, whcih is same on the 104 as on the 119. And I got the small 204 yellow sticker (check my 104 Rebuild thread for details). That was back in December, I doubt much has changed. Probably should call the Classic Center on that one.

Damn, when I was removing the old sticker I thought that I heard somewhere about this issue (small sticker) but was not able to recall where. So most likely nothing changed and I ll get the improper A204 sticker :?

Does anybody here (Dave ? Gerry ?) have the spare one so that I can buy it from you guys ? Otherwise I ll have to call mbclassic just to buy a sticker. By the way, do they sell duplicate ones I mean not OE quality sticker ?

 

[gsxr]

I got a couple from Tom at Classic. They are extremely similar to the originals, but not 100% identical. You would never notice unless you put the old & new side by side. The font is a bit taller on the new ones. I think the new ones are a bit lighter yellow color but that's hard to say since the old ones are darkened by heat & age.

 

[Roma_500E]

I got a couple from Tom at Classic. They are extremely similar to the originals, but not 100% identical. You would never notice unless you put the old & new side by side. The font is a bit taller on the new ones. I think the new ones are a bit lighter yellow color but that's hard to say since the old ones are darkened by heat & age.

PM sent . Hopefully you will sell me one.

 

[Roma_500E]

Looks like MB is now selling the correct A123 sticker. Here is what I ve just received.

Now my the engine looks complete

 

[clarkz71]

Gerry is going to love that.

Nice looking engine compartment.

 

[Roma_500E]

Gerry is going to love that.

Nice looking engine compartment.

Thanx , I still have few more things to replace/clean so that I will have perfect engine compartment.

I m wondering if this sticker has any effect on chicks

 

[gerryvz]

Why do you have an AMG badge on your air box?

Have you been holding back on us that your car is an E60?

 

[Roma_500E]

Why do you have an AMG badge on your air box?

Have you been holding back on us that your car is an E60?

It is an E60 but in my heart

 

[gerryvz]

You'd get far more chicks if you'd replace all MB emblems on the car with Porsche crests & a Porsche license plate frame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Maui]

I put porsche tire valve stem caps on mine and I've fighting off the chicks ever since.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Roma_500E]

You'd get far more chicks if you'd replace all MB emblems on the car with Porsche crests & a Porsche license plate frame.

Nope I do not like that idea. I am almost about to delete the AMG badge on the engine and the trunk lid so that I have 500E left only. I know I did not do the best thing when I put these badges but I could not remove them right away because I paid $62 each I have had them for year or so that means now I can remove them

P.S. I should have admit that I had "Porsche of Maplewood" license plate frame

I put porsche tire valve stem caps on mine and I've fighting off the chicks ever since.

That is what I did a year ago too. The only thing I do not like about Porsche valve caps (bought them at dealer) is that they are plastic. For example BMW caps are metal :x However, mine are in a great shape for one year/3000+ miles./

 

[Maui]

That is what I did a year ago too. The only thing I do not like about Porsche valve caps (bought them at dealer) is that they are plastic. For example BMW caps are metal :x However, mine are in a great shape for one year/3000+ miles./

Mine are metal, which is probably what drives the ladies crazy. No rubbers allowed.

 

[Roma_500E]

Mine are metal, which is probably what drives the ladies crazy. No rubbers allowed.

Where did you get them ? Feebay ? Would you mind to post pic somewhere ? Mine's are plastic and color Porsche logo.

 

[Maui]

Ebay

Here's some. I think I paid $5 for mine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OEM-Porsche-Full-Color-Valve-Stem-Cap-Kit-/331133741762?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d191beac2&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-For-Porsche-Car-Wheel-Airtight-Tyre-Tire-Stem-Air-Valve-Caps-4pcs-1-keychain-/281274771899?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3APorsche&hash=item417d4869bb&vxp=mtr

These are the ones I have. Anti-theft. :lol:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Porsche-Car-Wheel-Tire-Valve-Stem-Air-Dust-Covers-Caps-Anti-Theft-Locking-/251461401686?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a8c447c56&vxp=mtr

 

[Roma_500E]

lol, anti-theft

Looks like yours aftermarket ones but mine a genuine Porsche AG product

 

[Maui]

lol, anti-theft

Looks like yours aftermarket ones but mine a genuine Porsche AG product

The foxes love them.

 

[baviking1]

There is no VIN break, and no date break. Most 1992 models have metal oil tubes, but some late builds may have plastic. (Most 93 have plastic, but some early builds may have metal.) July 1992 is a late-build 1992 model year so it could have plastic tubes. More info is here.

The difference is very obvious visually, plastic are black, metal are gray/brown aluminum colored, as shown in Gerry's photos:

View attachment 17231

OK Dave, GVZ, et al; I just pulled a set of tubes a couple of days ago, and am wondering if you have any thoughts on the best way to clean them up before new orings/install? I was considering a quick soak in lacquer thinner/compressed air to clean gunk out of the passageways, then hit them with the wire brush on my bench grinder......

 

[gsxr]

I'm lazy and just blow compressed air through to clean them out. Wipe them clean with solvent and install. I don't even replace the O-rings unless the old ones are damaged or cracked. You can make them shiny clean if you want, but remember you can only see one of 'em through the oil fill hole...

 

[baviking1]

I'm lazy and just blow compressed air through to clean them out. Wipe them clean with solvent and install. I don't even replace the O-rings unless the old ones are damaged or cracked. You can make them shiny clean if you want, but remember you can only see one of 'em through the oil fill hole...

How the heck are you supposed to have a fighting chance to keep up to the guys with the red ones, if yours arent at least a little shiny??

 

[baviking1]

I would ALWAYS prefer Elring or factory MB gaskets over Reinz, if there is a choice. But I'd take Reinz over a no-name (or worse, Chinese/URO/etc.) gasket any day.

Thankfully, we don't have the gasket issues on the M119 like the poor sods do who own M104s, M117s and the like......

Cheers,
Gerry

So OEM gaskets not available from parts.com? I have a lot of trouble with part #'s coming up "Make not available" on that site (but then you and Dave seem to get them to come up OK). Just upgraded from XP to windows 7; doesn't seem make any diff.....

 

[gerryvz]

ONLY OE gaskets are available through parts.com. Elring just happens to be the big MB OEM for a lot of head, exhaust, intake and related gaskets, at the moment....

Use this link to input MB part numbers at Parts.com ... DO NOT use the catalog or diagrams:

http://www.parts.com/parts/index.cf...ear=&searchText=&action=oePartSearch&siteid=2

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[baviking1]

ONLY OE gaskets are available through parts.com. Elring just happens to be the big MB OEM for a lot of head, exhaust, intake and related gaskets, at the moment....

Use this link to input MB part numbers at Parts.com ... DO NOT use the catalog or diagrams:

http://www.parts.com/parts/index.cf...ear=&searchText=&action=oePartSearch&siteid=2

Cheers,
Gerry

Thx Gerry, it worked now. Parts.com page I was using looked EXACTLY like that; don't know WTH the diff was.....

 

[baviking1]

GVZ, did you find (like I did) that it takes a much greater amount of torque (x3) than 10 NM to break the bearing caps free? Retightening the bolts seems almost minimal in comparison. Assuming it could be from heat/age, but is it possible the factory used a much higher spec?

 

[gerryvz]

GVZ, did you find (like I did) that it takes a much greater amount of torque (x3) than 10 NM to break the bearing caps free? Retightening the bolts seems almost minimal in comparison. Assuming it could be from heat/age, but is it possible the factory used a much higher spec?

Yes, they did seem much tighter than the spec'd torque rating (though NOWHERE near as tight as the M104 cam bearing caps I tried and failed to remove on my M104 top-end rebuild).

I believe it's caused by repeated heat cycling and the oil serves as a bit of a "glue" that soft of melds the caps and the head sealing surfaces together a bit over time. It's a good idea when you are re-assembling things, to coat the bottom of the cam bearing cap and its corresponding mating surface on the cylinder head with a very light coat of motor oil before installing each bearing cap and tightening it down. They do not require much torque to bring to spec, that's for sure.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[baviking1]

Yes, they did seem much tighter than the spec'd torque rating (though NOWHERE near as tight as the M104 cam bearing caps I tried and failed to remove on my M104 top-end rebuild).

I believe it's caused by repeated heat cycling and the oil serves as a bit of a "glue" that soft of melds the caps and the head sealing surfaces together a bit over time. It's a good idea when you are re-assembling things, to coat the bottom of the cam bearing cap and its corresponding mating surface on the cylinder head with a very light coat of motor oil before installing each bearing cap and tightening it down. They do not require much torque to bring to spec, that's for sure.

Cheers,
Gerry

I THOUGHT so!! 10 NM is like not even tightening them.....