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OWNER a777fan (E420)
- Thread starter a777fan
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Complete brake re-fresh now complete!
As mentioned previously, this job took me longer than I was expecting thanks to my inexperience with caliper re-building. My mis-steps were corrected by sourcing an additional pair of front calipers from Steve Geyer, and this wonderful stuff:
Don’t be dissuaded by the label, I can attest that amateur use is also supported by this product.
I used denatured alcohol to clean up the grody-ness of the existing caliper set. I bought a 2 gallon bucket, filled it up with the denatured alcohol, stripped the calipers all down (removing hoses, bleeder valves, pistons, o-rings) and then gave em the dunk for a day or two. I still needed to vigorously attack each with a brass brush, and the results wern’t perfect, but not bad for 26 year old brake components:
Before:
After:
Top tip: As @TerryA points out above, I found that each of the pistons had a specific orientation that they ‘liked’ within each of the bores. I test fit each before inserting the piston seal. I’d drop the piston into the bore, and rotate it slowly until it easily ‘slipped’ fully into the bore. I’d then use a paint pen to mark the orientation:
A flat file also came in handy as a tool to evenly press the pistons home once the seal was installed. You can see me using one in this photo along with a ball joint puller cup to fully seat the exterior piston seal. Without that cup, I’m not sure how you’d be able to press that external seal on fully. Kind of a pain!
Anyway, once you get the hang of it, its pretty straightforward. Rinse and repeat right?
Left front done:
Right front done:
For the rears, I went with OE rebuilds. For future reference, here is what you get in the kit:
You do NOT get a set of the small ‘heat sheilds’ that are pressed into each of the piston bores. Those apparently only come in the re-build kit.
I also thought this was a neat touch, some sort of final ‘check’ receipt from the rebuilder (in the UK according to the box)
Thanks Kate!
Anyway, left rear and right rear complete:
I also bought a new reservior and seals. Note the new is slightly different than the old:
Fits fine though.
Also, check out how one of the original seals was deteriorating and had left goo in one of the bores:
It was literally all goo.
New tank installed:
So minty!
Re-filled with motul rbf 660, re-bled, and took it for a drive. Brakes are still bedding in, but all good so far. Got up to highway speeds on my trip, then checked each wheel and caliper temp with an IR gun when I got back and all appears well. V. Happy to have this part of Üter refreshed!
As mentioned previously, this job took me longer than I was expecting thanks to my inexperience with caliper re-building. My mis-steps were corrected by sourcing an additional pair of front calipers from Steve Geyer, and this wonderful stuff:
Don’t be dissuaded by the label, I can attest that amateur use is also supported by this product.
I used denatured alcohol to clean up the grody-ness of the existing caliper set. I bought a 2 gallon bucket, filled it up with the denatured alcohol, stripped the calipers all down (removing hoses, bleeder valves, pistons, o-rings) and then gave em the dunk for a day or two. I still needed to vigorously attack each with a brass brush, and the results wern’t perfect, but not bad for 26 year old brake components:
Before:
After:
Top tip: As @TerryA points out above, I found that each of the pistons had a specific orientation that they ‘liked’ within each of the bores. I test fit each before inserting the piston seal. I’d drop the piston into the bore, and rotate it slowly until it easily ‘slipped’ fully into the bore. I’d then use a paint pen to mark the orientation:
A flat file also came in handy as a tool to evenly press the pistons home once the seal was installed. You can see me using one in this photo along with a ball joint puller cup to fully seat the exterior piston seal. Without that cup, I’m not sure how you’d be able to press that external seal on fully. Kind of a pain!
Anyway, once you get the hang of it, its pretty straightforward. Rinse and repeat right?
Left front done:
Right front done:
For the rears, I went with OE rebuilds. For future reference, here is what you get in the kit:
You do NOT get a set of the small ‘heat sheilds’ that are pressed into each of the piston bores. Those apparently only come in the re-build kit.
I also thought this was a neat touch, some sort of final ‘check’ receipt from the rebuilder (in the UK according to the box)
Thanks Kate!
Anyway, left rear and right rear complete:
I also bought a new reservior and seals. Note the new is slightly different than the old:
Fits fine though.
Also, check out how one of the original seals was deteriorating and had left goo in one of the bores:
It was literally all goo.
New tank installed:
So minty!
Re-filled with motul rbf 660, re-bled, and took it for a drive. Brakes are still bedding in, but all good so far. Got up to highway speeds on my trip, then checked each wheel and caliper temp with an IR gun when I got back and all appears well. V. Happy to have this part of Üter refreshed!
Last edited:
Any squeal with the Porterfields? About to buy some for the rear of my car.
none at all thus far!
I mentioned that piston orientation back in post #879. I found that they went back in easier if replaced in same position as they were when they came out.
Note the front caliper pistons don't require a specific position/orientation, but as described above, may be happier in 1 location.
The REAR caliper pistons DO require a specific position/orientation, and must be rotated to that position after installation. The OE rebuilds should have been set correctly out of the box, but I've seen aftermarket rebuilds (or, recent powder-coated calipers) that need the pistons rotated where they belong.
The REAR caliper pistons DO require a specific position/orientation, and must be rotated to that position after installation. The OE rebuilds should have been set correctly out of the box, but I've seen aftermarket rebuilds (or, recent powder-coated calipers) that need the pistons rotated where they belong.
Yep! Absolutely. It will be pretty obvious if you dont have the rear pistons oriented correctly. You won’t be able to install the small heat shields that get pressed into the pistons and have a small lip that prevents the pads from falling out the back of the caliper.
In this horribly edited iPhone photo of a caliper (pre-cleaned) i’ve placed a blue line over the part of the piston that is visible through the small heat shield. The orange line is over the part of the heat shield that slots into the piston where its been notched to accept the heat shield. You’ll see that as @gsxr states, the piston is ‘clocked’ at a specific angle so everything is in proper alignment and that little tab at the back of the heat shield is in the right spot to ‘catch’ the brake pad and stop it from being able to fall out of the backside of the caliper.
The ate rebuild kit instructions indicate there is a special tool to get that piston alignment correct, but since I went with OE rebuilds as @gsxr states, it was already done for me.
Absolutely @TerryA, credit where its due!!!I mentioned that piston orientation back in post #879. I found that they went back in easier if replaced in same position as they were when they came out.
Where did you get your Porterfields @a777fan ? I've only seen them on Pelican Parts which is fine but not my preferred parts vendor for cost and general logistics - seems like it always takes way longer than others.
Right from the source!
Home
Porterfield Brakes. Your one-stop shop for racing and performance brakes and parts. Shop our large inventory of Motorsports auto parts today.
porterfield-brakes.com
I get mine from LPI Racing, ~15% off list price. Their website is pretty bad though. You MUST use "Advanced Search", select Brakes, then Porterfield, and enter the pad numer (i.e., 603). The search box is useless. Free shipping over $150:
These links are for the Silver Arrow pads (334mm front, 300mm rear):
These links are for the Silver Arrow pads (334mm front, 300mm rear):
Porterfield R4-S Carbon Kevlar Perf Street Pad AP 847 R4-S
www.lpiracing.com
Porterfield R4-S Carbon Kevlar Perf Street Pad AP 603 R4-S
www.lpiracing.com
I’ve bought mine direct from Porterfield in Costa Mesa, CA. In fact I bought them from Mr. Porterfield Sr. in person but it’s been a long time. I believe at the time they only sold brake components.Right from the source!
Home
Porterfield Brakes. Your one-stop shop for racing and performance brakes and parts. Shop our large inventory of Motorsports auto parts today.
good ‘ole dave with the save!I get mine from LPI Racing, ~15% off list price. Their website is pretty bad though. You MUST use "Advanced Search", select Brakes, then Porterfield, and enter the pad numer (i.e., 603). The search box is useless. Free shipping over $150:
These links are for the Silver Arrow pads (334mm front, 300mm rear):
Porterfield R4-S Carbon Kevlar Perf Street Pad AP 847 R4-S
www.lpiracing.com
Porterfield R4-S Carbon Kevlar Perf Street Pad AP 603 R4-S
www.lpiracing.com
It was a big day for Üter! New shoes and an alignment by Steve Geyer at Lynnwood MB!
Steve got it all dialed in with the Sportline specs:
The wheels are the ‘un-obtainium’ (unless your name is @kiev) 16x7” sportline wheel for the non-500 124. They aren’t reps, they are the real deal. I know some of you have these as well, but they have been, by far, the hardest part on this build to find, so I’m actually a little proud of them. I wrapped them in 205/55ZR-16 Michelin Pilot Sport AS4’s. And i think it looks pretty fantastic.
Its the perfect snobby ‘if you know you know’ look that I was going for
Also had a mileage milestone on the way home
Steve got it all dialed in with the Sportline specs:
The wheels are the ‘un-obtainium’ (unless your name is @kiev
) 16x7” sportline wheel for the non-500 124. They aren’t reps, they are the real deal. I know some of you have these as well, but they have been, by far, the hardest part on this build to find, so I’m actually a little proud of them. I wrapped them in 205/55ZR-16 Michelin Pilot Sport AS4’s. And i think it looks pretty fantastic. Its the perfect snobby ‘if you know you know’ look that I was going for
Also had a mileage milestone on the way home
Love that Steve is using the doohickey with the five fingers to slot into the wheels to measure toe/caster/camber! Lots of times places just use the “clamp against the tire” thingy. Five Finger Doohickey for the win!It was a big day for Üter! New shoes and an alignment by Steve Geyer at Lynnwood MB!
View attachment 147735
Steve got it all dialed in with the Sportline specs:
View attachment 147736
View attachment 147737
The wheels are the ‘un-obtainium’ (unless your name is @kiev
View attachment 147738
Its the perfect snobby ‘if you know you know’ look that I was going for
Also had a mileage milestone on the way home
View attachment 147739
I know right? Like, they built these holes into the GD wheels. THANK YOU FOR USING THEM!
Jon must have a cylinder based system. V12s get the garage, V8s get the driveway and any cylinder count below that is barred from the premises
Steve’s your guy!Next time you are at MB dealership, ask how many techs are younger than these cars
I need to take my car to Steve for alignment… dont think the folks at Clark alignment did it right.
More ipotato ‘glamour’ shots on the way to coffee this AM.
A photographer… I am not …
Rolling 145k meant it was time for an oil and filter change. I also took the opportunity to swap out the oil pan which I had managed to mangle on only my 1st or 2nd oil change. Tis a shame, as it still had a Parts sticker on it when I picked Üter up back in 2017.
Anyway…
The filthy belly pan that used to be clean.
And clean:
Still nice and clean inside!
New oil pan installed and cinched down:
Refilled, reinstalled belly pan and took it for a drive.
Observation: The most satisfying part of the new combi switch is definetely the wiper speed control. Soooo soo snicky. Especially in comparison to the old faded switch.
A photographer… I am not …
Rolling 145k meant it was time for an oil and filter change. I also took the opportunity to swap out the oil pan which I had managed to mangle on only my 1st or 2nd oil change. Tis a shame, as it still had a Parts sticker on it when I picked Üter up back in 2017.
Anyway…
The filthy belly pan that used to be clean.
And clean:
Still nice and clean inside!
New oil pan installed and cinched down:
Refilled, reinstalled belly pan and took it for a drive.
Observation: The most satisfying part of the new combi switch is definetely the wiper speed control. Soooo soo snicky. Especially in comparison to the old faded switch.
@a777fan, That new oil pan looks slick.More ipotato ‘glamour’ shots on the way to coffee this AM.
View attachment 147805
View attachment 147806
A photographer… I am not …
Rolling 145k meant it was time for an oil and filter change. I also took the opportunity to swap out the oil pan which I had managed to mangle on only my 1st or 2nd oil change. Tis a shame, as it still had a Parts sticker on it when I picked Üter up back in 2017.
Anyway…
View attachment 147807
The filthy belly pan that used to be clean.
View attachment 147808
And clean:
View attachment 147809
Still nice and clean inside!
View attachment 147810
New oil pan installed and cinched down:
View attachment 147811
Refilled, reinstalled belly pan and took it for a drive.
Observation: The most satisfying part of the new combi switch is definetely the wiper speed control. Soooo soo snicky. Especially in comparison to the old faded switch.
Was the old pan leaking? Describe the disastrous deed
that mangled your oil pan. Inquirin minds want to know.
PS: Wouldn’t any car description with potato in it belong to gsxr? He has all the potatoes
Yep! I managed to completely mis-read the torque spec and didn’t think twice about what I was doing until it was too late. The sealing surface for the copper crush washer was no longer flat. More convex in shape. :/@a777fan, That new oil pan looks slick.
Was the old pan leaking? Describe the disastrous deed
PS: Wouldn’t any car description with potato in it belong to gsxr? He has all the potatoes
I’ve never used anything but a box end wrench on about 10 oil and filter changes. You will never over torque the bolt with a wrench unless your the “HULK”
lol
Your car looks so fine, very nice work!
Thank you!
Its a pretty solid 15 footer at this point. Its unfortunate, as the 744 is slowly failing, and at some point will need attention. I have a feeling that it was a non-garage car for most of its California life.
Thanks maw…
Indeed, it did have some clearcoat crazing in areas when I bought it 5 years ago. Unfortunately, given my limited garage space, its indoor life hasn’t changed drastically from what I think it was experiencing in cali. From my perspective a re-paint has (at least) two major obstacles:
1) locating a reputable shop which I know I’ll be able to trust and get good value for the dollar. Most inquires I have made of individuals in the area AND in a position to be in ‘the know’ have re-enforced my un educated fears that even good shops can deliver an inconsistent product.
2) expanding my garage space or downsizing the fleet. I’m not going to lay out the coin to get Üter in tip top shape and then just continue to park him outside. :/ both of those options feel like they are still a long way off. Lol.
Having just replaced the 15”s that had relatively new rubber on them with the 16”, i took the opportunity to swap one of them in as my spare, and retire the old guard that had been living in the trunk.
Check out this dinosaur!
Good ole Michelin ‘Energy MXV4’. I think they made this tire for a number of years, only ‘recently’ retiring it within the last decade or so…
This example wasn’t OG to the car... (data card indicates Pirellis were fitted), and had ‘98 (?) date codes. Also: made in germany! Thank you old spare… I’m glad we never had to meet.
Check out this dinosaur!
Good ole Michelin ‘Energy MXV4’. I think they made this tire for a number of years, only ‘recently’ retiring it within the last decade or so…
This example wasn’t OG to the car... (data card indicates Pirellis were fitted), and had ‘98 (?) date codes. Also: made in germany! Thank you old spare… I’m glad we never had to meet.
Attachments
Despite the on-again, off-again rain (June in seattle… 
) I decided it would be a good car wash day. Üter hadn’t had a good wash since before last fall, so it took most of the day. Even took the side marker lights out to ‘clean the green’ that had accumulated at the edges on both sides. Left side photos for reference..
After:
You have to pop the black gasket out to really get it clean. Its a little fiddly, but not too bad to get out.
Back to looking a little better:
Ever since the 16” went on, the standard lug bolts have been ‘hiding’ in the wheel bolt wells. I had sourced a set of ‘xtendo’-bolts from @captruff for the 17” monoblocks I ran for a couple seasons at my old ride height, and wouldn’t ya know, they also work perfect on these 16’s!
I had to clean em up first though. I don’t have a wire wheel/bench grinder, so I was stuck with some fine sand paper, a little kroil for lube, and a final clean up with some brakleen and a brass brush. Before; One off to the right has been put through the process already.
After the elbow grease:
Not too shabby!
Before installation for reference:
After:
Its subtle, but it feels more proper.
Took a short drive after up through the Magnolia neighborhood in Seattle, and grabbed a couple pics:
) I decided it would be a good car wash day. Üter hadn’t had a good wash since before last fall, so it took most of the day. Even took the side marker lights out to ‘clean the green’ that had accumulated at the edges on both sides. Left side photos for reference..After:
You have to pop the black gasket out to really get it clean. Its a little fiddly, but not too bad to get out.
Back to looking a little better:
Ever since the 16” went on, the standard lug bolts have been ‘hiding’ in the wheel bolt wells. I had sourced a set of ‘xtendo’-bolts from @captruff for the 17” monoblocks I ran for a couple seasons at my old ride height, and wouldn’t ya know, they also work perfect on these 16’s!
I had to clean em up first though. I don’t have a wire wheel/bench grinder, so I was stuck with some fine sand paper, a little kroil for lube, and a final clean up with some brakleen and a brass brush. Before; One off to the right has been put through the process already.
After the elbow grease:
Not too shabby!
Before installation for reference:
After:
Its subtle, but it feels more proper.
Took a short drive after up through the Magnolia neighborhood in Seattle, and grabbed a couple pics:
Was invited down to a friends cabin in Ocean Shores for the weekend. Üter’s been performing well enough that we took him with us (or the other way around I guess…)
He did great, even averaging 23mpg on the way back (70-80mph) the whole way. Its the first trip he’s been on in a loooooooong time.
The sportline setup is excellent. Just the right level of damping to still be comfortable, but also way more stable than stock. I do realize a direct back to back comparison is impossible given the original setup had ~145k on it, but its sooo much nicer now.
He did great, even averaging 23mpg on the way back (70-80mph) the whole way. Its the first trip he’s been on in a loooooooong time.
The sportline setup is excellent. Just the right level of damping to still be comfortable, but also way more stable than stock. I do realize a direct back to back comparison is impossible given the original setup had ~145k on it, but its sooo much nicer now.
Üter is 100 pct possessed.
Its our first properly warm day up here in the PNW (likely to max out around 90 deg F), and I needed to head up to Everett to visit an uhpolstery shop, which is about a 50mi drive round trip. Üters been performing flawlessly for over 1000 miles or so now, so i jumped in and hit the road.
Things were just fine until about 90% of the way there. I was still on the freeway, and things seemed fine, but it was as if the go pedal wasn’t as peppy as it should have been. I made it to my offramp and thats when it was very obvious it was mis-firing. I’d say it was like running on 4 cylinders. I made it to my destination, and in the process of making a u-turn to park, it died. Luckily it re-started. Smoky exhaust however, and an occasional tailpipe mis-fire. I decided to attemp to limp it home. To be clear, the engine was 100pct hot when this occurred, so i’m doubtful its the moisture cap issue.
Once back on the freeway, he had no problems getting up to speed. When I took my exit about 20 miles later, he was as happy as could be. Like nothing ever happened.
I know this is going to be something else that will never pop up again, or be VERY hard to replicate. It will just be one more little niggle in the back of my mind on how much I’m comfortable trusting him on the open road. It sucks.
Its our first properly warm day up here in the PNW (likely to max out around 90 deg F), and I needed to head up to Everett to visit an uhpolstery shop, which is about a 50mi drive round trip. Üters been performing flawlessly for over 1000 miles or so now, so i jumped in and hit the road.
Things were just fine until about 90% of the way there. I was still on the freeway, and things seemed fine, but it was as if the go pedal wasn’t as peppy as it should have been. I made it to my offramp and thats when it was very obvious it was mis-firing. I’d say it was like running on 4 cylinders. I made it to my destination, and in the process of making a u-turn to park, it died. Luckily it re-started. Smoky exhaust however, and an occasional tailpipe mis-fire. I decided to attemp to limp it home. To be clear, the engine was 100pct hot when this occurred, so i’m doubtful its the moisture cap issue.
Once back on the freeway, he had no problems getting up to speed. When I took my exit about 20 miles later, he was as happy as could be. Like nothing ever happened.
I know this is going to be something else that will never pop up again, or be VERY hard to replicate. It will just be one more little niggle in the back of my mind on how much I’m comfortable trusting him on the open road. It sucks.
Jon, after diagnosing a misfire via live data back in post #797... what action was taken with the secondary ignition system? How old are the caps/rotors, what brand, any signs of carbon tracking? It definitely sounds like a misfire issue but it may not be a liquid issue. Oh, and have you slotted the caps with 18 total slots?
Next step would be getting the "driving" cable so you can drive the car with SDS connected, and view voltages on each cylinder when the misfire occurs again. This will at least narrow it down to 1 cap and maybe 1 or 2 specific cylinders.
Next step would be getting the "driving" cable so you can drive the car with SDS connected, and view voltages on each cylinder when the misfire occurs again. This will at least narrow it down to 1 cap and maybe 1 or 2 specific cylinders.
Wow it’s been a hot minute.
Funnily enough, üters been great since that odd moment in June. No idea what happened there. Bad gas? I had filled up at a dodgy station around that time.
Anyhoo. He’s been getting me back and forth to work just fine. I’m lucky enough to have a couple ‘full throttle’ road sections on my commute, so i’ve been able to keep the cobwebs out.
Rolled these numbers the other day.
Funnily enough, üters been great since that odd moment in June. No idea what happened there. Bad gas? I had filled up at a dodgy station around that time.
Anyhoo. He’s been getting me back and forth to work just fine. I’m lucky enough to have a couple ‘full throttle’ road sections on my commute, so i’ve been able to keep the cobwebs out.
Rolled these numbers the other day.
Not sure! Thats about where it seems to be happy with my driving style and surrounding local geography and air density.
Not doing anything special, promise!
I’ve only ever gotten one fillup thats come close to that for whatever reason. I think it was the second fuel up i ever did with the car, on the way home from cali. On the nice ‘flat’ stretch of i-5 between the bay area and redding.
I've logged something like >100kmi across three different daily-driver 034's (all 94-95 variants). I track every single tank of fuel and MPG. I'd have to look up exact numbers but typical city-only should be high teens (18-20), and best-case freeway will be 24-25mpg. Overall average should be low 20's. It is extremely difficult, but possible, to get above 25mpg... usually need to spend many hours at <40mph/60kph on level ground.
I normally drive into the reserve light so my data is over a full tank, no short 100-mile freeway trips with an egg taped to the gas pedal to hypermile great numbers. The latter method might also generate upper 20's. No way you'll get a legit 30mpg without coasting down a mountain with the engine off. Even W124 diesels have a hard time getting 30mpg on today's low-BTU diesel fuel!
That said, it's also difficult to get below ~18mpg without a serious lead foot in the city. If a 4.2L is getting anywhere near 15-16mpg, either the odometer is stopping intermittently, or something is seriously wrong... dragging brakes, bad MAF or O2 messing up fuel mixture, etc etc. My money is on the odo or brakes though.
I normally drive into the reserve light so my data is over a full tank, no short 100-mile freeway trips with an egg taped to the gas pedal to hypermile great numbers. The latter method might also generate upper 20's. No way you'll get a legit 30mpg without coasting down a mountain with the engine off. Even W124 diesels have a hard time getting 30mpg on today's low-BTU diesel fuel!
That said, it's also difficult to get below ~18mpg without a serious lead foot in the city. If a 4.2L is getting anywhere near 15-16mpg, either the odometer is stopping intermittently, or something is seriously wrong... dragging brakes, bad MAF or O2 messing up fuel mixture, etc etc. My money is on the odo or brakes though.
I quit trying to check the mileage my 500E. It runs great but the mileage has never been great. When I first bought it I tried checking the mileage. I think I hit about 18 mpg once driving down to Palm Springs. It’s a lot of level or down hill driving but you lose it on the return trip.
As far as I’m concerned, as long as it runs good w/ no misfire just fill it up, shut up and drive it.
As far as I’m concerned, as long as it runs good w/ no misfire just fill it up, shut up and drive it.
My 036's have averaged 16-18 in town, and a best of 20-22 on a long freeway trip (400+ miles per tank). This is with stock wheels/tires and "good" fuel... economy can vary with ethanol blends. High teens is typical/normal with mixed driving.
