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500E Coupe Project
- Thread starter wyzer
- Start date
Dan,
Plan on lots of dough and even more time. A great project for a young enthusiastic guy. I think it depends on how much cash you have to throw at the project and if it’s DIY or contracted out work.
DIY could be a long time maybe 1 to 3 years. Give it to a Pro with an open checkbook probably a year or less. The beautiful 500TE in the UK (his name excapes me at the moment) took about a year.
Minimum $30K Max $50K (just my opinion)
Me I don’t have enough time left to start something like this.
lol
I looked in the USA sales brochures and price lists. ASR was not offered at all, on any chassis, in 1990... at least there is NO mention of it in any literature. Not even for the 126.
In 1991, ASR was offered on multiple vehicles. For the 1991 300CE, it was a $1,975 option.
Well, what are your plans with that one?
Wow, that is strange! In Europe ASR started together with the redone M117 engine. Back in 1987.
As I said -- $25-40,000 all in, plus acquisition costs of all of the cars involved.
That is correct. I am not aware of ASR being offered in ANY US model cars for the 1990 model year.
For US-market vehicles, ASR was FIRST and ONLY offered for the 1991 (last) model year of the W126. Your US literature is showing ASR being offered for the 1991 model year in the C124? I was under the impression that it was only available in the W126 for 1991, and then more broadly available for 1992 in the US.
I was more interested in what *you* expected to spend on this, not what others are estimating it would cost.
Per my previous response.
Sounds like he's easily got the dough to do the build, based on all of his recent acquisitions!
Let's let the man execute his well-defined, six-step plan to create the 500E coupe. He's already well underway, so this thread will be an awesome one to watch to document his progress.
I for one am gonna be all
and 
as this great build unfolds in the coming weeks and months.
Let's let the man execute his well-defined, six-step plan to create the 500E coupe. He's already well underway, so this thread will be an awesome one to watch to document his progress.
I for one am gonna be all
and as this great build unfolds in the coming weeks and months.
@wyzer:
Your way of doing this seems the right one imho! If you would be set on a specific budget, this would end in problems for sure!
There is always something new coming up, the deeper you dig, the more extra money will be needed to do it right...
I look foreward to see your built making progress, hopefully with lots of documentation
Your way of doing this seems the right one imho! If you would be set on a specific budget, this would end in problems for sure!
There is always something new coming up, the deeper you dig, the more extra money will be needed to do it right...
I look foreward to see your built making progress, hopefully with lots of documentation
We should send Wazer to@wyzer:
Your way of doing this seems the right one imho! If you would be set on a specific budget, this would end in problems for sure!
There is always something new coming up, the deeper you dig, the more extra money will be needed to do it right...
I look foreward to see your built making progress, hopefully with lots of documentation
Just bring Tea Bags and biscuit supply and I'll break out the MIG
Pronounced TAE
Yes, the 1991 brochures and price/option card showed ASR offered on multiple vehicles, including the 300CE.
It was FAR more common on engines with electronic injection (HFM or LH), starting in 1992 on all M119's except R129, and 1993 on most M104's. 1991-92 were the transition years when it was technically available, but not yet common, depending on the particular chassis/engine combo.
By the end of the 90's, some form of traction control was standard equipment on every model imported to USA, I believe? Unless maybe it was still an extra-cost option on the C-class. Not sure, I don't follow the C's.
Hi @wyzer, I am following this thread w interest and hope you enjoy the journey as much as the finished product. Out of curiosity - are you after a “strict” interpretation of what a 500CE might have looked like had MB built one, or are you shooting for a more “LA scene” style car / restomod type stuff?
No wrong answers, just genuinely curious. The guys over at Japanese Nostalgic car do a great job with restomodded Celicas / Supras / Skylines / etc. It is a style that we don’t see much of around here, but is fascinating all the same.
In other words, do you prefer the orig Becker 1432, or are you all about the reimagined Blaupunkt Bremen DAB?
No wrong answers, just genuinely curious. The guys over at Japanese Nostalgic car do a great job with restomodded Celicas / Supras / Skylines / etc. It is a style that we don’t see much of around here, but is fascinating all the same.
In other words, do you prefer the orig Becker 1432, or are you all about the reimagined Blaupunkt Bremen DAB?
haha @Jlaa great question, not to sound cheesy but I like both the OG Becker 1432 and the Blaupunkt Bremen DABHi @wyzer, I am following this thread w interest and hope you enjoy the journey as much as the finished product. Out of curiosity - are you after a “strict” interpretation of what a 500CE might have looked like had MB built one, or are you shooting for a more “LA scene” style car / restomod type stuff?
No wrong answers, just genuinely curious. The guys over at Japanese Nostalgic car do a great job with restomodded Celicas / Supras / Skylines / etc. It is a style that we don’t see much of around here, but is fascinating all the same.
In other words, do you prefer the orig Becker 1432, or are you all about the reimagined Blaupunkt Bremen DAB?
There is definitely an increase in appreciating every car scene culture, whether it be street, race, stance, lowrider, hotrod, restomod, 90's, 70's, 2020's, Group B, IMSA, Tokyo Auto Salon, seal beach classics, JCCS, AMG... all mixed together. Shows like Goodwood FOS, youtube channels like Donut media, websites like Speedhunters are all enablers of immersing in it all and respecting it all. Most important is the quality of the builds.
On that note, I think it will be a good mix of the two styles you mentioned.
First step of the project is to refresh funds so selling my Black 500E see here, thats is first on the list and then I will be selling my silver 420E see here. People have been asking about budget for this build but it is hard to estimate costs as there are so many variables. Selling these two cars should get me in a good place to start on this project.
One important fact I need to remember is we are in a pandemic so I need to be smart about my moves forward.
Anyway my buddy with the shop where the build will take place mentioned he has a c124 coupe 1991, 138K miles that he will sell me for good deal, could be a good start. It is in decent shape, it has a facelift front but was originally an early front so thats good if I go AMG CE. No rust and original Cali car. I was hoping to find one with lower miles but this is a good option.
One important fact I need to remember is we are in a pandemic so I need to be smart about my moves forward.
Anyway my buddy with the shop where the build will take place mentioned he has a c124 coupe 1991, 138K miles that he will sell me for good deal, could be a good start. It is in decent shape, it has a facelift front but was originally an early front so thats good if I go AMG CE. No rust and original Cali car. I was hoping to find one with lower miles but this is a good option.
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I could probably find this onlone somewgere but what is the transmission to use?
Thats e
what deviations are you referring to?I guess that it will just keep getting better and better.
Dan
There's only a handful of M119 manual trans conversions, so you won't have much info to leverage from forums. There was a guy who posted info on the custom bellhousing/adapter though. I vaguely recall some ZF 6-speed (from a BMW?) was the convenient candidate, but I never had any interest in rowing gears so I never did any research on it.
If I remember correct it was a 6-speed ZF-gearbox out of a BMW E31 850Ci plus a custommade adapter plate
Yes, I believe the @LiquidIron manual transmission that I showed some photos of from some years ago?If I remember correct it was a 6-speed ZF-gearbox out of a BMW E31 850Ci plus a custommade adapter plate
Geez. As if conversion to a standardshift wasn’t difficult enough, you have to source a donor transmission from a nearly impossible to find source (standard E31?) to begin with.If I remember correct it was a 6-speed ZF-gearbox out of a BMW E31 850Ci plus a custommade adapter plate
I haven't purchased that coupe yet, it is at my friends shop where my Blue 500E is and he said he will sell it to me cheap... Not sure if it is the right one though.
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Hey @gsxr & @gerryvz, not sure if you have seen this but thought you may find it interesting. The guys name is Amon from Budapest and he makes manual conversions for Mercedes, Hs is known in Europe and on Youtube for drifting his Mercedes. I found him through Tavarish the Youtuber's video (attached below). One of his videos shows him drifting his Manual v12 cl600 (also attached). I have sent him an email enquiring about his manual conversion and to see if he has them for m119 or m117.
Not sure what it costs to import a over 25 years old car into the US.
But there is a high mileage black CE320 with AMG-bodykit for sale in Germany for 12400 Euros:
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/...searchId=e2147cc0-0071-37dc-b6a4-006055dc5b95
If the bodykit is an original AMG one, the price would be ok imho, considering what the bodykit alone costs if one comes up for sale.
Please notice that I have no connection with the seller in any way!
But there is a high mileage black CE320 with AMG-bodykit for sale in Germany for 12400 Euros:
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/...searchId=e2147cc0-0071-37dc-b6a4-006055dc5b95
If the bodykit is an original AMG one, the price would be ok imho, considering what the bodykit alone costs if one comes up for sale.
Please notice that I have no connection with the seller in any way!
Haven't been on the forums much of late and so I just stumbled across this potentially epic build post. Hopefully @wyzer comes back and gives us an update.
My 2 cents on what's been discussed so far:
For me, Richard Hammond's explanation of the difference between oversteer and understeer is still my favorite: "Oversteer is best, because you don't see the tree that kills you."
Aiming for a Hammer tribute would not only be expensive but perhaps even inappropriate. A 500CE is a special animal all by itself (an animal grown in a lab). I think the aim should be "what would be the end result if MB decided to do a 500CE?"
Had no idea the conversion would be so complex. Knew the wheelbase on the coupes were shorter, and the car was heavier, but had no idea about the transmission tunnel and just how extensive the work was to shove the SL drivetrain inside.
Also amazed at the prices such a creature can command. Usually such a "lab-grown animal" is discounted in the market, like a kit car or something. The prices are so eye-watering, one wonders why 500CE's aren't cranked out on a regular basis, or that some shop hasn't emerged that specializes in conversions.
My 2 cents on what's been discussed so far:
For me, Richard Hammond's explanation of the difference between oversteer and understeer is still my favorite: "Oversteer is best, because you don't see the tree that kills you."
Aiming for a Hammer tribute would not only be expensive but perhaps even inappropriate. A 500CE is a special animal all by itself (an animal grown in a lab). I think the aim should be "what would be the end result if MB decided to do a 500CE?"
Had no idea the conversion would be so complex. Knew the wheelbase on the coupes were shorter, and the car was heavier, but had no idea about the transmission tunnel and just how extensive the work was to shove the SL drivetrain inside.
Also amazed at the prices such a creature can command. Usually such a "lab-grown animal" is discounted in the market, like a kit car or something. The prices are so eye-watering, one wonders why 500CE's aren't cranked out on a regular basis, or that some shop hasn't emerged that specializes in conversions.
I guess it is because you need either a E500E and butcher with it, or kill a .034 for the rear subframe, engine mount and electronics plus a R129 or W140 for the 5.0 engine, gearbox and plus some other parts...
With all the time you have to put in it, there probably is not much profit to be made:
When a company/shop nees to build and sell it, everything should be new or in top condition in my eyes.
Just think about what a "normal" restoration costs, now add costs for a .034 and R129/W140 plus much additional labor and parts to put everything together and running fine, fine-tune the suspension... To make everything perfect, you probably are way over 100000$!
Plus a "selfmade" car will always be worth less than an original AMG conversion in my opinion!
But without that V8 sound and lowend torque
It appears that @wyzer has gone crickets on us with regard to his 500 coupe project. I guess he felt triggered and bullied here due to the commentary and scepticism about his questionable project.
He has resurfaced over at Banzworld, now doing an equally ambitious-sounding project this time with a six-speed manny tranny 560SEC.
We'll see how it goes. High hopes? Fingers crossed?
The last guys who did "AMG tribute builds" were the famous and late Jim Bauble (aka "cascade" on BW) and also Michael Clare (aka "mclare" on BW). Neither of those projects ended up too well. Here's hoping for a better result from @wyzer.
www.benzworld.org
He has resurfaced over at Banzworld, now doing an equally ambitious-sounding project this time with a six-speed manny tranny 560SEC.
We'll see how it goes. High hopes? Fingers crossed?
The last guys who did "AMG tribute builds" were the famous and late Jim Bauble (aka "cascade" on BW) and also Michael Clare (aka "mclare" on BW). Neither of those projects ended up too well. Here's hoping for a better result from @wyzer.
The ZERORUST AMG build
My sense is that he is among friends and [less technically adept / proficient] company there. So it is suitable. The blind, leading the blind.
I will ask @xfadmin to start a thread on the pending 126board.com to document progress on this "tribute build."
Terry,
I like your idea. Thought about something like this before. To maintain the coupe windshield size/shape and angle, you would need cut the front clip at the base of the 500e's front windshield pillars, not at the roof header. You would want to use the windshield pillars and wiper from the w124 coupe.
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We have a 500CE here in Norway, it is built on a 1988 230CE and I think it was done around 2005. It was for sale in 2015 but didn't sell probably due to a steap asking price. In the end of 2016 it was taken off the road, but AFAIK it is still not sold. It has 313.000 km and the owner told it was due for some maintenance.
I've been on phone with the owner a couple of times, and he told he decided to use as much as possible of the 500E parts in addition to the engine and transmission; suspension, brakes, rear subframe etc... Due to the shorter wheelbase the cardan shaft had to be shortened and the brake lines and SLS lines had to be shortened as well. In case @wyzer reignites his idea and has some questions I could try to reach out to the other guy.
I've been on phone with the owner a couple of times, and he told he decided to use as much as possible of the 500E parts in addition to the engine and transmission; suspension, brakes, rear subframe etc... Due to the shorter wheelbase the cardan shaft had to be shortened and the brake lines and SLS lines had to be shortened as well. In case @wyzer reignites his idea and has some questions I could try to reach out to the other guy.
Hey @gerryvz I'm still here 
and the 560sec project is still going strong. The car has been at the paint shop since Oct 2021 which really slows the the project down, especially my documentation of it. Here are a couple of the most recent photos of the car from when I was out at the body shop to test fit the wheels.
and the 560sec project is still going strong. The car has been at the paint shop since Oct 2021 which really slows the the project down, especially my documentation of it. Here are a couple of the most recent photos of the car from when I was out at the body shop to test fit the wheels.Attachments
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The comment "A lot of show, but very little go, with this one" - In the time since I posted this tread I have restored an AMG 190E, Built a Mazda RX3, Built an E30 BMW Mtech 2 built a Ford Capri, restored a Porsche Boxster and also modified and restored my SL500 and W124 Wagon.
On top of that I sold the Blue 500E from the start of this tread (it went to Poland) and I have purchased an A124 which I am building into a wide body following the technique RYBCC used with the Porsche flares in the rear.
On top of that I sold the Blue 500E from the start of this tread (it went to Poland) and I have purchased an A124 which I am building into a wide body following the technique RYBCC used with the Porsche flares in the rear.
Ok so I actually ended up selling the Blue 500E featured at the start of this tread to a guy who buys Mercedes and sends them over to Poland for restoration and then on sold to German customers. I believe that the Blue 500E will be saved and live to drive the streets again:
www.500eboard.co
So with the 500CE project over I have started an AMG tribute wide body 300CE Cabriolet build and would like to document that here. Maybe I start a new tread. But here are some a pictures of the car when I first purchased it.
SOLD - 1993 500E, Pearl Blue/Gray, minor damage, $8,500 (San Jose, CA) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY
UPDATE: Relisted on Facebook group and price reduced to $5,800 as of 7-Apr-2020. New photos and seller's description uploaded to thread. Also, new descriptors from seller in latest ad: #RunsGreat and #DrivesFine VIN = WDBEA36E8PB905445 Anyone know if this gentleman is a member here...
So with the 500CE project over I have started an AMG tribute wide body 300CE Cabriolet build and would like to document that here. Maybe I start a new tread. But here are some a pictures of the car when I first purchased it.
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OK this triggered me. This forum is a V-8 W124 focused forum. Would recommend a better place to be the W124 forum at Benzworld to document your build.
If you're putting in a V-8 in that A124, then it would be absolutely welcome here. Since it is automotive / MB related, if you REALLY wanted to you could put the build thread in Off-Topic Discussions.
If you're putting in a V-8 in that A124, then it would be absolutely welcome here. Since it is automotive / MB related, if you REALLY wanted to you could put the build thread in Off-Topic Discussions.
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