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OWNER DJ RaMiN (E420)
- Thread starter DJ RaMiN
- Start date
So I had an "oh no" moment this morning! 
Took the car out to a cars and coffee event about 40 mins drive. Everything was great, got there and parked the car. Stayed about an hour. When it was time to leave, got out of the parking lot and right when I reached the first stop on the street, the car just revs and wouldn't move forward. Like transmission wouldn't engage. Slowly slowly moved it to the side of the street.
Observations:
Restarted the car, put it in D and felt like it engaged and let go again. Same with 3. It almost feels like it goes into gear, because you feel the slight movement.
Put it in 2 and B it engages and car moves.
Reverse also works fine.
Decided to disconnect the kick down switch to see if that changes anything, and it didn't.
Checked the fluid (although car wasn't hot) it was an inch above max mark. Can't tell if low or not.
Anyways, decided to call a tow truck and bring it home.
Any ideas? B2 piston failure? What could it be?
Took the car out to a cars and coffee event about 40 mins drive. Everything was great, got there and parked the car. Stayed about an hour. When it was time to leave, got out of the parking lot and right when I reached the first stop on the street, the car just revs and wouldn't move forward. Like transmission wouldn't engage. Slowly slowly moved it to the side of the street.
Observations:
Restarted the car, put it in D and felt like it engaged and let go again. Same with 3. It almost feels like it goes into gear, because you feel the slight movement.
Put it in 2 and B it engages and car moves.
Reverse also works fine.
Decided to disconnect the kick down switch to see if that changes anything, and it didn't.
Checked the fluid (although car wasn't hot) it was an inch above max mark. Can't tell if low or not.
Anyways, decided to call a tow truck and bring it home.
Any ideas? B2 piston failure? What could it be?
I didn't drive it to see if it can upshift. I just put it in B and 2 and noticed it will go forward and it wouldn't just rev like 3 and D. But I could try that around the neighborhood and see what happens.Will it drive normally in B and 2? If so, what happens when you try to let it upshift? Had you made any changes to the transmission (service, etc) in the last few hundred or few thousand miles?
I did transmission service (fluid, filter and pan gasket) about 4k miles ago.
@DJ RaMiN,
A long time ago my wife had a similar experience in our 84-500SL the car wouldn’t move in any gear. She was exiting the 91 Frwy and got stuck in the middle of the off-ramp.
She phoned me very upset to say the least telling me the transmission broke. Anyway after having the car towed home I discovered the problem.
Nothing wrong with the transmission. It turned out to be a deteriorated plastic ball in the throttle assembly that wouldn’t allow the throttle to open. You could floor the gas pedal and nothing happened.
Also had a similar experience in our 86-300E.
30 year old plastic parts crumble.
Check it out.
Good Luck
A long time ago my wife had a similar experience in our 84-500SL the car wouldn’t move in any gear. She was exiting the 91 Frwy and got stuck in the middle of the off-ramp.
She phoned me very upset to say the least telling me the transmission broke. Anyway after having the car towed home I discovered the problem.
Nothing wrong with the transmission. It turned out to be a deteriorated plastic ball in the throttle assembly that wouldn’t allow the throttle to open. You could floor the gas pedal and nothing happened.
Also had a similar experience in our 86-300E.
30 year old plastic parts crumble.
Check it out.
Good Luck
Alright, I took her out for a drive in our neighborhood and it does upshift from B and 2! Putting it in D while going 25 mph and it just normal driving and when I slightly rev it, it will speed up with no problems. But when I get to a stop, same thing happens, so I have to put it in B or 2 and start over.
Hrmmm. That is strange!
Any chance you have a spare valve body to swap in for testing? If not, you likely have two options. 1 - remove your VB and open each of the side plates to inspect for any damaged springs or other visible failures inside the VB. Or, B... shell out for a Sun Valley reman transmission. For test purposes, even a SGS VB (from a 140 chassis) would suffice. Gotta be some at your Pick+Pull.
It's REALLY difficult to diagnose internal transmission problems. Having a spare VB helps a lot, if you have previously installed/tested to confirm it's good - if there's no change with the spare VB, the problem is likely internal with the bands or clutches.
How many miles on it, btw? Original transmission? Fluid clean & red?
Any chance you have a spare valve body to swap in for testing? If not, you likely have two options. 1 - remove your VB and open each of the side plates to inspect for any damaged springs or other visible failures inside the VB. Or, B... shell out for a Sun Valley reman transmission. For test purposes, even a SGS VB (from a 140 chassis) would suffice. Gotta be some at your Pick+Pull.
It's REALLY difficult to diagnose internal transmission problems. Having a spare VB helps a lot, if you have previously installed/tested to confirm it's good - if there's no change with the spare VB, the problem is likely internal with the bands or clutches.
How many miles on it, btw? Original transmission? Fluid clean & red?
Thanks for your input, sir!Hrmmm. That is strange!
Any chance you have a spare valve body to swap in for testing? If not, you likely have two options. 1 - remove your VB and open each of the side plates to inspect for any damaged springs or other visible failures inside the VB. Or, B... shell out for a Sun Valley reman transmission. For test purposes, even a SGS VB (from a 140 chassis) would suffice. Gotta be some at your Pick+Pull.
It's REALLY difficult to diagnose internal transmission problems. Having a spare VB helps a lot, if you have previously installed/tested to confirm it's good - if there's no change with the spare VB, the problem is likely internal with the bands or clutches.
How many miles on it, btw? Original transmission? Fluid clean & red?
Unfortunately, I don't have a spare VB, I'll have to look into local junkyards.
For now, I can try to remove the VB and see what's up.
Car has about 99k miles. I believe the transmission is original. Fluid looks clean as well. Do these AT's go out this early? My 190E's 722.4 is still going strong at 210k miles!
Thanks @TerryA
I inspected that part and it's ok. My problem is probably internal as Dave suggested.
I have a good functioning 500e valve body that I took out when replacing with a 400e FGS body a couple years ago. Can send it your way if desired.Thanks for your input, sir!
Unfortunately, I don't have a spare VB, I'll have to look into local junkyards.
For now, I can try to remove the VB and see what's up.
Car has about 99k miles. I believe the transmission is original. Fluid looks clean as well. Do these AT's go out this early? My 190E's 722.4 is still going strong at 210k miles!
99kmi is low miles. Usually they leak and need an external reseal every 100-150kmi or so., but otherwise the boxes should last 200-300kmi if serviced regularly (fluid & filter every 30kmi, or 15kmi with severe service). There can be freak failures at lower miles but it's not common. The typical issue is worn reverse clutches despite all other gears working normally.
That would be great, thank you for your offer, I will let you know!
There is also a 95 E420 at my local junkyard!
I see there is a DIY for the valve body overhaul, but no mention of parts, part numbers. I wonder if all parts for overhaul are still available, if I go that route.
That diagram should be accurate. When cold and with the engine running, the level should be roughly a half-inch below MIN. Low fluid level should not cause the problem you have though...
Thank you, sir!That diagram should be accurate. When cold and with the engine running, the level should be roughly a half-inch below MIN. Low fluid level should not cause the problem you have though...
The shop I go to gets really busy, sometimes you have to wait 2-3 weeks for alignment appointment.
Two things!
1. Checked ATF level when cold with engine running and it was on Max mark! So is it overfilled???
2. Took the car for another ride around the neighborhood. This time the car went into D in the driveway and did a few back and forth and it was fine. Out of the driveway and in the street everything was fine. Got to the first stop in D and it doesn't want to go forward again. Put it in 2 and drove off and back to D while moving. Same thing happened at the next stop. And same at the third stop. Forth stop and everything is fine! Car was normal in D even at stops and shifted smoothly! Got home, turned if off. Waited 5 mins, started again and dove around the neighborhood for another 10 mins. All good, no issues!
Observations:
Strange thing, it felt like if at a stop, I let go of brake and let the car roll a little (while in D) then accelerate, the car would be fine. But if I press on gas pedal right after letting go of brake pedal without letting it roll, the problem comes back. (I might be delusional)
Could this be speed sensor related? Hmmm
I'll check if I got any codes.
1. Checked ATF level when cold with engine running and it was on Max mark! So is it overfilled???
2. Took the car for another ride around the neighborhood. This time the car went into D in the driveway and did a few back and forth and it was fine. Out of the driveway and in the street everything was fine. Got to the first stop in D and it doesn't want to go forward again. Put it in 2 and drove off and back to D while moving. Same thing happened at the next stop. And same at the third stop. Forth stop and everything is fine! Car was normal in D even at stops and shifted smoothly! Got home, turned if off. Waited 5 mins, started again and dove around the neighborhood for another 10 mins. All good, no issues!
Observations:
Strange thing, it felt like if at a stop, I let go of brake and let the car roll a little (while in D) then accelerate, the car would be fine. But if I press on gas pedal right after letting go of brake pedal without letting it roll, the problem comes back. (I might be delusional)
Could this be speed sensor related? Hmmm
I'll check if I got any codes.
Hmmm. The dipstick can be very difficult to read, it may take repeated measurements. It's unlikely to be overfilled, but if you confirm it's at MAX when cold, it should go above MAX when warm or hot. Do you recall how many quarts you put in at the last ATF change?
The 722.3 is fully mechanical, there are no speed sensors to cause shift problems. That also means, no fault codes for the transmission.
Assuming the shifts are good without any flaring or harsh engagement, I'm still suspicious of a valve body problem. If you had a clutch or band problem I'd expect the problem to be persistent, not intermittent, but it could still be something wonky with one of the bands. I don't know the internals well enough to speculate which band, or how to try and fix it...
The 722.3 is fully mechanical, there are no speed sensors to cause shift problems. That also means, no fault codes for the transmission.
Assuming the shifts are good without any flaring or harsh engagement, I'm still suspicious of a valve body problem. If you had a clutch or band problem I'd expect the problem to be persistent, not intermittent, but it could still be something wonky with one of the bands. I don't know the internals well enough to speculate which band, or how to try and fix it...
I followed the DIY here and MB manual and put about 8.5 quarts after draining TC as well. One thing to point out is that I haven't driven the car in freeway speed after doing the ATF change. I mean of course I initially did the 20-25 mins to check the fluid level when hot. But nothing else after that. This Saturday was 40 mins drive in twisty mountain hwy with lots of up and down hill on a hot day!Hmmm. The dipstick can be very difficult to read, it may take repeated measurements. It's unlikely to be overfilled, but if you confirm it's at MAX when cold, it should go above MAX when warm or hot. Do you recall how many quarts you put in at the last ATF change?
The 722.3 is fully mechanical, there are no speed sensors to cause shift problems. That also means, no fault codes for the transmission.
Assuming the shifts are good without any flaring or harsh engagement, I'm still suspicious of a valve body problem. If you had a clutch or band problem I'd expect the problem to be persistent, not intermittent, but it could still be something wonky with one of the bands. I don't know the internals well enough to speculate which band, or how to try and fix it...
If you removed the pan to change the filter, and added 8.5 qts, it should be fine.
If you only drained the pan + converter (and did not remove the pan)... it may be siiiightly overfilled.
I like the level at the MAX mark with the ATF fully hot.
If you only drained the pan + converter (and did not remove the pan)... it may be siiiightly overfilled.
I like the level at the MAX mark with the ATF fully hot.
I did remove the pan and replaced the filter.
But I just remembered something and looked at my notes and confirmed it!
A few months ago, I added about half a quart of ATF to the transmission!
So back then I noticed a few drops of something that looked like ATF on the ground at my friend's house. I thought it was my car and I got kinda paranoid and checked the fluid and of course it was a little below low mark! So I added about half a quart to it. Now that I think of it, I probably misjudged the level reading!
Here is what I did today. Since I noticed the cold reading showed extra ATF, I removed about half a quart of ATF and took the risk and took the car out for about 30 mins of freeway drive to get a definite level reading.
Car performed beautifully! All in D with no problems! Got home and checked the hot fluid level and it was within max mark!
Looks great! I'd still try to pick up a spare VB, and when you have time, install it to test it out (after cleaning / inspecting for broken springs inside). A large Tupperware-style plastic container works well for storage, as the VB's ooze ATF endlessly.
Thank you!Looks great! I'd still try to pick up a spare VB, and when you have time, install it to test it out (after cleaning / inspecting for broken springs inside). A large Tupperware-style plastic container works well for storage, as the VB's ooze ATF endlessly.
Yes, that is actually my plan. I'll probably pick up the one from my local junkyard and clean, inspect it and have it ready and when time comes its good to go!
That car has been at P n P for 3 weeks now. The interior was already messed with. Engine bay too!
I noticed the antenna was still intact, so I picked it up. I believe if my car still had it's original one, it would have been this model. IIRC MB started using this in 1994. I'm going to open it up and inspect/test it. If all goes well, this will replace the universal hirschmann antenna that the previous owner installed.
I noticed the antenna was still intact, so I picked it up. I believe if my car still had it's original one, it would have been this model. IIRC MB started using this in 1994. I'm going to open it up and inspect/test it. If all goes well, this will replace the universal hirschmann antenna that the previous owner installed.
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Nice! Yes, this is the ball top version!Nice find! The antennas are usually repairable. You can bench test them easily. I believe the one you picked up is the "ball top" style, and the grommets are still available new for those.
According to my research, this is the wire color function:
Red = +12V constant power (from battery)
Brown = Ground (chassis/negative)
Blue = +12V trigger from radio (to extend mast)
Gray = Possibly speed signal or illumination?
Testing:
1. Connect Power and Ground:
Connect Brown wire to Ground
Connect Red wire to +12V constant.
This powers the antenna’s control circuit, putting it in standby mode.
2. Trigger extension:
Apply +12V to the Blue wire.
The antenna mast should fully extend.
3. Trigger Retraction:
Remove +12V from the Blue wire.
The antenna should automatically retract.
Observation:
With blue wire powered: antenna goes up.
With blue wire disconnected: antenna goes down.
Gray wire: not involved in mast movement.
I hope I got this right!
Red = +12V constant power (from battery)
Brown = Ground (chassis/negative)
Blue = +12V trigger from radio (to extend mast)
Gray = Possibly speed signal or illumination?
Testing:
1. Connect Power and Ground:
Connect Brown wire to Ground
Connect Red wire to +12V constant.
This powers the antenna’s control circuit, putting it in standby mode.
2. Trigger extension:
Apply +12V to the Blue wire.
The antenna mast should fully extend.
3. Trigger Retraction:
Remove +12V from the Blue wire.
The antenna should automatically retract.
Observation:
With blue wire powered: antenna goes up.
With blue wire disconnected: antenna goes down.
Gray wire: not involved in mast movement.
I hope I got this right!
Nice! Let's see what he got!
I see a lot of power supplies offered on Amazon, some with really good reviews, but most of them have output noise & ripple, this is the issue with switch-mode supply, so you gotta expect ripple, possibly in the hundreds of millivolts. That can disrupt sensitive ECU tasks like flashing, CAN communication, or OBD boot.
However, Korad KA/KD3005D offers linear output with ultra-low ripple, ideal for sensitive ECUs.
I see a lot of power supplies offered on Amazon, some with really good reviews, but most of them have output noise & ripple, this is the issue with switch-mode supply, so you gotta expect ripple, possibly in the hundreds of millivolts. That can disrupt sensitive ECU tasks like flashing, CAN communication, or OBD boot.
However, Korad KA/KD3005D offers linear output with ultra-low ripple, ideal for sensitive ECUs.
I wonder what happened to my wiper arm. Somehow it looks like it has some over spray on it. Or something eating the paint away? What's strange is that cars paint close to the wiper has no issues.
Closer look:
This was actually in a really good condition! I noticed this a few weeks back when I was washing the car. What could have caused this?
Closer look:
This was actually in a really good condition! I noticed this a few weeks back when I was washing the car. What could have caused this?
I believe it's time to swap in the 2.82 diff! I'm going to replace the side seals and re-sealing the rear cover. Then I have to figure out the speedo correction!
Is this the right part number for the side seals?
020-997-25-47-64
BTW, I haven't done this job (replacing side seals) before. Do I need any special tools?
Is this the right part number for the side seals?
020-997-25-47-64
BTW, I haven't done this job (replacing side seals) before. Do I need any special tools?
Where did you get that part number? 020-997-25-47 is for a later diff.
The early 90's diff for the 034 should be 014-997-72-47 but please double-check that. No special tools required. Use Right Stuff, or the MB black sealant (Loctite 5900), for the rear cover.
Don't touch the pinion seal if it's dry... just leave it alone.
The early 90's diff for the 034 should be 014-997-72-47 but please double-check that. No special tools required. Use Right Stuff, or the MB black sealant (Loctite 5900), for the rear cover.
Don't touch the pinion seal if it's dry... just leave it alone.
Oh I made a mistake copying the part number.
I was searching 014-997-72-47 and on classicparts.mbusa.com I clicked on "Also Purchased" and got to 020-997-25-47. And copied that part number by mistake. What's strange is that website claims that the later part also works for my car!
As far as special tools, I was reading this manual and it says in order to remove the connecting flanges, I'll need a hook tool to remove the circlip and some kinda alignment tool is needed to press the new seal in?
Manuel:
Always, always ignore any fitment information from the online dealerships. These are notoriously inaccurate. Only use the EPC to get part numbers, then plug in the part number. Supercession information from the dealers is usually valid. But the years/models shown for a part number... pretend you don't see that info.I was searching 014-997-72-47 and on classicparts.mbusa.com I clicked on "Also Purchased" and got to 020-997-25-47. And copied that part number by mistake. What's strange is that website claims that the later part also works for my car!
Any hook tool can be used to pull the clips out - doesn't need to be the special MB tool, but if it's cheap, go for it! To press the new seals in, use any flat round thingy that matches the outer diameter and gently press / tap the new seal in place. Just make sure it's 100% flat / parallel. I forget how I did this but I don't have the special tool for the seals.
Yes sir! You're 100% right!Always, always ignore any fitment information from the online dealerships. These are notoriously inaccurate. Only use the EPC to get part numbers, then plug in the part number. Supercession information from the dealers is usually valid. But the years/models shown for a part number... pretend you don't see that info.
Any hook tool can be used to pull the clips out - doesn't need to be the special MB tool, but if it's cheap, go for it! To press the new seals in, use any flat round thingy that matches the outer diameter and gently press / tap the new seal in place. Just make sure it's 100% flat / parallel. I forget how I did this but I don't have the special tool for the seals.
I actually did find the correct part number from EPC first and plugged it in that website, but as I said before by mistake later on I copied the wrong number from there after I clicked on "Also Purchased". Thanks for catching that!
Great! I should have those basic tools to do the job then!
