New owner introduction and restoration project 500E

[Taxi Driver]

Hi, this comes to mind from time to time as I do have the 117 5.6 crank waiting. Although I posess one E60LH
and one E50 motor soon converted + two 119 974 motors, quriosity is allways picking me.

Now what block to use, well I somewhere read, Brabus I Think did one maybe more 6liter starting w a 4.2 block.
Also knowing the MB philosophy they are/were less likely to construct separate lines of casting when they
took the step by modifying the M119 block internally and shorten it also to enabeling the 4.2 shortstroke build.

The 6liter adventure I belive was not in the equation but as it did have, the closed deck i.e so much meat in it
AMG took the advantage to overbore and stroke it to 6liter.

Look at this 4.2 block and I guess it has enough to do a 97.5 max 5liter overbore, if you look closely, that
line beside the bore left by the gasket is 100mm dia, I Think 100mm is possible and as we know,
the problem is finding suitable pistons and building new headgaskets.

Conclution; a 5.6 could be built std 97.5 std gaskets 117 crank this will call for custom rods
made slightly shorter. Roger

 

[036/199]

Tack,Roger!
Would be nice to meet up with you next time I am in Stockholm!

I think I solved the piston matter.
For the head gasket,I would use a stock one with cut outs for cooper rings with the new bore diameter.
Easiest and best solution in this case,IMO...

Will check out this week the 400E I found.

 

[Taxi Driver]

Youre more than welcome, I hope someone anyone really perform a bore and maybe stroke enhancement.

Have you found any capable bore/etching workshop yet? What pistons, are you thinking different rods?

Give the Verdi racing a call they did some 119 rods I remember. Roger

 

[500AMM]

Forced induction is probably the way to go.....if so, you would probably see larger improvements from headers, exhaust ect. due to back pressure created by the forced induction system. I just don't know if it is worth it, especially doing what the 500E does best and that is cruising down the highway. I must be getting old.

Hey there - this is my car!

Do you want to buy it?

 

[036/199]

I will let you know when I go to Sweden,most likely early December.
Have been following your project in your thread!

I work a lot with BMW Alusil engines and have a machine shop that does the process for me.

The pistons I am intending to use are Porsche flat six ones...


The BMW engine I am assembling right now has Verdi rods

 

[Christian_K]

The Porsche Piston Skirts are coated to withstand the alusil bore (silicon crystals)?

 

[Taxi Driver]

OK, good you know of the Verdi quality at least as good as Carillo or the likes. Flat pistons is a good start, about
the head gasket, how about O ringing the block and use oem gasket cut out to suit? Roger

 

[036/199]

Teflon coated side skirts are fine as for Alusil.

Suitable piston rings worries me more...


Rings in the block would work,but it is easier to cut out the head gasket and machine sealing rings.
Proven system used usually in high boost applications.

Verdi rods are quite expensive,but they are VERY high quality.

 

[Taxi Driver]

Yeah, just got remembered what a race/rally motorbuilder here in Sweden said, biggest problem IS the
piston rings, and you cannot go buy a pistonring set from Mahle or KS just like that, Think
they always come w the complete piston and there is the hard to get $$$$€€€€ oem item. Roger

 

[Christian_K]

Yeah, just got remembered what a race/rally motorbuilder here in Sweden said, biggest problem IS the
piston rings, and you cannot go buy a pistonring set from Mahle or KS just like that, Think
they always come w the complete piston and there is the hard to get $$$$€€€€ oem item. Roger

Woessner makes really some very good custom pistons for Alusil blocks including Rings, i've read multiple times. Proven from Porsche and BMW race drivers. If i would go custom pistons, i would go Woessner for sure (They are made in Germany btw ;-) )

 

[Taxi Driver]

Yes Woessner I know, do they make to specification and do they maybe *erzats* pistons like the E60? Roger

 

[Christian_K]

Yes Woessner I know, do they make to specification and do they maybe *erzats* pistons like the E60? Roger

They do whatever pistons you like custom. You provide the specs and measurments and they do it.
Price for custom ones are around 250-300€\piece (including rings and skirt coated for Alusil).

 

[036/199]

Found Alusil piston rings...500€ for 8 sets

 

[biohound1975]

Originally Posted by biohound1975
Forced induction is probably the way to go.....if so, you would probably see larger improvements from headers, exhaust ect. due to back pressure created by the forced induction system. I just don't know if it is worth it, especially doing what the 500E does best and that is cruising down the highway. I must be getting old.


Hey there - this is my car! :razz:

Do you want to buy it?

No, but I was drooling over it.....in fact I was looking for pics of your car based on your comments. Didn't know I accidentally found them. Pretty cool!!! If I had a spare 500E, I would follow in your footsteps. Apologies for the hijack.

 

[036/199]

Got today the temporary wheels...



These are good enough for the moment until I can source a set of RH Topline 18" 3-piece wheels...

 

[Glen]

It's amazing what a difference in appearance changing the wheels makes. Without doing anything else, the car looks 100% better

 

[KarlC]

Got today the temporary wheels...


These are good enough for the moment until I can source a set of RH Topline 18" 3-piece wheels...

A set of RH like these ? .......

http://classifieds.wheel-whores.com/classifieds/ads/view/1258


Not 3 piece but still nice .....

http://classifieds.wheel-whores.com/classifieds/ads/view/1261

 

[036/199]

Yep,wheels like those in the first link!


The wheels in the second link would fit nice on an E39 M5

 

[tomhanson]

Well now I'm curious. Where would you get 500E parts in Finalnd?

 

[036/199]

Well now I'm curious. Where would you get 500E parts in Finalnd?

I get them either from the dealer(VEHO) or straight from Germany.

Is there any way to get the DVD with the W124 manuals outside of the US?

 

[jnes]

Another place where to buy parts for our cars in Finland is company called KL-varaosat.(=KL-spareparts) Company is specialized only for mercedes and bmw spare parts. I've bought lot's of parts from them and mainly prices are lower than dealer. They sell OEM products.

And by the way Raikku, welcome to forum. It's nice to have another member nearby who has a little 500E project going on.

-jnes

 

[036/199]

Another place where to buy parts for our cars in Finland is company called KL-varaosat.(=KL-spareparts) Company is specialized only for mercedes and bmw spare parts. I've bought lot's of parts from them and mainly prices are lower than dealer. They sell OEM products.

And by the way Raikku, welcome to forum. It's nice to have another member nearby who has a little 500E project going on.

-jnes

Thanks for the hint!

Are you in the capitol area?

 

[jnes]

Unfortunately not, I currently live in Oulu and car is at garage in Rovaniemi.

 

[gsxr]

Is there any way to get the DVD with the W124 manuals outside of the US?

The 124 manuals are posted online in multiple places, in PDF format. Like this, for example.

 

[gerryvz]

MB has also posted the W124 manuals online, for free, themselves:

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12264/?requestedDocId=12264

If the above link doesn't work, do the following:

• Go to http://www.startekinfo.com
• Click on the "MB Workshop Resources" link on the left column of the page
• Go to the THIRD page of the results. You will see a link marked "Model 124 Service Library"
• Click on this Model 124 Service Library link. You will be brought to the following page, as shown below.
• Click on Disc 1 or Disc 2 for the appropriate information needed.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Gerry

 

[036/199]

Thanks for the links,guys!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately not, I currently live in Oulu and car is at garage in Rovaniemi.

Any chance you were in the summertime in Kalajoki?

 

[036/199]

Time for an update...

Disassembled, cleaned and measured the block.


Oil filter housing,timing cover and engine mounts were blasted.



Valve covers and lower oil pan painted satin black.



Yesterday a new toy arrived which will keep me a bit busy:

 

[gerryvz]

Looking good.

Do tell more about the 911....does it have a motor?

 

[gsxr]

Oil filter housing,timing cover and engine mounts were blasted.

Looks great! But I would NOT install the original timing cover shown in your photo above. ^^^

The early cover lacks the mounting boss required to use the late-style, automatic belt tensioner. If you install the late-style timing cover, you at least have the option to convert to the late/auto belt tensioner, if desired. This is an easy swap while the engine is torn apart and will cost very little. The early rubber-bushing belt tensioners are a known problem, with short life spans. The spring-loaded auto tensioners have an extremely low failure rate (i.e., almost zero, compared to the manual type). If you use the original timing cover, you will be stuck only using the early/manual tensioner.

Just something to think about...

 

[036/199]

Looking good.

Do tell more about the 911....does it have a motor?

The 911 is a 74 2.7 modified to build a 73 RS re-creation.
It has coil overs,adjustable sway bars and will get probably 930 brakes.

The engine is a 3.6l 964 engine which will be mated either to a 915 or G50 gearbox.

Lightweight road legal track toy.

If there is interest,I can make a thread about that build in the off topic section...


Dave,thanks for your input!
Do you have a part number for the updated chain cover?


Crank journals are a bit scored,so they need a bit work.
Need to get the crank,rods,pistons and rings balanced this week that I can assemble the bottom end.
Want to assemble the engine still this year.

 

[texas993]

I would certainly be interested in following the progress on your RS re-creation.

 

[036/199]

Did a quick test assembly today to figure out where which parts go to:







Also I would be very happy to figure out where these parts go to:



If anyone notices anything wrong attached,let me know please.
Is a bit tricky to figure out where stuff goes to when I did not disassemble it myself plus working on this engine type the first time.

Does anyone have a pic where the oil pressure sensor is attached on cars with oil cooler?


Regarding the RS clone,I will make a thread once I start with it

 

[gsxr]

The bracket in the top/left of your last photo is for the power steering high-pressure hose (at the rear of the pump - see photos below).

The round one in the middle is for the secondary crank position sensor at the timing cover, sort of behind the tensioner pulley.

The L-shaped bracket at the top right belongs at the rear of the p/s pump bracket (for the clamp which secures the knock sensor wires).

The rectangle bracket in the middle, above the round crank sensor bracket, goes on the AC compressor bracket (also for knock sensor wires - see photo).

The large one lower/left is for the SLS hose below the AC compressor, installed after the engine is in the car.

The others looks familiar but I can't think of their location offhand. I think the other two "L" brackets may go on the intake manifold.



These photos may be helpful:

http://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/500E_spare_engine_92/

http://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/500E_spare_engine_93/

 

[036/199]

Thank you very much,Dave!

I really appreciate your help,input and expertise!

 

[gsxr]

You're welcome! I updated my previous post, I recognized another one of those brackets...

 

[036/199]

Yep,found this bracket as I was checking all the pics in the links you posted.

Another bracket is for the dip stick tube of the gearbox.

And one is attached to the intake manifold inhex bolts.

The three bolts on the right are for bolting the heads down.

But the engines in your pics did not have an oil filter housing for external oil cooler.

So I still wonder where the oil pressure sensor is attached if thy have external oil cooling...

 

[gsxr]

The oil pressure sensor should be in the same location either with or without oil cooling. The oil cooler pipes do not interfere with the sensor.

 

[036/199]

Thanks,found it!

Man,what a 3D puzzle...

 

[036/199]

Played a bit with restoring the wood trims...

Removing the old urethane clear coat is time consuming.

Colored the wood with my own mixture which is much darker and more red than the original.

 

[Glen]

Raikku,
That looks really good. How did you remove the factory urethane finish?

 

[036/199]

Raikku,
That looks really good. How did you remove the factory urethane finish?

First I used a 60 grit to sand most of it down,then chemical paint stripper.

Takes a while.

Also have to wait always a few days to wet sand the clear before applying another layer....

I use some urethane clear used for boats.
Should last quite a while...

Glass pearl blasted now also the last pieces like gearbox bracket and intake manifold.

The remaining bolts,nuts,oil lines of engine and gearbox and board tool kit go next week for galvanizing.

Suspension bolts follow once I start with that parts group.

 

[036/199]

Test fit the front brakes(need to paint the calipers and ordered correct screws for caliper and disc mounting):



Some more parts arrived today:



More parts on order(Lemföder kit for rear axle,front LCA,front and rear brake dust shields,various suspension bolts and bushings,..

 

[Christian_K]

I see the high voltage stickers are available again... nice!

 

[036/199]

I see the high voltage stickers are available again... nice!

Yep,but less than 50 left in the german warehouse.
I just ordered today a few more as long as they are available.

And at 1.80€ much cheaper than the ebay repros

 

[johan h]

Hej o välkommen Raikku. Alltid trevligt med fler nordbor här på forumet .

I will be following this interesting thread and i love to se the transformation and to se peaople rescue these lovley cars. The enthusiasts will be thankfull to guys like you bringing the car back to life.

You said you live near Vantaa. I live in Gävle, approx 170 km north of Stockholm and it would be nice to take a trip to your garage and se your progress .

 

[036/199]

You said you live near Vantaa. I live in Gävle, approx 170 km north of Stockholm and it would be nice to take a trip to your garage and se your progress .

My garage is in Helsinki,would be a nice road trip if you come over
Always welcome over here!

Man,your 036 did look rough,nice to see it was rescued!

 

[036/199]

Had a bit time to work on the bucket...


One of the things that bothered me was the black grille.
But after using paint stripper and polishing it looks like new.
Interesting it got a W140 part number...


Some more parts arrived like the W210 dust shields for the bigger rear discs,a new star for the bonnet,500E sign for the trunk and various bolts and clamps for brakes and body work:



While taking the driver seat apart to replace the lower part,I also figured why the headrest was not moving:



AMG back box:





The leather also got some cleaning and care:

 

[gsxr]

Wow! Where did you score that AMG muffler?

 

[Aki]

Good job Raikku! That´s Juho´s old car?
Why did you buy 500E badge? Car is facelifted and look like E500.

 

[Maui]

Wow! Where did you score that AMG muffler?

I would like to know as well? Are there more available?