• Hi Guest !

    Welcome to the 500Eboard forum.

    Since its founding in late 2008, 500Eboard has become the leading resource on the Internet for all things related to the Mercedes-Benz 500E and E500. In recent years, we have also expanded to include the 400E and E420 models, which are directly related to the 500E/E500.

    We invite you to browse and take advantage of the information and resources here on the site. If you find helpful information, please register for full membership, and you'll find even more resources available. Feel free to ask questions, and make liberal use of the "Search" function to find answers.

    We hope you will become an active contributor to the community!

    Sincerely,
    500Eboard Management

HOW-TO: Replacing M119 camshaft oiler tubes

What exact type / viscosity Amsoil have you been using? It's odd to see cam bearing cap scoring.

:blink:
 
That rear cam cover bolt was a PITA for me, and took me many tries with the swivel to actually get the tool to seat into the bolt head.
You do not want to strip that bolt! There is a little LESS room to work on the passenger side, so give yourself extra time and a cool engine to do the job.
I did not replace my rubber vacuum tube that runs to the ETA because I was scared of it and thought it could wait until later.:o
 
I did not replace my rubber vacuum tube that runs to the ETA because I was scared of it and thought it could wait until later.:o
+1 on avoiding the ETA hose. If the ETA is original, removing it could disturb the wires with the ban insulation, resulting in needing to replace the ETA along with the hose. If the ETA is already replaced / rebuilt, then it's not a concern. Either way, it's a nuisance to pull the ETA to replace the hose... thankfully it only needs to be done about once every 10 years or so.

:slosh:
 
Dave,
Currently using Amsoil 10W-40, code AMO. In the past have used "Signature" series. Usually change the oil every 5-8K and get an analysis, never seen any issues.

Trae,
I can imagine the problem getting the 5mm swivel socket seated on the passenger side. On the driver side I could just get my hand in sufficiently to help seat the allen socket.

Since the "ticking" seems to be cured I am going to wait a while to do the passenger side. The vacuum tubes are really cooked and I am afraid of cracking them. Besides, I am not sure if my skills are up to pulling the ETA should that be necessary. Next job is to replace the SLS accumulators -- ride has become very firm and the rear end feels different going though bends.
 
AMO is good stuff... exactly what I'd recommend from Amsoil's lineup. I'm not familiar with the Signature series. 5-8k on AMO with analysis is perfect, just keep TBN above 2.0. I'd pretend I didn't see the scoring, lol. :noevil:

While the valve cover(s) are off, I'd consider replacing all the PCV tubing if it's fossilized. There is a part number list posted somewhere on the forum.

Overly firm rear suspension does sound like failed nitrogen spheres... there may be a DIY writeup on the forum. Pretty straightforward job, I believe, although I've not yet had to do it myself!

:banana1:
 
My nitrogen spheres had also failed. Seemed as though I was riding on a brick when hitting a bump.
Replacing them made a GREAT difference!
 
Here are some tips and tricks that I cut and pasted from a post I think on PeachParts forum on doing this job. I had emailed this to myself some time ago before I did this job, and a few of the tips were useful as I planned it out. I was getting ready to delete the email and thought the tips were valuable enough to add here, for any folks who want to do this job in the future.

Cheers,
Gerry

A buddy and I finally replaced the camshaft oiler tubes on our cars this weekend - on my 1995 E420 and his 1993 500E.

Some observations to help anyone else considering doing this on their W124 cars:

1) Make sure that you, in fact, have plastic oil tubes that need replacing! We got the valve covers on the 500E open and discovered that the oiler tubes were the metal ones. The build date on this car is 12/92, so maybe it was close to the cut-over date when plastic was used. The E420 did have plastic tubes, but there were NO plug-ends blown out, which is the reason for replacing these. Regardless, a good preventative measure.

2) Have all new rubber breather tubes ready - they'll need replacing. On both the 500E and the E420, these rubber crankcase ventilation tubes were hardened like fossils, and needed replacement. You'll need the small gauge tubes for the driver's side valve cover, and the wide gauge tubes for the passenger side.

Note that the passenger side wide-gauge tube connects to the throttle body, and requires removal of the throttle body to replace the 3rd of three tubes (held together with connectors). The tube connected to the throttle body is held on with a clamp. I chose to NOT replace this tube, because I didn't feel like removing the entire throttle body to replace a tube that was probably clamped on tight anyway.

3) Have a 1/4 inch 5mm socket drive WITH ELBOWs ready. We did not have this tool available, and we really needed it to remove the back valve cover bolts down by the firewall. They were REALLY hard to remove - requiring cutting down an allen wrench, pushing the engine to one side, and holding the allen wrench in place with needle nose pliers to "break' the bolt loose. My mechanic said that a 1/4" drive 5mm allen socket will do this job well, but all we had were 3/8" sockets, which DO NOT work.

4) make sure to remove the spark plug connectors and blow out the wells BEFORE removing the valve covers, or else grit will fly out all over your camshafts.

5) Torque all of the valve-cover bolts on to 1/2 of required spec first, then tighten again to full torque spec. The covers have quite a bit of crush to them - and will sit better if they all come down evenly.

6) the engine bay in the 500E is slightly larger than the E420. This was most evident when trying to get the passenger side valve cover bolt removed closest to the firewall. On the 500E it was hard, on the E420 it was damn near impossible (without the proper tools).

7) The wiring harnesses on both cars were noticeably deteriorated. You can get the best idea for your harness's condition by looking at the brown ground wire that connects to the intake manifold on the passenger side of the engine, right underneath the air cleaner assembly. This is visible with only the air cleaner removed - so anyone can check their harness in about 1 minute. The insulation on both cars was cracked in several places.

8) The idiot award for past maintenance goes to me. i didn't realize that the air cleaner assembly removes by pulling up on the front and sliding it out. I actually used to unlatch all of the air cleaner clips (even those real tough ones back by the firewall) to replace my air filters. I felt real dumb when my buddy took the whole box off in about 4 seconds.

We took pictures of this job and will try to work a companion piece to the excellent DIY article by Greg Baxter, specific to the W124.


This repair isn't cheap, oiler tubes should run around $200, plus rubber tubes (maybe $80) and valve cover gaskets (around $40-80). make sure to change the spark plugs while you're in there, takes about 5 minutes extra. it's worth the cost for the piece of mind.

OH - and I forgot - replace the timing chain guide while you're in there. These are plastic, 2-piece guides that wrap around the top of the chain. Cheap parts (I think $10 each), one set for each side). BE CAREFUL when you remove the old parts, as they WILL come apart. Stuff a bunch of plastic wrap underneath the part when you remove it to catch the little plastic piece s that will snap off. Replacement is easy - just bolt the main part onto the engine, and snap the 2nd part into place around the chain.
 
Here are some tips and tricks that I cut and pasted from a post I think on PeachParts forum on doing this job. I had emailed this to myself some time ago before I did this job, and a few of the tips were useful as I planned it out. I was getting ready to delete the email and thought the tips were valuable enough to add here, for any folks who want to do this job in the future.


I didn't know this about the air filter box....I usually remove all the clips (PIA) to get to my K&N filters to clean them. Did you guys know this??
 
RE: metal oil tubes engine number break.

Aluminum tubes:

119.970 up to eng# 031253

119.971 up to eng# 015654

119.972 up to eng# 002822

119.974 up to eng# 007126,

119.975 up to eng# 008748
 
Just want to say that this site helped me out more than you could imagine. Even though my car is a "97" S-500, I found all the info very close to being correct for my model. I had gone to three different mechanics getting their opinion as to how to solve my problem of valve noise, and was told every BS story in the book from guys that should know what they were talking about. One guy even told me I over reved the engine and bent several pushrods. Seems to me a dual cam V-8 engine is made to be reved, even though that is not what happened (plus it doesn't have push rods). I have already done the passenger side and that's where most of my problem was, found three tubes with the caps blown out. This was the first time I've had a wrench in my hand in thirty years. I'm 70 years old and was a truck owner-operator back in the 1970's, before that I was a heavy equipment and truck mechanic for ten years so I have a little experience under my belt! Just want to say thanks Jerry, you saved me a lot of $$$ and helped me restore some faith in myself that I can still fix a car when I have to.
 
Just want to say that this site helped me out more than you could imagine. Even though my car is a "97" S-500, I found all the info very close to being correct for my model. I had gone to three different mechanics getting their opinion as to how to solve my problem of valve noise, and was told every BS story in the book from guys that should know what they were talking about. One guy even told me I over reved the engine and bent several pushrods. Seems to me a dual cam V-8 engine is made to be reved, even though that is not what happened (plus it doesn't have push rods). I have already done the passenger side and that's where most of my problem was, found three tubes with the caps blown out. This was the first time I've had a wrench in my hand in thirty years. I'm 70 years old and was a truck owner-operator back in the 1970's, before that I was a heavy equipment and truck mechanic for ten years so I have a little experience under my belt! Just want to say thanks Jerry, you saved me a lot of $$$ and helped me restore some faith in myself that I can still fix a car when I have to.
Thank you for the kind feedback.

That is why this site exists and why we do what we do. Glad that the information could be of service, and solved the issue. 3 caps popped! Wow!

Oh, and :welcome:
 
Awesome write up. But I guess I should have read the entire stream. I used the gaskets from Autohaus AZ instead of Mercedes. We will see how they hold & I guess I will order new ones from parts.com & replace the gaskets. I did use the red aluminum cam oilers from autohausAZ - I hope those work out ok.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    920.5 KB · Views: 5
Those are nice looking oil tubes :-)
You should be fine with the aftermarket gaskets, the only issue with them is that they are harder to install because they tend to fall off while installing. Once on, they see to seal fine. I have a set from Autohaus on one car and the MB set on the other. Both are fine but the MB set installed easier.
 
Thanks Glen. They seemed to go on OK. It was fun to do it. This was on my 420. The 500 has not made any ticking noises. I'll pull the cover on that one & check for metal cam oilers one day. Thanks again.
 
You can see what type of tubes are installed by looking through the oil filler hole.
 
I'm running a special on factory re manufactured aluminum oil tubes. $110 shipped on the US.

EDIT: Woops! The deal I'm running on tubes is actually $150/set. Sorry for the confusion!
 
If you look at the original post here, as well as various threads in the "parts for sale" sub-forum, you will see plenty of info on "used" sets of M119 metal oiler tubes for sale by a few different folks here.

I do not believe that J-Sauce-sold metal oiler tubes would be materially different than those sold by another individual, unless the Sauceman perhaps put new o-rings on them, or removed any oil varnish, etc.
 
I believe J-sauce installs new o-rings and does refinish them to look factory fresh.
 
I do not believe that J-Sauce-sold metal oiler tubes would be materially different than those sold by another individual, unless the Sauceman perhaps put new o-rings on them, or removed any oil varnish, etc.
I believe Justin does exactly that, where most other sellers do not.

:pc1:
 
factory re manufactured aluminum oil tubes.

That sounded like a new dealer program the way he put it.

Factory to me means Mercedes, the factory.

I couldn't see that with the plastic ones making them money.

He means used oil tubes cleaned up with new o-rings.
.
 
Philip: I have the autohaus ones in mine, too - first repair done on my car when I purchased it (horrible ticking noise), now 50k miles and no issues. Only difference, they were blue, not red, so they do give me an extra hp or two since I'm gliding the wake of the doppler shift of the higher frequency color.
 
they were blue, not red, so they do give me an extra hp or two since I'm gliding the wake of the doppler shift of the higher frequency color.
proxy.php
 
That is awesome Jano. While blue may give extra hp (hah) - the red does look pretty darned snappy. Thanks for the input. I'll be checking the oilers on my 500. This was on the 420.
 
I must apologize, I posted the deal as $110 shipped, when I am actually selling the tubes for $150. Sometimes my fingers are too fat to work a small phone screen, and in turn the font is sometimes too small to see when I make a mistake.

Anyhow, what I meant by "factory re manufactured tubes" is: Factory aluminum tubes, re manufactured by me. I pull the tubes from early M119 motors in local wrecking yards. It usually takes me about an hour once I find the car to pull the tubes. An hour or so in travel total, plus walking around the yards searching for cars. And then there are those days I head to the yards and find nothing at all. When I get home I first remove all the old O-Rings, then chemically remove all traces of old oil/varnish/gunk from the surfaces and oil channels and then fit them with new OEM O-Rings. Then I package each tube individually, which I admit is probably unnecessary, but seeing as many broken tubes being sold as I have, I do it anyhow. then I drive to the post office and ship them out. Ask Dave how many broken tubes he has paid full price for from other sellers. ;)

I'm not really making a profit selling them for $150, but I am being paid for my time.

Just looking for full transparency here, which I hope is worth something to you guys :)

Cheers!
Justin
 
RE: metal oil tubes engine number break.

Aluminum tubes:

119.970 up to eng# 031253

119.971 up to eng# 015654

119.972 up to eng# 002822

119.974 up to eng# 007126,

119.975 up to eng# 008748

My engine number 119974 12 006313. Does this mean I have metal oil tubes?
 
My engine number 119974 12 006313. Does this mean I have metal oil tubes?
Not necessarily. See post #39. It's a good possibility, but you must visually check your tubes via the oil fill cap. The info at the link in post #39 conflicts with the break points shown above.

:detective:
 
My engine number 119974 12 006313. Does this mean I have metal oil tubes?

I've seen 12/92 build date 500E's with aluminum tubes.

Like gsxr has said, remove the oil filler cap and look inside with a light,
 
I looked tonight and sure enough I have the metal tubes. Sorry Justin but I won't be needing the tubes.
 
Here is my turn to replace valve cover gaskets which became like a stone.

I am also planning to put metal cam tubes. :sawzall:

I took off the valve cover and found couple of suspicious things.

1) What is this greenish stuff ? (circled)
2) What are those marks on the timing chain mean ? (immediate replacement ?)
3) Is the engine clean ? or somewhat clean ? or dirty ?
4) Regarding valve cover gaskets. Should I use sealant on the corners ? I got a black MB sealant (attached pic)
5) Is it required to use new bolts for valve covers ?

P.S. Can I use this sealant to seal the cam solenoids ? (may be stupid question but I m beginner at replacing parts like that)

Your comments are highly appreciated. :cheers3:
 

Attachments

  • 1.jpg
    1.jpg
    693.6 KB · Views: 10
  • 2.jpg
    2.jpg
    921.6 KB · Views: 10
  • 3.jpg
    3.jpg
    552.4 KB · Views: 9
  • 4.jpg
    4.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 9
  • 5.jpg
    5.jpg
    169.9 KB · Views: 8
  • 6.jpg
    6.jpg
    558.7 KB · Views: 8
1) Not sure about the green mark, but I'd ignore it.
2) Timing chain doesn't appear to have abnormal wear.
3) That engine is cleaner than average, IMO. It looks very good. :)
4) <shout> DO NOT USE ANY SEALANT ON THE VALVE COVER GASKET!!! </shout>
4b) Make sure you replace the copper seals on the valve cover bolts
4c) Torque the valve cover bolts to spec of 9Nm for all bolts you can get a torque wrench on
5) Valve cover bolts can be re-used if the socket heads are not rounded or stripped

6) I would not use that sealant for the cam solenoids. I would use the proper anaerobic sealant. However you could use it, and it may work fine, but next time they have to come off... ugh.


:banana1:
 
1) Not sure about the green mark, but I'd ignore it.
2) Timing chain doesn't appear to have abnormal wear.
3) That engine is cleaner than average, IMO. It looks very good. :)
4) <shout> DO NOT USE ANY SEALANT ON THE VALVE COVER GASKET!!! </shout>
4b) Make sure you replace the copper seals on the valve cover bolts
4c) Torque the valve cover bolts to spec of 9Nm for all bolts you can get a torque wrench on
5) Valve cover bolts can be re-used if the socket heads are not rounded or stripped

6) I would not use that sealant for the cam solenoids. I would use the proper anaerobic sealant. However you could use it, and it may work fine, but next time they have to come off... ugh.


:banana1:

Thanx a lot Dave :cheers1:

I ll get the proper sealant for cam solenoids and return this one. I also will NOT use sealant for valve cover gaskets as you said :)

The reason I asked if my engine is clean enough is that Gerry's engine and valve covers look cleaner :D

P.S. I saw a guy used sealant on my LX470 so that is why I thought I should use it here too. Probably for for lexus it is required.
 
Here is my turn to replace valve cover gaskets which became like a stone.

I am also planning to put metal cam tubes. :sawzall:

I took off the valve cover and found couple of suspicious things.

1) What is this greenish stuff ? (circled)
2) What are those marks on the timing chain mean ? (immediate replacement ?)
3) Is the engine clean ? or somewhat clean ? or dirty ?
4) Regarding valve cover gaskets. Should I use sealant on the corners ? I got a black MB sealant (attached pic)
5) Is it required to use new bolts for valve covers ?

P.S. Can I use this sealant to seal the cam solenoids ? (may be stupid question but I m beginner at replacing parts like that)

Your comments are highly appreciated. :cheers3:

1. Don't worry about that blotch ... likely just oil residue. If you want to get anal, just take a toothbrush or mild wire brush and scrape it off. I don't worry about that stuff. Don't worry, your car doesn't have herpes or a cold sore....

2. Totally normal sprocket wear on the timing chain links. No reason to flip your wig on that one, either.

3. The engine is definitely cleaner than most. But not as clean as mine was :)

4. Do not use sealant / RTV on the valve cover gasket. If the MB manual doesn't specify it, please do not use it.

5. For the cam solenoids, you should ONLY use the orange stuff that MB specifies, which is an anaerobic sealant specifically designed for metal to metal surfaces like cam solenoids and timing covers. It's the same stuff I mentioned in this thread and also in my recent M104 Top-End Rebuild thread, which smells citrus-y and is made from Japanese satsuma oranges and ground-up Koala Bear claws. This is what gives the sealant its bonding power (similar to the white Elmer's Glue, which is partially made from ground-up horses' hooves).

Why did you buy that black stuff anyway? It is not required for this type of job.

Only use MB valve cover gaskets -- do NOT use aftermarket gaskets. You will need a 5mm swivel allen socket for the rear bolts on both sides.

Perhaps a good time to get your valve covers powder coated red or blue or some other cool color. You know .... for more of this ...... :nast:

Cheers,
Gerry
 
1. Don't worry about that blotch ... likely just oil residue. If you want to get anal, just take a toothbrush or mild wire brush and scrape it off. I don't worry about that stuff. Don't worry, your car doesn't have herpes or a cold sore....

When I will be working on cam tubes I ll clean this residue using a tooth brush :agree:


3. The engine is definitely cleaner than most. But not as clean as mine was :)

Yup yours is cleaner :? :cheers1:

4. Do not use sealant / RTV on the valve cover gasket. If the MB manual doesn't specify it, please do not use it.

Well if Dave and Gerry say do NOT use it then I will not 101% use sealant :)

5. For the cam solenoids, you should ONLY use the orange stuff that MB specifies, which is an anaerobic sealant specifically designed for metal to metal surfaces like cam solenoids and timing covers. It's the same stuff I mentioned in this thread and also in my recent M104 Top-End Rebuild thread, which smells citrus-y and is made from Japanese satsuma oranges and ground-up Koala Bear claws. This is what gives the sealant its bonding power (similar to the white Elmer's Glue, which is partially made from ground-up horses' hooves).

Yup, got it, thanx for the help.

Why did you buy that black stuff anyway? It is not required for this type of job.

Guy in parts department decided I need one

Only use MB valve cover gaskets -- do NOT use aftermarket gaskets. You will need a 5mm swivel allen socket for the rear bolts on both sides.
Yes Sir, pic attached :cool:
Perhaps a good time to get your valve covers powder coated red or blue or some other cool color. You know .... for more of this ...... :nast:

I actually though about that, but do not know what is the good place to go ? Body shop ? or ? I believe it should be high temperature coating ?

I m also not sure if they can do the same quality powder coating as the factory.

I will be really upset if after couple of years it is peeling ..

I was thinking about Ferrari red or black ? However silver looks the best. In addition my covers are not that bad now
 

Attachments

  • 7.jpg
    7.jpg
    547 KB · Views: 2
  • 8.jpg
    8.jpg
    840.5 KB · Views: 3
Yes, powder coating is pretty tough so it will be fine. Just do some research via Google and see what comes up in your area. You need to tell them that the valve covers are made from Magnesium. A good powder coater will accommodate that, it has some repercussions because there may be a bit of bubbling of the finish because the metal is magnesium, but generally should be fine.

I think red would be pretty cool.
 
If you're going to powder coat the valve cover... DO NOT have the power coater blast them with anything other than soda or walnut shells. If they use sand or AO it will embed itself into the magnesium and work its way loose during the repeated heating/cooling cycles. Which is the last thing you want near any oil. It's like using grinding paste in the engine.
Don't ask me how I know....

Kind Regards,

Ron
 
If you're going to powder coat the valve cover... DO NOT have the power coater blast them with anything other than soda or walnut shells. If they use sand or AO it will embed itself into the magnesium and work its way loose during the repeated heating/cooling cycles. Which is the last thing you want near any oil. It's like using grinding paste in the engine.
Don't ask me how I know....

Kind Regards,

Ron

Oops, sounds like you learned it by hard ...

There are so much hassle as I expected so I want more and more leave my covers alone .

If I do not find premium shop to paint them I will not touch them.
 
Brabus = Red
Carlsson = Blue

Take your pick.

I think if it was me I'd go with Yellow though.
 
Brabus = Red
Carlsson = Blue

Take your pick.

I think if it was me I'd go with Yellow though.

Hate carlsson and hate blue valve covers, totally tateless.

Yup brabus is red but there is nothing brabus on my car. However red looks good and appropriate .

Yellow ? Never seen yellow to be honest . Should be very unique

I ve noticed we have different covers : yours (94) are not coated and the inside part is different than mine.

Also they are different PNs. What was the point to do these changes ?
 
These guys aren't very good at getting the pattern straight but you get the idea.

[video=youtube;rZGokzth7f4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZGokzth7f4[/video]

Interesting, did not know about this method of painting
 
1. Don't worry about that blotch ... likely just oil residue. If you want to get anal, just take a toothbrush or mild wire brush and scrape it off. I don't worry about that stuff. Don't worry, your car doesn't have herpes or a cold sore....



The green marking indicates the size of the bearing caps.


I would NEVER use a wire brush to scrub off anything inside an assembled engine.
The risk of wires falling in is way too high!
 
The green marking indicates the size of the bearing caps.


I would NEVER use a wire brush to scrub off anything inside an assembled engine.
The risk of wires falling in is way too high!

So this residue is normal ?

Well it does not need to be removed by brush, I touched it with my fingers and it removed easily. In addition I have to take all of them out so that I will have a chance to clean them the way I want .
 
If you remove all of the cam bearing caps, be sure you do so in the correct order of removal and reassembly. If you remove them one at a time (for installing the oiler tubes, as I did above) then you just re-assemble how you removed each one.



The green marking indicates the size of the bearing caps.
In Roma's particular case, I am not 100% convinced of this. Look at the photo below from my engine. You can clearly see the green paint on one of the cam bearing caps. It is a much brighter and clearer green, and in a different position, than the darkish green/black/brown residue on Roma's cam bearing caps. Furthermore Roma's residue is on every cap and in a different configuration (not daubed on by a brush in a fairly consistent manner).

The fact that Roma's residue comes off easily with a fingernail (whereas mine did not, as I cleaned every cam bearing cap) also indicates that it is not green factory cam bearing cap paint.

Here is a photo of MY valvetrain.

proxy.php



And here is Roma's valvetrain.

proxy.php



As I said, I have no problem using a mild wire brush (as I indicated above), carefully cleaning and inspecting afterward, to clean anything that is stubborn and needs cleaning. In the case of a cam bearing cap, I agree that it would best be cleaned while removed from the engine, as I did my own when I documented the job above.

Cheers,
Gerry
 

Who has viewed this thread (Total: 4) View details

Who has watched this thread (Total: 3) View details

Back
Top